Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Andromedes]

God, I am so tired of all this High Elf nonsense by now. Thousands of unnecessary words written to justify that basically all you guys want is pretty blond elves with tattoos for Alliance.
I'm beginning to hope that one day Blizzard will give blond hair and more facial marking options to Night Elves instead (because girls already have them) just to shut you up.

Yeah, that will show us.

Also you have nice deduction skills, you described me and my desires with 100% accuracy.

[Fyersing]

We have no trouble understanding this point. You have difficulty comprehending you are wrong, according to the Devs. High Elves are Blood Elves. Blood Elves are High Elves. There is no culutral, biological or aesthetic distinction between them. There is no such thing as a 'distinct' Quel'Dorei culture. What the OP is doing is trying to invent one. High Elves and Blood Elves have a political disagreement, that is the sole distinction between them.

The political decisions of any given group, more often than not, directly impact their cultural norms -- especially when said political decisions involve physical conflict.

At the onset of BfA, the schism between the Blood Elves and High Elves will have been ongoing for 11 years. There are dozens of real-world examples that highlight how adequate that timeframe is for values and tendencies adopted as a matter of policy to become cemented in a population, culturally. It only took 5 years for the difference in political mentality between North Korea and South Korea to become entrenched as a cultural mentality, which both sides then viewed as insoluble via diplomacy (hence, the onset of the Korean War).

It took 5 years for this entrenchment to occur, during which the only struggles were internal; conversely, the BE's/HE's have now undergone a full-scale invasion of their nation as well as a decade fighting for opposing factional organizations. The fact that their differences aren't measured stylistically, or philosophically, doesn't really suggest they haven't picked up cultural distinctions along the way -- the fact that one group won't tolerate the Alliance, while the other will, is huge.

To suggest that "there is no cultural distinction" between the two is like making the claim that a member of the Klan and your average Evangelical are culturally identical.

THE. RACE. IS. PLAYABLE.

You draw comparisons to other groups that are not playable and invent some sort of equivalence. You seem to think if you pretend that Blizzard hasn't told you why they aren't playable, if you pretend they are distinct from Blood Elves, if you pretend that it is a matter of time, that they will eventually coming to you.

If you want to play a High Elf so badly, make a Blood Elf and join the Horde. It is that simple. And it is as fair to you as the player who prefers the Horde but just has to roll a Gnome because that is their favorite race. It's a faction based game. Pick a side.

Just wanted to quote this in agreement, so that it doesn't appear that I'm aligning myself with the vehemently pro-HE crowd. The response above was narratively-focused.

[Zorish]

Second, they must have an iron-clad set of values, that they will not violate - they are highly dogmatic. Their identity and its sanctity is important to them. High Elves will not corrupt themselves with Fel, they will not drain a Naaru, and they will not fall in line just because their leaders tell them to or circumstance seems to demand as much. High Elves will not abandon an alliance. They are driven by duty, and will honor their promises to the bitter end. Similarly, they never forgive, they never forget, and if they feel they've been betrayed, they pursue their vengeance until it's been satisfied (see Purge of Dalaran).

yeah they will better suck (sometimes literaly) magic from human mages (sometimes in bedchambers), or from magical artifacts and then feel better after BE restored the sunwell and allow them to visit it. woopsie.

want to see how Sam saw elves?
https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.ne...c2849d97e52eb5
is it nature based? or ranger? nope - i see high skilled mage there in both sword and magic.

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It took 5 years for this entrenchment to occur, during which the only struggles were internal; conversely, the BE's/HE's have now undergone a full-scale invasion of their nation as well as a decade fighting for opposing factional organizations. The fact that their differences aren't measured stylistically, or philosophically, doesn't really suggest they haven't picked up cultural distinctions along the way -- the fact that one group won't tolerate the Alliance, while the other will, is huge.

it took 10k years for Night elves to allow magic users in their ranks, while about 1 year for Tauren learn ways of light through druidism. See point? Long living race have VEEEEERY hard time to change their way, while shortlived can be quite adaptable. Even Heritage armor of VE quite resemble the "High/blood elvish" type or armor. Heck they even not with horde only because Sunwell now have Light affinity and practicing shadow magic near it could have explosive results.

