Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Deleted]

Things Blizz could do: copy/paste HE with blue eyes for alliance - problem that it blurs races in different factions.
Change their animations/idle - problem because blood elves players will uproar from far and wide, they have priority cuz they played them for 10 years or so and will cry that it looks better than theirs
Add customization - problem as mentioned before(with BE players).
Either way they should create something new with fair skin and blonde hair rather than trying to please HE players. You gotta understand that.

[Kithelle]

I’m offended that he’s told you no more than once but you cover your ears and say that what the game director says isn’t true or good enough for you.

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I 100% support this. End this Helf discussion once and for all. Would be great for sin’dorei lore too

But that just wont do because Ion loves using it to troll the Alliance but can't be bothered to actually add it into game.

There just wouldn't be as many people to troll because me and some others would make a blue eyed Belf.

[Obelisk Kai]

Not necessarily but tbh I don't give as huge a damn anymore I just wanted to point out the biggest argument was faction blurring which is now a moot excuse as its alrdy blurred. Also Congratulations to you too!.

For someone who has on multiple times told us how she is done with the topic, you do seem to come back here with astonishing regularity. I am assuming of course that the reason you haven't been here for the past week and a half was due to your ban and that it likely expired today which I assume means you rushed back. Would have been interesting to see your reaction to Ion's restatement of the obvious thursday week ago.

As for your claim that the faction boundary is blurred, to a degree unfortunately yes, but it is not broken. Because the model isn't the point, is it? If it was you wouldn't be complaining about Void Elves.

Nope, it's the theme and fantasy of being a High Elf, which Ion Hazzikostas acknowledged on behalf of the WoW development team belongs to the Horde, that is real sticking point. If a Void Elf isn't good enough on those grounds, Ion has a solution.

'The Horde is there for you'.

[KrakHed]

Just like those Orc players that want to play Mag'har! Yeah they can just pretend and cover u- oh no wait they don't have to since Horde doesn't have any compromises when it comes to their Allied Races.

It's not about compromise. They already had Orcs and got variant of Orcs with different skins. The Alliance doesn't have High Elves in the first place. Night Elves already have pinker skin tones if that's the kind of thing you're looking for.

[Deleted]

Then why was it perfectly fine to do it for Night Elf players who have potentially been night elves longer than the blood elf players? Double standards?

Yes double standards because horde players pay extra dollar every month so they can get all the goodies
Night elves/blood elves got same treatment with Nightborne and Void elves, I don't see double standards but imagine if Blizzard adds another night elf like race with cool eyebrows and animations. Now that would be double standards from night elves players pov.

[Obelisk Kai]

Actually I've been moving house, and for people who claim to want nothing to do with high elves you spend an awfully lot of time in the "High Elf Discussion" thread hmmmm pot kettle methinks.

How is it a case of pot and kettles Kaira? I've never denied I frequent this topic, nor declared 'I am done with this and I no longer care'.

[FlubberPuddy]

It's not about compromise. They already had Orcs and got variant of Orcs with different skins. The Alliance doesn't have High Elves in the first place. Night Elves already have pinker skin tones if that's the kind of thing you're looking for.

Cool so now that Alliance has Void Elves we can ask for a separate race of "Void Elves" idk let's see what we can call em, maybe just High Elves and pinker tones so it works out just like Mag'har Orcs and Green Orcs then. Thanks for pointing that out!

[Obelisk Kai]

You literally have a comeback for absolute "everything" don't you, why are you here it's not to discuss High Elves but to tell people not to bother because you don't think its worth it, we got our answer but we are still free to discuss what we like but please tell me what do you get out of constantly telling people "Ion said no Hurr durr!"?

I have a comeback for everything because I have strong arguments. And I have strong arguments because I use facts and not desire as the basis for those arguments.

If you want a safe space to discuss playable High Elves without being reminded of the slightly inconvenient fact that it isn't going to happen, you have your discord for that.

This is not just a topic for debating how High Elves will look, what role they'll play in the story, what hairstyles you would like, what tattoos they could have or what name you will give your High Elf.

This was primarily a topic about whether or not they should be playable. I say 'was' because the debate ended, Ion did in fact say no and that is as final as you can get.

