Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ithekro]

If you mean the "faction wall" argument, it was pointed out that that holds no water when it comes to High Elves and Blood Elves because neither is crossing the faction line. They are already parts of their respective factions and have been for a long time now. So that argument, despite what some think, is not valid. There are already High Elves in the Alliance and they've been there since Vanilla.

The model argument is invalid as well. Why? Because its not about the model. If Blizzard had made the Void Elves to be what happened to the High Elves, people would reluctantly have accepted it. But they didn't do that. They made them Blood Elves. And while Blood Elves are High Elves, and Void Elves are Blood Elves, which are High Elves, not all High Elves are Blood Elves, nor Void Elves. Logic does not work that way. I can be called an American. I am also a Human. Americans are pretty much Humans. That is true. Japanese are also Humans. Some Americans are also Japanese. But Japanese are usually not Americans. They are Japanese. They are still Human though. Not all Humans are American, nor are all Humans Japanese. This can go into several subcultures and ethnicities within any number of different countries, with America having lots of many of them being able to be rounded up as American, and all can be rounded up as Human. But other nations, some of which that are less diverse, can have subcultures as well, but none of them would be rounded up as Americans, but they are all Humans. Elves and Trolls follow similar patterns. A Sandfury Troll is a Troll, but is not a Forest Troll, they were Jungle Trolls at one point, but they are now Sand Trolls. Darkspear Troll is a Troll and a Jungle Troll, and part of the Horde. But they are no part of the Gurubashi Empire any longer. Dark Trolls are Trolls, but do not appear to be either Forest, nor Jungle Trolls, and are only a step away from being a Night Elf. But they are not elves.

Tangent aside, the entire point of wanting High Elves was to be what Alliance players saw when the game started....which was elves in the Alliance that weren't Night Elves. And that was well before the current Blood Elf model was made. They want to continue with their story. And no, Blood Elves of the Horde do not fulfill that story, and never have. If it did the arguments and asking for High Elves would have stopped a long time ago. Void Elves don't fulfill that story either because, lol, Blizzard made them not the High Elves that had been in the Alliance previously, but instead Blood Elves banished for meddling with the Void. Had they used the High Elves to make the Void Elf story right from the start, this wouldn't have been all that much of an issue (people would still bitch about it, but their story would be in line with what was requested). The High Elf enthusiast have been attempting to come up with solutions involving model alterations, tattoos, whatever to get the High Elves to be playable to get that story thread. They would probably have taken Void Elves if they had been presented as High Elves....they weren't, which is why the bitching started anew right after they were finally in game. Because the hope was that Void Elves would be the Alliance High Elves in a new form...they aren't. They are faction wall breaking Blood Elves that turned traitor and joined one of our two Windrunner sisters to control their Void issues.

[Aldo Hawk]

But I did. He brought up Horde Paladins and Aliiance Shaman, to what effect? What bearing did that have on the argument? None. Perfectly refuted.

He mentioned that the Worgen were better off on the Horde "thematically" but chose to completely ignore the standing lore of Gilneas and Genn's thoughts as to what should have happened to the Horde post WC2 (or was it 3, might be slightly mixed up there). Perfectly refuted.

And then I mentioned Void Elves, Nightborne, and Pandaren before he tried to bring them up and explained the fact that if Blizzard saw them to be to close in likeness to their parent races that they wouldn't have been added in the first place. And sure enough he jumped to them a few posts later. I'd say that's fairly well refuted considering we wound up with playable Nightborne and Void Elves, and Alliance High Elves still remain unplayable. And why? Refer to the most recent Q&A with Ion and Lore. They're too similar to that of Blood Elves, which they consider to be High Elves.

But like I said above, this is all neither here nor there, as I'm done wasting my time with him. He can continue to believe what he want's to believe. Clearly what I have to say is of little value to him. /shrug

Alliance Shamans and Horde Paladins made people mad in the past, it were one of the first faction-breaking movements that Blizzard did, and it didn't turn bad if you ask me.

And then when people bring the Pandaren argument, it is because despite we have a post by Ghostcrawler saying he didn't like it they are something that exists, and they are the exact same race with the exact same look and character options in the two factions with a story that divides them by on what school they studied, and even the player aren't from those schools, they only choose where they want to go, while HE can and should have a slightly different look and their story is differentiated from the BE one for more things than ideology like not using any kind of magic source to feed themselves, the people they relate to, or the things they fight for, is the same race with different theme.