[Traycor]

High Elven Druids should tilt into the High Fantasy design more and take most of their inspirations from their old homelands. I would say that the Warpaint Unicorn should be their Travel Form, with the Unicorns they use for their Racial Mount should have armour more resembling their Ranger mockups in a few key places. Their flight form should be an updated Dragonhawk, perhaps using the Green/Blue/White colour scheme currently applied to them — not using red and gold will separate them from Silvermoon more but it is still one of the most significant beasts in Thalassian lore. Balance/Moonkin form would be more tricky, as there aren't many magic-casting beasts around Quel'thalas, so I do think the Saurok skeleton is a good match but rather than using the Blue Dragonflight for its motif, redesign it to be based more off of Mana Wyrms — including their more ethereal elements. Cat form would be obvious as a Lynx though also in need of a recolour but I admit I have no ideas for their Bear form.

Here's a thought for how a High Elf Druid might look. For their Moonkin form, maybe they could use the Treant form styled after those from Quel'Thalas.

[Syegfryed]

The political decisions of any given group, more often than not, directly impact their cultural norms -- especially when said political decisions involve physical conflict.

yeah but people tend to completely miss the point in this subject, the HE left are civilians who just adopt the human culture, living with then, and the silver covenant, who is a military force aligned with dalaran and alliance friendly, but they didn't difere from the BE culturally, they still do the same shit in the same way

there is no "HE lore" and trying to invent something with headcanon and nonsense will not help, like here, trying to make then look like wood elves, or legolas wannabe

The thing is, cultural change in the spawn of a few years can happens, but with the elves it didn't happens, pretty much because they have a long life

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Here's a thought for how a High Elf Druid might look. For their Moonkin form, maybe they could use the Treant form styled after those from Quel'Thalas.

elves will not be druids, this even more nonsense

[GRAMMARAXIS]

elves will not be druids, this even more nonsense

Poppycock. Even if not playable, the world has many stories.

1) There were Elven Druids mentioned in WCII even if they weren't entirely defined.
2) They descend from a race of druids even if their bodies were changed by arcane energies.
3) In that time, any amount of things could happen. There could have been a sect that decided to go back to their roots and have done so for hundreds if not thousands of years. This would also mean that their forms might have slightly altered if nature magic has that effect on a person (whether it be the eyes or a more defined bone structure / hair styles, tattoos, culture as a whole).
4) The elephant in the room is Dinomancers and Wicker Druids and the new lore for new druids and where they derive their powers, offering more credence to the Elven Druids that were only mentioned along with runes.

[Syegfryed]

Poppycock. Even if not playable, the world has many stories.

1) There were Elven Druids mentioned in WCII even if they weren't entirely defined.

old books not cannon, scrapped, for good

2) They descend from a race of druids even if their bodies were changed by arcane energies.

they left this so called race even before they start being druids and turn their backs at nature magic to focus on the arcane, thats why they get exiled in the first place

3) In that time, any amount of things could happen.

you can't change a arcane oriented society to be legolas druids in a few years

There could have been a sect that decided to go back to their roots and have done so for hundreds if not thousands of years.

there is no roots in druidism to they back for

4) The elephant in the room is Dinomancers and Wicker Druids and the new lore for new druids and where they derive their powers, offering more credence to the Elven Druids that were only mentioned along with runes.

the "new lore" is build in the old lore, the power is the same, it is nothing absurd.

Again, the "elven druids" was retconned and scrapped

rly be logical at least in this, alliance will not get a horde race AND be able to be druid, its total bullshit, if elves could be druids every race could be too

[GRAMMARAXIS]

Now, I should have mentioned that all possibilities -- and there are possibilities -- are based on the evolving world theory. That is, from a role player (The "RPG" of MMORPG) and immersive perspective, characters and races grow and have unique stories and people regardless of what we see, read, know. Though with that further elaborated on:

1) It indicates that they did initially have thoughts of Elven Druids. Which is old lore that, surprise surprise, from WCII Era -- which they say they want to bring back this expansion as a whole. Though yes, the old Lore has been retconned and chopped to pieces ever since The Burning Crusade.

