Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Darththeo]

Good to see you're still here not caring. Your perceived position of hope is the one thing that can demonstrably be qualified as "wrong" in this tiresome subject. I'd get off that high horse by now, if you care to save face. Oh, wait... whoops. LOL, "I don't think you can read body language." I legit LOL'd. You can't even read Ion's written language. Bold move, Theodore.

Given I am far more likely to understand body language that you are, I doubt it. Honestly, you haven't read his written language and yet project that onto me. I have admitted he said no, but it is a no for now, not A NO AND THAT'S NEVER GOING TO CHANGE! ... seriously, you are laughing because you don't understand, not because I am wrong.

[RangerDaz]

There are outliers on both sides Daz but surely you have to agree this Vasaru person is somewhat extreme.



Yet focusing on the allied race system as a mechanism to deliver High Elves ignores that High Elves were already considered and rejected...and that Void Elves now exist. And that the lead developers have twice ruled out High Elves in interviews.

We are in a situation where High Elves have been ruled out and a compromise option has been put forward. I feel Void Elves are a bigger barrier to playable High Elves than the faction wall, and the faction wall is the reason Blizzard cited as to why High Elves aren't happening.

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I haven't really seen any unicorns around quel'thalas. But blue eyes would be nice, hoping for that as an option on my Blood Elf one day.

Oh i have seen many unicorns in stormwind. Their owners are missing. Many rumors say they are waiting for their lost blue eyed owners. They will just have to wait 1 or 2 years.. or so

Because ion just ruled them out for BfA

[Darththeo]

It is just a platitude. You are the one incapable of understanding a condescending pat on the head is just a condescending pat on the head. If you view the entire answer he made as one piece, and do not cherry pick the end for false hope.

Because a summary of his answer would be "This is why adding High Elves would be a terrible, terrible idea that would be immensely detrimental to the game and story we want to tell and we invented Void Elves as something distinct, but who knows, despite all those negatives, maybe someday".

This is self-evident. The rationale for rejecting playable High Elves is not going to change just because the expansion ends. Or the expansion after that. Or the expansion after that.

And the rest of reality shows that they are willing to break something they said in the past if the story dictates they do. Context only supports a "No for now" whether you live in reality or not is your right. Ion isn't stupid enough to give a no forever and it doesn't make sense to give such an answer.

The idea that the Pro-Helfers are hinging on a platitude is nonsensical at best and an out right lie at worse.

It is a compromise. Just one you reject.

Yet, you literally proved it wasn't. And again, this has nothing to do with what I am trying to argue here. You claimed that if you "understand their reasons" you'll "accept the compromise" ... that just doesn't follow. Now you are going "but it would still be a compromise!" that's completely irrelevant to what I stated because whether or not it is in reality a compromise or not is not relevant to what I stated.

Rewording what I am saying to prove I am wrong is childish.

Stating why your argument is wrong is called debating. That you consider holding a contrary opinion worse than conspiring to silence the opposition through abuse of the reporting systems demonstrates that your priorities are out of order.

No, I consider people going into topics where people are talking about what they want just to tell them they are wrong, act morally or intellectually superior, etc.

What's worse is what you have done in this very topic. You haven't just stated your opponents are wrong, but have asserted to them what their stance is. You have asserted what they believe. Your responses ALONE to me prove that. That's why you are worse and wanting to be rid of a group that doesn't understand your view and just wants to argue is merely annoying when it comes to the internet.

[Obelisk Kai]

Oh i have seen many unicorns in stormwind. Their owners are missing. Many rumors say they are waiting for their lost blue eyed owners. They will just have to wait 1 or 2 years.. or so

Because ion just ruled them out for BfA

No he didn't do that, he said the reasons High Elves aren't happening is because they unacceptably blur the faction lines and that the fantasy of a 'high elf' is available on the Horde.

What he left open for the future was not the question of High Elves, but whether Blizzard would ever reconsider the importance of the faction boundaries that are the rationale against playable High Elves.

I cannot ever see it happening.

Blue eyed Blood Elves I can see happening, but not High Elves on the Alliance. Not when Blizzard clearly prizes the faction divide as much as it does, and not when Void Elves now exist as a High Elf variant on the Alliance with a unique flavour.

