Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[preludeoflight]

They created a neutral race in Pandaren as an experiment and made their neutrality the core of their theme. The concept of neutrality failed, and Pandaren appear to be fated to be the exception to the rule and they get away with it because neutrality is their theme. Blood Elves, who are High Elves, have been Horde for eleven years now and their look and theme are an intrinsic part of the Horde faction.

You're right, and as Ithekro pointed out, they definitely didn't like the way the neutral race played out for many reasons. I was merely point to the fact that visual similarity between factions isn't (and in my opinion, shouldn't be) an issue.

That's one of the great things about High Elves is that they *aren't* neutral. Biologically the same as Blood Elves, but they're a group of elves that refused to forsake their allies when the rest of their race then. They're inherently Alliance, where as those that adopted the name Blood Elves aren't.

and that the last thing we heard from Blizzard (last week) is that a race identical to Blood Elves on the Alliance would be considered as blurring the faction wall too much.

I can't dispute that point much — it is their opinion after all. I obviously disagree, but completely see where their stance is coming from. I just fall in the group of folks that know a soft "not now" from Blizzard is certainly not the death knell of a concept. Hell, even a "no", or "never" isn't anymore these days (a la players getting a 'purified' ashbringer or doomhammer, or all sorts of other things they said we'd never get.) They want to make the game they want to make, sure. They also want to make a game that fulfills people's fantasies. It seems that High Elf is one of those fantasies that's more popular than ever at the moment. Who knows where they fall if people continue clamoring for it.

While I personally think the Pandaren succeeded as a race, the more widespread view is that the concept of a neutral race failed.

I agree with you on that. I realize the issues they've had with storytelling like Ithekro drew attention, but I think they could come up with ways to do it if they really wanted to.

[ninthbelief]

I think Auric being the new leader of the Angels is a really good sign. He's a "prominent" High Elf (literally called High Elf Representative) who's not Alleria or Vereesa, which means even if Vereesa is murdered here in a minute like people suspect, we still have a separate faction of High Elves to grab from for player characters.

Also, I wouldn't count High Elves out of this expansion. A lot of the things Blizzard did leading up to the Q&A were really suspicious from a marketing point of view. I would wait for Blizzcon before we start cleaving with "get High Elves in the middle of next expansion".

E: To make things relevant to the current page, I think neutral races were a wonderful success and would love for there to be more of them, but to be clear that's from a story point of view and not a model one. I don't think models/aesthetic were ever a good indicator for faction after Horde got their first pretty race. Pandas being on both sides doesn't hurt me or visibility in general I don't personally think, if it's red it's hostile and if it's green it isn't.

[Aldo Hawk]

I disagree that it's the greatest obstacle. It's certainly the foundation of the world and lore, but it's a whole lot less than it used to be. Beyond just the Pandaren playable race being identical for both factions, the alliance and horde team up just about any time there's a truly existential threat. Sure that's less likely (at least to start) an expansion called "Battle for Azeroth", where it's made to look like the two sides are at the most odds again, but once the old gods start showing up or whatever, they'll start working with each other again.



Except for those darn Pandaren. Being dang literally identical for both sides.

What i still don't understand is people claiming that faction wall is compounded by playable characters and not themes, lore, storytelling, and those kinda things that differentiates one faction from another.

Just look how many games with factions but just humans or the same races in the two sides do the faction wall right, and in wow we have this thing with two factions with different races, and we got one race that is the exact same in both sides and even ideologically are the same playable-wise because huojin and tushui is not something that the player selects, is the faction what is at the election.

And while BE are HE at least those two makes a more interesting dichotomy and HE could have a new idle or slightly different body porpotions alongside the expected hairstyles, faces and blah blah blah...

But nah, let'z nut brek da facktion wool cuz allied stoned elven ppl will do it!!!!!

Edit: And let's be real, even if tomorrow we litterally got humans, gnomes and dwarves in horde and orcs, trolls and tauren in the alliance, that's half the base playable of the two factions, are you going to tell me that HE being simillar but not the exact same as BE is that big of a deal?

[Gerron]

so in vanila the dark irons were aligned and friendly with the horde? thats new to me, cause as far as i know they and the dark horde pretty much were enemies

I thought that the Dark Irons and Leper Gnomes would join the Horde up until Cata. Probably best for WoW and the Horde that they didn't as before Cata DI were just evil. Leper Gnomes will probably still happen for the Horde though.

[ercarp]

[Aldo Hawk]

Need I remind you, one of us had their point of view validated by the developers last week and the other had their arguments completely rejected yet still seemingly persists in acting as if that didn't happen?

wat?......

Proove it, i saw the interview like 10 times and i'm tired of it, you are just lying or in denial.

[preludeoflight]

Just look how many games with factions but just humans or the same races in the two sides do the faction wall right,

This is another argument I find very strong. So many games have humans (or multiple races) on both sides, and yet they manage to stay completely separate. How? Ideology. How in the world does the Horde not have some sort of human sub-faction that they're not aligned with enough to be a playable race? It goes a bit into that 'morally gray' discussion going on at the moment, but I believe there's simply no way that there's not a group (even a quite sizable) ones that would identify more with the morals and goals of the Horde than they would the Alliance. Sure, there's the issue perhaps of Orcs or some other group being racist against all humans or something of that nature, but I'm positive there'd be a a group that would be able to convince the Horde leadership that "those guys wearing blue suck, we want to be on your team."

They'd be biologically no different than Alliance humans, but ideologically worlds apart. It'd be an incredible hotbed for faction and racial tension. Alliance humans disgusted with them for 'forsaking' their own race (much like Blood Elves are for High Elves), and Horde humans unable to comprehend how their Alliance counterparts are blind to the tyranny they willingly follow (Again, like High Elves are of Blood Elves.)