2) They still had the blood of their people (which also descended from trolls). They practiced magic for countless years prior to Azshara rising up to take the throne. Their change of forms, now that I think about it, was from the Sunwell energies. Though I pretty sure that I read somewhere that any magic source satiates High Elves -- even moonwell energies. Though they had to do special training or meditation to fight the the urge. Though that might be old lore as well, in a book or on their old vanilla website. The same goes with Kal'dorei and their relation to the trolls, who are also gifted with Druidism with animal spirits and the loa. Which, yes, is an extreme variation of Cenarius' teachings. More on that and some spoilers regarding my playthrough in Zuldazar/Nazmir and Drustvar in the Alpha towards the end of this post.

3) Very specifically said they could have broke off from them hundreds or thousands of years prior. Possibly inbetween their physical transformations so that they could be a hybrid of Night Elves and High Elves -- a sort of savage, ranger-esque group based around nature and animals -- more muscle bound but still slimmer than the base human model. Potentially even befriending the Blue Flight, if you want to go around the concepts above. Not out of the realm of possibilities, no matter what is said. Heck, I said the same thing as you about goblin shamans a while back, but look where we are with Goblin Shamans, Harvest Witches, Dinosaur Druids, Sun Worshipping Druids, Wicker Druids, Druids of the Pack, etc. Even off-world cultures and people have their own forms of it. Even the Arrakoa forms that worship the sun (and there being sun and moon attacks -- the latter performing Arcane Damage), now has a segway for elves that take in Sunwell energies to go in. Heck, I thought Paladins were sacred until Holy Sun Cows.

4) Technically, every race is able to be a druid. Because NPCs and Hero NPCs are not subject to the gameplay only reasons and lore that we are. We saw this in recent responses by Blizzard when people asked if Anduin was a Paladin now. They said no, he is still a priest but can use Plate armor and Paladin Weapons because of his history. We see this again with Night Elf Paladins. With Arch Bishop Alonsus Foal actually being a Discipline / Holy priest despite being undead (which we can do, but I think the intent was for Shadow -- much like how Lightforge Draenei can be Shadow when the intent is Holy / Discipline). Indeed, even a Dreadlord becoming Pure Light. It makes no real sense to me how a Goblin can be a Shaman and force it to do its will for profit (Vashj'ir storyline), but Thrall -- supposedly the strongest shaman -- is suddenly cut off. But I'm sure there is an additional story for the goblins. Point is, there are constant contradictions that are explained by a character's history; the world is constantly changing around them as it's their world.

Again, I reiterate what I initially put: "Even if not playable". We're fooling ourselves if we say that the potential for Elven Druids is impossible. Unlikely for players to be, yes, but not impossible.

Spoilers from my time in Alpha regarding Druids (highlight with mouse):

Drustvar is an interesting place for Druid. With Blizzard speaking of Dark Druidic magic permeating throughout. Even the very few druids in existence -- and the story says there are only a few, maybe a small circle -- are treated as witches and outcasts by the people who hang and burn them at the stake. We learn of this when speaking to a Druid, with him mentioning he wanted to help someone who always treated him fairly and traded with him when others did not. I'm actually not sure where Kul'Tiran druids get their powers from. They are presented as Wiccah and do not seem to worship anything. The three we meet in game seem content with trying to tend to the trees or wildlife. With their forms representing wickermen and bark (as we see from datamine, their actual forms are worgen placeholders). Apparently, the forests became so corrupted by dark Druidism when two of the keepers went off on a personal journey for a bit. From there, the trees grew dark, mushrooms infected wildlife, cursed creatures walked the land and witchcraft was prevalent -- done by the Witch Coven and the Drust. Though this dark magic seems to have the weakness of Silver weapons and techniques formed by Inqusitors of Old that once fought the dark druidism (though with the placeholders, some of the Drust magic seemed to be a mix of spiritual and arcane with their constructs).

The Zandalari, however, seemed to be given their abilities through building shrines, ritual sacrifice and making deals with their loa. Though sacrifice was foregone a long time ago by them (but is still used by the Blood Trolls). At least, ritual sacrifice; the loa -- Bwonsamdi in particular -- still demand blood sacrifice in his name so that he could bring those souls into his realm. In fact, he seems to relish in the war with the Blood Trolls and demands a million souls for his help. In essence, if you want someone's blessing, you have to choose one and present yourself to them to see what they demand... if they don't flat out eat you first. At least, that's how it is presented in the questing so far in Zuldazar. They are then granted the Loa's powers and blessings (which is like a garrison ability gameplay wise in terms of use). The main druid faction are sort of flying scouts that make dealings with a Pterodactyl. They take care of its children, among other things as part of the bargain. Which means that the Zandalari Druids can actively bargain with a powerful being that exists in physical form to acquire their abilities. With many of these abilities being given to a players regardless of class.