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And the rest of reality shows that they are willing to break something they said in the past if the story dictates they do. Context only supports a "No for now" whether you live in reality or not is your right. Ion isn't stupid enough to give a no forever and it doesn't make sense to give such an answer.

Of course he isn't stupid enough to give a no forever, that is exactly what we've been telling you the past three weeks. No developer would, that's why his platitude is a platitude and not a promise. From the meat of his reply it is apparent they have no intention or inclination of adding playable High Elves because they feel they have already done so.

No, I consider people going into topics where people are talking about what they want just to tell them they are wrong, act morally or intellectually superior, etc.

Every High Elf topic has been that for years. If you believed it was going to be otherwise then that is your mistake. As I have pointed out before, if you want a safe space the High Elf discord is there for you.

[Darththeo]

Of course he isn't stupid enough to give a no forever, that is exactly what we've been telling you the past three weeks. No developer would, that's why his platitude is a platitude and not a promise. From the meat of his reply it is apparent they have no intention or inclination of adding playable High Elves because they feel they have already done so.

See past posts to you concerning asserting a stance on your opponent. I never claimed it was a promise, but rather then left the door open and didn't close it. If you aren't going to pay attention and just assume my stance for me, please just talk to yourself.

Every High Elf topic has been that for years. If you believed it was going to be otherwise then that is your mistake. As I have pointed out before, if you want a safe space the High Elf discord is there for you.

Topics about potential High elves, yes ... where people who want them discuss it and you feel the need to come in a state why someone's feelings are wrong ... yeah, it's the Pro-Helfers who are worse, totally. /rollseyes

[Sigxy]

Horde already had one mana addicted race of elves and got another.

Nice try!

Almost right, except... well... one of them cured their addiction and no longer need it. Sooo...

Nice try, buddy. Stick to night elves - or live with that the Horde is there for you. <3

[Obelisk Kai]

See past posts to you concerning asserting a stance on your opponent. I never claimed it was a promise, but rather then left the door open and didn't close it. If you aren't going to pay attention and just assume my stance for me, please just talk to yourself.

You've been focusing on the possibility and ignoring the meat of his reply. Pretending he didn't give a comprehensive rebuttal of this goal and instead focusing on the fact he said anything is possible. Anything is possible, that's a statement of fact.

But for the foreseeable future, and I am talking three or four expansion packs, this isn't happening.

Topics about potential High elves, yes ... where people who want them discuss it and you feel the need to come in a state why someone's feelings are wrong ... yeah, it's the Pro-Helfers who are worse, totally. /rollseyes

Given that some of them seem to expect to be safe spaced on a controversial topic on a publc forum I would agree.

[Darththeo]

You've been focusing on the possibility and ignoring the meat of his reply. Pretending he didn't give a comprehensive rebuttal of this goal and instead focusing on the fact he said anything is possible. Anything is possible, that's a statement of fact.

But for the foreseeable future, and I am talking three or four expansion packs, this isn't happening.

Your assertions aren't the "meat" ... he didn't say what you think he said. It's "No for now with no plans" ... not "No forever." I haven't argued anything else. Again, if you are just going to assume my stance, please just argue with yourself.

Given that some of them seem to expect to be safe spaced on a controversial topic on a publc forum I would agree.

I see my sarcasm is wasted on you.

[RangerDaz]

No he didn't do that, he said the reasons High Elves aren't happening is because they unacceptably blur the faction lines and that the fantasy of a 'high elf' is available on the Horde.

What he left open for the future was not the question of High Elves, but whether Blizzard would ever reconsider the importance of the faction boundaries that are the rationale against playable High Elves.

I cannot ever see it happening.

Blue eyed Blood Elves I can see happening, but not High Elves on the Alliance. Not when Blizzard clearly prizes the faction divide as much as it does, and not when Void Elves now exist as a High Elf variant on the Alliance with a unique flavour.

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Of course he isn't stupid enough to give a no forever, that is exactly what we've been telling you the past three weeks. No developer would, that's why his platitude is a platitude and not a promise. From the meat of his reply it is apparent they have no intention or inclination of adding playable High Elves because they feel they have already done so.