[Ithekro]

The Nightborne, or Suramar as a city, would have to go one way or the other, or be a strictly neutral city, with adventures just going off to do whatever. There would need to be another rebellion, or a reasonable plotline that allows for the new Nightborne player to chose a side for "reasons", either they felt the Horde's Blood Elves made the a good ally, or their old bonds with the Night Elves was more in line with how their people think. The story for a neutral Suramar doesn't give Blizzard story material easily, and that was the problem with the Pandarens. Or Suramar would have to join either the Alliance or the Horde, and you would get a rebel faction that joined the other side that didn't have the city, or only part of the city in a perpetual war fight after the liberation from the Legion allied leadership. (that does happen in reality, but there would have needed to be a pro-Alliance and pro-Horde stylized leadership within the starting rebellion rather than just one leader that we have now.)

The Blood Elves and High Elves are already pre-divided for us. We don't have to make excuses or joined starting areas or anything like that. They already exist all nice and neat and in conflict with each other across the existing faction line. They don't even have to fight over the city (at least at first). Silvermoon is clearly in Horde hands. The Alliance High Elves are elsewhere and may or may not care about retaking that city.

[Aldo Hawk]

I don't use the Ghost Crawler argument when it comes to Pandaren. No problem with those that wish to because it's still a valid point.

No, I use one that's much easier and even observable when it come to the faction wall.

If Blizzard had any intention what-so-ever in adding another neutral race, then they skipped the mother of all chance with the Nightborne. They had a perfect opportunity with them, but they chose not to. Why? Simple, the faction wall. They don't want it blurred. If they weren't willing to do that with the Nightborne, then there should be little expectation of it happen with High Elves, especially when you consider that Blizzard says they're already playable in the form of Blood Elves.

What Ghostcrawler said is an opinion, not an argument, and bringin it is just bringing someone's opinion, not an argument... the argument with pandaren is that we already have a race that can be playable in the two factions with the exact same character creation options and we do not have problems with that, while HE are not near the Pandaren situation in this regard, and if they got released they would have different character creation options and a total different context that the Pandaren one... And when i say that it doesn't matter that ghostcrawled said he didn't liked them i said it not because it is important, i say that because there are people who thinks that the pandaren argument isn't valid because developers do not like them or something, and that doesn't make them dissapear......

The problem with nightborne is that they don't fit alliance, just look how different and hated are from night elves, it's kinda adding amani trolls in the horde while BE are watching, it's a matter of fitting the faction.

And i don't find fair that nightborne are horde (it's just so cool of a race that i find one faction having it playable is unfair, but i love them just as how they made them), while they fit better the horde just for the blood elves (perfect mix) and their hatred towards night elves.

But again, HE would not blur the faction lines, that's just acceptable to say if you take the current HE model and place it near to a BE model, and that's dishonest because it doesn't take in count the faction, the lore, and the visual differentiation that would be made if they got added.

HE even make the two factions more distinct, having the same race in the two factions but with different approaching and lore just draw a line between the two more away than the color of the eyes, that is the minor of the problems (i would like those in BE tought).

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That is honesty. You're the one being dishonest here. You're stubbornly refusing to admit the obvious reason why Void Elves were okay but High Elves weren't okay and instead pretending that Void Elves aren't that different.

You asked for High Elves. Blizzard said no and gave Void Elves as a compromise. Clearly Void Elves demonstrate just how far Blizzard is willing to make a race look similar to another one that's on the other faction. They want the races to be easy to distinguish apart if you see them. Which you can easily do if you can see the Blood Elf or Void Elf and they're not completely covered in gear. This is no goat story. This is no lie. This is the truth that you're refusing to admit.

Void Elves are blood elves, they just got exiled from Silvermoon and joined the alliance because they got melted with the void and Alleria were there, they all are still magisters and rangers and all that, just without usage of the light, Silvermoon and the horde.

There's even a guy a pair of pages back i believe who has the theory of Blizzard wanting to release the most distinct AR first, and i do not take that as a fact, because we do not have something that backup that 100%, we just saw that every AR race that got released until now are visually distinct, and that not makes a fact, it's like saying that white giraffes aren't posibble because every one that you saw are brown and yellow, but totally forgot that albinism is a thing.

[Obelisk Kai]

Actuallly they JUST added a reference to the leader of the outkand HE a few days ago.

