Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[KyrtF]

I still think the evidence points at t/quoyehe skeleton not being the issue. All allied races so far have reused skeletons, so based on the facts, it seems like a moot point.

However, it's obvious you think I'm avoiding the question, so I'll answer as best I can. For me, if a new model was built off the Blood Elf skeleton, that would work. I personally would not be satisfied with a model built off other skeletons because Blood Elves and High Elves are biologically the same race except for the fel corruption. High Elves are supposed to be pure, which is the point. They shouldn't be mutated into something else.

That being said, I think the wider gaming audience would accept a model built off the human or night elf skeleton. It could work if done right. The night elf skeleton would need to be shrunk shorter (the Zandalari off the Night Elf skeleton were scaled up). As a side note, with Night Fallen and Zandalari, the Horde will have more races with the night elf skeleton than the Alliance, so I still think this is a non issue. If a model was built off the human skeleton, it would need to be slimmed down to look like a high elf, and I think people would be accepting of that.

Hope that answers your question.

First....a model based off a Blood Elf model is still the Blood Elf model.
Second...your retreat to biology is silly. Zandalari are trolls but they have a diffetent model. Draenor Orcs are still Orcs...Highmountain Tauren are still Tauren. Void Elfs are still Blood Elfs. KulTirans are still human.

Having identical biology does not preclude having different models.

And as I said before, the issue wouldn't be just the skeleton but the entire package. The model, the culture, the history, the look and more.

All a High Elf model need be is be recognizable as a High Elf. Nozdormu is not based upon a Blood Elf skeleton nor are the San'layn Princes. All are still recognisable as High Elfs

So...if Blizzard added High Elfs in the manner I suggested, or some other fashion which worked to create a different identity for them, would you play them?

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So, it looks like the Blue Dragon alliance stuff didn't catch traction.

If Blizzard were to do anything with Dragons, I'd suggest they add Drakonids to the Alliance.

That way, I can get my Naga.

[Fyersing]

If they had wanted to give the Alliance a High Elf, they would have without changing the skin colour. The skin colour change is half the point.

I feel obligated to re-iterate that those individuals who were/are proponents of playable High Elves, from a narrative perspective, have largely understood and agreed with what you just said for years -- the predominating assumption being that Blizzard wasn't (and still isn't) likely to "clone" any of their current races as it would be perceived as lazy and, potentially, hazardous to faction balance.

The point being that wanting playable High Elves and wanting playable High Elves in the visual style of the Silver Covenant aren't the same thing; in fact, I'd wager that this issue would've largely died off following Void Elves if the foundational stock for the group was the Silver Covenant instead of a group of exiled Blood Elves. The crux of the issue is that Blizzard tried to meet fans in the middle (between existing High Elves and existing Blood Elves), by giving them a group of physiologically altered Blood Elves -- they quite literally have no relation to the HE's at all, which is odd.

NOTE: My position remains that High Elves should be integrated into the Void Elves retinue, forcibly if necessary. This would "kill" the concept of playable High Elves in their present physiological forms (thus, cementing Blood Elves as the true political and cultural successors to the Kingdom of Quel'thalas), while simultaneously allowing for the Alliance to continue the storylines which have been proliferated throughout their narrative for the last decade -- as High Elves, who've integrated into the Void Elves.

[Traycor]

So...if Blizzard added High Elfs in the manner I suggested, or some other fashion which worked to create a different identity for them, would you play them?

Would I play them? Oh, absolutely. As long as they aren't mutated and are still High Elves (not interested in Void Elf).

I'm an animator, so the skeleton is a huge issue for me. A night elf skeleton high elf would always look like a night elf to me. It would always be an annoyance. Just like a Zandalari looks like a night elf to me. But you can absolutely make a new model off the blood elf skeleton. There's no debating that. It 100% can be done. Zandalari are not just a new texture on Night Elves. Modeling work was done.

It seems like what you actually want to be exclusive to the Blood Elf is the animations. Would that be correct?

[KyrtF]

In order to justify playable High Elves you have to make them extraordinary, Mary Sues the lot of them.

Stuff and nonsense, me lad. The only thing you need to make High Elfs playable is the actual decision to do so. The only possible concern is that somehow, for somr reason, Blizzard thinks Alliance High Elfs would somehow step on the toes of Blood Elfs faction identity....and then decided to give the Alliance Void Elfs anyway.

If Void Elfs can be made acceptable through minor changes, then the same can be done for High Elfs.

