Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Syegfryed]

The tolkien elf issue is a made one, the problem is HE being the same as BE with different colors, the image i linked shows a HE that can be differentiated from a BE with just one look at it, and if you didn't accept my argument of modify the HE to look different, just look at Nightborne, they are different from what we saw before being playable, and why was that? because they modify races before making them playable.

You are just rolling the roll while calling people names without backup...

no, you are trying to oversimplify the issue, the problem is not just "look"

It is look but also theme, fantasie, lore and aesthetic, goes further to gameplay reasons like imbalance, exodus and others things

High elf is the tolkien and classic fantasie elf, the same cliche, the mage elf, the ranger elf, and this is already occupied by blood elves, in look, theme ad fantasie

Voidelves simple overcome the theme, fantasie, aesthetic and lore problems in one hit, giving then another theme trough the dark/drow elves, given then another fantasie trough the void powers, and different aesthetic from the blood elves and the lore problem since they gave a reason inlore for the change

High elf more bulky will not change nothing, they still are the same elf, with the same everything, but more bulky, with no reason to be. Sorry, try harder

[Aldo Hawk]

You're point is already worthless if you have to justiy change for the sake of change just to make something different enough to be playable when outside of the ideas, they are not different. "Blood elves are high elves" is the most boiled down argument because it is the base of the issue, they are not unique, they are not special, they are outcasts of an playable race and unlike void elves, nothing separates them.



The only playable race you could say they outnumbered was void elves, and even then, they are not unified, nor do they have and universal culture, outside of blood elven culture which is Horde.



Then you like many others are either willfully ignoring the issue or still never understood it. The devs don't give a shit if you have no problem with it, they do. They do not want the Horde to mirror the Alliance and Vice Versa, you're not going to get the blood elf model with blue eyes, nor will it be changed for you when there is no reason for it to, because try as you might, none of the suggested changes make sense and deliberately skip over how similar they are, and because of that they will not be playable.



That's called understanding a two faction game and being mature enough to realize that you don't get everything you want, nor does every single thing in the game need to be offered to one faction. You want to play a pale elf? Play Horde, simple as that.




Yet again the point flies clear over your head, High elves are the exact same race, they look the exact same, no amount of headcanon or jumbled logic justifies them being different in appearance, and Blizzard has made it quite clear they don't want to blend factions.

Ask for something realistic, like half elves if you want a similar model, but to try so hard to beat around the bush is ridiculous. High elves are not some owed gift, high elves are not some different looking people than blood elves, and the pale, majestic blonde haired yada yada isn't going to be shared.

My point is not worthless because playable characters suffer changes everytime when they are introduced, so my point is just implicit.

Are you saying that HE are less pupolated in Azeroth than horde Goblins? or Mulgore Tauren? or Exodar Draenei? k

And i do not ignore the issues, i'm litterally looking at them and thinking how everything can fit well without distort the whole concept so much, a two faction game is not necesarily two faction with different races, and i understand that, i'm not asking for having the same races in the two factions, that simply destroys the concept of the two factions on wow, but you can't simply say to me that adding HE are going to destroy that, that's delusional, is not copying the entire block into the another, is adding more lore relatable things into the player choices, is simple as that.

[Traveler Voltin]

Everything is an allied race 2018

[Syegfryed]

No I think he just hates elves in general. With the Horde potently getting Undead Vampire Elves at some point in BfA, who knows.

of course i hate elves in general, with exceptions like lorthemar and rommanth, thats obviously since day one im here, i just like a bit blood elves before they theme is just generic tolkien elves back in the frozen throne campaign

the problem is im not biased about the subject, if i was, i would be the first to support HE playable, to more and more elves get out of the horde

[Aldo Hawk]

no, you are trying to oversimplify the issue, the problem is not just "look"

It is look but also theme, fantasie, lore and aesthetic, goes further to gameplay reasons like imbalance, exodus and others things

High elf is the tolkien and classic fantasie elf, the same cliche, the mage elf, the ranger elf, and this is already occupied by blood elves, in look, theme ad fantasie

Voidelves simple overcome the theme, fantasie, aesthetic and lore problems in one hit, giving then another theme trough the dark/drow elves, given then another fantasie trough the void powers, and different aesthetic from the blood elves and the lore problem since they gave a reason inlore for the change

High elf more bulky will not change nothing, they still are the same elf, with the same everything, but more bulky, with no reason to be. Sorry, try harder

Hey, nice try, you just tried to make as i just care about the looks because i just answered something about that.