If you mean the renaming of Jaina's Angels to Auric's Angels, I have to point out that the last time we saw Auric he was at the Sunwell. On Azeroth.

In other words, as Corebit said, he has 'moved on'.

The likeliest outcome for the majority of the elves stranded in Outland, and there were never many of them, was that they went home in one form or another once the way was clear and Illidan had fallen.

There isn't even a guarantee they all went to the Alliance. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that some of them, pining for home and sick of warfare, went home to Silvermoon.

[Sigxy]

Christ sake, this thread has literally given me a nightmare about the big reveal of High Elves and San'Layn for some reason becoming neutral races.

Guys, stop. It's over. Please. ;_:

If that's not enough, given how we're talking about Auric; given how he supports both High elves and Blood elves rallying together to avenge what the Scourge had done to their people, can we just not have him and HIS high elves join QT already? I know it was back during WotLK but that's the only way you'll get your high elves. Even if they will be named Blood Elves.

[RangerDaz]

Stop discussing and asking for it again and again! Daddy said NO!

So why are you still here in this thread?
As you consider that the discussion is over.

[Deleted]

A friend of a friend of a friend of a friend who works for Blizzard told me, that High Elves will become playable as soon as no one cares and talks about these retarded Void Elves anymore, who are a massive fail pulled out of Blizzards behind, which Blizzard can not admit. So they will just wait until they open the High Elves gold mine to make a shitload of money and to annoy the heck out of morons who don't have the slightest clue how business works.

[Darththeo]

So a non-point that you're trying to present as a point. Neat. Goes back to me telling you to try harder.

Except it isn't. A point of Faction identity was Horde had Shaman and Alliance had Paladin ... that disappeared. The Idea that "High Elf" can never pass through the wall is pretty much destroyed by this point.

Which boils down to story.

Literally doesn't. You can't boil down theme to story ... that really can't happen because you can boil story down to theme, not the other way. You can build a theme into a story.

Do you? I'm not the one that just made a claim about Worgen being a better fit for the Horde, despite Gilneas' (Genn's) stance on the Horde.

You are thinking too literal ... please actually go back and read what I said. I am stating the theme of Worgen fits the Horde more than the Alliance and they made the story fit them joining the Alliance to encourage Horde Players to play Alliance. The existence is proof of that. I could argue why did they choose to have Forsaken join the Horde or the Blood Elves ... hell people ask why Tauren stay Horde all the damn time. Some even argued for Dark Iron to have gone Horde (before announced in BfA they are playable for Alliance).

Yes they can be, but considering they're saying that Blood Elves are High Elves. Therefore High Elves are Blood Elves, minus political stance. So there would be no real difference between the two. And THAT is maintaining the faction wall. That is why HE's aren't available Alliance side.

And yet, High Elves already fight for the Alliance ... have been apart of the Alliance since day 1. Were consider over gnomes for Vanilla. Etc ... the answer we were given was just not now. The "faction wall" isn't really a wall that can never be crossed.

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You think we don't see you trolling Darth, but we do.

Your above comment is literally exactly what you are doing. Your arguments have had ZERO substance for a long time now, and your excuse is that you have already made the argument previously... Yet we've not actually seen any proof of this, no matter how far back we go in this abominable thread.

You are so good at ignoring facts and context that you could be a communications director for Trump.

Your entire argument has been zero substance. And I don't want to take your job.

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No need to be so condescending. After all, the fact that no one seems to care about all of these things that you imagine break the faction wall is only further evidence that they aren't significant.

Ever stop to think that is pretty much what giving High Elves to the Alliance would be? Not significant.

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That is honesty. You're the one being dishonest here. You're stubbornly refusing to admit the obvious reason why Void Elves were okay but High Elves weren't okay and instead pretending that Void Elves aren't that different.

I don't think you understand Honestly. You answer question in a manner that you know is false to hold true to your point ... you make dumbass assumption and don't understand how the human mind works. You aren't honest, and never have been in this topic.

You asked for High Elves. Blizzard said no and gave Void Elves as a compromise. Clearly Void Elves demonstrate just how far Blizzard is willing to make a race look similar to another one that's on the other faction. They want the races to be easy to distinguish apart if you see them. Which you can easily do if you can see the Blood Elf or Void Elf and they're not completely covered in gear. This is no goat story. This is no lie. This is the truth that you're refusing to admit.

