Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Syegfryed]

No I think he just hates elves in general. With the Horde potently getting Undead Vampire Elves at some point in BfA, who knows.

of course i hate elves in general, with exceptions like lorthemar and rommanth, thats obviously since day one im here, i just like a bit blood elves before they theme is just generic tolkien elves back in the frozen throne campaign

the problem is im not biased about the subject, if i was, i would be the first to support HE playable, to more and more elves get out of the horde

[Aldo Hawk]

no, you are trying to oversimplify the issue, the problem is not just "look"

It is look but also theme, fantasie, lore and aesthetic, goes further to gameplay reasons like imbalance, exodus and others things

High elf is the tolkien and classic fantasie elf, the same cliche, the mage elf, the ranger elf, and this is already occupied by blood elves, in look, theme ad fantasie

Voidelves simple overcome the theme, fantasie, aesthetic and lore problems in one hit, giving then another theme trough the dark/drow elves, given then another fantasie trough the void powers, and different aesthetic from the blood elves and the lore problem since they gave a reason inlore for the change

High elf more bulky will not change nothing, they still are the same elf, with the same everything, but more bulky, with no reason to be. Sorry, try harder

Hey, nice try, you just tried to make as i just care about the looks because i just answered something about that.

So there's nothing about HE being a counterpart of BE, with it's own place in the world, it's own storyline, it's own allies and themes, it's own way to overcome things.

No, you just say it is the ranger and mage fantasy with a tolkien elven touch.

[Syegfryed]

So there's nothing about HE being a counterpart of BE, with it's own place in the world, it's own storyline, it's own allies and themes, it's own way to overcome things.

you are not making sense now

No, you just say it is the ranger and mage fantasy with a tolkien elven touch.

what

[Aldo Hawk]

you are not making sense now


what

I'm not going to care about you...

[protip]

I guess at this point I'm just not understanding what the anti-HE crowd are doing? Reminding us that Ion said "no, not anytime soon" (blizzard "soon" btw)? Okay lol

It's not like that suddenly and magically takes away the desire for people to have them playable in game, it just lets us know. "Well don't hold your breath" and I think most understand that?

People are still free to discuss them, their presence, create fan art for them. Don't understand the people trying to make all this stop?

I don't think the people coming in here to stop the discussion understand what happens when you tell someone no, but fortunately there's no need to really respond to them. As for your curiosity about why people are still speaking against high elves here, it's for the same reason that people are still trying to justify them. I think The-Shan gave one good reason here:

the entire issue honestly boils down to "Where do you draw the faction line?" (In terms of racial uniqueness) Which is clearly something divisive (and subjective!) not just on these forums, but at Blizzard, given the mixed responses we've received in their communications. The fact is that their current philosophy for races is against High Elves, that isn't a 'never', though. Being loud and being vocal, and continuing to discuss it is healthy as long as there is interest in discussing it. It will let peoples' opinions be known and show interest.

Maybe a producer will take notice, maybe they'll bring it up at future meetings. Disagreeing with Blizzard is not wrong, it makes you opinionated. Politely disagreeing, and proposing change is fine, being a noisy ape is nasty. There are noisy, toxic apes on both sides.

I agree with a lot of what you say here, barring what you say about mixed responses, but I'd like to add a couple of things. The reason to keep discussing the issue is certainly because Blizzard might take notice. High Elf fans know that, and we do too. If only one side were to leave the discussion, and Blizzard did take notice of it, their views would not be represented.

In terms of just adding high elves as they are now, it does pretty much boil down to how important people consider the faction line. When people suggest things like making races arbitrarily different, retconning the story, going back in time to grab WCII high elves, or any of the other ideas that have been brought up, there are different problems. If no one speaks against those ideas, Blizzard might get the idea that people just don't care about retconning the story, for example.

Being loud and vocal is fine, to a point. The first point is spreading misinformation, or mischaracterizing people who disagree with you. I have seen a lot of people claim that Blizzard is being spiteful for not doing what they want, and that's bad for the game and the community, so I hope we'll see less of that. The other point is being disruptive, for example derailing unrelated threads or hassling Blizzard employees. Other people have other concerns, and that should be respected.

