Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Aldo Hawk]

youa re the one whos tarted sayig im crying and whining, so now you are sad that i sadi t you? :<

youa re crying without anything to back up, when ion said "there are not tongs of HE" and you cry "BUT MUH SILVER CUVENANT" is not back up



no, im pretty sure im already in a high lv, pointing out delusions is my hobby

- - - Updated - - -



"hey look at me im taking 2 different things and putting in the same measure to back up my own fanfic"

You were the one starting to say that others come here to cry, you're still a low level forum troll.

You don't even take the argument that falstad could be dead today if Red Shirt Guy didn't pointed that out in that Blizzcon just because it goes against what you want, that's being an asshole an you know it xddddd

- - - Updated - - -

Using the fact Allied race were introduced as a system less than three months is ridiculous as a perceived trump card when High Elves were almost certainly one of the first races considered for the system and Blizzard introduced Void Elves instead.

And when asked about it, Ion has explained why they made that choice.

A trump card? please you're just so butthurt that you think i'm here using a fact as a trump card xddddddddd

If they considered HE and not added them it doesn't mean they couldn't consider it again, Demon Hunters and Death Knights were considered time ago before being implemented in the game, a lot of things were considered and not added before a time and even today we didn't got things that were on the table. Jeez it was in Legion when we got simple things like a 'stop in next point' with flying routes and our characters moving their heads when we select something nearby.

[protip]

He gave the answer he had to give based on their current plans.

I like how no Anti-helfers aren't commenting on the fact that John Hight in a recent interview already said they have them all planned out. Can certain notices make them change their plans? Certainly, but has he said, they definitely have a plan.

When you take these reasons it's very clear to see that the races we know of right now were already planned from the get go.

1) They wanted Legion races given before BfA. So this makes HM, NB, and LF self explanatory.

2) Alleria was hinted at in WoD to be related to the Void or at least where one of her arrows were found. Thus that was clue meant to show her story leading to what happened on Argus.

Her Void Elves were given as a prop to her story, now she can be more involved. Vereesa is the leader of Silver Covenant and instead of making Alleria the leader for High Elves they just gave Alleria her own set of elves so she can be a leader herself.

Y'all have to face it that regardless of High Elves, Void Elves were made to give Alleria more story than anything else. Of course we will probably see some development of Void Elf story because they're the one lacking much at all compared to the other 3 legion races.

3) Now we look forward to the BFA races. Obviously Zandalari and KT are self explanatory, expansion centered around their landmasses.

So what about Dark Iron and Mag'har? Here they've mentioned that Dark Iron were the ones that based on player feedback they decided to implement. This because they've been asked for many years (hmm sounds familiar to High Elves don't it?).

Because really take a moment to think, what would they pair Mag'har with? High Elves? They already released a set of elves, they're not going to release another set so soon.

4) That interview also says that the way they decide on AR is to see which faction is having too much of one thing (cute races vs tough ones) and then they decide to give that theme to the other faction to balance it out.

Like they say from that interview, "Horde can't just be all ugly races right?" This made me OMEGALUL .

So based on the above info, it's pretty clear to see why High Elves wouldn't come out right away. I mean someone could say the same thing about Ogres, they've been highly requested for so many races and why didn't they come out with Ogres immediately?

It's always going to be incredibly stupid to take the position of "if it's not in now, it never will be" that some people are taking, since Blizzard has a pretty open track record of eventually implementing things that have historically been highly requested. Even if it takes them "forever" to get around to it and even if previously they've explicitly said "no" on the matter (spoiler: Ion didn't say No High Elves forever).

But yes, all Anti-helfers, keep taking the position that since something isn't in now, it'll never happen. We already see some saying if High Elves do happen then they'd most likely play one (of course most would that's why they're clearly popular).

Like that Ron Jeremy poster said, they can always develop High Elves to make them different enough to be added if they currently don't feel up to snuff. It's very clear that their plan with Allied Races right now is going to be to come out with the biggest visually different races.

Again this is supported by Dark Iron over Wildhammer, Void Elves over High Elves, Kultiran getting extremely new looks, etc. Heck even John Hight said that Mag'har complete clans idea was because you can't tell much difference between the Orcs when they're armored up (hm same arguments people brought up with regards to Void Elves vs Blood Elves) hence why they decided to include all the clans in one go. So they're not stupid, they want the races coming out right now to be visibly different enough through armor. So yeah High Elves as they are currently would fail this test.