Yeah but now we've crossed into the absurd. I mean time travelling to the Scourge invasion to save Elves.

My idea I believe. Some folk are keen to argue that High Elfs have too few people to support a faction. This despite the addition of Void Elfs and the like.

There are other ways to address the issue...of which I listed one. Primarily because it struck me as a fun questline.

As for the points you raise...you over think things in your rush to denounce. Assume whatever needs to happen on the background happens and this is your part in this story.



If you don't like that story...there are others that can be used. Right now, I'm sick to the gills of this entire High Elf business. If I thought your suggestion of killing them off would work, I'd go for it but you know and I know Alliance players would simply start throwing in time travel and alternate universes and the like.

If the only way to get this debate to end is to give the Alliance High Elfs, then so be it. It can't hurt any more than giving them.Void Elfs

[lordsesho]

I feel obligated to re-iterate that those individuals who were/are proponents of playable High Elves, from a narrative perspective, have largely understood and agreed with what you just said for years -- the predominating assumption being that Blizzard wasn't (and still isn't) likely to "clone" any of their current races as it would be perceived as lazy and, potentially, hazardous to faction balance.

The point being that wanting playable High Elves and wanting playable High Elves in the visual style of the Silver Covenant aren't the same thing; in fact, I'd wager that this issue would've largely died off following Void Elves if the foundational stock for the group was the Silver Covenant instead of a group of exiled Blood Elves. The crux of the issue is that Blizzard tried to meet fans in the middle (between existing High Elves and existing Blood Elves), by giving them a group of physiologically altered Blood Elves -- they quite literally have no relation to the HE's at all, which is odd.

NOTE: My position remains that High Elves should be integrated into the Void Elves retinue, forcibly if necessary. This would "kill" the concept of playable High Elves in their present physiological forms (thus, cementing Blood Elves as the true political and cultural successors to the Kingdom of Quel'thalas), while simultaneously allowing for the Alliance to continue the storylines which have been proliferated throughout their narrative for the last decade -- as High Elves, who've integrated into the Void Elves.

But High Elves are already in telogrus rift:


the only other thing they can do is kill silver covenant

[KyrtF]

Would I play them? Oh, absolutely. As long as they aren't mutated and are still High Elves (not interested in Void Elf).

No. Mutants? No.
They'd simply use another model to diffetentiate between Blood and High Elves. Just as the Highmountain model is diffete t...just as tbe Zandalari model is different.

Maybe Blizzard would be OK...but I don't think so. I can understand the desire to have and explore the High Elfs because I understand the concept of faction identity.

Its why I would never want to play a High Elf. I don't want Blue Eyes or Yellow...Green is the colour for me.

But if all that changes is the eye colour, you essentially turn Blood Elfs onto a neutral race. I think thats ridiculous, but other than Blizzard simply holding the High Elfs back put of sheer spite, its the only explanation why they didn't give the Alliance High Elfs. Its the one thing you were asking for...the one thing you've wanted since Vanilla and while BgA reads like a checklist of features the Horde wanted, you still didn't get High Elfs.

If that supposition is true.....while I think it silly...then the simple truth is you will not get High Elfs unless changes are made. Void Elfs at least have Voidform to look forward to but that isn't going to be feasible for High Elfs.

And that leaves a tweaked Night Elf skeleton...and other changes...as tne most viable options.

It seems like what you actually want to be exclusive to the Blood Elf is the animations. Would that be correct?

Personally? No. Animations and skeleton. I didn't want to share at all. I've never had any objection to the concept of Alliance High Elfs...I just didn't want to share the model.

[Fyersing]

But High Elves are already in telogrus rift:

the only other thing they can do is kill silver covenant

Right, but the player character (when playing Void Elf) isn't currently related them within the narrative.

A fairly simply solution, which would assuage concerns on both sides of the discussion, would be for Blizzard to iterate that there are two avenues by whicih someone becomes a Void Elf:

1) You were one Umbric's followers. It could be canonically recognized that these individuals have been most affected, morphologically, by the Void -- all of these individuals showing visible signs of Void-infusion (i.e. Void-infused pigmentation(s), Void-based tendrils in the hair, etc.).

2) You were one of Vereesa's followers, who embedded themselves with the above group shortly after their alteration(s) occur. These might be canonically recognized as those individuals who have been least affected by the Void (having not been present for the "Void-ification" seen in the introductory scenario) -- these individuals showing visible signs of excessive use of the Void (i.e. pale, sickly looking pigmentation(s), lack of Void-based tendrils, etc.).

