1. #4761
    You High Elfers aren't looking at this from a marketing stand point. If alliance gets High Elves then the Horde must get a counter part. The alliance would essentially get a copy paste of a Horde race while the Horde gets a new skin of an existing race??? Not to mention the fact that you already got Thalasian elves with Velves.

    Don't tell me some BS reason that Helves would be different than belves because they're more wild, don't have access to the sunwell or w/e. Tattoos also don't count as they're not a physiological difference. Kul'Tirans being humans is also not en excuse as Kul'Tirans are physically different from regular humans due to their environment and life style.

    So I ask you again, how could you possible justify snubbing the alliance with nothing original while the horde at least gets a new skin for an Allied race.

    If Kael'thas never named changed his race then this whole debate would have no traction.
    Last edited by Varx; 2018-05-02 at 11:51 PM.

  2. #4762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    You High Elfers aren't looking at this from a marketing stand point. If alliance gets High Elves then the Horde must get a counter part. The alliance would essentially get a copy paste of a Horde race while the Horde gets a new skin of an existing race???

    Don't tell me some BS reason that Helves would be different than belves because their more wild, don't have access to the sunwell or w/e. Tattoos also don't count as they're not a physiological difference. Kul'Tirans being humans is also not en excuse as Kul'Tirans are physically different from regular humans due to their environment and life style.

    So I ask you again, how could you possible justify snubbing the alliance with nothing original while the horde at least gets a new skin for an Allied race.
    A similar argument could be brought up against your point.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  3. #4763
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Because your assumption of what I am arguing, you can't follow the clear logic. Actually read and respond to what is said not what you expect is said.

    I am better than you at it and that's really all that matters. Except a game that depends on a player base doesn't do well by alienating part of that base and belittling their feelings. It is pointing out that you are oversimplifying the situation.
    You're arguing with me and my opinion that the Alliance shouldn't get High Elves, nothing more. That's how this started. You started using words like "bullshit" and "logic" like a rapid fire cannon, it's backfired multiple times. You've done nothing but move goalposts since you apparently are running low on juice. Now, you're basically derailing the thread because you have a personal vendetta against me and my opinion.

    You don't really do anything well, honestly. Please provide an example where you've done something well, because I've yet to see it. This debate has gone of for ten years. It deserves an end, honestly. I can over simplify this stupid subject if I'd like. It's not a complicated situation to begin with. They want something Blizzard has repeatedly told them they can't have. I would ask you to enlighten me on the circuitous nature of this issue, but I'm really not interested in your lies and goal-posting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    That doesn't make it "fair." You are confusing fact with fair. Facts don't need to be fair. Just because something is "Factual" doesn't make it fair. You seem not to actually address any argument pose to you but rather just put down those that argue against you asserting YOUR superiority in your stance. So again, how is it "fair" to the Alliance to have given Blood Elves to the Horde? Saying "that's how it was written" doesn't answer the question asked. It is like you asking "How is it fair I don't have a toy?" and I answer "Because I gave it to someone else." It doesn't actually answer the question. I could ask you "How is it unfair to the Horde to give Alliance High Elves?" and you answer because "Horde had Blood elves first" (essentially that's the answer or Horde had them first) ... that doesn't make it unfair.

    The reason I stated faction identity doesn't exist is the only "evidence" of the existence is Blizzard claim it does. When I play the game, I don't feel different playing Alliance or Horde. Just because they "look" different doesn't make them actually different.
    You're really losing it here, I can tell. Do you think I wrote the lore for the game or something? I DGAF about how it's fair or unfair that Blizzard wrote the Blood Elves joining the Horde from a lore perspective. That was their decision, and newsflash, I wasn't at that table when that decision was made. What are you on about? Facts don't need to be fair? No shit, Sherlock. Neither do playable races. My point entirely. Jesus, you're starting to annoy me more than anything with your psuedo "I don't care" bullshit yet you're here goalposting with the best of these Pro-High Elfers.