But let's see what happens the next time elves get added to the Alliance. And oh yes we will see more elves, not for a while but someone would have to be pants on head dumb to think no more elves will get added.

It's true that they both gave platitudes along the lines of "anything is possible," but the context was very different. Before I continue though, I'd like to point out that there is a difference between "it's always possible," and "anything is possible." One points out the possibility of a specific idea, the other says that possibilities are endless so perhaps there's also a chance for the idea in question. "It's always possible" is much more positive than the other, because it implies that there is a specific reason to believe that something is possible, rather than implying that the reason something is possible is because anything is possible.

Anyway, there would be no need to manage expectations like that if they were had any interest in pursuing a high elf allied race. No one opens a sales pitch by going explaining all of the problems something causes, and they are always trying to hype up the potential for future content. Think about all the suggestions you hear at Blizzcon, and the answer is always, "Yeah, that's a cool idea, but we have other plans for <next expansion>." They never give a list of reasons something isn't happening unless they've already rejected the idea. Occasionally they'll say something like "That might cause x, but maybe there's a way around it." He gave no such qualifying statements.

As for why they added Void Elves, there were two reasons:

the Void Elf angle, as it tied into the story of Argus, the powers of Alleria awakened and was able to train others to harness, was able to give something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf but had a unique flavor of its own to the Alliance.

So, yes, Alleria was involved. However, the second part of that sentence shouldn't be ignored, because that's where he explains that Void Elves were chosen instead of high elves. It's likely that they have had that planned out since WoD (or even before), but that doesn't change the fact that Void Elves were chosen over high elves. It's easy to assume that more elves will be added, but unless they have that unique flavor, they're going to have the same problems that they always have. That's why Ion went through the trouble of explaining those problems, and the fact that he expressed them in terms of their current concerns only shows that they haven't changed their position. Point being, he gave the answer he had to give base on their current plans and the way that they continue to make those plans.

PS: I can't imagine why anyone would comment about them having a plan; it's painfully obvious. How would they not have a plan by now about something as significant as playable races, especially when it's such a major feature of the expansion?

[Varx]

Ok, I've been extremely anti-High Elf, but after the possibility of San'lyan was reviled I recently I thought of a way to introduce High Elves and make both sides happy.

Perhaps in 9.0, Silvermoon is updated in the world and is integrated into the continent. All of Eversong Woods and Ghostlands have been forever changed. The Silver Covenant, lead by Vareesa Windrunner, have decided to reclaim their birthright and have launched a full-on assault.

So that's the story in a nutshell. What does this add for World of Warcraft?

Blood Elves/High Elves are now the 2nd Neutral race and will have an updated starting experience which will culminate in the player choosing their allegiance. A new battleground would be introduced around this story. This would also spark an alliance/horde conflict for w/e the new expansion is since the faction war will hopefully take a backseat after BfA.

To compensate the Horde for losing a core race they will receive a brand new race in Ogres. Perhaps the Gorian Ogres from WoD. Their starting area would be the continent in the bottom left of the Draenor map. Playable classes include: Mage, Warlock, Priest, Rogue, Monk, Hunter, Shaman, Warrior, Death Knight (Stone Maul Ogres). Racial Ability would be an AoE knockback.

The Demon Hunter Problem: When thinking of this I came to the issue of DH's. Right now they're the most racial exclusive class in WoW, one for Alliance and one for Horde. If Belves become neutral then how does that effect Blood Elf demon Hunters. Two solutions I thought of was A: All DH Belves are automatically Horde or B: the DH intro is updated with the training of new recruits, adding even more races.

Death Knights: In the quest where you speak to a member of your race, your conversation will be interrupted by an alliance elf who will try to influence you. At the end you choose which capital you head out to.

Allied Races: A: Gilgoblins will be the new Horde swap and mirror Nightborne H: San'lyan will serve as the mirror to Velves.

So lets recap. What does my idea add to WoW.

• New Horde/Alliance conflict narrative.
• New Battleground.
• 1 new neutral race/1 new horde race
• 2 new allied races.
• More demon hunter races

What does High Elf allied race add?

• N
• O
• T
• H
• I
• N
• G

So that's it. I strongly believe that this way or something similar would be the only optimal way to introduce Alliance High Elves. Using allied races is not the answer when the system is deigned for reskins or new models entirely, not copy-pastes. But, if Blizzard decides to leave it as it is then I won't lose a single night's sleep.

In Ion we trust.