The implications of both of these new druids and of Drustvar itself are enormous. If a living entity or spirit is strong enough (or if they are one with a part of nature as I assume is the case with Kul'tiran Wiccah Druids), they could very well allow a replication of druid to fit the mold similar to "Sunwalker", "Dinomancer", "Dark Druid", etc. Even if they failed in their duties and the trees aren't allies anymore.

[Syegfryed]

Now, I should have mentioned that all possibilities -- and there are possibilities -- are based on the evolving world theory. That is, from a role player (The "RPG" of MMORPG) and immersive perspective, characters and races grow and have unique stories and people regardless of what we see, read, know. Though with that further elaborated on:

and im saying there is no need to make elves druids, just because people want it, they don't need to evolve their story into that, night elves are the elf druids, the nature lovers or "wood" elves, blood/high elves are the magic elves, we don't need to dilute and diminish those and make then the same with another color, just because people want a even prettier druid

and like i said if they would build on a lore to make elves druids when there is no need, they should do it with all races, who make WAY more sense

1) It indicates that they did initially have thoughts of Elven Druids. Which is old lore that, surprise surprise, from WCII Era -- which they say they want to bring back this expansion as a whole. Though yes, the old Lore has been retconned and chopped to pieces ever since The Burning Crusade.

they did have thoughts on elven druids, thats why they make night elves druids, the other elves still are the mage elves

2) They still had the blood of their people (which also descended from trolls).

thats totally irrelevant, you are not inherent to some kind of magic practice because your ancestors are

and again this logic is flawless since the high/blood elves ancestors were not druids, the highborne never pratice druidism or nature magic

3) Very specifically said they could have broke off from them hundreds or thousands of years prior. Possibly inbetween their physical transformations so that they could be a hybrid of Night Elves and High Elves -- a sort of savage, ranger-esque group based around nature and animals -- more muscle bound but still slimmer than the base human model. Potentially even befriending the Blue Flight, if you want to go around the concepts above. Not out of the realm of possibilities, no matter what is said. Heck, I said the same thing as you about goblin shamans a while back, but look where we are with Goblin Shamans, Harvest Witches, Dinosaur Druids, Sun Worshipping Druids, Wicker Druids, Druids of the Pack, etc. Even off-world cultures and people have their own forms of it. Even the Arrakoa forms that worship the sun (and there being sun and moon attacks -- the latter performing Arcane Damage), now has a segway for elves that take in Sunwell energies to go in. Heck, I thought Paladins were sacred until Holy Sun Cows.

ok i literally have no idea what you try to say here, so lets just forget

Again, I reiterate what I initially put: "Even if not playable". We're fooling ourselves if we say that the potential for Elven Druids is impossible. Unlikely for players to be, yes, but not impossible.

the potential of elven druids is same possible as goblin druids, there is a possibility in both, it should happens? hell no

maybe when they just broke the class restrictions and everyone can be everything, only then elves should be druids

[Arcene]

While I don't understand this desire for High Elves on Alliance side you guys are definitely working hard to find a place for it to fit and some of these concepts are pretty cool.

On the Druid part though have you considered the Nightborne at all? Some of them, more specifically the Grove Tenders and High Botanist Tel'arn seem to approach Druidism from the opposite direction from the side of the Arcane instead of from Nature and reaching pretty much the same result.

Very similar to a Balance druid I thought, in fact I was kinda expecting the Nightborne to have Druidism entirely because of this and their new connection to the Arcan'dor.

Maybe this concept would work with that in mind?

[GRAMMARAXIS]

While I don't understand this desire for High Elves on Alliance side you guys are definitely working hard to find a place for it to fit and some of these concepts are pretty cool.

On the Druid part though have you considered the Nightborne at all? Some of them, more specifically the Grove Tenders and High Botanist Tel'arn seem to approach Druidism from the opposite direction from the side of the Arcane instead of from Nature and reaching pretty much the same result.