    Hm, well, for about the fourth time, just because you don't perceive faction identity doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You seem to confuse your perspective with everyone else's. Faction identity exists very much to me. I'm sorry you lack the ability. I guess I'm just better at seeing how people can take pride in something better than you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    I honestly don't. I just don't like people I call "peacocks" ... all flash, no substance in their arguments.
    Congratulations, then, no-cock. You've had no flash, and even less substance. Your entire first argument hinged on the word "bullshit". Let me tell ya', that's some real substance there, buddy. I can provide quotes if you'd like to refresh your memory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    So you get to do it and I have to accept it and not comment, but you feel you are in a position to comment on mine? I didn't start putting you down until you shown no desire but to put me down. You started it, I treating you as you have treated me. I have no vendetta against you, but I will be damned if I let your ignorance go unchallenged.

    Notice how I reply to you, I actually address what you stated ... you don't care to because in your mind you "won" and don't actually care for "debate." You don't care to actually have the argument because no argument will convince you. Even in this topic, I admitted on the Void Elf Tentacles I see how people call them that, I just don't seem them as tentacles ... I admit that I understand the opposing side, you haven't done that.

    I am sorry, the only "vendetta" here is you against people who want Helves and I am not letting you have free range against them. Also, given that I have had people tell me your behavior is similar in other topics ... I don't think the problem is with me.
    I don't care for a debate because there is nothing to debate. We won. Plain and simple. Sorry your personal vendetta has blinded you and you can't see the plain truth.

    And please, show me where I said you can't comment about my behavior. I said "feel free to share your opinion or ignore me," but it is a fact you are not in a position to tell me what I'm saying is acceptable or not within these digital walls. Last I checked, you're not a Forum Moderator or my biological parent. So you're only expressing your disapproval of what I'm saying, nothing more. And personally, I don't give two shits what some random forum warrior thinks is acceptable or not. By forum standards, what I'm saying is quite acceptable, it seems.

    People talk about me outside of this thread to you? I feel honored.

    Nobody talks to me about you. Yikes. I guess you're just boring like that, and full of hot air.

    I'm done derailing this wonderful, entertaining thread. It's about time I digress anyway. We've won, and there's nothing left to discuss here.

  4. #4764
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    A similar argument could be brought up against your point.
    I would love to see a rebuttal against that so please elaborate.

  5. #4765
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkrypt View Post
    You're arguing with me and my opinion that the Alliance shouldn't get High Elves, nothing more. That's how this started. You started using words like "bullshit" and "logic" like a rapid fire cannon, it's backfired multiple times. You've done nothing but move goalposts since you apparently are running low on juice. Now, you're basically derailing the thread because you have a personal vendetta against me and my opinion.
    Actually, it was you who used logic first. And yeah, because I was point out Blizzard's ... not yours ... reasons as bullshit because of their poor logic. They are bullshit. Your only counter was that you agreed with them ... Listen, there are times I agree with bullshit, it doesn't make it less bullshit.

    You don't really do anything well, honestly. Please provide an example where you've done something well, because I've yet to see it. This debate has gone of for ten years. It deserves an end, honestly. I can over simplify this stupid subject if I'd like. It's not a complicated situation to begin with. They want something Blizzard has repeatedly told them they can't have. I would ask you to enlighten me on the circuitous nature of this issue, but I'm really not interested in your lies and goal-posting.
    Go back and actually you know read what I typed. You literally spent your first few posts accusing me of being Pro-Helfer when I am not.

    You're really losing it here, I can tell. Do you think I wrote the lore for the game or something? I DGAF about how it's fair or unfair that Blizzard wrote the Blood Elves joining the Horde from a lore perspective. That was their decision, and newsflash, I wasn't at that table when that decision was made. What are you on about? Facts don't need to be fair? No shit, Sherlock. Neither do playable races. My point entirely. Jesus, you're starting to annoy me more than anything with your psuedo "I don't care" bullshit yet you're here goalposting with the best of these Pro-High Elfers.
    Word Salad here ... I am not goalposting, I am asking you to answer the question asked not the question you want to answer. This is my point, you cannot actually address the argument and now you have the audacity to accuse me of "goalposting" ... you asked how is it fair that Alliance gets High Elves to Horde ... my counter is "why does that matter? They haven't been "fair" in the past." It isn't goalposting.