Every High Elf topic has been that for years. If you believed it was going to be otherwise then that is your mistake. As I have pointed out before, if you want a safe space the High Elf discord is there for you.

He left everything open for the future

Even unacceptable majestic blue eyed alliance heroes ready to take back their stolen city from the other majestic horde filthy thieves

[Obelisk Kai]

Your assertions aren't the "meat" ... he didn't say what you think he said. It's "No for now with no plans" ... not "No forever." I haven't argued anything else. Again, if you are just going to assume my stance, please just argue with yourself.

You place undue emphasis on the later and nowhere near enough on the former. He offered merely a soft let-down, a platitude with the intent that if in the far future they DO decide to do this, some poster won't turn around after the fact on another topic and say 'but you said never on playable High Elves so when you said never on this you clearly cannot mean it'.

He gave an extremely clear no, and backed it up with an almost immutable rationale, that the faction wall cannot be blurred. The real debate isn't about playable High Elves, although that is where your focus is, it is whether you can get Blizzard to decide the differences between the factions aren't worth it.

Good luck with that.

YI see my sarcasm is wasted on you.

Your current argument is that because he said anything in the future is possible you get to ignore the thrust of his argument, that High Elves are already playable, that Void Elves are a High Elf variant on the Alliance and that High Elves aren't on the radar at all. I long ago gave up trying to determine if you were being sarcastic or serious.

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He left everything open for the future

Even unacceptable majestic blue eyed alliance heroes ready to take back their stolen city from the other majestic horde filthy thieves

But the Humans failed to take Lordaeron.

[Darththeo]

You place undue emphasis on the later and nowhere near enough on the former. He offered merely a soft let-down, a platitude with the intent that if in the far future they DO decide to do this, some poster won't turn around after the fact on another topic and say 'but you said never on playable High Elves so when you said never on this you clearly cannot mean it'.

He gave an extremely clear no, and backed it up with an almost immutable rationale, that the faction wall cannot be blurred. The real debate isn't about playable High Elves, although that is where your focus is, it is whether you can get Blizzard to decide the differences between the factions aren't worth it.

Good luck with that.

See my prior posts. I addressed this. Do you enjoy reading your own posts?

[Obelisk Kai]

See my prior posts. I addressed this. Do you enjoy reading your own posts?

You still seem to be pushing the narrative that 'anything is possible' means more than it did. That is my problem with your stance.

Fine. Anything is possible in the fullness of time.

Doesn't change the fact that the rationale he gave for rejecting High Elves is going to persist over the lifetime of the game, and that to realise the goal of playable High Elves Blizzard is going to have to be convinced to abandon their stance on THE core aspect of the game.

[Darththeo]

You still seem to be pushing the narrative that 'anything is possible' means more than it did. That is my problem with your stance.

Fine. Anything is possible in the fullness of time.

Doesn't change the fact that the rationale he gave for rejecting High Elves is going to persist over the lifetime of the game, and that to realise the goal of playable High Elves Blizzard is going to have to be convinced to abandon their stance on THE core aspect of the game.

Yeah, faction wall isn't the core aspect of the game ... sorry to burst your bubble. It's a minor aspect. The core concept of Warcraft is well conflict ... which is story, it can be a faction conflict or a conflict with a common foe, etc ... seriously, it's called World of Warcraft. Kind to hard to argue conflict isn't the core aspect.

Also, see my posts to you about asserting my stance. You aren't arguing against me and haven't been, you assert my stance and argue against that.

[Obelisk Kai]

Yeah, faction wall isn't the core aspect of the game ... sorry to burst your bubble. It's a minor aspect. The core concept of Warcraft is well conflict ... which is story, it can be a faction conflict or a conflict with a common foe, etc ... seriously, it's called World of Warcraft. Kind to hard to argue conflict isn't the core aspect.

Also, see my posts to you about asserting my stance. You aren't arguing against me and haven't been, you assert my stance and argue against that.

What are you on about?

The faction struggle between the Alliance and the Horde isn't the core of the game?