They needn't add anything new, texture-wise, at all. (Edit: Though, why they don't have Void-infused eyes is beyond me. Blizzard, make it happen.) It's merely narrative recognition, and it would appease a great many who want HE's and further distinguish VE's from BE's in a political and narrative sense.

[RangerDaz]

I honestly don't like the scars and the whole druid concept, but those hairstyles look nice. Grats!
The body tattoos could also have more artistic alternatives or more ranger designs as well.

[Obelisk Kai]

I feel obligated to re-iterate that those individuals who were/are proponents of playable High Elves, from a narrative perspective, have largely understood and agreed with what you just said for years -- the predominating assumption being that Blizzard wasn't (and still isn't) likely to "clone" any of their current races as it would be perceived as lazy and, potentially, hazardous to faction balance.

The point being that wanting playable High Elves and wanting playable High Elves in the visual style of the Silver Covenant aren't the same thing; in fact, I'd wager that this issue would've largely died off following Void Elves if the foundational stock for the group was the Silver Covenant instead of a group of exiled Blood Elves. The crux of the issue is that Blizzard tried to meet fans in the middle (between existing High Elves and existing Blood Elves), by giving them a group of physiologically altered Blood Elves -- they quite literally have no relation to the HE's at all, which is odd.

NOTE: My position remains that High Elves should be integrated into the Void Elves retinue, forcibly if necessary. This would "kill" the concept of playable High Elves in their present physiological forms (thus, cementing Blood Elves as the true political and cultural successors to the Kingdom of Quel'thalas), while simultaneously allowing for the Alliance to continue the storylines which have been proliferated throughout their narrative for the last decade -- as High Elves, who've integrated into the Void Elves.

It's a reasonable compromise, but I stand by my absolute resistance to giving High Elves who look like Blood Elves to the Alliance.

If you want to play that model with those skin tones, if you want to enjoy that culture and theme, you MUST choose to roll a Horde Blood Elf. The same restrictions as anyone who wants to play an Orc or a Tauren should apply.

The Void Elves have the freedom to be their own thing and that should be exploited. They are the thalassian elf presence on the Alliance, it is they who now occupy any slot that might have previously been marked as 'High Elf'.

Because just as my main question, the one that forever goes unanswered by pro-High Elfers (why would Blizzard go to the bother of creating Void Elves if they were ever going to give the Alliance High Elves)...there is a second one that ALSO goes unanswered.

Why would Blizzard give the Alliance two versions of a thalassian elf and the Horde, where the vast bulk of the race reside, only gets the one?

I feel sometimes we go down rhetorical rabbit holes, of parsing statements and obscure points of lore, when those two simple common sense questions I ask always invite the same obvious answer.

They wouldn't.

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Stuff and nonsense, me lad. The only thing you need to make High Elfs playable is the actual decision to do so. The only possible concern is that somehow, for somr reason, Blizzard thinks Alliance High Elfs would somehow step on the toes of Blood Elfs faction identity....and then decided to give the Alliance Void Elfs anyway.

If Void Elfs can be made acceptable through minor changes, then the same can be done for High Elfs.

I'm going to be blunt. You think the model going cross faction is the end of the debate and that they may as well give the Alliance High Elves now.

This is akin to a person losing a leg and then, because they are never going to walk properly again, insisting on sawing the other one off.

I profoundly disagree with your analysis. Did I want the model to go cross faction? No I didn't. But it did. Yet what went cross faction is NOT a High Elf or a Blood Elf. It looks like them, but it is drained of the essential themes that make a High/Blood Elf what they are.

They are void infested mutants, and that is enough for me to tolerate their existence. An actual High Elf model that Alliance players could pretend is the authentic thalassian would be vastly harder to stomach.

My idea I believe. Some folk are keen to argue that High Elfs have too few people to support a faction.

Some folks meaning the developers who single handedly brought up the point of population and have mentioned it as a factor several times since, even as recently as the 2017 interview between Ion and Jessie.

This despite the addition of Void Elfs and the like.

And yet the still keep mentioning that there are too few High Elves despite years of forum posters going 'but what about the Goblins, they are too few too!'.

Two possible conclusions. Either the remaining High Elves are vastly lower in number than any other group, and if you think THOSE groups are low in population then there really can't be that many High Elves left AND/OR High Elves aren't distinct from Blood Elves and their population renders the point of adding them moot. I figure it's a bit of both.