[JustaRandomReindeer]

I have a question. If High Elves get the Human skeleton instead of the BE one would you guys play them? Asking out of curiositiy.

[Broken Fox]

I have a question. If High Elves get the Human skeleton instead of the BE one would you guys play them? Asking out of curiositiy.

Then they’d be Stick Up the Ass Elves instead of High Elves. Draenei males got it worse though.

[Blayze]

Then they’d be Stick Up the Ass Elves instead of High Elves. Draenei males got it worse though.

Could be half-elves.

[JustaRandomReindeer]

Could be half-elves.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. It seems like at this point the chance to get High Elves is pretty slim but if someone can come up with a good Half-elf model then people will have their fair-skinned pointy-eared long-haired blonde elf people on the Alliance and everyone will be happy I guess.

[Ithekro]

Why is everyone going off on blonde hair? I think both blood elves I've made have been redheads (one live, one in alpha)

[Zulkhan]

I mean not sure how much crystal clear-er both statements can be. They both bring across the same message.

Like, not at all. "Anything is possible" is a more vague, slightly unsubstantial statement compared to "It's always possible".

[FlubberPuddy]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. It seems like at this point the chance to get High Elves is pretty slim but if someone can come up with a good Half-elf model then people will have their fair-skinned pointy-eared long-haired blonde elf people on the Alliance and everyone will be happy I guess.

This has actually been a common suggestion from the many HE threads on US forums, and I think this is why most of the HE supporters were peeved by Ion's response. It focused too much on the model without acknowledging that people were willing to use human/night elf skeletons.

I'm not sure how much more often it needs to be said but, it should be very clear at this point that people who want High Elves want them more for their story over the model.

If all HE people truly wanted was blood elf model on the Alliance then there wouldn't be such a ruckus over having Void Elves, since those literally are Blood Elves on Alliance. Ion even re-iterates that.

For instance maybe this makes it clearer:

If I were someone that wanted the Night Elf story of how they forsake arcane magic and turned to druidic/natural magics as a people. Then I would choose playing Night Elves on the Alliance because they are the continuation of that storyline.

If instead I were someone that was more interested in the Night Elves that loved using arcane magic and made their civilization around it akin to the Highborne of old then I'd choose to play the Nightborne because they are the night elf group that carries this specific storyline.

Same goes for Thalassian elf side:

If I wanted to play the group of elves that took on to Fel in an effort to survive their almost extinct race. Then Blood Elves are the group of elves to play for that story continuation.

If I wanted to play as the group of elves that decided against taking Fel and stuck to their Alliance comrades, then currently that's not possible to play. These are the elves of the Silver Covenant, the Highvale, the Allerian Stronghold, and any Dalarani and Stormwindian High Elves that are in service to the Alliance.

Void Elves are the group of Blood Elves who go in an entirely different direction. While the Sin'dorei are now moving towards a more Light-based society, these Ren'dorei decided instead to pursue the Void and through a freak-accident are now Void-corrupted Elves. These elves have their own separate storyline apart from both the Blood Elves and the High Elves. If I wanted to play this Void-stricken storyline then I'd play Void Elves.

We see no major High Elf groups like the ones listed above joining their storylines into the Void Elves. Therefore that storyline for players isn't available and they wish it was.

Now whether it should or shouldn't be playable is another question entirely, and up for debate. But hopefully this clears up, in what I personally think, is why I see others asking for High Elves.

Models can always be worked around, but the story for these guys can't. And it's not sufficient to say "oh just imagine" because then you could say "oh just imagine your orc is mag'har" or "just imagine your dark skin bronzebeard dwarf is a dark iron" or just imagine X is any Y race.

It's clear that the AR system is there to give people more character customization for their favorite races but it's also clear that story plays a big part into it too. The developers are always mentioning how the storyline that is currently happening also factors into whether a certain race will happen or not.

[JustaRandomReindeer]

This has actually been a common suggestion from the many HE threads on US forums, and I think this is why most of the HE supporters were peeved by Ion's response. It focused too much on the model without acknowledging that people were willing to use human/night elf skeletons.

I'm not sure how much more often it needs to be said but, it should be very clear at this point that people who want High Elves want them more for their story over the model.

If all HE people truly wanted was blood elf model on the Alliance then there wouldn't be such a ruckus over having Void Elves, since those literally are Blood Elves on Alliance. Ion even re-iterates that.