[Friendlyimmolation]

wat?......

Proove it, i saw the interview like 10 times and i'm tired of it, you are just lying or in denial.

You're accusing others of lying and being in denial, but you're rejecting the lead game dev on saying no and saying his arguments don't matter?

[Aldo Hawk]

You're accusing others of lying and being in denial, but you're rejecting the lead game dev on saying no and saying his arguments don't matter?

Ion didn't said he would not add them, he said no for now, that's not a no, that's a maybe let's see in the future.

So he didn't said yes nor no, so stop being so delusional.

[Obelisk Kai]

Ion didn't said he would not add them, he said no for now, that's not a no, that's a maybe let's see in the future.

So he didn't said yes nor no, so stop being so delusional.

Face it, he said no and unless you can figure out how to make a High Elf that isn't pale skinned, blond or majestic then his 'anything can happen in the future' line was a standard platitude in case at some point, FAR down the road beyond current timeframes, they change their minds.

Now you might be fine with spending the next ten years waiting for that and to then proclaim your victory, but I'll take the here and now where he ruled them out comprehensively over an extremely unlikely hypothetical future where someone changes their mind.

[Traveler Voltin]

are they back to being delusional again?

[Aldo Hawk]

Face it, he said no and unless you can figure out how to make a High Elf that isn't pale skinned, blond or majestic then his 'anything can happen in the future' line was a standard platitude in case at some point, FAR down the road beyond current timeframes, they change their minds.

Now you might be fine with spending the next ten years waiting for that and to then proclaim your victory, but I'll take the here and now where he ruled them out comprehensively over an extremely unlikely hypothetical future where someone changes their mind.

Don't you realise that it is you the one who believes they aren't going to change their minds in 10 years? I mean, i take on that chance, but i'm not ofuscated on it, maybe you should grab a beautiful and well decorated mirror and look yourself on it.

Edit: xd

[ercarp]

[Obelisk Kai]

Don't you realise that it is you the one who believes they aren't going to change their minds in 10 years? I mean, i take on that chance, but i'm not ofuscated on it, maybe you should grab a beautiful and well decorated mirror and look yourself on it.

Edit: xd

Well they haven't changed their minds after fifteen and they seem firmer than ever in their rejection so I think the balance of probability is on my side.

[Zulkhan]

Ion didn't said he would not add them, he said no for now, that's not a no, that's a maybe let's see in the future.

Except he said no, period. That's the stance he'll maintain for the foreseeable future and of course it would have been silly to affirm such stance even towards the distant and yet-to-plan future. Nonetheless, considered how Blizzard plans several expansions in advance, it's quite set in stone the fact that High Elves will not be a thing and for a very long time.

- - - Updated - - -

That's pretty much the same answer that was given for High Elves.

Like, not at all. "It's always possible" is definitely not the vibe you get from Ion's words regarding High Elves.

[united]

You're accusing others of lying and being in denial, but you're rejecting the lead game dev on saying no and saying his arguments don't matter?

The funny thing about this whole high elf debate is that it's entirely superficial. If they changed lore and made high elves black or something then no one would accept it. I know it, you know it, hell even Ion brought it up.

Legolas on the Alliance side isn't happening people. The faster you accept that the better

- - - Updated - - -

Ion didn't said he would not add them, he said no for now, that's not a no, that's a maybe let's see in the future.

So he didn't said yes nor no, so stop being so delusional.

Yeah Aldo Hawk. The future! You guys waited 14 years let's see if you can wait another 14!

[Aldo Hawk]

Well they haven't changed their minds after fifteen and they seem firmer than ever in their rejection so I think the balance of probability is on my side.

Now are fifteen years instead of thirteen, and you just jumped over the entire allied race concept that got added a pair of months ago.

You are doing pretty good!!

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah Aldo Hawk. The future! You guys waited 14 years let's see if you can wait another 14!

I don't care if they got added or not, i just want a more complete game, and again, you are just avoiding that the allied race concept is something that opens the door for something like HE, and it got oficcially added 2-3 months ago.

[FlubberPuddy]

@ercarp your artwork is so amazing! Glad to see it got a great reception on Reddit and that others there said they would be down with these "throwback WC2 High Elves"

Now to everyone who quoted me:

John Hight: It's always possible, but we don't have any immediate plans to include the Wildhammer clan.

Ion Hazzikostas: Anything is possible in the future, but no plans in the near-term to add High Elves as an Allied Race.

I mean not sure how much crystal clear-er both statements can be. They both bring across the same message. "Not now but maybe later." They are nearly verbatim. Unless people haven't heard of synonyms and thesauruses.

What I find much funnier is how often the anti-helfers stay in this thread. I guess this means if HE fans are going to talk about High Elves until they're added then the anti-Helfers will be right alongside saying no

[Deleted]

Ion didn't said he would not add them, he said no for now, that's not a no, that's a maybe let's see in the future.

So he didn't said yes nor no, so stop being so delusional.

It's pretty obvious that Ion does not want to add them. I mean, he completely ignored the hottest debate of the last 6 months, so much is he adamant on not giving High Elves. That said, devs change all the time, so the next game director may have a different opinion about the topic.

[ercarp]

@ercarp your artwork is so amazing! Glad to see it got a great reception on Reddit and that others there said they would be down with these "throwback WC2 High Elves"

Thank you! It did get downvoted a lot first (which was the expected reaction) but I'm glad it turned around! I hope I managed to make at least a few people more open to the idea of high elves as a playable race.