There are other ways to address the issue...of which I listed one. Primarily because it struck me as a fun questline.

As for the points you raise...you over think things in your rush to denounce. Assume whatever needs to happen on the background happens and this is your part in this story.

And then you have other players, not invested in this debate, who will attack Blizzard for their dumb, stupid writing. More so than normal. My 'overthinking' as you call it brought up multiple reasons why it would undermine suspension of disbelief to go through with it.

If you don't like that story...there are others that can be used. Right now, I'm sick to the gills of this entire High Elf business. If I thought your suggestion of killing them off would work, I'd go for it but you know and I know Alliance players would simply start throwing in time travel and alternate universes and the like.

If the only way to get this debate to end is to give the Alliance High Elfs, then so be it. It can't hurt any more than giving them.Void Elfs

Of course killing them off wouldn't shut this down.

It would make threads like these a lot more tragicomic though.

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You do realize that "brainstorming" means collecting a bunch of different ideas to see what could potentially work? No one is suggesting using ALL of these ideas together. That absolutely would be absurd. Surely you don't think I'm suggesting druidic dragon time-traveling shamans with new models and old models and 20 racial abilities and all the things.

Look I get your passion.

But I stand my belief your passion is misdirected. I would love to see you tackle a race that stands a chance of being added, like Vulpera or Ogres using a modfied Kul Tiran model, I really would.

But I believe playable Alliance High Elves, however presented, undermine the position of the Blood Elves and take away a big selling point from the Horde. Not to mention turning Void Elves into the freakish mutants that nobody would play.

Do you really want to spend the next ten years of playing this game waiting for a race that is never going to come and getting angry at Blizzard for not giving it to you?

There are people out there who have done just that, waiting since vanilla for something Blizzard feels it added in TBC.

It isn't worth the endless wait.

[Traycor]

my main question, the one that forever goes unanswered by pro-High Elfers (why would Blizzard go to the bother of creating Void Elves if they were ever going to give the Alliance High Elves)

The answer should be obvious. They felt like High Elves did not have a theme. "Not being a Blood Elf" is not a theme. The whole point of this thread is to brainstorm new themes for the High Elves that could solve that problem.

Game designers like to design things that have a theme and a goal. Void Elves worked for them because they felt like those characters stood FOR something. "I'm not those guys" is not a theme. As long as High Elves have a theme, Blizz won't mind making them. Everything else is just details.

Potential Themes found here:

1. Ranger Culture: Make their whole culture about military survival and finding ways to push the Alliance forward. Make them extremists who want results and will never compromise. This theme could work with or without arcane classes (but I doubt players would accept high elves without them). Emphasize their alliance with the Wildhammer Dwarves. This theme could work with druids and/or shamans, but druids fit best.

2. Blue Dragon Alliance: The high elves form a pact with the Blue Dragonflight that redefines who they are and what they stand for. This would allow them to keep their arcane themes without stepping on the toes of what blood elves are doing. It would free them of their addiction and would allow their culture to revolve around dragon motifs and ideas. They could serve the Blue Dragonflight, furthering their goals.

3. Roman Motif: This would emphasis the High Elves as warriors and foot soldiers. Roman visuals only, not culture. Think of it as Spartans from 300. They are willing to sacrifice their lives and everything they have to win, no matter what. But is it a lost cause? How desperate are they and how far are they willing to go?

4. Rune Casters, Wardstones, and Shipwrights: These high elves would use ward stones to power their defenses, their ships, and their weapons. This would emphasis their nomadic lifestyle. They have little resources or manpower, so they have tapped into the most powerful magic they had access to and are using it to devastating effect... the consequences could be deadly...

5. ? - I think that's all the themes that have been suggested so far.

[Obelisk Kai]

The answer should be obvious. They felt like High Elves did not have a theme. "Not being a Blood Elf" is not a theme. The whole point of this thread is to brainstorm new themes for the High Elves that could solve that problem.

Game designers like to design things that have a theme and a goal. Void Elves worked for them because they felt like those characters stood FOR something. "I'm not those guys" is not a theme. As long as High Elves have a theme, Blizz won't mind making them. Everything else is just details.