Now the topic is primarily about arguing whether 'anything can happen' was a platitude (spoiler, it is) or a super sly wink at the audience letting them know that despite listing all the problems with playable High Elves and why they'd be bad for the game, they are still totally possible at some future point.

[Ithekro]

For someone who has on multiple times told us how she is done with the topic, you do seem to come back here with astonishing regularity. I am assuming of course that the reason you haven't been here for the past week and a half was due to your ban and that it likely expired today which I assume means you rushed back. Would have been interesting to see your reaction to Ion's restatement of the obvious thursday week ago.

As for your claim that the faction boundary is blurred, to a degree unfortunately yes, but it is not broken. Because the model isn't the point, is it? If it was you wouldn't be complaining about Void Elves.

Nope, it's the theme and fantasy of being a High Elf, which Ion Hazzikostas acknowledged on behalf of the WoW development team belongs to the Horde, that is real sticking point. If a Void Elf isn't good enough on those grounds, Ion has a solution.

'The Horde is there for you'.

Your self satisfaction is misplaced. Blizzard gave you the middle finger just as much as they did the Alliance players.

How you might ask? Void Elves. What are they? Oh right, they've Blood Elves aren't they. Blood Elves that crossed the faction line that didn't need to be crossed, because the Alliance already has High Elves that could have been used instead to make Void Elves. But Blizzard didn't do that did they? No. They screwed your faction wall just as much as they screwed the Alliances lore reasoning for Void Elves to have been High Elves and gave both sides something they didn't want to happen. Your faction wall was broken the day Void Elves entered the game. And that didn't have to happen. The High Elves could have been the ones to make that Void change in their unlock quest chain....but no. Blood Elves.

You got screwed too, so don't be so smug about this. "The Horde is there for you" is a lie and you know it.

[Darththeo]

You're delusional if you're using paladins and shamans to High Elves. They had a very compelling gameplay reason to give the classes to both sides. Could you imagine how imbalanced TBC would've been if only the Horde had Bloodlust? They didn't want to make the classes similar so they decided to just give them to both sides to prevent one faction from having an advantage. What advantage does the Horde currently have because the Alliance doesn't have High Elves?

You are assuming the only ways of balancing classes is to give the same classes ... naive, and I am the one delusional?

You need a unique look that you can easily identify at a glance. Not a unique look that you need to study the character's face to tell what they are. Also High Elves and Blood Elves are BASICALLY IDENTICAL. Literally the only difference is their eye colors. They more like two different names for the same race. Blood Elves are High Elves that changed their name and swore vengeance and then had their eyes changed to green due to exposure to fel magic.

You contradict yourself and show that you think too simplistic.

What's a lie and what could be done with High Elves? High Elves are Blood Elves with a different eye color. They looks exactly like each other. You can't change their skin color or give them glow in the dark hair. Nightborne skin colors aren't remotely like a Night Elf. Seriously you need to get your eyes checked. The closest thing they have is their grayish white skin compared to Night Elf pale skin tinted blue. Their other skin colors don't like anything like Night Elf skin colors. Even then you still have a different posture and different ears. So no it doesn't weaken my argument.

So you can't tell someone's skin color IRL with a quick glance?

You literally are listing reasons and stating "What could be done?" do you even read what you are typing or have you already decided you won so you don't care to actually pause to listen to yourself?

[Obelisk Kai]

Your self satisfaction is misplaced. Blizzard gave you the middle finger just as much as they did the Alliance players.

How you might ask? Void Elves. What are they? Oh right, they've Blood Elves aren't they. Blood Elves that crossed the faction line that didn't need to be crossed, because the Alliance already has High Elves that could have been used instead to make Void Elves. But Blizzard didn't do that did they? No. They screwed your faction wall just as much as they screwed the Alliances lore reasoning for Void Elves to have been High Elves and gave both sides something they didn't want to happen. Your faction wall was broken the day Void Elves entered the game. And that didn't have to happen. The High Elves could have been the ones to make that Void change in their unlock quest chain....but no. Blood Elves.

You got screwed too, so don't be so smug about this. "The Horde is there for you" is a lie and you know it.

Sorry but trying to peddle your personal interpretation of the defeat of the playable High Elf movement as a loss for my own point of view is ridiculous.