Very similar to a Balance druid I thought, in fact I was kinda expecting the Nightborne to have Druidism entirely because of this and their new connection to the Arcan'dor.

Maybe this concept would work with that in mind?

This is thinking outside the box. Hadn't even occurred to me up to this point. The Arcan'dor also pretty much cleansed them of magic reliance in one go. It was druidic in origin and a catastrophe turned people into the spiders that many of us oh so loathe in the zone. Yet nobody's more Arcane absorbed than they are.

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If Void Elfs have a large enough population, if Lightforged Draenei have a large enough population, if the population is large enough to support an existing faction...then he is wrong and simply pushing that line to excuse a decision already made.

If Blizzard don't want to add High Elfs, they should just come out and say so and stop making these nonsensical excuses and tell the Alliance players to just go away.

Arguing that Blizzard can change Blood Elfs SLIGHTLY to create Void Elfs, but that even major changes aren't good enough to allow for the addition of High Elfs, as some people are doing, is simple spite. I can't think of any better word for it. A High Elf using a different model, with different racials and animations, with different class selection and a lore that continues the story of their separation rather than follows the Blood Elf storyline cannot possibly intrude upon the identity or faction of Blood Elfs....yet some people here insist that even such a change would be unacceptable to them, apparently because other people would be getting enjoyment something they've spent that past decade or more denying would be possible. Killing off the High Elfs isn't going to happen, nor would to solve the issue,. Giving the Alliance a High Elf substitute is simply a sign Blizzard is completely missing the point...and it isn't working. The only solution is to give the Alliance High Elfs, but that doesn't equate to giving them the Blood Elf model or making them copies of the Blood Elf.

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If it'll shut them up...why not?




PRECISELY



I can see when you say you haven't read my posts on the issue, you were being serious.

Since it escaped your notice, I suggested making MAJOR changes to the High Elfs to allow them to create their own factional identity that is DIFFERENT from the Blood Elfs.

I suggested different racials.
I suggested different mounts - Stags and Eagles.
I suggested different classes - Warrior, Shaman, Druid, Hunter, Rogue
I suggested dropping the Blood Elfs iconic classes of Priest, Paladin and Mages.
I suggested embracing the architecture style of the old Night Elf Empire and embracing a Roman motif, very different from the style of Blood Elfs Middle Eat/Arabic style.
I suggested keeping the Silver Covenant as a separate faction so the players need not be associated with that group.
I suggested a very different one - isolationist, defensive, almost xenophobic
I suggested an Ice motif against the Blood Elfs Fire motif.

And so on.

I suggested creating a High Elf faction that was very different from the Blood Elfs in look, appearance, style and politics and which was very deliberately moving away from the Blood Elf culture which not only had rejected them, but which they viewed as sharing a degree of responsibility for the tragedy. Hence, looking back to the past and the embrace of the magic of nature, and a return to the Romanesque style of the Night Elf Empire.

Which part of the suggestion I offered copies that of the Blood Elfs? That they have pointy ears, an eye glow and speak Elf?



Go read the suggestion I have made...which are essentially that the Alliance can get High Elfs if they change the model and culture in line with their existing story. I am not suggesting that High Elfs keep ANYTHING from the Blood Elfs except a similarity in look. Whether they do or not would depend on how important Blizzard see the issues, but I suggested major changes that would see the High Elfs start from the same place as the Blood Elfs but diverge from us since then. If Blood Elf culture can undergo massive change in that timeframe, so can High Elfs.

Would all Alliance players like such a change? No. But they'd still have High Elfs and would shut up about them.



You are stating that it doesn't matter what changes are made to the High Elfs...that you will denounce them on principle. Void Elfs are OK because you can tell yourself them are "mutants" but even you acknowledge that they are not High Elfs. They are Blood Elfs. Mutations of a Mutation.

You wish to deny others the pleasure of playing a race who existence will not affect your gameplay one bit, will not affect your enjoyment one bit, simply based on the label attached to the model, rather than what the model looks like, or what their story is or how they are portrayed in game. You can't even be bothered to read or understand what arguments are being made before leaping to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what is being said, or what changes are being proposed - you're just going to say no.

As I said...spite.