I never asked for High Elves, I don't see them being a problem. Do you people still not get what I am arguing for? I am not demanding High Elves, I am stating their inclusion would not do what Blizzard is claiming it would. I can see why they would think it would, but it won't. Void Elves aren't really that different from Blood Elves ... they are blood elf made purple. The funny thing about this entire issue is that it would go away is if Blizzard gave Void Elves a lighter skin tone ... not the same as Blood Elves, still purple, but closer to the tone of Blood Elf.

[Darththeo]

Comparing giving Shamans and Paladins to each side to giving High Elves to the Alliance? Yeah because High Elves are totally as important as each side being given the important Paladin and Shaman buffs so that the two classes can continue to be unique without becoming a nightmare to balance.

You make a terrible analogy and you're upset when you don't get the answer you want and claim that I'm lying about it. Seriously this has nothing to do with the human mind or goats. Anyone playing WoW will constantly run into Blood Elves and Void Elves and can easily tell the difference between the two.

Giving Void Elves a lighter skin tone goes against the reason they made Void Elves to begin with. To have a distinct looking race that uses the Blood Elf character model so Alliance can have the model without having a race that looks like one the Horde has.

They're not that different? Oh I guess the Mag'har Orcs aren't that different from regular Orcs then! After all they just have a skin tone change and different hairstyle like the Void Elves do so clearly they're not that different. People are totally going to confuse Mag'har Orcs with the original Orcs because there's just not enough of a difference to know which is which!

Classes are more important to a game than Race is.

It's only terrible because you don't understand. And you are just getting pissy because I called you on you lie.

And did you bother to read what I wrote? It would STILL be different. It isn't going to be a carbon copy.

Accuses me of a terrible analogy and basically then uses a terrible analogy. Yes, Mag'har are just Orcs with different color skin, just like Void Elves are high elves with different color skin. Hell, Nightborne are just night elves with tattoos and silver/white hair. Highmountain Tauren are just Tauren with moose antlers and tribal paint/tattoo.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if while playing a person doesn't know if the Orc they are playing with is a regular Orc or Mag'har because frankly, how hard to you really look at the model of the player in game? I know I am in general paying more attention to what I am doing rather than who the hell I am fighting with/against.

[protip]

What Ghostcrawler said is an opinion, not an argument, and bringin it is just bringing someone's opinion, not an argument... the argument with pandaren is that we already have a race that can be playable in the two factions with the exact same character creation options and we do not have problems with that, while HE are not near the Pandaren situation in this regard, and if they got released they would have different character creation options and a total different context that the Pandaren one... And when i say that it doesn't matter that ghostcrawled said he didn't liked them i said it not because it is important, i say that because there are people who thinks that the pandaren argument isn't valid because developers do not like them or something, and that doesn't make them dissapear......

So... because the game is still running there are no problems with Pandaren? That's ridiculous, and it's your only evidence. Since the introduction of Pandaren, we have seen 8 allied races set to be added to the game, of which none are neutral. Furthermore, they have explained that they want to keep things distinct. Whatever the evidence may have been, they have come to a conclusion. If you believe that conclusion is based on no evidence, then you can be sure they'll come around and give you your high elves as soon as they are ready. All you have to do is ignore all of the times where they told you that's not what is happening.

But again, HE would not blur the faction lines, that's just acceptable to say if you take the current HE model and place it near to a BE model, and that's dishonest because it doesn't take in count the faction, the lore, and the visual differentiation that would be made if they got added.

HE even make the two factions more distinct, having the same race in the two factions but with different approaching and lore just draw a line between the two more away than the color of the eyes, that is the minor of the problems (i would like those in BE tought).

If Blood Elves weren't significantly affected by the fel (and we know this to be the case), then there is no reason for High Elves and Blood Elves to be visually different. Beyond that, there is a reason for them to look the same: they are the same. An arbitrary difference like that would make the game visually inconsistent, and undermine the identity of the race.

As you well know, groups like the Kul'tirans are different from the proposed High Elf/Blood Elf model changes, because they encompass both types of models in the story. They only need the larger models to be playable, because Alliance players already have access to the standard model through Stormwind humans. Making an exclusive visual split like that based on political opinions would be very awkward.

Void Elves are blood elves, they just got exiled from Silvermoon and joined the alliance because they got melted with the void and Alleria were there, they all are still magisters and rangers and all that, just without usage of the light, Silvermoon and the horde.