    Hm, well, for about the fourth time, just because you don't perceive faction identity doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You seem to confuse your perspective with everyone else's. Faction identity exists very much to me. I'm sorry you lack the ability. I guess I'm just better at seeing how people can take pride in something better than you do.
    Or maybe you perceive something that isn't real. It's a figment of your imagination and not actually reality. And just because you take pride in something doesn't mean that something has the trait you assign. You are claiming it exists, I am claiming I don't see it therefor I don't see how it exists, to me it doesn't. I listed the reason why I see it as not existing and your BEST counter was "Doesn't count." And rather than prove it does exist, you post things well identity is "This faction has this race" ... that's literally just a coat of paint on it, that's not an identity.

    Congratulations, then, no-cock. You've had no flash, and even less substance. Your entire first argument hinged on the word "bullshit". Let me tell ya', that's some real substance there, buddy. I can provide quotes if you'd like to refresh your memory.
    It's more substance than you have had this entire topic.

    I don't care for a debate because there is nothing to debate. We won. Plain and simple. Sorry your personal vendetta has blinded you and you can't see the plain truth.
    Then why do you keep posting?

    And please, show me where I said you can't comment about my behavior. I said "feel free to share your opinion or ignore me," but it is a fact you are not in a position to tell me what I'm saying is acceptable or not within these digital walls. Last I checked, you're not a Forum Moderator or my biological parent. So you're only expressing your disapproval of what I'm saying, nothing more. And personally, I don't give two shits what some random forum warrior thinks is acceptable or not. By forum standards, what I'm saying is quite acceptable, it seems.
    "You're in no place to judge my behavior." You told me not to judge, all I did was comment that you aren't better than those you are complaining about. You basically have put down those arguing against you ... it's pretty much fact given these very posts to me and others in this topic.

    People talk about me outside of this thread to you? I feel honored.
    Actually, in this thread. They quoted a reply to me.

    Nobody talks to me about you. Yikes. I guess you're just boring like that, and full of hot air.
    Or maybe, unlike you, I am actually addressing what's posed to me and not strutting around like I won a subjective debate.

    I'm done derailing this wonderful, entertaining thread. It's about time I digress anyway. We've won, and there's nothing left to discuss here.
    You really haven't won anything. Not this topic, not this debate ... not anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    I would love to see a rebuttal against that so please elaborate.
    Honestly, it isn't worth it to go into that much effort. I am pointing out that the argument of "marketing" could be used both ways. I could argue think of how much it benefits a company to see they listen to their fans and are willing to work with them to give them something. Marketing isn't a good argument because you can market pretty much anything if you do it right.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2018-05-03 at 01:08 AM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  6. #4766
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post

    If Kael'thas never named changed his race then this whole debate would have no traction.
    That's not it. The fact that both sides currently have these elves is the issue. Both sides.

  7. #4767
    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    That's not it. The fact that both sides currently have these elves is the issue. Both sides.
    Which is fine. The Alliance player base just needs to be mature enough to accept that their version will remain as NPC's since the playable version belongs to the Horde, simple as that. You can't expect to give High Elves while the horde gets a fresh skin. It's lazy, unoriginal, and a middle finger to the Alliance as a whole since not all of them have aching Lord of The Rings fantasies they need to fulfill.

    We already have Ally's bitching about Mag'hars essentially being multiple Allied raced rolled into one. Imagine the rage if their brand new Allied race is just a copy and paste Belf with blue eyes while the horde gets Gilgoblins, ogres, undead elves, etc, etc.