Potential Themes found here:

1. Ranger Culture: Even with the Farstriders, this isn't pushed or used heavily with the blood elves, humans, or night elves. It's a nice area to carve a theme from. Make their whole culture about military survival and finding ways to push the Alliance forward. Make them extremists who want results and will never compromise. This theme could work with or without arcane classes (but I doubt players would accept high elves without them). Emphasize their alliance with the Wildhammer Dwarves. This theme could work with druids and/or shamans, but druids fit best.

2. Blue Dragon Alliance: The high elves form a pact with the Blue Dragonflight that redefines who they are and what they stand for. This would allow them to keep their arcane themes without stepping on the toes of what blood elves are doing. It would free them of their addiction and would allow their culture to revolve around dragon motifs and ideas. They could serve the Blue Dragonflight, furthering their goals.

3. Roman Motif: This would emphasis the High Elves as warriors and foot soldiers. Think of it as Spartans from 300. They are willing to sacrifice their lives and everything they have to win, no matter what. But is it a lost cause? How desperate are they and how far are they willing to go?

4. Rune Casters, Runestones, and Shipwrights: These high elves would use ward stones to power their defenses, their ships, and their weapons. They have little resources or manpower, so they have tapped into the most powerful magic they had access to and are using it to devastating effect... the consequences could be deadly...

5. ? - I think that's all the themes that have been suggested so far.

Well at least you tried to answer. You're wrong of course, but props for trying.

The real answer to my question is of course, THEY WOULDN'T.

[Fyersing]

It's a reasonable compromise, but I stand by my absolute resistance to giving High Elves who look like Blood Elves to the Alliance.

Likewise.

If you want to play that model with those skin tones, if you want to enjoy that culture and theme, you MUST choose to roll a Horde Blood Elf. The same restrictions as anyone who wants to play an Orc or a Tauren should apply.

The Void Elves have the freedom to be their own thing and that should be exploited. They are the thalassian elf presence on the Alliance, it is they who now occupy any slot that might have previously been marked as 'High Elf'.

Entirely agreeable.

Because just as my main question, the one that forever goes unanswered by pro-High Elfers (why would Blizzard go to the bother of creating Void Elves if they were ever going to give the Alliance High Elves)...there is a second one that ALSO goes unanswered.

Why would Blizzard give the Alliance two versions of a thalassian elf and the Horde, where the vast bulk of the race reside, only gets the one?

I feel sometimes we go down rhetorical rabbit holes, of parsing statements and obscure points of lore, when those two simple common sense questions I ask always invite the same obvious answer.

They wouldn't.

I suspect that there are only two potentialities, going forward, for the High Elves:

1) They merge with the Void Elves, as described above, thereby securing a place for themselves within the narrative.
2) They begrudgingly re-attach themselves with the Blood Elves.

The first option respects the last 13 years. The second option doesn't. They're both plausible, in theory, though.

The answer should be obvious. They felt like High Elves did not have a theme. "Not being a Blood Elf" is not a theme. The whole point of this thread is to brainstorm new themes for the High Elves that could solve that problem.

Game designers like to design things that have a theme and a goal. Void Elves worked for them because they felt like those characters stood FOR something. "I'm not those guys" is not a theme. As long as High Elves have a theme, Blizz won't mind making them. Everything else is just details.

Potential Themes found here:

1. Ranger Culture: Make their whole culture about military survival and finding ways to push the Alliance forward. Make them extremists who want results and will never compromise. This theme could work with or without arcane classes (but I doubt players would accept high elves without them). Emphasize their alliance with the Wildhammer Dwarves. This theme could work with druids and/or shamans, but druids fit best.

2. Blue Dragon Alliance: The high elves form a pact with the Blue Dragonflight that redefines who they are and what they stand for. This would allow them to keep their arcane themes without stepping on the toes of what blood elves are doing. It would free them of their addiction and would allow their culture to revolve around dragon motifs and ideas. They could serve the Blue Dragonflight, furthering their goals.

3. Roman Motif: This would emphasis the High Elves as warriors and foot soldiers. Think of it as Spartans from 300. They are willing to sacrifice their lives and everything they have to win, no matter what. But is it a lost cause? How desperate are they and how far are they willing to go?

4. Rune Casters, Wardstones, and Shipwrights: These high elves would use ward stones to power their defenses, their ships, and their weapons. This would emphasis their nomadic lifestyle. They have little resources or manpower, so they have tapped into the most powerful magic they had access to and are using it to devastating effect... the consequences could be deadly...

5. ? - I think that's all the themes that have been suggested so far.

