Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

Is this thread just going to be about what one group in their secluded corner is saying about a different group which is doing the exact same thing, or are people going to actually discuss some High Elf stuff here, like the OP tried to do in a rather creative way? If not, this thread has become incredibly pointless and nothing but a cesspit of mud slinging, gossiping and ego stroking.

I agree, the topic should be focused on discussing the in-game race of High Elves for which this thread exists exactly for.

Not for trying to sling personal attacks or bring in other topics on different social media about "this person said this mean thing about me" Nor attacking a person rather than the argument they are making.

This thread should slow down as we wait to see what presence, if any, High Elves have during BfA.

The latest thing is internally renaming some Blood Elf skin to High Elf presumably (at least what I've been told) is so that High Elves won't spawn with Gold Eyes. Since keeping the High Elves named under Blood Elves led to the mismatches we see at times such as a few Blue Eye Blood Elves or when Seraphi was created with green eyes at first.

[united]

Is this thread just going to be about what one group in their secluded corner is saying about a different group which is doing the exact same thing, or are people going to actually discuss some High Elf stuff here, like the OP tried to do in a rather creative way? If not, this thread has become incredibly pointless and nothing but a cesspit of mud slinging, gossiping and ego stroking.

Don't get it twisted. This thead became pointless Ion confirmed no high elves.

[God Dragon]

Through their actions. Blood elves have always been portrayed as pompous and very proud, just like the High elves of old. In fact...They ARE the High elves of old.
Most of the High elves are High elves who remained in the alliance following the Second war, or was exiled. The High elves who rejected the Alliance, left and went in seclusion became the Blood elves.

As for your second question...The Kirin Tor High elves are for the most part very similar to the Blood elves. Blood elves with blue eyes is not enough to be a playable race, you need cultural and ideological differences.

Here's the lore about them being thrown out.
"when Grand Magister Rommath returned to Quel'Thalas to teach them Kael's magic siphoning ways, some elves were disgusted by the practice — likening it to vampiric behavior — and opposed its use. Unable to lead a divided nation, Regent Lord Lor'themar exiled the dissenters from the kingdom."

Since High elves considered those magic siphoning ways something bad, they obviously would not use it, even on inanimate objects. Passive absorption and siphoning are very different things even if you can't see it. They may be draining it but passively and without damaging the object.

They were taken care of because the High elves actually sought help, the Blood elves did not. Had the Blood elves sent Emissaries like Sylvanas did, I'm sure they'd have received help.

What actions do the high elves do that make them seem more humbled than blood elves? Working with other races does not mean they have been humbled since the blood elves do that regularly with more beastly races that they probably would have spit on before wc3. The blood elves seemed pretty humble when dealing with the nightborne btw.

If most of the high elves are the ones that stayed with the alliance after the second war, doesn't that mean most of the high elves did not go through the hardships of being exiled by lor'themar? So you showed some got exiled but it clearly says MOST were not and if Most were already within the alliance I would assume they were in the kirin tor and silver covenant which you said are still arrogant.

And you mention that some were exiled but you don't mention that some of the exiled high elves didn't even join the alliance.

Basically, most of the high elves in the alliance were not in Quel'thalas in during the scourge invasion, they are still arrogant by your own words, some were exiled and may have been through some tough shit but not even all of the ones exiled joined the alliance. It still seems to me like the high elves had a much easier time than the blood elves considering most didn't even get attacked by the undead and the ones who had to journey to the alliance after being exiled still got free mana items from humans AND they are mostly still arrogant with nothing really stating otherwise other than you claiming they are.

BTW you are right Blood elves did also get attacked by Amani trolls as well as undead, wretched, and the alliance while trying to restore the Sunwell. They had a MUCH harder time than any high elves including the ones who had to journey from quel'thalas to join the alliance and in the end the ones who had to make the journey still have no lore stating they are more humble than blood elves after being shit on by the undead.