Personally, I don't mind their culture and political sphere changing. Same with some alterations to aesthetics to make them just mostly similar. In fact, I'd say that is a requirement. It will make them more interesting while also quieting a lot of the want that people had since Vanilla when gnomes were announced as the final race instead of High Elves. Heck, even if their skeleton changed a bit to make them a bit taller to fit their more nature-ground existence would be alright with me. Still retaining that ranger like look and all, but just a bit different. Tribal beads, hairstyles, etc. They could even have a unique story about a subset breaking off shortly after the sunwell to explain why they're slightly taller but still look similar to Quel'dorei. Potentially just have a story element similar to the Arcan'dor fruit that purged the need for a well to exist. Present or in the past, similar to how Demon Hunter, Worgen and Death Knight are shown in the past and then come to the present through story. Even just written text or a story or book about it to make money beyond what they would cash in.

The point for me would be that a void is literally filled (pun partially intended) and we'd have our WCII Elves and Humans versus Orcs and Ogres (maybe?). In an expansion where they are saying they want to have the feel of the old WCII days.

[Arcene]

Personally I would make the split off somewhere during the Troll Wars it would give them a few thousand years to become a little different. Maybe they start of a remnant of an army that attacked the Armani and somehow got split off from the main forces and lost. (Magical accident perhaps?)

Then maybe they stumble across Night Elf ruins from the Sundering but are still quite stranded from the rest of their people and end up staying there. Then we can they can find [INSERT MAGICAL MCGUFFIN HERE] which changes them somewhat (because we all know that Elves can't get enough of being warped by magic sources) to explain their slightly different appearance.

Then they have a few thousand years to deviate from the High Elves but they still call themselves Quel'dorei. Then we can have us accidentally stumbling across their island during all the naval stuff we're doing right now and there you go.

it needs polish admittedly but I am at work right now so there are probably holes and I can't consult the lore to work out the kinks.

Would probably be more interesting than Void Elves, because while I enjoy them as a race their lack of lore and appearing out of nowhere with no build up nor time to become acquainted to them makes them a little cardboard cut-out.

[Northem]

Personally I would make the split off somewhere during the Troll Wars it would give them a few thousand years to become a little different. Maybe they start of a remnant of an army that attacked the Armani and somehow got split off from the main forces and lost. (Magical accident perhaps?)

Then maybe they stumble across Night Elf ruins from the Sundering but are still quite stranded from the rest of their people and end up staying there. Then we can they can find [INSERT MAGICAL MCGUFFIN HERE] which changes them somewhat (because we all know that Elves can't get enough of being warped by magic sources) to explain their slightly different appearance.

Then they have a few thousand years to deviate from the High Elves but they still call themselves Quel'dorei. Then we can have us accidentally stumbling across their island during all the naval stuff we're doing right now and there you go.

it needs polish admittedly but I am at work right now so there are probably holes and I can't consult the lore to work out the kinks.

Would probably be more interesting than Void Elves, because while I enjoy them as a race their lack of lore and appearing out of nowhere with no build up nor time to become acquainted to them makes them a little cardboard cut-out.

Interesting theory ... I had always thought of something like that indeed.

When I heard that Alleria and Turalyon (and what I obviously assumed would be their respective Quel'dorei and Silver Hand armies) had been battling the Burning Legion for untold millennia under the protection of a lost Naaru, I immediately thought of how Alleria and her Quel'dorei would have adapted to the absence of their precious Sunwell thanks to the power of the Light, and therefore would have become something like Lightforged Quel'dorei.

In that way, when we had established contact with the Army of the Light, instead of meeting with an army of more-than-usual-holy Draenei pulled from the nothing, we would have met with an army of Holy High Elves with banners of the Ivory Unicorn, commanded by Alleria and Turalyon. Obviously, in that Army of the Light there would also be some Lordaenorian humans along with Turalyon, for instance, a few loyal Templar Knights of the Order of the Silver Hand (there would be only 6 or 7 templar knights because it would be logical to assume that not all humans would have managed to obtain the immortality granted by the Naaru, only Turalyon and his most loyal knights).

Thus, instead of having stupid allied races like those ass-pulled Void Elves or those redundant Lightforged Draenei, we would count at last with the Quel'dorei of the Army of the Light as an allied race for the Alliance. In addition, if the concept of a Void race would be interesting enough, we could have something like a group of isolated Broken (or perhaps Draenei) that, having cut off their relationship with the light, have managed to learn how to use the Void without being controlled by it: the Voidscarred or Draenei of the Void (at least they wouldn't be another race of elves XD).