There's even a guy a pair of pages back i believe who has the theory of Blizzard wanting to release the most distinct AR first, and i do not take that as a fact, because we do not have something that backup that 100%, we just saw that every AR race that got released until now are visually distinct, and that not makes a fact, it's like saying that white giraffes aren't posibble because every one that you saw are brown and yellow, but totally forgot that albinism is a thing.

"...there is a desire to keep things distinct, especially between the factions." Whatever you may believe about this, they have explained that they are significantly less interested in pursuing visually similar allied races, in particular across factions. If you want to believe that they're just holding out on you, I'll send you a tinfoil hat myself.

[Ithekro]

A lighter skin tone on the Void Elves helps the RP crowd, but not the lore nerds. Having the Void Elves actually have been the High Elves that have been in the Alliance (rather than the Horde) the last several years in game would have sedated the lore people. But they aren't nor did Blizzard claim them to be in their unlock quest. No, they are Blood Elves. The only High Elf we have proof is a Void Elf is Alleria Windrunner, who is her own thing because she didn't get zapped like these poor smucks, and has had a good few hundred years to study the Void before being hit by a fallen Naaru's core. Thus Void Elves fail to do their job in sedating the High Elf fans lore wise. Thus the issues remain.

[Byleth]

Except it isn't. A point of Faction identity was Horde had Shaman and Alliance had Paladin ... that disappeared. The Idea that "High Elf" can never pass through the wall is pretty much destroyed by this point.

Ok, fair point. But now the developers have drawn a line in the sand, and made it clear that this is a line they don't want to cross.

You are thinking too literal ... please actually go back and read what I said. I am stating the theme of Worgen fits the Horde more than the Alliance and they made the story fit them joining the Alliance to encourage Horde Players to play Alliance. The existence is proof of that. I could argue why did they choose to have Forsaken join the Horde or the Blood Elves ... hell people ask why Tauren stay Horde all the damn time. Some even argued for Dark Iron to have gone Horde (before announced in BfA they are playable for Alliance).

Yes, atheistically they fit the horde much better than the alliance at the time they were introduced. Then we were introduced to their background and they were given context that made them a perfect fit for the Alliance. Blood Elves were the same for horde.

And yet, High Elves already fight for the Alliance ... have been apart of the Alliance since day 1. Were consider over gnomes for Vanilla. Etc ... the answer we were given was just not now. The "faction wall" isn't really a wall that can never be crossed.

Yes, correct. Blizzard have shown a willingness to cross the faction wall in the past. They seem much less inclined to do so now though. But it could still happen, absolutely.

Your entire argument has been zero substance.

Why? Because you don't like it? Ion slammed the door shut on High Elves for alliance.

Ever stop to think that is pretty much what giving High Elves to the Alliance would be? Not significant.

Ion has stated the developer beliefs as to why this would be bad for the health of the game, many posters have argued passionately about why it would be bad for the game. Your entire argument to date has been, Ion is wrong because I say so, Anti-Helfers are wrong because I say so, the developers have broken faction rules before so they should always continue to do so, because I say so. Everyone is stupid and dishonest because I say so. *golf clap*

I don't think you understand Honestly. You answer question in a manner that you know is false to hold true to your point ... you make dumbass assumption and don't understand how the human mind works. You aren't honest, and never have been in this topic.

A total failure to refute his point. And you flame this poster to boot.

I never asked for High Elves, I don't see them being a problem. Do you people still not get what I am arguing for? I am not demanding High Elves, I am stating their inclusion would not do what Blizzard is claiming it would. I can see why they would think it would, but it won't.

Why? Because you say so? Are you capable of making a more compelling argument than "because I say so"?

Void Elves aren't really that different from Blood Elves ... they are blood elf made purple. The funny thing about this entire issue is that it would go away is if Blizzard gave Void Elves a lighter skin tone ... not the same as Blood Elves, still purple, but closer to the tone of Blood Elf.

Again, Why? Because you say so? And now you're being dishonest. This argument won't ever end until Blizzard either add High Elves for alliance exactly as they are in game currently, or until they say a firm, no, never going to happen. Which in my opinion they have just done in a nice way, so as not to hurt peoples feelings (but I guess I'm wrong about that because you say so, amirite?)

[Darththeo]

Classes are more important to gameplay and balance. Meaning there's a much better reason for giving paladins and shamans to each faction than there is of giving a race to each faction.