But you did teach me that some did get exiled and they may or may not be more humble than the majority that didnt have to deal with any of the undead.

[FlubberPuddy]

What actions do the high elves do that make them seem more humbled than blood elves? Working with other races does not mean they have been humbled since the blood elves do that regularly with more beastly races that they probably would have spit on before wc3. The blood elves seemed pretty humble when dealing with the nightborne btw.

If most of the high elves are the ones that stayed with the alliance after the second war, doesn't that mean most of the high elves did not go through the hardships of being exiled by lor'themar? So you showed some got exiled but it clearly says MOST were not and if Most were already within the alliance I would assume they were in the kirin tor and silver covenant which you said are still arrogant.

And you mention that some were exiled but you don't mention that some of the exiled high elves didn't even join the alliance.

Basically, most of the high elves in the alliance were not in Quel'thalas in during the scourge invasion, they are still arrogant by your own words, some were exiled and may have been through some tough shit but not even all of the ones exiled joined the alliance. It still seems to me like the high elves had a much easier time than the blood elves considering most didn't even get attacked by the undead and the ones who had to journey to the alliance after being exiled still got free mana items from humans AND they are mostly still arrogant with nothing really stating otherwise other than you claiming they are.

BTW you are right Blood elves did also get attacked by Amani trolls as well as undead, wretched, and the alliance while trying to restore the Sunwell. They had a MUCH harder time than any high elves including the ones who had to journey from quel'thalas to join the alliance and in the end the ones who had to make the journey still have no lore stating they are more humble than blood elves after being shit on by the undead.

But you did teach me that some did get exiled and they may or may not be more humble than the majority that didnt have to deal with any of the undead.

I'll take a stab at some of your points.

So first the what actions make them more humble than Blood Elves? Well clearly working with other races does humble them in a certain regard. This is the whole point of Elisande saying they've "diluted their bloodline" with the "lesser races" and "aren't worthy of the name 'High Elves'" she is basically saying Highborne elves (in this case the High Elves aka Children of Noble Birth) wouldn't be having such a close association/development let's just say Humans as an example since she didn't pinpoint out a specific race.

We also know, and this is something the newest Chronicles backs up too, is that the High Elves in Dalaran, even all those years ago were seen very differently from the Elves that stayed in Silvermoon/Quel'thalas. Even Kael'thas the Prince of his own people felt he shared much more in common with wanting to experience what Dalaran and the world had to offer rather than stay secluded to their nation or something like that (don't kill me for not knowing specifics this was the gist of the idea) and even thought his people might not see him in a good light or something if he didn't do something to help with their plight or whatever.

Again sorry for not being so specific, hope you're getting the gist of the idea. It was said even Vereesa would be made fun of due to her intermingling with Humans and such. So there's definitely a clear distinction between the Dalaran High Elves and those that mainly resided in Silvermoon (of which most of the Blood Elves occur from).

Also I think you're focusing too much on who was or wasn't exiled as if that's some strong theme for Alliance High Elves. It isn't, the main thing is that most of the Alliance High Elves were the ones that actually chose to stay with the Alliance and yeah most of those probably weren't in Silvermoon at the time. Those elves that did get exiled because Lor'themar didn't want to lead a divided nation (at this point there exists Blood Elves and High Elves), yeah some of them went off on their own without joining the Alliance but far greater amount of High Elves are with the Alliance.

The strong theme for High Elves isn't exile, but actually choosing their friends, the Alliance, over their nation because they didn't agree with the way forward that Blood Elves were heading. It's really that simple.

And yes you're right, the Blood Elf story is that they made the choices they had to in order to survive, nothing takes away from that. It's a point in time that has already passed. That won't ever be taken away regardless of whether High Elves happen or not, whether they continue to exist or not.