[Deleted]

Should have posted here before. Here's my theory how everyone could be happy:
"High elves are not happening. Best solution is to have distinct half elf allied race where Blizzard could use other than thalassian model. People can get same feeling from light skinned blonde half elves i believe. Lets be honest we all want skinnier humans with pointy ears anyways. And here's how Blizzard could implement them:
Giramar and Galadin are the key (they are Vereesas and Rhonins children, halfbreeds). Lets imagine that Silver covenant wants to serve Alliance and Vereesa with her twins (dunno how old they are but I believe they aged aswell as Anduin and are battle ready) goes to some place to gather Azerite. When they go to the place they meet non other than blood elves with Rommath and Reagent Lord. Vereesa in her style strikes first but is outnumbered and Giramar (he's older and more stoic than his brother I imagine him as ranger-like) with Galadin (mage) gets captured. As her final act she rallies Silver covenant to rescue them but gets killed in the process. However twins escape but before their eyes most of Silver covenant gets killed. They retreat and start to gather all of Azeroths halfbreeds and remaining high elves. Together they want to avenge their mother and forge a new future for their not pure halfbreed (lets say blood elves dont like halfbreeds or something to spice things up). But this is not the end, remaining (very small number) high elves can act as class trainers for half elves, Arator can join in or smt, make some new heroes development, let the old heroes get some rest. Imagine that twins have very different characters. Thats how you can give purpose for half elves to hate horde, get their identity and kill off remaining high elves.
From Hordes POV lets say Rommath has an idea to infuse Sunwell with Azerite so it could become uncorruptable or smt, well I just like to see him do more in game. Blood elves goes to place, meets Silver covenant, gets attacked, kicks ass, profit. But to spice things up lets say undead sent by Desolate Council (not Sylvanas, let them do smt and give her a rest) goes to the same place, recovers high elves bodies and makes them into Dark Rangers squad with brainwashed Vereesa. She could be fierce Alliance killer, crazy and with intention to make more dark rangers. That way we could have some family drama, dark motives and new character developments."

[RangerDaz]

I am sorry logic doesn't seem to make sense to you.

Logic isnt important to some people here when it can favor the thing they are debating against (aka playable races they dont want to come live)

Im sorry everyone, but i really feel this way.

[Aeula]

Is there something wrong with disagreeing with Blizzard?

Disagree all you want but it’s not going to get you anywhere. You’d be better served asking Blizzard for something else.

What we had was 10 years without the allied race system who justifies such thing as HE, get over it.

It doesn’t justify High Elves and it doesn’t change the fact that Blizzard doesn’t want them to become playable.

[ercarp]

It doesn’t justify High Elves and it doesn’t change the fact that Blizzard doesn’t want them to become playable.

Ion* doesn't want them playable.

[Aeula]

Ion* doesn't want them playable.

The game director of WoW. As in the guy at the top of the food chain as far as WoW is concerned. So...

[Darththeo]

The game director of WoW. As in the guy at the top of the food chain as far as WoW is concerned. So...

At this time, it doesn't mean that much overall ... even in the expansion. For all we know, a year from now they decide to make a quick allied race to add for each faction as they haven't worked on one significantly enough.

We can only state that High Elves are not coming at this time and nothing else.

[protip]

Does anyone think that Ion got to be game director by not listening to the dev team? Because I feel like that's what some people are implying here...

[RangerDaz]

I think some people forget how big corporations work.

It's not just one person that decides everything, it is usually a team or many different teams.
Things change all the time. Corporations need to constantly adapt or they die.

Just because Ion stated that High Elves aren't coming live now, doesn't mean they won't in the future. Even he admitted this.
Blizzard probably has already planned everything for BfA, and probably for the story they want to tell, introducing High Elves in that story structure might not feel right for them at this moment. It is an understandable argument.

Ion's response only made clear that his personal opinion is against high elves in the alliance. Everyone has the right to have a personal opinion about it, even him. however as he is one of the spokesmen of Blizzard, he should be more neutral in these polarizing issues, because his personal ideas might be associated with Blizzard's ideas. Spokesmen of companies need to be careful on what they say so their personal feelings don't get mixed with the corporation's estrategy.

[protip]

I think some people forget how big corporations work.

It's not just one person that decides everything, it is usually a team or many different teams.
Things change all the time. Corporations need to constantly adapt or they die.

Yes, absolutely. Choosing the right ways to change is what separates success from failure.

Just because Ion stated that High Elves aren't coming live now, doesn't mean they won't in the future. Even he admitted this.
Blizzard probably has already planned everything for BfA, and probably for the story they want to tell, introducing High Elves in that story structure might not feel right for them at this moment. It is an understandable argument.