And you still aren't ... what did you tell me to do later here .. "use your brain." It's evidence that faction identity isn't a wall, but a loose divide that they will change whenever they feel like. It's not a strong argument against High Elf.

Use your brain. Void Elves are the compromise. What they look like is the closest Blizzard is willing to go. They won't go any farther than what Void Elves currently look like. Having a very unique looking skin tone is important to telling the two apart. Giving them Blood Elfish skin tones would ruin that.

You are aware you can have a "unique" look and still be close to each other right? You seem to think that if you are too close you are basically identical and you know that isn't true.

Point is that you can't mistake a Mag'har Orc with a normal Orc. One has bright green skin and the other has brown skin. The contrast between the two skin tones is dramatic enough that nobody will be confused about which is which. Nightborne have a completely different idle animation, different ears, different skin tones, and different face. Highmountain Tauren have very visible antlers that you can see at all times. What's the common factor with all of these guys? You can easily tell them apart from their counterparts. Can't do that with High Elves.

Started with a lie and then you ended with literally describing how they could have done it with High Elves and then claim you can't do it. Good job. And honestly, nightborne skintone is far closer to the Night Elves ... so you really shouldn't bring that up as it weakens the rest of your argument.

You don't need to get a good look at them because they look so different. That's the entire point of it. If you have to get an up close look at a race to tell it apart from another race then that's bad. That's why skin tones being so drastically different is important. You won't see the eyes if you're not paying that much attention, but you sure as hell will see if an Orc has fel green skin or not.

This is just evidence you don't understand how the human mind works. Quick glances and not focusing on it will put your mind into where you are most comfortable, not what is truth. You seem to think you will clearly see the Orc is brown or the Orc is green in all cases especially when skin is exposed .. but that's just isn't how the mind works.

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Ok, fair point. But now the developers have drawn a line in the sand, and made it clear that this is a line they don't want to cross.

So? Doesn't mean it won't be crossed and doesn't mean their reasons are sound for not wanting to cross it.

Yes, atheistically they fit the horde much better than the alliance at the time they were introduced. Then we were introduced to their background and they were given context that made them a perfect fit for the Alliance. Blood Elves were the same for horde.

Which is the point I am making. Faction identity is an evolving thing, not static. It can change and most likely will change because it already has changed.

Why? Because you don't like it? Ion slammed the door shut on High Elves for alliance.

Yes, he slammed it shut by deliberately leaving it open.

Ion has stated the developer beliefs as to why this would be bad for the health of the game, many posters have argued passionately about why it would be bad for the game. Your entire argument to date has been, Ion is wrong because I say so, Anti-Helfers are wrong because I say so, the developers have broken faction rules before so they should always continue to do so, because I say so. Everyone is stupid and dishonest because I say so. *golf clap*

Ion's belief isn't fact. Those posters belief isn't fact. I have never claimed Ion is wrong, I have claimed his reasons are bullshit which I then went to explain they aren't sound. His logic is valid (meaning it follows if the premise is true) but they aren't. People are dishonest when they answer a question in a manner I know no one thinks like to maintain their illusion their argument is better.

A total failure to refute his point. And you flame this poster to boot.

Why should I put more effort in than your side is willing to do?

Why? Because you say so? Are you capable of making a more compelling argument than "because I say so"?

Because it assumes that people ONLY play Blood Elves because they want to be Fair Skinned elves and no other trait the Horde possesses. I play Blood Elf because I like being a civilized race among savages ... I can't get that with the Alliance. There are other reasons people choose the faction they choose ... hell, it could be as simple as they like the faction armor choices. Horde gets more red armor than the Alliance and Alliance gets more blue armor.

Again, Why? Because you say so? And now you're being dishonest. This argument won't ever end until Blizzard either add High Elves for alliance exactly as they are in game currently, or until they say a firm, no, never going to happen. Which in my opinion they have just done in a nice way, so as not to hurt peoples feelings (but I guess I'm wrong about that because you say so, amirite?)

Because one of the complaints is clear. If they could pretend, people are more likely to be quiet or be willing to accept it's a compromise. One of the turn off of Void Elves is the fact they are all purple ... they gave us 2 more purple elves in BfA. Would it have really kill them to give a purple fair skinned option? No.

[Ithekro]

This argument won't ever end until Blizzard either add High Elves for alliance exactly as they are in game currently, or until they say a firm, no, never going to happen. Which in my opinion they have just done in a nice way, so as not to hurt peoples feelings (but I guess I'm wrong about that because you say so, amirite?)