The ideological differences between High Elves and Blood Elves is one of humbling themselves to be with their allies rather than continually considering themselves superior. This is easily shown with Blood Elf quips, quest text, etc. It's very easy to see that Blood Elves are still very uppity and proud of themselves and their traditions. This isn't shown with High Elves, they're not touting about how great they are every chance they get.

If you can't see these differences, that even the game itself goes out of its way of showcasing (Elisande speech, Blood Elf npc texts, High Elf npc texts, Blood Elf quips, etc) then I would suggest doing some more exploring on the matter if you wish.

The nightborne are closer in culture to Blood Elves than the Alliance High Elves are. High Elves are just closer to Blood Elves in the looks department. But as seen with Kul'Tiran humans, Blizzard isn't opposed to taking the themes of a people and portraying that visually with their model, if they so choose to. Right now they don't.

[Ithekro]

Don't get it twisted. This thead became pointless Ion confirmed no high elves.

Ah but that is factually wrong. There are High Elves. Like, right now, in the game. They aren't playable, but they are there.

Therefore they can be discussed like anything else in the World of Warcraft.

[Gurluas]

Besides...Ion only confirmed there's no High elves planned, not that there will never be High elves. Blizzard change their minds all the time over the years.

[Obelisk Kai]

Besides...Ion only confirmed there's no High elves planned, not that there will never be High elves. Blizzard change their minds all the time over the years.

That is one reading of what he said. However, he explained the rationale why they weren't added, that they felt adding High Elves undermined the faction identity of the Horde and that the fantasy a High Elf represents is already perfectly represented by the Blood Elves.

Once you understand those objections, you can then see how each of them was addressed when they created the Void Elves compromise. A High Elf variant with a unique flavour that does not compromise the identity of the Horde or the fantasy of the Blood Elves.

In order for High Elves to happen, Blizzard has to be convinced that the faction divide isn't worth it. That almost certainly will not happen given how fundamental the Horde-Alliance split is to the game. Ironically, even if they ever reach that point they are more likely to just scrap the Alliance and the Horde altogether and let everyone group with everyone...which means there will be no point in adding High Elves and you'll still have to play a Blood Elf.

[FlubberPuddy]

That is one reading of what he said. However, he explained the rationale why they weren't added, that they felt adding High Elves undermined the faction identity of the Horde and that the fantasy a High Elf represents is already perfectly represented by the Blood Elves.

Once you understand those objections, you can then see how each of them was addressed when they created the Void Elves compromise. A High Elf variant with a unique flavour that does not compromise the identity of the Horde or the fantasy of the Blood Elves.

In order for High Elves to happen, Blizzard has to be convinced that the faction divide isn't worth it. That almost certainly will not happen given how fundamental the Horde-Alliance split is to the game. Ironically, even if they ever reach that point they are more likely to just scrap the Alliance and the Horde altogether and let everyone group with everyone...which means there will be no point in adding High Elves and you'll still have to play a Blood Elf.

This argument is so nonsensical it loses meaning. This is pretty much saying that adding some form of fair-skinned elves to the Alliance would somehow completely and utterly undermine the Faction Wall/Divide whatever you want to call it.

Except a sect of Purple Elves were given to Horde side and somehow that doesn't break apart the Faction Wall? I can understand trying to say High Elves as is cannot happen with the circumstances at the moment. But to pretty much insinuate that if some form of fair-skin elves were to happen at any point then the faction divide breaks apart is utterly silly.

At the end of the day, currently, there's no plans for High Elves because we. just. had. elves. released. So from the get-go there's no way they were coming out soon. No one who's been wanting High Elves were even expecting that, except for some who hyped themselves up to ridiculous amounts. It's plain as day the recent addition of elves means no other elves for a while, this same rule applies to Wildhammer dwarves and I bet it'll apply to San'layn as well, even if they would be considered "Undead" and not "Elf" they're still an Elf at the end of the day.

Not just that, but the main focus of BFA is the Faction War, so even though High Elves make sense for Alliance from a lore standpoint, in an effort to push Faction Differences visually, they wouldn't be adding samesies anyway.