Void Elves are former Blood Elves transformed by the power of the void. As a result, everything that defines a Blood/High Elf as a Blood/High Elf has been stripped from the Void Elves.

The devotion to the light. The lore of being heirs to the legacy of Quel'thalas. And lest we forget, not that the clamour on the forums would let us, the 'fair' skin tones.

As for the minor distinction that it was Blood Elves and not High Elves who underwent the transformation, have you not been paying attention?

I consider Blood Elves and High Elves the same. In my mind (and the developers' too it seems) they are completely interchangeable beyond political allegiance.

So I don't consider the faction wall broken. The Void Elves crossed it, but before they did so they abandoned everything that made them Blood/High Elves.

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So basically you're telling me you're a waste of time to even acknowledge and you want to push you "I told you so agenda" very mature /noted, Thanks for your time but I think its best we stop we won't get anywhere and I can't really be arsed with you anymore because your arnt using arguments you are using finger in ear lalala tactics.

In my defense I believe it a more honourable approach than, say, trying to get a bunch of people on your Discord to mass report anyone who disagreed with you on various forums in an attempt to get them banned.

[Arrashi]

But that just wont do because Ion loves using it to troll the Alliance but can't be bothered to actually add it into game.

There just wouldn't be as many people to troll because me and some others would make a blue eyed Belf.

Yes there clearly is a long going and deep reaching conspiracy to "troll" all high elf fans. All 37 of them.

[Obelisk Kai]

In my own defense I have never advocated not participated in any of that so branding us all with the same brush is silly and tbh I've not witnessed any of it personally but I don't read all the chat because you know I've got better things to do than hang around in chat rooms and forums ALL DAY.

Everyone has better things to do than hang around in chat rooms and forums all day. You persistently bring that up as a cheap shot, anyone who spends time here is wasting their time whereas you only deign to grace us with your presence every so often, taking time out of a vastly more interesting life to speak with us.

If you truly feel that way why do you bother posting? You are wasting your valuable time amongst us nerds.

[FlubberPuddy]

Sorry but trying to peddle your personal interpretation of the defeat of the playable High Elf movement as a loss for my own point of view is ridiculous.

Void Elves are former Blood Elves transformed by the power of the void. As a result, everything that defines a Blood/High Elf as a Blood/High Elf has been stripped from the Void Elves.

The devotion to the light. The lore of being heirs to the legacy of Quel'thalas. And lest we forget, not that the clamour on the forums would let us, the 'fair' skin tones.

As for the minor distinction that it was Blood Elves and not High Elves who underwent the transformation, have you not been paying attention?

I consider Blood Elves and High Elves the same. In my mind (and the developers' too it seems) they are completely interchangeable beyond political allegiance.

So I don't consider the faction wall broken. The Void Elves crossed it, but before they did so they abandoned everything that made them Blood/High Elves.

High Elves on Alliance don't carry as strict devotion to the Light (at least as far as what's easily see-able for their culture) as Blood Elves do, so that's the same distinction that you say Void Elves don't carry either.

High Elves also don't consider themselves "heirs to legacy of Quel'thalas" either as evidenced by choosing their friends over their family, tons of media explaining that Dalaran High Elves were pretty much considered a diff society by Quel'thalassian dwellers and even so far as depictions of Kael'thas - the PRINCE of HIS PEOPLE - being concerned of being looked down upon for spending so much time with humans, Vereesa herself who was apparently made fun of because of her love for humans etc etc. So...that's another distinction that High Elves have that you say Void Elves don't have either?

But really let's get to the main point of all this the "fair skin tones" which is really what you're wearing around like a badge of honor and given the circumstances.

And if you consider Blood Elves and High Elves the same, and know that High Elves are there on Alliance, faction-aligned with them. Then that means @Ithekro was correct in saying it completely avoids the fabricated faction wall break in the first place.

[FlubberPuddy]

I have a comeback for everything because I have strong arguments. And I have strong arguments because I use facts and not desire as the basis for those arguments.

-Says has a comeback for everything-

-Has continually ignored my comments in response to his own-

Obelisk Kai put me on ignore or just ignoring my statements?