Not fitting the story for BfA is one idea, but the reasons he gave for not adding them are independent of story developments. Maybe that will change, but your suggestion here is really just conjecture that contradicts his words.

Ion's response only made clear that his personal opinion is against high elves in the alliance. Everyone has the right to have a personal opinion about it, even him. however as he is one of the spokesmen of Blizzard, he should be more neutral in these polarizing issues, because his personal ideas might be associated with Blizzard's ideas. Spokesmen of companies need to be careful on what they say so their personal feelings don't get mixed with the corporation's estrategy.

I don't agree with your interpretation of this. You're right that he was acting as a spokesman for Blizzard, but that means that his words are representative of the company he was speaking for. He didn't come out and apologize afterwards, no one from Blizzard came out to undercut his points, and his words don't contradict the actions of Blizzard as a company up to this point. I see no reason to doubt that he was expressing the prevailing opinion of the development team as a whole.

[Tartys]

Everything is an allied race 2018

This Allied Races thing has gotten out of hand...

[Darththeo]

This Allied Races thing has gotten out of hand...

Pretty much what I think that they intended.

[Obelisk Kai]

Does anyone think that Ion got to be game director by not listening to the dev team? Because I feel like that's what some people are implying here...

The pro High Elf community has leapt to the usual response of assuming Ion is the sole person against High Elves and all they have to do is wait for him to move on and that the next game director will be more amenable to their demands.

It's scapegoating. And it's daft. Ion didn't rule out High Elves by himself. Nor did he create Void Elves single handedly. The position he articulated last week likely represents the consensus within Blizzard on this topic.

[RangerDaz]

Yes, absolutely. Choosing the right ways to change is what separates success from failure.



Not fitting the story for BfA is one idea, but the reasons he gave for not adding them are independent of story developments. Maybe that will change, but your suggestion here is really just conjecture that contradicts his words.



I don't agree with your interpretation of this. You're right that he was acting as a spokesman for Blizzard, but that means that his words are representative of the company he was speaking for. He didn't come out and apologize afterwards, no one from Blizzard came out to undercut his points, and his words don't contradict the actions of Blizzard as a company up to this point. I see no reason to doubt that he was expressing the prevailing opinion of the development team as a whole.

Yes, i agree with you in many things you say, but some not so much.

First, Blizzard doesn't have a tradition when one of the spokesmen says something, someone else goes public and undermines his statements. This never happened before (i think?) and im sure blizzard wouldn't do it as well with Ion's comments. If i was a director of Blizzard and in favor of High Elves, i would still suport my collegue and be quiet until another opportunity in the future appears to speak about it without undermining him. So it is natural no one at Blizzard hasn't gone against what he said with an official statement (at least for now).

Second Ion didn't even care for all the arguments that have been discussed in the last months from both sides and dismissed them with the same arguments he said months ago, also arguments than even go against what World of Warcraft has ingame (for example the relevance of the high elves in freeing suramar). As this is a very polarizing issue with big groups on both sides, a spokesman of a company should try to calm down everyone with a diplomatic way to not lose costumers. He did the opposite, and by doing the way he did, it clearly showed his own preference, as he didn't even hide it. He said in a way that was not diplomatic at all which even ignited a bigger flame fest between both sides. That is why i believe he made a mistake as a spokesman of the company.

[dope_danny]

i'm genuinely surprised by the back and forth when it seems pretty obvious. The horde is overwhelmingly made up of blood elf players. Give them the alliance option and every one that takes it will diminish horde numbers and in doing so destabilise multiple servers for their whole warplots/island expedition faction warfare deal.

Its kind of sad but blood elves are probably the only thing padding up multiple horde side on servers as it is. Give them the option to leave when the horde are looking their most nazi regime since the garrosh days and we all know a not significant number will take it to be the 'good guys'.

[Ithekro]

Question, because I don't follow all that much that happens at Blizzcon over the years. When hasn't Blizzard been more supportive in public for the Horde? When are they supportive of the Alliance visually in public? I ask because most memorable moments and general feedback from Blizzard seems to be Horde related. Probably because that is more brand-able and easier to recognize than the Alliance. The last time I remember anything like that was the celebrity commercials from years ago. When we got the Night Elf Mohawk grenades for a bit.