We also learned very recently that their Allied Races are all planned already, means it didn't matter if Ion responded to the question or not, it wouldn't have changed anything either way. Like I said before the main purpose of doing that was to stem/curb all the High Elf talk that was getting out of hand everywhere so much that people were having aneurysms over seeing HE threads. That's stopped now, but High Elves continue to be talked about.

They continue to be the most wanted Allied Race, or unplayable race if you'd prefer to call it that.

I think it's just very nonsensical to think some form of High Elves (and yes with natural skin tones) won't ever be added to Alliance because they still retain their enormous popularity. Blizzard has a track record for changing their minds, yet some people think this will 10000% be something that is never changed? It's more likely to be than not, it's just much easier to hide behind the premise of "well it's not going to happen for a long while so I can very safely lord it all over anyone who disagrees."

Whether it's through Half-Elves, or High Elves end up getting more story development much later on, I have a strong hope that one day we will see them being playable. Blizzard takes a long while to come around to some things at times, and the cards are just currently stacked too high against High Elves to be anything happening near soon.

Ion chose his words very carefully, he didn't even say "never" or imply that. He meant and said the near-term. But let's take that away, even if he didn't say near term. He's already been wrong in recent times about other things, "No Zandalari Druid forms other than Travel form" (BOOM Dinomancers) "No customization updates for older races" (BOOM Belf Gold Eyes), yet some people want to take his response on High Elves as "absolutely never going to happen, the Blood Elves will be the only type of fair-skin elf in the game forever and ever and ever"

Please.

[Deleted]

Don't get it twisted. This thead became pointless Ion confirmed no high elves.

I can't see high elves happening any time soon, but that logic isn't very sound. You're making it seem like Blizzard never ever goes back on its word, which the devs there definitely do (a lot). Ion's statement is more like a temporary roadblock, not a final nail in the coffin for the blue-eyed blood elves. This game is going to keep churning out expansions for a long ass while, EVENTUALLY I guarantee there will be high elves

[Varx]

May 12, 2018

The Blizzard Lore team are in the talks of deleting all traces of High Elves in World of Warcraft. Death ideas for Vereesa Windrunner vary from killed in action, poisoned by horde assassins, and food poisoning from bad shrimp.

Martin Scorsese has announced a new project that will begin filming next year. Being an avid Warcraft Player since TBC, Mr Scorsese will direct a new Drama set in New York about a young Ion Hazzikostas and his rise to glory from the slums of Hell's Kitchen to the bull's eye of every High Elf fan's cave. Cast includes Leonardo Dicaprio as Ion, Michael Cera as an institutionalized High Elfer with a fedora fetish, and Chris Metzen as Himself. The film is projected to shatter box office records and beat Avengers: Infinity war in its opening weekend record.

[RangerDaz]

Don't get it twisted. This thead became pointless Ion confirmed no high elves for BfA.

There. Corrected it for you.

[Obelisk Kai]

There. Corrected it for you.

Actually I believe it to be until someone figures out how to make a High Elf that isn't tall, pale or majestic.

Which is probably what led to Void Elves.

[FlubberPuddy]

Actually I believe it to be until someone figures out how to make a High Elf that isn't tall, pale or majestic.

Which is probably what led to Void Elves.

-cough- first page of this thread -cough- oo my allergies kicking up

[matrix123mko]

Actually I believe it to be until someone figures out how to make a High Elf that isn't tall, pale or majestic.

Which is probably what led to Void Elves.

Void elves are as tall as high elves, they also have very pale skin option and they are still majestic, but also dark, so they aren't right with this. However, void elves are far more interesting and Warcraft desperately needed dark elves. Hope void elves will in time become something akin to dark eves of Warhammer or Might and Magic(Ubisoft one).