  8. #4768
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Which is fine. The Alliance player base just needs to be mature enough to accept that their version will remain as NPC's since the playable version belongs to the Horde, simple as that. You can't expect to give High Elves while the horde gets a fresh skin. It's lazy, unoriginal, and a middle finger to the Alliance as a whole since not all of them have aching Lord of The Rings fantasies they need to fulfill.

    We already have Ally's bitching about Mag'hars essentially being multiple Allied raced rolled into one. Imagine the rage if their brand new Allied race is just a copy and paste Belf with blue eyes while the horde gets Gilgoblins, ogres, undead elves, etc, etc.
    Outside of the immature dig at the players, even Ion hasn't ruled out High Elves someday being playable. They are just not playable in their current plans.

    As for the rest, that's just speculation. For all you know Blizzard gives the Horde a lazy copy pasted alliance race like Alterac Humans if they were to given High Elves to the Alliance. Hell, they could even give Horde Undead High Elves basically giving Horde a copy paste of their own race.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  9. #4769
    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    The elf on the ground next to Sylvanas at the burning of Teldrassil looks like a Night Elf and is suggested to be the Nigh Elf character in the Night Elf focused short story that comes with BfA's collector's edition. (I forget the character's name at present, she's the one questioning the Forsaken rogue who's been going around killing Sentinel patrols).
    Delaryn is the name I think and yes, she looks similar to the night elf we see kneeling with a burning Teldrassil in the background.

  10. #4770
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Outside of the immature dig at the players, even Ion hasn't ruled out High Elves someday being playable. They are just not playable in their current plans.

    As for the rest, that's just speculation. For all you know Blizzard gives the Horde a lazy copy pasted alliance race like Alterac Humans if they were to given High Elves to the Alliance. Hell, they could even give Horde Undead High Elves basically giving Horde a copy paste of their own race.
    A reskin is not a copy and paste. "Alterac humans" is a lame attempt to justify High elves, but void elves are bad cus their an ass pull? Ion specifically said if you wanna play a Thalasian Elf then the Horde is waiting for, stop trying to twist his words to find hope.

    This is the only way Helves will become a reality.

    Silvermoon is updated in the real world. There is a civil war and new Thalasian elves have an updated starting experience and choose allegiance at the climax, similar to Pandaren. Horde get San'lyan as Void elf Mirror while alliance gets a reskin Horde race to mirror Nightborne, Gilgoblins maybe?

    To compensate for Belvs becoming neutral the Horde gets a brand new race, Ogres.

  11. #4771
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    A reskin is not a copy and paste. "Alterac humans" is a lame attempt to justify High elves, but void elves are bad cus their an ass pull? Ion specifically said if you wanna play a Thalasian Elf then the Horde is waiting for, stop trying to twist his words to find hope.

    This is the only way Helves will become a reality.

    Silvermoon is updated in the real world. There is a civil war and new Thalasian elves have an updated starting experience and choose allegiance at the climax, similar to Pandaren. Horde get San'lyan as Void elf Mirror while alliance gets a reskin Horde race to mirror Nightborne, Gilgoblins maybe?

    To compensate for Belvs becoming neutral the Horde gets a brand new race, Ogres.
    It's not twisting his words when I am basically using what he stated. He very clearly didn't rule it out more than the present. Should I accuse you of twisting his words because you are making him say it is 100% definite? No, that's not an argument. He specified that blurring faction lines isn't something they want to do in BoA ... not not something that will never happen. It's not twisting words to use everything that is said ... sorry to burst your bubble on that.

    And yes, that's a way not the only way.

    ---

    What was said: No high elves for the forseeable future.

    What Anti-Helfers heard: No high elves ever!
    What Pro-Helfers heard: High elves are possible!

    Neither of those interpretations are true ... they just aren't.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2018-05-03 at 01:59 AM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  12. #4772
    Herald of the Titans ercarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traycor View Post
    Love the flowing look of your Runemancer. The draping outfit is amazing, and the highlights look awesome! This has a semi-Greek look that I'm digging. Very different from Blood Elves.