For instance maybe this makes it clearer:

If I were someone that wanted the Night Elf story of how they forsake arcane magic and turned to druidic/natural magics as a people. Then I would choose playing Night Elves on the Alliance because they are the continuation of that storyline.

If instead I were someone that was more interested in the Night Elves that loved using arcane magic and made their civilization around it akin to the Highborne of old then I'd choose to play the Nightborne because they are the night elf group that carries this specific storyline.

Same goes for Thalassian elf side:

If I wanted to play the group of elves that took on to Fel in an effort to survive their almost extinct race. Then Blood Elves are the group of elves to play for that story continuation.

If I wanted to play as the group of elves that decided against taking Fel and stuck to their Alliance comrades, then currently that's not possible to play. These are the elves of the Silver Covenant, the Highvale, the Allerian Stronghold, and any Dalarani and Stormwindian High Elves that are in service to the Alliance.

Void Elves are the group of Blood Elves who go in an entirely different direction. While the Sin'dorei are now moving towards a more Light-based society, these Ren'dorei decided instead to pursue the Void and through a freak-accident are now Void-corrupted Elves. These elves have their own separate storyline apart from both the Blood Elves and the High Elves. If I wanted to play this Void-stricken storyline then I'd play Void Elves.

We see no major High Elf groups like the ones listed above joining their storylines into the Void Elves. Therefore that storyline for players isn't available and they wish it was.

Now whether it should or shouldn't be playable is another question entirely, and up for debate. But hopefully this clears up, in what I personally think, is why I see others asking for High Elves.

Models can always be worked around, but the story for these guys can't. And it's not sufficient to say "oh just imagine" because then you could say "oh just imagine your orc is mag'har" or "just imagine your dark skin bronzebeard dwarf is a dark iron" or just imagine X is any Y race.

It's clear that the AR system is there to give people more character customization for their favorite races but it's also clear that story plays a big part into it too. The developers are always mentioning how the storyline that is currently happening also factors into whether a certain race will happen or not.

That's a reasonable explanation. I fully support the addition of HEs to the game if they have enough different features to distinguish them from BEs.

[protip]

Why is everyone going off on blonde hair? I think both blood elves I've made have been redheads (one live, one in alpha)

The vast majority of Blood Elves in-game are blonde. Lor'themar, Halduron, Kael'thas, the Silvermoon guards, and so many more. When you start a new Blood Elf, in the first room there are (approximately) 8 blonde elves and 2 redheads. I'd say it's a pretty prominent feature of Blood Elves as they appear to players.

Edit: It also comes up a lot because like Blood Elves, most of the High Elves in the game also have blonde hair.

[FlubberPuddy]

SNIP

As I said, the storylines play a big part in why certain ARs get chosen over others too and it seems to be the part of ARs that people seem to skip over or forget. And again as I said too, they are rolling out "more visually distinct races" rather than extremely similar ones. It's why Orcs got a whole bunch of clans in one and why WH Dwarves nor High Elves were the first pick. Their comment about not wanting too many ugly races on one side means it's also probably why Ogres didn't get selected immediately as well.

I stand by Ion had to give the answer based on their current plans. It was absolutely meant to manage expectations, the High Elf topics were completely everywhere throughout the various WoW communities. This response put a huge reduction on the amount of talking happening on High Elves now that people know they aren't coming anytime soon at all.

And people understand that if High Elves are too similar then there needs to be more done to differentiate them, story wise and model wise. Hence my earlier response on agreeing with the Ron Jeremy guy that High Elves will probably need more development before they can be considered to be playable and my other response that their story isn't one that can currently be continued by the players.

As for your last mention on the plan thing, it did need to be commented on because the way some posters are speaking is as if Blizzard don't know which races they're going to add in the next patch or have already added like it was something debated until the minute of their reveal. That's also why the interview asked that question, "what is the long term plan considering people are already asking for many other races" and why they answered with they already have a set plan, though they're willing to dance around it if indeed there's enough demand to make it so, citing DI dwarves as an example and using the explanations that could be applied to High Elves as well.

This actually contradicts their earlier statements in which they asked players to tell them what they'd like to see. Since having it planned out means we aren't likely going to see any of the feedback we gave since Blizzcon taken into consideration until either towards the end of this expansion or the next. They cited DI was from years of players clamoring for it, not "recently we noticed an influx of people asking for this race".

That explanation was given to say: We are going to add the races we want, but we might also (if we feel like it and see enough demand) consider what the community is asking for.

[Darththeo]

So you do get it. Good for you!