So there's nothing about HE being a counterpart of BE, with it's own place in the world, it's own storyline, it's own allies and themes, it's own way to overcome things.

No, you just say it is the ranger and mage fantasy with a tolkien elven touch.

[Syegfryed]

So there's nothing about HE being a counterpart of BE, with it's own place in the world, it's own storyline, it's own allies and themes, it's own way to overcome things.

you are not making sense now

No, you just say it is the ranger and mage fantasy with a tolkien elven touch.

what

[Aldo Hawk]

you are not making sense now


what

I'm not going to care about you...

[protip]

I guess at this point I'm just not understanding what the anti-HE crowd are doing? Reminding us that Ion said "no, not anytime soon" (blizzard "soon" btw)? Okay lol

It's not like that suddenly and magically takes away the desire for people to have them playable in game, it just lets us know. "Well don't hold your breath" and I think most understand that?

People are still free to discuss them, their presence, create fan art for them. Don't understand the people trying to make all this stop?

I don't think the people coming in here to stop the discussion understand what happens when you tell someone no, but fortunately there's no need to really respond to them. As for your curiosity about why people are still speaking against high elves here, it's for the same reason that people are still trying to justify them. I think The-Shan gave one good reason here:

the entire issue honestly boils down to "Where do you draw the faction line?" (In terms of racial uniqueness) Which is clearly something divisive (and subjective!) not just on these forums, but at Blizzard, given the mixed responses we've received in their communications. The fact is that their current philosophy for races is against High Elves, that isn't a 'never', though. Being loud and being vocal, and continuing to discuss it is healthy as long as there is interest in discussing it. It will let peoples' opinions be known and show interest.

Maybe a producer will take notice, maybe they'll bring it up at future meetings. Disagreeing with Blizzard is not wrong, it makes you opinionated. Politely disagreeing, and proposing change is fine, being a noisy ape is nasty. There are noisy, toxic apes on both sides.

I agree with a lot of what you say here, barring what you say about mixed responses, but I'd like to add a couple of things. The reason to keep discussing the issue is certainly because Blizzard might take notice. High Elf fans know that, and we do too. If only one side were to leave the discussion, and Blizzard did take notice of it, their views would not be represented.

In terms of just adding high elves as they are now, it does pretty much boil down to how important people consider the faction line. When people suggest things like making races arbitrarily different, retconning the story, going back in time to grab WCII high elves, or any of the other ideas that have been brought up, there are different problems. If no one speaks against those ideas, Blizzard might get the idea that people just don't care about retconning the story, for example.

Being loud and vocal is fine, to a point. The first point is spreading misinformation, or mischaracterizing people who disagree with you. I have seen a lot of people claim that Blizzard is being spiteful for not doing what they want, and that's bad for the game and the community, so I hope we'll see less of that. The other point is being disruptive, for example derailing unrelated threads or hassling Blizzard employees. Other people have other concerns, and that should be respected.

[Deleted]

Should have posted here before. Here's my theory how everyone could be happy:
"High elves are not happening. Best solution is to have distinct half elf allied race where Blizzard could use other than thalassian model. People can get same feeling from light skinned blonde half elves i believe. Lets be honest we all want skinnier humans with pointy ears anyways. And here's how Blizzard could implement them:
Giramar and Galadin are the key (they are Vereesas and Rhonins children, halfbreeds). Lets imagine that Silver covenant wants to serve Alliance and Vereesa with her twins (dunno how old they are but I believe they aged aswell as Anduin and are battle ready) goes to some place to gather Azerite. When they go to the place they meet non other than blood elves with Rommath and Reagent Lord. Vereesa in her style strikes first but is outnumbered and Giramar (he's older and more stoic than his brother I imagine him as ranger-like) with Galadin (mage) gets captured. As her final act she rallies Silver covenant to rescue them but gets killed in the process. However twins escape but before their eyes most of Silver covenant gets killed. They retreat and start to gather all of Azeroths halfbreeds and remaining high elves. Together they want to avenge their mother and forge a new future for their not pure halfbreed (lets say blood elves dont like halfbreeds or something to spice things up). But this is not the end, remaining (very small number) high elves can act as class trainers for half elves, Arator can join in or smt, make some new heroes development, let the old heroes get some rest. Imagine that twins have very different characters. Thats how you can give purpose for half elves to hate horde, get their identity and kill off remaining high elves.
From Hordes POV lets say Rommath has an idea to infuse Sunwell with Azerite so it could become uncorruptable or smt, well I just like to see him do more in game. Blood elves goes to place, meets Silver covenant, gets attacked, kicks ass, profit. But to spice things up lets say undead sent by Desolate Council (not Sylvanas, let them do smt and give her a rest) goes to the same place, recovers high elves bodies and makes them into Dark Rangers squad with brainwashed Vereesa. She could be fierce Alliance killer, crazy and with intention to make more dark rangers. That way we could have some family drama, dark motives and new character developments."