    I was also mulling the idea of a Runemaster NPC class as being covered in Rune stones. This would be great for High Elf NPC guards and heritage armor. As far as lore goes, you could say that High Elf mages are Runemasters, and the signature class for High Elves could become the Monk (as Runemasters).

    Thank you! It would be interesting if some of their culture was centered around the use of runic magic.

  13. #4773
    I know that I would make a few faction transfers and race changes if Alliance High Elves came out, that and I'd create a new one in addition to that to acquire the heritage armor as well. So, if Blizzard ever did it, that would be roughly 100-120$ out of me, plus more of a reason to remain subbed.

  14. #4774
    Herald of the Titans ercarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torrasque View Post
    I know that I would make a few faction transfers and race changes if Alliance High Elves came out, that and I'd create a new one in addition to that to acquire the heritage armor as well. So, if Blizzard ever did it, that would be roughly 100-120$ out of me, plus more of a reason to remain subbed.
    Exactly. I'm sure they'll add them eventually but maybe now's not the right time -- especially if the "rumors" about San'lay for the Horde are true. They wouldn't want to put out too many elves over the course of a single expansion.

  15. #4775
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    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    Exactly. I'm sure they'll add them eventually but maybe now's not the right time -- especially if the "rumors" about San'lay for the Horde are true. They wouldn't want to put out too many elves over the course of a single expansion.
    If true. Ughhi mean sweet badass race just..damn will that not do much to help stop people crying horde bias/pointing out wishlists.

  16. #4776
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    So out of curiosity what would you guys do/how would you feel if cannonicaly (for what ever reason) the vast majority of the current "HE" reunited with Quel'thalas?

    I bring this up because Auric Sunchaser who is a blue eye'd elf seemed to advocate Thalassian unity the last we saw him which is to say about ten years ago.

    For those of you who do not know who mr Sunchaser is. He is a member of Allerias old attack force she brought to Draenor back during the 2nd war. He was the leader back at Allerian hold. We last saw him during the Quel'dalar questline.

    Now of course this is 100% Hypothetical but we keep on talking about the portions of the "HE" that are currently with the Alliance and of course there have been some as you call them Anti-HE people who suggest killing them yet no one has suggested in light of the implications BE might get blue eyes that reuniting might be on the table

    Now I am not looking for a debate on if it will happen or not , I am just curious how the response would be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    High elf fans are basically flat-earth society of warcraft lore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Alleria Windrunner View Post
    I AM the victim.

  17. #4777
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralqadar View Post
    Now I am not looking for a debate on if it will happen or not , I am just curious how the response would be.
    In a word? Terrible.

    This wouldn't give the screamers what they want. They want blue themed blood elves on the Alliance and this would probably be seen as yet another case of "Blizzard shitting on the Alliance in all their Horde biased glory"

    I honestly imagine they would throw an even bigger fit if this happened compared to what they're doing now, which would be quite an achievement tbh.

  18. #4778
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralqadar View Post
    So out of curiosity what would you guys do/how would you feel if cannonicaly (for what ever reason) the vast majority of the current "HE" reunited with Quel'thalas?
    I would feel insulted as a customer.

    They know that the alliance high elf demand exists, it's been there for years and is not going away. But just a i can understand the design choice to avoid adding high elves, i would never understand a design choice that would hurt a part of your playerbase both by spiting on their petition and by giving what they asked for to part of the players that are against that petition. That would be repeating the same mistake Ion did the other day.

    I'm not saying is not possible in a far future, but if that needs to happen, it needs to be a really slow walk that should start by not featuring more high elves on the alliance, because that's why we are talking about all of this in the first place.

    Edit: BTW, i would love to leave the whole HE thing behind. Is not going to happen, they have their reasons... fine. But try to understand why void elves failed to satisfy that petition and try change them accordingly. Let's not forget that the HE demand we've seen latetly started a few months ago on a void elf feedback thread.
    Last edited by Geckoo; 2018-05-03 at 09:38 AM.
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  19. #4779
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    I would feel insulted as a customer.