---

But, as always, Blizzard has opted for a less interesting narrative ... However, that "Lightforged Quel'dorei" idea was always my plan B

My plan A would be Greenwood, a large mountainous and wooded zone located halfway between Lordaeron and Quel'thalas that in WoW is still is a closed area, being Quel'Lithien Lodge the only clue of its existence currently.

Before the Third War, Greenwood was an area full of magic and wildlife that served as a natural barrier between the human and the elven kingdoms. Although in practice it belonged to the elven kingdom, as it was populated mainly by Quel'dorei, it had some degree of autonomy. Given its proximity to Lordaeron, it was not surprising that the Quel'dorei living there were closer and friendlier to humans and their allies than the elves who lived farther north.

When the Scourge razed the human Kingdom of Lordaeron and began their unstoppable march towards the kingdom of the elves, the Quel'dorei living in Greenwood knew they would be the first to fall, so they resorted to a powerful artefact as their last chance to face Arthas's armies. But it did not go exactly as they wanted, and all Greenwood, or rather, the version of Greenwood at that exact moment was suddenly detached from the reality and was absorbed by the artefact itself.

After the accident, all living creatures of Greenwood had disappeared, the entire area was empty, deserted. The hosts of Arthas found no resistance to stop their march to the Sunwell, thinking that Greenwood's inhabitants had fled to the north. Nobody ever knew what happened to all the living beings of Greenwood, believing that they had died, either by the reckless use of the magic, or by the Scourge.

Even today, what was known as Greenwood is completely desecrated, with its cities in ruins and its woods and rivers still infested by the consequences of the Scourge attack decades ago... but hidden among some ruins of what time ago was a Quel'dorei city, the artefact still remains.

What seems an inert artefact, inside houses nothing more and nothing less than an alternative dimension of Greenwood, the whole area of Greenwood with its woods, rivers, lakes, mountains, unicorns, animals and elven cities that were trapped after the accident, all frozen in time, just at the dawn of the Third War ...

If someone finds the artefact and manages to rescue the entire Greenwood from his lethargy ... I'm sure that both the Horde and the Alliance will try to win the favor of the Greenwood Quel'dorei...

[Obelisk Kai]

snip

This thread has convinced me.

MMO-champion needs a fanfiction forum.

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The political decisions of any given group, more often than not, directly impact their cultural norms -- especially when said political decisions involve physical conflict.

At the onset of BfA, the schism between the Blood Elves and High Elves will have been ongoing for 11 years. There are dozens of real-world examples that highlight how adequate that timeframe is for values and tendencies adopted as a matter of policy to become cemented in a population, culturally. It only took 5 years for the difference in political mentality between North Korea and South Korea to become entrenched as a cultural mentality, which both sides then viewed as insoluble via diplomacy (hence, the onset of the Korean War).

But those aren't applicable. That's one of the fundamental points I am making. I have heard that there could be an interesting story in the schism between High Elves and Blood Elves, but I don't believe there is. Because the parallel you are choosing, North and South Korea, is not an accurate one.

A better parallel would be Nazi Germany. I hope you are not going to invoke Godwin's law just yet, but hear me out. Nor am I saying that the Blood Elves are governed by a tyrannical regime of boundless evil.

When the regime in Germany came to power, those Germans who had the means to leave and were ideologically opposed to it did so. Many of them settled in the United States. Now, do we talk of the schism between the Germans who remained and the Germans who left as if both groups were equivalent? No we do not, because the Germans who chose to remain dwarfed the Germans who left. The Germans who left did not set up a little Germany in the US. They mostly assimilated into their host nation because they had no other choice.

The High Elves in the Alliance face a similar scenario. Day in, day out, they are surrounded by Humans. Work with Humans. Live with Humans. Engage in social interactions with Humans. They simply do not have the numbers to maintain a distinct culture. It has been hinted I believe that far from the Quel'Dorei creating a vibrant and unique culture of their own, one that contrasts with the traditional thalassian elf way of life embodied by the Blood Elves, that they are being assimilated into Human society. This is not surprising given their circumstances.