[Obelisk Kai]

Void elves are as tall as high elves, they also have very pale skin option and they are still majestic, but also dark, so they aren't right with this. However, void elves are far more interesting and Warcraft desperately needed dark elves. Hope void elves will in time become something akin to dark eves of Warhammer or Might and Magic(Ubisoft one).

Look we all know that what Ion meant was looking like a Tolkien elf so let's not overcomplicate this. You can't make a High Elf that doesn't fit the standard fantasy Tolkien trope, it's a contradiction. That is why if High Elves ever become playable it will not be because the pro High Elf fanbase demonstrates a way around that contradiction that meets what the pro High Elf community wants (which is impossible, see the response from that community to Void Elves), but because Blizzard decides that the faction wall isn't that important.

Which I sincerely doubt is going to happen any time soon. Likely never.

[Darththeo]

That is one reading of what he said. However, he explained the rationale why they weren't added, that they felt adding High Elves undermined the faction identity of the Horde and that the fantasy a High Elf represents is already perfectly represented by the Blood Elves.]

Yes, that's the reason they gave.

Once you understand those objections, you can then see how each of them was addressed when they created the Void Elves compromise. A High Elf variant with a unique flavour that does not compromise the identity of the Horde or the fantasy of the Blood Elves.

This just doesn't follow. You can understand the reasons, but also could see Void elves not as a compromise. You do know you can understand someone's reasons and not accept them right as sound or valid right?

In order for High Elves to happen, Blizzard has to be convinced that the faction divide isn't worth it. That almost certainly will not happen given how fundamental the Horde-Alliance split is to the game. Ironically, even if they ever reach that point they are more likely to just scrap the Alliance and the Horde altogether and let everyone group with everyone...which means there will be no point in adding High Elves and you'll still have to play a Blood Elf.

Or faction identity evolves again and changes as the game evolves. Faction Identity now isn't the same as we had back in Vanilla or BC or Cata ... it changes like everything else. It is basically the reason why I don't see it as a thing in WoW, because what I think when I hear faction identity isn't what Blizzard does. There are two things that drive Blizzard's choices: Story and Balance ... story more important over balance.

[Zorish]

-cough- first page of this thread -cough- oo my allergies kicking up

*cough* everything *cough* from WC2 *cough* belong *cough* to silvermoon *cough cough cough* aka Blood elves.

[FlubberPuddy]

Void elves are as tall as high elves, they also have very pale skin option and they are still majestic, but also dark, so they aren't right with this. However, void elves are far more interesting and Warcraft desperately needed dark elves. Hope void elves will in time become something akin to dark eves of Warhammer or Might and Magic(Ubisoft one).

Read a bit about the Warhammer Druiichi, they sound way too RAW for what Void Elves even come close to. Read about Ashan Dark Elves from Might and Magic and they sound a bit more similar in that they hear whispers of their goddess and some get taken over by it.

Here's the issue though with your line of thinking: Void Elves will get some amount of development because they do currently have the least amount of development. But their story is not going to go that far at all. This isn't a main stay race, it's an Allied Race and typically with Allied Races their major story arcs are finished by the time they are recruited by the factions.

I won't deny that the Void Elves themselves have the potential to get a little bit more story, but I don't think it's going to be anything mind-blowing that alters their people or creates vastly new long-term development for them. We don't see this Mag'har, Zandalari, Kul'Tiras, Dark Iron, Lightforged, Highmountain, and Nightborne. So I don't understand this thought process that "Void Elves are a new race that will get constant updates to their lore to flesh em out"

I don't think so, I think they'll be pertinent a bit for when something Void/Old God related occurs but that's about it.

Look we all know that what Ion meant was looking like a Tolkien elf so let's not overcomplicate this. You can't make a High Elf that doesn't fit the standard fantasy Tolkien trope, it's a contradiction. That is why if High Elves ever become playable it will not be because the pro High Elf fanbase demonstrates a way around that contradiction that meets what the pro High Elf community wants (which is impossible, see the response from that community to Void Elves), but because Blizzard decides that the faction wall isn't that important.