I don't think the solution to an a**pull should be another a**pull.

If they want to flesh-out a concept like this, over the course of an expansion or two, then by all means... but just conceiving of them on a dime (as they did with Void Elves) is the opposite of interesting.

Edit: And, as others have mentioned throughout, some of these examples are simply out-of-touch with the cultural realities that High Elves have been exposed to for years upon years. HE's are divested from the cultural inclination towards ranging, as well as the predilection to utilize wanton amounts of magic (and this reality is part of the reason why people recognize the BE's as being the legitimate successors to historical legacy of Quel'thalas). The other two are far to generic of concepts to entertain reasonably.

The only agreeable concept throughout is that playable HE's would have to, by necessity, become "less High Elven" and "more [Insert Culture]". That has been their struggle and that is perhaps one of the more defining aspects of their narrative, when compared against Blood Elves (who represent everything Quel'thalas is intended to represent).

[Traycor]

I'd wager that this issue would've largely died off following Void Elves if the foundational stock for the group was the Silver Covenant instead of a group of exiled Blood Elves.

One of the major points of High Elves is that they would not corrupt themselves like the Blood Elves. Here is the snipped description from Warcraft 3:

...given in to their hatred and despair and embraced the dark side of their magical natures. Calling themselves 'Blood Elves' - these cold hearted refugees seek to expand their remaining magical powers at any cost - even if it means courting the infernal powers of the Burning Legion! ...the Blood Elves' passions will lead them not only to the highest pinnacles of power, but to the darkest depths of madness.

That's what the High Elves were resisting. Corrupting them into void monsters is diametrically opposed to who the High Elves are. This would not have been satisfactory.

[Lunaprika]

Can you just stop asking for high elves please? Blizzard has already stated they are almost non existent.

[KyrtF]

It's a reasonable compromise, but I stand by my absolute resistance to giving High Elves who look like Blood Elves to the Alliance.

And your absolute resistance is unwarranted, illogical and apparently spitegul, based solely on the idea that you want to deny the Alliance the opportunity to play High Elfs for absolutely no good reason

The Alliance have EVERYTHING of the Blood Elves from the model to the buildings to the language, history and culture. They just can't play High Elfs.

Because just as my main question, the one that forever goes unanswered by pro-High Elfers (why would Blizzard go to the bother of creating Void Elves if they were ever going to give the Alliance High Elves)

Because the Void is going to be the next Burning Legion and just as we had Warlocks to tie us to the Legion and Death Knights to tie us to the Scourge, there will be Void based elements to tie us to the Void.

That possibly means we'll get the Ethereals as our racial link.

Why would Blizzard give the Alliance two versions of a thalassian elf and the Horde, where the vast bulk of the race reside, only gets the one?

Why do you think this is a concern? Why would Blizzard give the Horde a city? Why would Blizzard give the Horde everything its asked for such as straight backed Orcs yet deny the Alliance the one thing or has asked for ...persistently...since before the game launched? Why would Blizzard think giving the Alliance fat humans or yellow Draenei be a good idea when both are essentially recolours with a few custom cosmetics? Why would Blizzard give the Zandalari custom druid forms?

You think the model going cross faction is the end of the debate and that they may as well give the Alliance High Elves now.

Yup

This is akin to a person losing a leg and then, because they are never going to walk properly again, insisting on sawing the other one off.

Nonsense. What does the Horde lose now if the Alliance gains High Elfs.
Absolutely nothing. The model is now playable.

And if you are worried about uniqueness right down to skin tones and the like, there is no reason now why High Elfs need use the Blood Elf model at all. If Tauren can have antlers and Orcs a straight back, if Zandalari and Nightborne can both use the Night Elf skeleton...there is no reason why High Elfs cannot use a different skeleton.

You seem to keep missing that point....so I'll ask you the same question I asked earlier.

Would you object to Alliance High Elfs if they, for example, used a modified Night Elf skeleton?

What if Alliance High Elfs used the Night Elf rig? Had a different architectural style? Had different class selections and racials?

Would you still object to High Elfs? If so...why? Pure spite? The joy of denying others something which won't affect you? You have a religious objection to High Elfs?

This is not about the model. Not any more. This is about giving the Alliance an Allied Race called High Elfs....which may OR MAY NOT use the Blood Elf model.

They are void infested mutants, and that is enough for me to tolerate their existence. An actual High Elf model that Alliance players could pretend is the authentic thalassian would be vastly harder to stomach.