[RangerDaz]

I am sorry logic doesn't seem to make sense to you.

Logic isnt important to some people here when it can favor the thing they are debating against (aka playable races they dont want to come live)

Im sorry everyone, but i really feel this way.

[Aeula]

Is there something wrong with disagreeing with Blizzard?

Disagree all you want but it’s not going to get you anywhere. You’d be better served asking Blizzard for something else.

What we had was 10 years without the allied race system who justifies such thing as HE, get over it.

It doesn’t justify High Elves and it doesn’t change the fact that Blizzard doesn’t want them to become playable.

[ercarp]

It doesn’t justify High Elves and it doesn’t change the fact that Blizzard doesn’t want them to become playable.

Ion* doesn't want them playable.

[Aeula]

Ion* doesn't want them playable.

The game director of WoW. As in the guy at the top of the food chain as far as WoW is concerned. So...

[Darththeo]

The game director of WoW. As in the guy at the top of the food chain as far as WoW is concerned. So...

At this time, it doesn't mean that much overall ... even in the expansion. For all we know, a year from now they decide to make a quick allied race to add for each faction as they haven't worked on one significantly enough.

We can only state that High Elves are not coming at this time and nothing else.

[protip]

Does anyone think that Ion got to be game director by not listening to the dev team? Because I feel like that's what some people are implying here...

[RangerDaz]

I think some people forget how big corporations work.

It's not just one person that decides everything, it is usually a team or many different teams.
Things change all the time. Corporations need to constantly adapt or they die.

Just because Ion stated that High Elves aren't coming live now, doesn't mean they won't in the future. Even he admitted this.
Blizzard probably has already planned everything for BfA, and probably for the story they want to tell, introducing High Elves in that story structure might not feel right for them at this moment. It is an understandable argument.

Ion's response only made clear that his personal opinion is against high elves in the alliance. Everyone has the right to have a personal opinion about it, even him. however as he is one of the spokesmen of Blizzard, he should be more neutral in these polarizing issues, because his personal ideas might be associated with Blizzard's ideas. Spokesmen of companies need to be careful on what they say so their personal feelings don't get mixed with the corporation's estrategy.

[protip]

I think some people forget how big corporations work.

It's not just one person that decides everything, it is usually a team or many different teams.
Things change all the time. Corporations need to constantly adapt or they die.

Yes, absolutely. Choosing the right ways to change is what separates success from failure.

Just because Ion stated that High Elves aren't coming live now, doesn't mean they won't in the future. Even he admitted this.
Blizzard probably has already planned everything for BfA, and probably for the story they want to tell, introducing High Elves in that story structure might not feel right for them at this moment. It is an understandable argument.

Not fitting the story for BfA is one idea, but the reasons he gave for not adding them are independent of story developments. Maybe that will change, but your suggestion here is really just conjecture that contradicts his words.

Ion's response only made clear that his personal opinion is against high elves in the alliance. Everyone has the right to have a personal opinion about it, even him. however as he is one of the spokesmen of Blizzard, he should be more neutral in these polarizing issues, because his personal ideas might be associated with Blizzard's ideas. Spokesmen of companies need to be careful on what they say so their personal feelings don't get mixed with the corporation's estrategy.

I don't agree with your interpretation of this. You're right that he was acting as a spokesman for Blizzard, but that means that his words are representative of the company he was speaking for. He didn't come out and apologize afterwards, no one from Blizzard came out to undercut his points, and his words don't contradict the actions of Blizzard as a company up to this point. I see no reason to doubt that he was expressing the prevailing opinion of the development team as a whole.

[Tartys]

Everything is an allied race 2018

This Allied Races thing has gotten out of hand...

[Darththeo]

This Allied Races thing has gotten out of hand...

Pretty much what I think that they intended.

[Obelisk Kai]

Does anyone think that Ion got to be game director by not listening to the dev team? Because I feel like that's what some people are implying here...

The pro High Elf community has leapt to the usual response of assuming Ion is the sole person against High Elves and all they have to do is wait for him to move on and that the next game director will be more amenable to their demands.

It's scapegoating. And it's daft. Ion didn't rule out High Elves by himself. Nor did he create Void Elves single handedly. The position he articulated last week likely represents the consensus within Blizzard on this topic.