[Ithekro]

So I don't consider the faction wall broken. The Void Elves crossed it, but before they did so they abandoned everything that made them Blood/High Elves.

Than you have deluded yourself in this false victory.

Nothing in your idea of a faction wall is faction based. Just species based, which is not the point of a faction wall. Thus you have completely and utterly missed the point of the argument, and have since the very start. Thus you haven't even noticed your own loss in this matter because you don't even see the faction wall for what it is....political. That's the entire point of the factions...the Horde and the Alliance. Political issues. The species have all worked together before just fine. It is the faction rivalry that drives the wars.

[Darththeo]

Blizz's reasons aren't sound "because I say so". No context, not a rebuttal. Fail.

I have rebutted it and gotten "Doesn't Count" as the rebuttal of the point or others things that are literally "Nope, not good enough" without explanation. For example, people have stated Pandaren were a failure when nothing official outside of a single Ghostcrawler tweet supports that. The question was directed at him and part he answered in plural ... anything there is pure assumption.

And I'm saying it's less likely too, because Ion said so on behalf of the developers last week.

Words vs History ... what's should be more of a focus? If past action have lead to it being changed, words should trump action until they prove it.

I'm saying he slammed did shut because of the many reasons he gave (outlined a few pages back in Protip's excellent rebuttal of your argument), and he just left a spark of hope to make the let down easier for fans. I acknowledge that this is my opinion, but my opinion is supported by facts and context.

That's not how you let people down and facts yes context no. You can't assert context because it doesn't support you.

Your opinion (because it is one), is literally - Ion left the door open intentionally, HIGH ELVES DEF COMING GUYS!

No, he left it open intentionally because Ion knows that they may at some point make High Elves playable. Unlike you, I am not assuming an absolute.

Except in a World of Warcraft context, Ion's opinion is absolutely fact. As head developer and speaking on behalf of the team. What he says is what the team thinks, believes and will act on.

Also, Ion's reasons are wrong "because I say so" - Again, a totally failure to make any kind of valid argument.

Again, I am saying they aren't sound because they contradict how things have been done ... you need to stop borderline strawmanning what I am saying. And I am sorry, there is no context EVER where someone's opinion or belief is fact ... I am a Star Wars fan and when Lucas said something factually wrong about Star Wars as his view he was still wrong. There are numerous examples of leads being wrong in places ... just because you accept it doesn't make it a fact outside of the fact it is Ion's stance at this time.

ROFL. Anti-Helfers putting in no effort "because I say so" - Fail again.

Your posts are proof if you require evidence.

This is actually a reasonable point that I agree with. See what making a proper argument can do?

Still though, the solution is not High Elves.

Not saying the Solution is High Elves. Here I am going to bold this for you because you seem not to have read it: I am not arguing for playable High Elves, I am arguing against bad arguments against them. I don't care if they become playable, but I do care when someone makes a statement like "Ion slammed the door shut! No High Elves ever!"

[Goldielocks]

Yes because we don't want to upset all 4 or 5 Horde fans now do we? /s :P

lol because all anti HElfers are synonymous with Horde. That makes perfect sense.

I do care when someone makes a statement like "Ion slammed the door shut! No High Elves ever!"

Obviously it is incorrect to say that there is no possibility for High Elves, but Blizzard has kept their stance on this for a very, very long time. The odds are against High Elves. Quite against them, indeed.

[FlubberPuddy]

Yes there clearly is a long going and deep reaching conspiracy to "troll" all high elf fans. All 37 of them.

Lore himself referred to the High Elf question as a popular one but yeah sure act like it's just a minority, even though both him and Ion even acknowledged the "amount of hate mail" he's going to receive

I find it funny that people still trot around the "HE fans are a vocal minority" I guess it depends how much of a minority you define, since GCD change peeps can be considered a minority too. WoW itself is made up of a bunch of minorities so yeh

[FlubberPuddy]

Also on that note the comment on the Void Elves abandoning everything that makes them Blood Elves is wrong and recently a screenshot has surfaced of Magister Umbric acting like a Blood Elf and bitching about the heat and wasting his time.

Yup, they have the exact same culture as Blood Elves because they were all Blood Elves up until being turned by the Nether Prince.

They just are focused on the Void instead of the Light, tis really the only major difference