I see...pure spite it is then.

[elbleuet]

Can you just stop asking for high elves please? Blizzard has already stated they are almost non existent.

They're just one of the most represented Alliance race we can see in game, and are introduced every expansion and even recently in Telogrus and Stormwind but yea, they're non existent.

/rolleyes

[Faerillis]

Perhaps if the High Elves formed a pact with the Blue Dragonflight, it could help differentiate them and explain them taking up the use of warpaint again. The Dragonmaw orc clan is defined by their use of dragons, so we already know this is a theme that can set a group apart. It could also give a story reason why the High Elves are using warpaint again, representative of their new alliance, and plays into the blue eyed theme.

I think the warpaint would work for all classes. A High Elf mage, priest, or paladin would all look great with those designs. Here are some thoughts on how druids forms could be executed if High Elves tie themselves to the Blue Dragonflight. Most of the new Zandalari forms could actually be swapped for these. Just remove the troll tusks and add dragon crests behind the head.

Add in "dragon crest" style hairdos for the elves, and you've got a good theme that would not require the mutation of the high elves. Heritage armor could have a blue dragonscale theme or something similar.

I don't think these really fit with your design for the High Elves. You've generally built them up as a survivalist take on Thalassian culture, probably largely based in the various High Elven lodges, with no particular ties to the Blue Dragonflight. If this were a more arcane take on them (actually quite similar to a suggestion I made back around Cataclysm) based more around adapting and exploiting the elements available in Crystalsong Forest, as the crystalline elements of the woods are heavily tied to the Blue Dragonflight and would doubtless effect High Elven magic as a result, I would be more inclined to agree with these Druidic forms but then they would lose a lot of the design elements I think make this such a strong idea.

Now that doesn't mean I am opposed to High Elven Druids. Actually I would be all for it but here is what I would suggest:

High Elven Druids should tilt into the High Fantasy design more and take most of their inspirations from their old homelands. I would say that the Warpaint Unicorn should be their Travel Form, with the Unicorns they use for their Racial Mount should have armour more resembling their Ranger mockups in a few key places. Their flight form should be an updated Dragonhawk, perhaps using the Green/Blue/White colour scheme currently applied to them — not using red and gold will separate them from Silvermoon more but it is still one of the most significant beasts in Thalassian lore. Balance/Moonkin form would be more tricky, as there aren't many magic-casting beasts around Quel'thalas, so I do think the Saurok skeleton is a good match but rather than using the Blue Dragonflight for its motif, redesign it to be based more off of Mana Wyrms — including their more ethereal elements. Cat form would be obvious as a Lynx though also in need of a recolour but I admit I have no ideas for their Bear form.


EDIT: I noticed after this post that you suggested various different themes that could be applied to the High Elves in your proposal but the Ranger Culture is far and away the strongest of those. Servants of the Blue Dragonflight, rather than establishing a connection to their magics, would align the Blue Dragons with the Alliance — which would be weird enough before you take into account that the Blue Dragonflight has disbanded. The Roman theme suits no part of Thalassian culture (not to mention is VASTLY different from anything to do with Sparta) as Romans were known for Cultural Hegemony, Heavy Infantry with negligible Ranged Skirmishers, Hardcore Combat Engineers and the mindset of "If We Can, We Do."

[Obelisk Kai]

snip.

Normally I don't reply to your comments. I read them, but I don't normally reply. Because I don't want to get into this, your victim complex.

Yes, they gave the Alliance the model, and you have said in the past you didn't want that and I agree that they shouldn't have gotten the model. But they did.

But because they got the model, you now want to burn everything else down it seems.

Nothing else matters, and the Alliance should be facilitated to get a complete copy of a High Elf rather than the Void mutant they have now.

Your position is of course, logically inconsistent.

If all that mattered was them getting the model, then the Void Elves should have sated the demand. It did not, as these endless threads attest to. Instead what we have here is you projecting your own value on the unique status of the model being the sole point worth debating and ignoring the cultural and thematic elements that mean a Blood Elf is still the only way to experience a true High Elven fantasy in World of Warcraft.

You see no value in the theme or culture. They are clearly disposable to you, as you are now keen to throw them to the Alliance for no reason other than the model, which was the most important thing to you, has gone cross faction.

Theme and culture is important to me. It is important to others. If people want to play a high elf fantasy they should roll a Blood Elf. A Void Elf looks like a High Elf, it was once a High Elf but it is not a High Elf.