Which I sincerely doubt is going to happen any time soon. Likely never.

And see here is where my hunch was correct It's all about the Fair Skin to Obelisk. So he's going to take the stance that there will never be a Fair skin elf type added to Alliance for the entirety of WoW's lifetime? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Or faction identity evolves again and changes as the game evolves. Faction Identity now isn't the same as we had back in Vanilla or BC or Cata ... it changes like everything else. It is basically the reason why I don't see it as a thing in WoW, because what I think when I hear faction identity isn't what Blizzard does. There are two things that drive Blizzard's choices: Story and Balance ... story more important over balance.

Exactly, you actually understand what happens. The faction identity evolves throughout the years. Horde is no longer the "monstrous, beat your chest drum" faction and Alliance is no longer the "cookie cutter boy scout" faction.

The recent interview with John Hight explained this aptly. Whenever they see one side as having "too many pretty/cute" races they will give that aesthetic to the other side. Same applies to "if one side has too many tough guys" they will give that over the other faction. So you're correct in saying that Faction identity doesn't mean what it meant in the past. Expect all you die-hard "Horde isn't a faction of pretty races" to get more cute/pretty races to round out the Horde (John Hight even said Horde can't be all ugly ) and die-hard Alliance fans can expect to see "ugly/tough" races forthcoming.

Obelisk Kai is just hiding behind the opinion that Fair Skin Alliance Elves will never happen and that's ultimately what "Faction identity" means to him. Doesn't matter that Horde will get "pretty/cute" races which goes against the thematics of Horde (how many Blood Elves did we see in the BFA cinematic btw? Oh yeah none) such as Vulpera if that occurs. To him, maintaining the "Faction wall" is basically "only Horde will ever have fair-skin Elves because I main a Blood Elf and want to remain unique"

[Ithekro]

I had a random thought this morning about the Blood Elves, the Sunwell, and the healing powers of the Light.

The Light heals all scars eventually, right. The elves have a high susceptibility to mutation due to fundamental universal powers. The Blood Elves evolved (slightly) from high Elves due to a light Fel taint in their city. The High Elves mutated from Night Elves due to the Sunwell (presumably, or perhaps being without the Well of Eternity and living in the daylight). The Night Elves evolved from Dark Trolls who settled around the original Well of Eternity. These Dark Trolls presumably evolved from other trolls prior to that also because of the Well of Eternity.

Both the Well of Eternity and the Sunwell were Arcane power sources that "corrupted" the trolls into a new form over time.

What if the renewed Sunwell, with it s heavy Light source of power, "heals" the Blood Elves....and devolves them back into first Night Elves, and then Trolls....or even skips a step and cleanses them to their core and turns them into Trolls (assuming of course that Troll is their based level species...and they aren't also Titanforged constructs originally like humans, dwarves, gnomes, and actually in some respects orcs).

That was my random thought. That the Blood Elves might devolve back to being Trolls via the healing of the Sunwell.

It will change them regardless because we know the elves mutate based on the power they are exposed to over time. It could just go either way right now. First its the eyes, but it could go in any direction, which would make them even more different from their High Elf roots, just as the Sunwell makes the High Elves different from their Night Elf roots.

[FlubberPuddy]

It could happen but changes like that will probably take millenia to happen. And Even though WoW the game has been around for 14 years IRL the pacing of WoW in-game is something like half that, maybe 6-7 years only passed in-game from Vanilla.

So major transformations like that through genetics over time we can assume will not happen for the lifetime of WoW. For instance green Orcs will never be rid of their green skin even though they are no longer drinking demon blood and haven't for so many years.

We won't see 2-3 generations from now in-game. If that actually were to happen then Half-Elves would be a thing! Or High Elves would gain their numbers back for sure by then lol