To suggest that "there is no cultural distinction" between the two is like making the claim that a member of the Klan and your average Evangelical are culturally identical.

There is no cultural distinction that matters. They don't have the numbers to maintain a separate culture. They are being absorbed into Human society. The two most famous High Elves remaining, Alleria and Veressa, both took Human lovers and gave birth to Half Elf children.

I think it is very clear where Blizzard is going with the High Elves.

Either they will all die at some point, or they will be marginalised as blue eyed, pointy eared Humans.

This is of course an opportunity for a Half Elf allied race. High Elves have been working alongside the Alliance in one capacity or another now for several decades. I see no reason why Half Elves could not be an option. They would use the Human base model, true, but they would have pointy ears and the glowing blue eyes beloved of the High Elf fan.

In my opinion, it is Half Elves that should be asked for. It is the one viable future Alliance High Elves have.

[Tak]

Everyone here saying high elves = honor really need to start thinking that this group of elves wouldn't honor the sacrifice most of their people did defending silvermoon from the scourge by changing their name. And when will Kyrtf stop pretending he doesn't want high elves XD.

[Syegfryed]

In my opinion, it is Half Elves that should be asked for. It is the one viable future Alliance High Elves have.

but they are blond and skinny? cause if not they will not stop

[Deleted]

You wish to deny others the pleasure of playing a race who existence will not affect your gameplay one bit, will not affect your enjoyment one bit, simply based on the label attached to the model, rather than what the model looks like, or what their story is or how they are portrayed in game. You can't even be bothered to read or understand what arguments are being made before leaping to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what is being said, or what changes are being proposed - you're just going to say no.

As I said...spite.

Obelisk Kai is simply obsessed with Alliance not getting High Elves and that's it, there is no point arguing with him because he is not arguing with you. He is simply writing walls of text about why High Elves can't be playable in every single High Elf thread for months if not years as if it's some kind of task he has to do. He may personally not even agree with some of his own arguments that he writes but he will still write them if they could be used against High Elves, because for him denying Alliance High Elves is a matter of principle. So next time you see Obelisk Kai's post, just skip it. If your read some of his posts before, you have read them all anyway.

[Obelisk Kai]

Obelisk Kai is simply obsessed with Alliance not getting High Elves and that's it, there is no point arguing with him because he is not arguing with you. He is simply writing walls of text about why High Elves can't be playable in every single High Elf thread for months if not years as if it's some kind of task he has to do. He may personally not even agree with some of his own arguments that he writes but he will still write them if they could be used against High Elves, because for him denying Alliance High Elves is a matter of principle. So next time you see Obelisk Kai's post, just skip it. If your read some of his posts before, you have read them all anyway.

Well I agree this isn't really an argument, the writing is on the wall for this topic if anyone cares to look. This is group therapy for extreme denial.

As for my posts being similar in nature, repeating the same points, two things. Firstly, just because a fact has been mentioned before does not mean it is out of date. The reasons for there being no Alliance High Elves are pretty persistent and have been for years.

Secondly, I guess it's the vain hope that continually puncturing the echo chambers that tend to form with High Elf topics by pointing out some truths regarding that hope might get through to some people.

I'll leave you with one such truth.

Why would Blizzard create Void Elves for the Alliance if they ever had any intention of making High Elves playable for the Alliance. The answer is that they have no such intention.

- - - Updated - - -

but they are blond and skinny? cause if not they will not stop

It was just a suggestion regarding redirected efforts that might yield a result.

That or Night Elven Worgen.

[Deleted]

Obelisk Kai is simply obsessed with Alliance not getting High Elves and that's it, there is no point arguing with him because he is not arguing with you. He is simply writing walls of text about why High Elves can't be playable in every single High Elf thread for months if not years as if it's some kind of task he has to do. He may personally not even agree with some of his own arguments that he writes but he will still write them if they could be used against High Elves, because for him denying Alliance High Elves is a matter of principle. So next time you see Obelisk Kai's post, just skip it. If your read some of his posts before, you have read them all anyway.

Or just put the autist on ignore like most of us have.

[Magnagarde]

Blizzard has shown us that they're going to add whatever they please no matter how senseless or senseful it is. Haematoma elves, pompeous lanky crack elves and ogre-men are already a reality.