Given that Blizzard turned the Alliance thalassian elves into void infested mutants, and given the irrefutable logic that they would not have created Void Elves had they any intention of adding High Elves to the Alliance (and if they badly wanted an Alliance race to be void orientated for future story purposes without ensuring High Elves were a completely impossible option they could have created Void Humans or Void Dwarves or Void Night Elves or Void any alliance race, so don't try and argue that the Void Elves are merely about future story content. The choice of a thalassian elf for this race was deliberate and NOT uninformed by the threads asking for High Elves on the Alliance), it should be clear to anyone whose desire for High Elves has not warped their sense of perspective that Blizzard feels the High Elf experience is alive and well in World of Warcraft.

As for being spiteful, no. Not on this topic. Spiteful is a group who desire a carbon copy of the Horde's popular race. Who see a very popular race and don't see it as a unique selling point encouraging them to join the Horde faction, but as an invitation to launch an endless campaign dedicated to getting that clone onto their own faction, quoting the half baked lore of a simplistic yet fun RTS that is over twenty years and wildly out of date with the current game, and then they would have the temerity to pronounce getting the Horde's most popular race as 'fair'.

Spiteful is believing their own desire to play a high elf in the Alliance entitles them to actually get it. Players who would like Horde Draenei, Alliance Undead, Horde Dwarves, Alliance Trolls etc.etc. don't get to play a model they like on the faction they prefer, but High Elf fans should be treated specially on this matter.

Tell you what, you want High Elves to be able to play with the Alliance? Ask for the dismantling of the faction wall and Horde and Alliance coming together. It's a more intellectually honest approach and it doesn't discriminate against anyone.

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They're just one of the most represented Alliance race we can see in game, and are introduced every expansion and even recently in Telogrus and Stormwind but yea, they're non existent.

/rolleyes

If the same fifteen people keep showing up that doesn't mean they are numerous, it means they overworked.

[united]

And your absolute resistance is unwarranted, illogical and apparently spitegul, based solely on the idea that you want to deny the Alliance the opportunity to play High Elfs for absolutely no good reason

The Alliance have EVERYTHING of the Blood Elves from the model to the buildings to the language, history and culture. They just can't play High Elfs.





Because the Void is going to be the next Burning Legion and just as we had Warlocks to tie us to the Legion and Death Knights to tie us to the Scourge, there will be Void based elements to tie us to the Void.

That possibly means we'll get the Ethereals as our racial link.



Why do you think this is a concern? Why would Blizzard give the Horde a city? Why would Blizzard give the Horde everything its asked for such as straight backed Orcs yet deny the Alliance the one thing or has asked for ...persistently...since before the game launched? Why would Blizzard think giving the Alliance fat humans or yellow Draenei be a good idea when both are essentially recolours with a few custom cosmetics? Why would Blizzard give the Zandalari custom druid forms?



Yup



Nonsense. What does the Horde lose now if the Alliance gains High Elfs.
Absolutely nothing. The model is now playable.

And if you are worried about uniqueness right down to skin tones and the like, there is no reason now why High Elfs need use the Blood Elf model at all. If Tauren can have antlers and Orcs a straight back, if Zandalari and Nightborne can both use the Night Elf skeleton...there is no reason why High Elfs cannot use a different skeleton.

You seem to keep missing that point....so I'll ask you the same question I asked earlier.

Would you object to Alliance High Elfs if they, for example, used a modified Night Elf skeleton?

What if Alliance High Elfs used the Night Elf rig? Had a different architectural style? Had different class selections and racials?

Would you still object to High Elfs? If so...why? Pure spite? The joy of denying others something which won't affect you? You have a religious objection to High Elfs?

This is not about the model. Not any more. This is about giving the Alliance an Allied Race called High Elfs....which may OR MAY NOT use the Blood Elf model.



I see...pure spite it is then.

blah blah blah blah blah.

blood elves are on the horde. they have light skin, blonde hair, hell even blue eyes if you roll a DK. what is with this obession? Frankly it's really sad.

You people complain about getting half assed races like void elves then turn around and say, "oh btw give us blue eyed blood elves please!"

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The pacifier and diaper change you so sorely need.

hafbahahahahabdhaha

[Jailson Mendes]

The most idiotic thing is to use the warcraft 2 concept trying to validate this bullshit, when the marjory of the war2 elves are in the horde un the form of the farstriders