No, the arguments end when Blizzard finally does something with their damn High Elf dangling thread. It almost stupidly Chekov's Gun level of dangling thread now. Their inclusion needs to be meaningful rather than Blizzard dangling them about and going "Here look, High Elves! Pretty cool, eh. No you can't play them, don't be silly. That's what the Horde is for (lol). But we're going to show you High Elves anyway....just cause, reasons". It has gotten old and very annoying. Do something with them. Playable, death, make them epic, whatever....but if you are going to just put them there and do nothing with them....why even have them around? At this point, it seem to be to piss off the players more than anything else. It gets both sides fired up with "oh maybe this time they will be playable" or "Stop wanting my core Horde race, peasants". Its gotten predictable and old. This has been going on, for a decade with the Blood Eves in the game, and longer before they were added as playable.

What's the phrase? "Shit or get off the pot, Blizzard." You created this mess and somehow expect people to not want to play High Elves? Are you that unaware? "There playable as the Horde", No. Just no. You've placed High Elves in the Alliance for over a decade of World of Warcraft, and along with Blood Elves for less time than that, and now Void Elves for the last few months. No, that doesn't work as a response, and never could because you let the High Elves in the Alliance and have teased the players with them since 2004. Do something with them already.

Blizzard had a very good opportunity to end it with Void Elves, and managed to fail horribly with it. And I'm not talking skin color or eyes.....I'm talking lore. The Void Elves could have easily have been written to be the High Elves people had wanted, zapped by a Void bomb or forced to go with Alleria into the Void to escape the Legion, and it effects them because pretty much every magic thing seems to effect elves in some way. But no...Blood Elf experimenting with the Void is what was presented. That's not even a compromise by placing High Elves into a situation that changes them....that just tosses the whole concept away for a model...and that's not the point. It was never the point. Void Elves fail because they aren't the Alliance's High Elves corrupted by the Void.....they are Blood Elves....freshly from the Horde, corrupted by the Void, than switch sides due to it happening. That is an epic failure of the meaning of compromise. Over a damned model that people were fine changing if they could get their Alliance High Elves as playable. Be it mutants, tattoos, human based models, night elf based models, whatever, as long as they could got that lore group that has been teased at and shown in game since World of Warcraft launched. And Blizzard failed to understand that when it made the Void Elves.


So, because of that, this debate doesn't end. Not because Blizzard says High Elves aren't happening. But because they need to own up to their own damned story treads and understand what compromise was requested, that they completely blew when they didn't need to blow it. Void Elves, as they are look, right now, would have worked, had they backed it up with a proper story making those the High Elves we'd been seeing for years. But they aren't. So Blizzard failed. And its their own fault this is still going on.

[Eazy]

There are no reason why Blizzard shouldn't add them in the game, seriously.

[Byleth]

So? Doesn't mean it won't be crossed and doesn't mean their reasons are sound for not wanting to cross it.

Blizz's reasons aren't sound "because I say so". No context, not a rebuttal. Fail.

Which is the point I am making. Faction identity is an evolving thing, not static. It can change and most likely will change because it already has changed.

And I'm saying it's less likely too, because Ion said so on behalf of the developers last week.

Yes, he slammed it shut by deliberately leaving it open.

I'm saying he slammed did shut because of the many reasons he gave (outlined a few pages back in Protip's excellent rebuttal of your argument), and he just left a spark of hope to make the let down easier for fans. I acknowledge that this is my opinion, but my opinion is supported by facts and context.

Your opinion (because it is one), is literally - Ion left the door open intentionally, HIGH ELVES DEF COMING GUYS!

Ion's belief isn't fact. Those posters belief isn't fact. I have never claimed Ion is wrong, I have claimed his reasons are bullshit which I then went to explain they aren't sound. His logic is valid (meaning it follows if the premise is true) but they aren't. People are dishonest when they answer a question in a manner I know no one thinks like to maintain their illusion their argument is better.

Except in a World of Warcraft context, Ion's opinion is absolutely fact. As head developer and speaking on behalf of the team. What he says is what the team thinks, believes and will act on.

Also, Ion's reasons are wrong "because I say so" - Again, a totally failure to make any kind of valid argument.

Why should I put more effort in than your side is willing to do?

ROFL. Anti-Helfers putting in no effort "because I say so" - Fail again.