    They know that the alliance high elf demand exists, it's been there for years and is not going away. But just a i can understand the design choice to avoid adding high elves, i would never understand a design choice that would hurt a part of your playerbase both by spiting on their petition and by giving what they asked for to part of the players that are against that petition. That would be repeating the same mistake Ion did the other day.

    I'm not saying is not possible in a far future, but if that needs to happen, it needs to be a really slow walk that should start by not featuring more high elves on the alliance, because that's why we are talking about all of this in the first place.

    Edit: BTW, i would love to leave the whole HE thing behind. Is not going to happen, they have their reasons... fine. But try to understand why void elves failed to satisfy that petition and try change them accordingly. Let's not forget that the HE demand we've seen latetly started a few months ago on a void elf feedback thread.
    Change Void Elves how?

    The whole rationale behind Void Elves was to grant the Alliance access to a type of High Elf that did not encroach on the theme or look of a Blood/High Elf.

    If what you mean by changing Void Elves is to move them closer to Blood/High Elves either in look or in theme, that is almost certainly not to going to happen as it defeats the point of creating Void Elves in the first place and undermines the story we think Blizzard wants to tell with the Void Elves, a race of elves who wish to delve into the powers of the void at variance with the light focused Blood Elves.

    It also encroaches on the fantasy of the 'pale skinned majestic elf' as Ion put it, which is intrinsic to the Horde now.

    In fact, given Ion's hints, it is far more likely that it will be the Blood Elves who are changed with the addition of blue eyes customizations.

  20. #4780
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Change Void Elves how?
    I guess we can agree that the only reason to deny playable high elves is that the fantasy ends up being the same, it has nothing to do with lore, population or even the fact that they share the same model, because all of that can be changed as needed (as proved by void elves). But the fantasy will always be the same or otherwise we would just be talking about a different type of elf, that's the issue with all those cool fan made concepts on this thread, they can be great, but they are certainly not the high elves we know, just as void elves.

    So how can they actually be the different type of elf that meets both blizzard needs and player demands? It's a great challenge, but if their current implementation fails to do that (and i do think it fails), then Blizzard should try to change them up a bit.

    First they need to work on the lore, and while i believe the best way to solve this would be to actually remake the whole unlock scenario to include high elves, that's very unlikely, so i would rather talk about the future.

    We have blood and high elves on telogrus studying about the void, but no indication about if that means that they can actually become void elves or are just there learning about it. This opens up two questions...
    - have void elves learned how to make more void elves?
    - why would anyone willingly go through a process to become something that originally was the unwanted result of an accident?

    In-game lore should try to answer those questions, but i'll use them to talk about the second part about how i would fix it.

    In a world where void elves are able to teach others, it doesn't make sense that those that learn end up looking just as the other void elves, because, again, that was the undesired outcome of an accident that happened by a very specific situation that can no longer happen. It would make sense that going forward if void elves are able to teach other elves how to control the void, with Alleria & the locust walker involved, all of them could be able to keep their original looks, it's all about how they write their story.

    When it comes to gameplay i'm talking about giving void elves the same option worgen's have. Void form (actual models) when you are in combat, optional normal elf form when out of combat, with customization options that would be heavily linked to their void forms.

    Instead of thinking about a blood elf model that suddenly turns blue, think of it as a void elf model that has the option while out of combat to have a more human-like skin tone and more natural hair colors. Everything else would be the same: same eyes, same facial hair, earrings and hairstyles (without tentacles).

    This way the high elf lore has some continuation and you also give them a model that allows them to roleplay as a high elf, but the void elf fantasy is still distinct enough. That would be a valid compromise for me.

    And i'm fully aware that many pro high elf people don't want this, but they are still on denial about playable high elves. So let me add that if some day Blizzard wants to add playable high elves, they'll just do it, no matter what has happened to them lorewise in the past or even if blood elves already have blue eyes at that point (and i totally support that btw, just not a good choice to do it now).
    Last edited by Geckoo; 2018-05-03 at 10:59 AM.
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