Everything is built around it. Everything returns to it. It's been the story of the game as long as the game has had a story, with brief periods of co-operation always returning to the war between the factions before too long.

I get that to get playable High Elves the factions have to be trivialised, but thankfully it is clear the developers aren't about to agree to that drastic step.

[Darththeo]

What are you on about?

The faction struggle between the Alliance and the Horde isn't the core of the game?

Everything is built around it. Everything returns to it. It's been the story of the game as long as the game has had a story, with brief periods of co-operation always returning to the war between the factions before too long.

I get that to get playable High Elves the factions have to be trivialised, but thankfully it is clear the developers aren't about to agree to that drastic step.

That's a huge oversimplification and faction struggle =/= required faction wall. You do know there are games with "faction" struggle where races cross factions right? Just because Factions are important doesn't mean the "wall" is important.

[Martaq]

I'm confused as to why this is such a big deal. If you want to roll a 'High Elf' then create a Blood Elf and make it's eyes yellow in BFA. What's that? You don't want to be Horde? Well boo f'in hoo. I'd love to have Horde Dwarves but such is life!

[Obelisk Kai]

That's a huge oversimplification and faction struggle =/= required faction wall. You do know there are games with "faction" struggle where races cross factions right? Just because Factions are important doesn't mean the "wall" is important.

You really don't understand WoW do you? Other games are other games, nobody is going to remember the Defiants or Guardians of Rifts. Or the three factions of Elder Scrolls Online. Or the Elyos or Asmodians of Aion.

Most of those games APED WoW when they invented their factions, coming up with faction based gameplay because WoW had it.

The Alliance and the Horde are absolutely iconic, I would argue that in videogaming no other 'sides' are as well known or as beloved.

Keeping them distinct in theme and appearance is a logical outworking of maintaining their iconic status, lest both sides end up looking and feeling like each other.

Your response, comparing the meaningless factions invented by other games to WoW in an attempt to state 'it doesn't cause an issue there, it won't cause an issue here' at least illustrates you are aware of the consequences of what you are asking for.

You just don't care about them and seek to pretend they won't have an impact, when they will.

I am pleased Blizzard recognised in their response to playable High Elves what it would to the lines between the factions. I am pleased they seek to maintain that wall and therefore the distinct feel and themes of each of the factions. I am pleased they respect their own game, their own story and their own interests.

Because it is far more important that the Alliance and Horde remain distinct than being able to play whatever race you want regardless of faction.

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I'm confused as to why this is such a big deal. If you want to roll a 'High Elf' then create a Blood Elf and make it's eyes yellow in BFA. What's that? You don't want to be Horde? Well boo f'in hoo. I'd love to have Horde Dwarves but such is life!

I'd like Draenei myself but hey, them's the breaks.

[Ithekro]

That would be fine and all except that both the Alliance and Horde have this High Elf theme going on that has nothing to do with the overall Alliance or Horde themes as usually presented (Orc vs Human, with Forsaken and Night Elf being the two next prominent themes). These elves are and have been on both sides since the Blood Elves join the Horde. That's the point that is being made. They cannot be an issues of any faction wall nonsense because they already straddle where any wall would be.

Other races might not have this issue and could be solidly claimed to be one faction only. That is not the case for High Elves and Blood Elves. They have been on both sides since Blood Elves were added into the Horde. Before that they could claim to be on the Alliance and neutral (as the Blood Elves were isolated)

[Deleted]

It is a compromise.

I don't think that world means, what you think it means.

Here in my country, we have women reproductive law, which is commonly known as "The Compromise". Which is in fact nearly total abortion ban, and one of the most restrictive laws in Europe. Few months ago we had thousand of people on the streets shouting "this is not a compromise, this is disgrace" (sounds better in luggage, in which both worlds are similar). Point is, that if opponents of reproductive rights make ever any "compromise" here, then with each other, rather than with ones, to whom this law applies.

I would have problem with calling small and carelessly done concessions taken from the position of power "compromise", even if rejecting to hear one side's actual demands was not as obvious as it was here.

[Ilissandros]

We don't need a third Blood elf faction. The faction conflict has always been the core of WoW and we shouldn't blur the blurry lines even further.