Because it assumes that people ONLY play Blood Elves because they want to be Fair Skinned elves and no other trait the Horde possesses. I play Blood Elf because I like being a civilized race among savages ... I can't get that with the Alliance. There are other reasons people choose the faction they choose ... hell, it could be as simple as they like the faction armor choices. Horde gets more red armor than the Alliance and Alliance gets more blue armor.

This is actually a reasonable point that I agree with. See what making a proper argument can do?

Still though, the solution is not High Elves.

Because one of the complaints is clear. If they could pretend, people are more likely to be quiet or be willing to accept it's a compromise. One of the turn off of Void Elves is the fact they are all purple ... they gave us 2 more purple elves in BfA. Would it have really kill them to give a purple fair skinned option? No.

I'm not against a fairer skinned option for V Elves. If it makes people happier, why not?

- - - Updated - - -

*snip*

So basically exactly what I said, only with a lot more words and anger.

Don't mansplain me.

[Ithekro]

There are no reason why Blizzard shouldn't add them in the game, seriously.

Of course they not, They are already in the game. On both sides. Blizzard just keep not finishing their damned High Elf storyline and has basically gotten to the point were they are teasing players about it and epically failing to end the issue when they introduced Void Elves, which was the perfect time to end this, but instead added another group of Blood Elves that no one asked for, when they could have used the High Elves people did ask for, and they would have looked exactly like Void Elves look right now, just with better lore and a good rebuttal to people wanting playable normal looking , blue eyed, High Elves. Instead the epically failed to understand, or have more story planned, and still aren't getting the point.

- - - Updated - - -

So basically exactly what I said, only with a lot more words and anger.

Don't mansplain me.

It isn't. You said add them or giving a firm no will end it. The second one doesn't end the problem because it fails on the storytelling point, which is part of the reason there is a game. A firm no requires not a reason, but a conclusion to the story that makes the no make sense, because without said conclusion, everyone knows that a hard no will do nothing to stop threads like this from being made....honestly, everyone knows that, right?

As long as the High Elves are in the game and in the Alliance, people will ask to play them, regardless of a firm NO from BLizzard or not. Because its a tease, and it has always been a tease. Its only worse than ogres and forest trolls because their is a playable version of them (two now) that don't fulfill the need the players have because there are still High Elves in the Alliance that do stuff in various story arcs, rather than just a small group of mobs that might give you quests in a leveling zone, and maybe have a mob or two standing around in some random city. Instead we have High Elves in various expansions End Game content, were they will be seen, a lot, by Alliance players doing said End Game content. Thus frustration sets in even if the players are given a Hard No....because it becomes a tease. A blatant tease.

[Futhark]

Here's a crazy thought, what if they retconned the Silver Covenant to actually be members of the Blue Dragonflight that prefer to take High Elven forms? It's what Malygos did:



This way, they can have Kalecgos as their leader, they'd have a cool twist so they're not just a reskin, and maybe they can even assume a drakonid form in combat like the Worgen. This just seems to check off so many boxes for what people want without conceding the point that "high elves are blood elves".

[Byleth]

It isn't. You said add them of gives a firm no will end it. The second one doesn't end the problem because it fails on the storytelling point, which is part of the reason there is a game. A firm no requires not a reason, but a conclusion to the story that makes the no make sense, because without said conclusion, everyone knows that a hard no will do nothing to stop threads like this from being made....honestly, everyone knows that, right?

As long as the High Elves are in the game and in the Alliance, people will ask to play them, regardless of a firm NO from BLizzard or not. Because its a tease, and it has always been a tease. Its only worse than ogres and forest trolls because their is a playable version of them (two now) that don't fulfill the need the players have because their are still High Elves in the Alliance that do stuff in various story arcs, rather than just a small group of mobs that might give you quests in a leveling zone, and maybe have a mob or two standing around in some random city. Instead we have High Elves in various expansions End Game content, were they will be seen, a lot, by Alliance players doing said End Game content. Thus frustration sets in even if the players are given a Hard No....because it becomes a tease. A blatant tease.

Yeah ok, that's much clearer. I agree, this shit needs some resolution.

Personally, I totally accept the too few High Elves explanation, and that's enough for me. But I do acknowledge that those "too few" high elves sure do get around.

Oh! Maybe they could fix this by literally naming every High Elf NPC in game! Maybe if we saw that it was just the same 5-10 peeps at the front line of everything it'd help?