Excuse me for having my own opinion and also believing that yours is wrong

Your opinion is factually wrong. You can believe that I am wrong for stating Ion didn't rule it out, but you would be wrong in that opinion.

You don't slam the door by leaving it open. You don't let people down gently by giving false hope. If you do the first, you are an idiot. If you do the latter, you are an ass.

[Byleth]

What I found a bit funny was the reaction from Ion and Lore when the question got brought up. I can see that they have been paying attention to this hot topic :>

You know, that's my favorite part of the interview too.

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Your opinion is factually wrong. You can believe that I am wrong for stating Ion didn't rule it out, but you would be wrong in that opinion.

You don't slam the door by leaving it open. You don't let people down gently by giving false hope. If you do the first, you are an idiot. If you do the latter, you are an ass.

*shrug*

Again you're ignoring all the context surrounding that sentence, and making an assumption in isolation without all the facts.

[Arrashi]

I have a question. If High Elves get the Human skeleton instead of the BE one would you guys play them? Asking out of curiositiy.

They should make high elves using pandaren male skeleton. That would make them diffrent enough. They would be High (blood pressure) elves.

[JustaRandomReindeer]

They should make high elves using pandaren male skeleton. That would make them diffrent enough. They would be High (blood pressure) elves.

Yeah maybe they were so addicted to arcane that they ate a little too many mana cupcakes so they got chubby.

[Darththeo]

*shrug*

Again you're ignoring all the context surrounding that sentence, and making an assumption in isolation without all the facts.

That's literally what you are doing, not me. He completely avoided really any 100% definitive language ... a fact you ignore or you twist into "Well he was just being nice." Do you think Ion is an idiot?

[Aldo Hawk]

Ok, I've been extremely anti-High Elf, but after the possibility of San'lyan was reviled I recently I thought of a way to introduce High Elves and make both sides happy.

Perhaps in 9.0, Silvermoon is updated in the world and is integrated into the continent. All of Eversong Woods and Ghostlands have been forever changed. The Silver Covenant, lead by Vareesa Windrunner, have decided to reclaim their birthright and have launched a full-on assault.

So that's the story in a nutshell. What does this add for World of Warcraft?

Blood Elves/High Elves are now the 2nd Neutral race and will have an updated starting experience which will culminate in the player choosing their allegiance. A new battleground would be introduced around this story. This would also spark an alliance/horde conflict for w/e the new expansion is since the faction war will hopefully take a backseat after BfA.

To compensate the Horde for losing a core race they will receive a brand new race in Ogres. Perhaps the Gorian Ogres from WoD. Their starting area would be the continent in the bottom left of the Draenor map. Playable classes include: Mage, Warlock, Priest, Rogue, Monk, Hunter, Shaman, Warrior, Death Knight (Stone Maul Ogres). Racial Ability would be an AoE knockback.

The Demon Hunter Problem: When thinking of this I came to the issue of DH's. Right now they're the most racial exclusive class in WoW, one for Alliance and one for Horde. If Belves become neutral then how does that effect Blood Elf demon Hunters. Two solutions I thought of was A: All DH Belves are automatically Horde or B: the DH intro is updated with the training of new recruits, adding even more races.

Death Knights: In the quest where you speak to a member of your race, your conversation will be interrupted by an alliance elf who will try to influence you. At the end you choose which capital you head out to.

Allied Races: A: Gilgoblins will be the new Horde swap and mirror Nightborne H: San'lyan will serve as the mirror to Velves.

So lets recap. What does my idea add to WoW.

• New Horde/Alliance conflict narrative.
• New Battleground.
• 1 new neutral race/1 new horde race
• 2 new allied races.
• More demon hunter races

What does High Elf allied race add?

• N
• O
• T
• H
• I
• N
• G

So that's it. I strongly believe that this way or something similar would be the only optimal way to introduce Alliance High Elves. Using allied races is not the answer when the system is deigned for reskins or new models entirely, not copy-pastes. But, if Blizzard decides to leave it as it is then I won't lose a single night's sleep.

In Ion we trust.

This is headcanon @Obelisk Kai and others, so don't try to compare what others and I say with things like this.

[Varx]

This is headcanon @Obelisk Kai and others, so don't try to compare what others and I say with things like this.

Huh? Dude I presented what would probably be the most ideal way to introduce High Elves to WoW and you shut me down???

This is why you guys can't have nice things.

You get Void Elves, "fuck you"

You get Neutral uncorrupted Thalasian Elves, "fuck you"