1. #5621
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Blood Elves and High Elves are the same race divided by a political opinion.

    Tushui and Huojin Pandaren are the same race divided by a political opinion.

    This is self evident.
    It's self evident if you dumb down the question as you are doing here.

    HE would not going to be a race with the same options as Pandaren have in both factions, they would be alliance by any ways, with their own paraphernalia, and BE the same, the other people on the other faction with their own paraphernalia.

    BE and HE aren't by close anything related to how Pandaren are built up in the game, BE and HE aren't a neutral race and will not be if HE get added.

    If Pandaren are used as an argument is for pointing that even the exact same race in two factions do not damage them, it makes the two factions more diverse by having something from the other side, and with the HE would happen to make something that Pandaren can't bring, and that is faction conflict agains the horde.

    You are just being dishonest when giving such plain and uncomplete responses, really, it seems that you just want to oppose for the sake of oppose.

  2. #5622
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JdRobespierre View Post
    So it damaged the Pandaren, not this legendary "faction wall"?

    Well, clearly such damage doesn't threaten Thlalasian elves themselves, as their divide seems rather strong, well-reasoned and deeply rooted in the story. For many times it have been used by Blizzard in story, with quite good effects. And for all that time their development was rather parallel, than merged.

    Moreover High Elves fans do not advocate for neutral starting position, as it would destroy them both. And - it case of Pandaren we have no such popularity, and neither was there ever for them any demand.

    So I'm afraid Blizzard's disappointment of Pandaren doesn't apply to this case so easily.
    The Pandaren damaged the faction wall. Thankfully because of the nature of their introduction this damage was confined mostly to themselves.

    By that I mean Pandaren were introduced at the same time to both factions and their entire plotline within Mists of Pandaria was based around that neutrality. Yet despite that the concept still failed, Pandaren feel rootless and both factions suffered a loss of distinctiveness.

    Blood Elves are High Elves. And Blood Elves were introduced over a decade ago as a Horde race. Making a race that has been Horde for over a decade de facto neutral, and the most popular Horde race at that, would render the faction wall a bad joke.

    Blizzard expressed these sentiments in the recent Q and A when the reason given for no playable High Elves was an unacceptable blurring of the faction wall, the lesson learned from the Pandaren.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    It's self evident if you dumb down the question as you are doing here.

    HE would not going to be a race with the same options as Pandaren have in both factions, they would be alliance by any ways, with their own paraphernalia, and BE the same, the other people on the other faction with their own paraphernalia.

    BE and HE aren't by close anything related to how Pandaren are built up in the game, BE and HE aren't a neutral race and will not be if HE get added.

    If Pandaren are used as an argument is for pointing that even the exact same race in two factions do not damage them, it makes the two factions more diverse by having something from the other side, and with the HE would happen to make something that Pandaren can't bring, and that is faction conflict agains the horde.

    You are just being dishonest when giving such plain and uncomplete responses, really, it seems that you just want to oppose for the sake of oppose.
    And you overcomplicate it.

    It is very simple. Blood Elves are High Elves. The High Elf fantasy is therefore available to anyone who wishes to partake of it. If you want to play a High Elf but are not doing so, it is not because they aren't available but because you have made the choice not to play them.

    You have as much right to play an Alliance High Elf as I do to play a Horde Gnome.

    And while we both can play Pandaren, they proved neutrality was a failure.

  3. #5623
    Mechagnome serendipity11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    You place undue emphasis on the later and nowhere near enough on the former. He offered merely a soft let-down, a platitude with the intent that if in the far future they DO decide to do this, some poster won't turn around after the fact on another topic and say 'but you said never on playable High Elves so when you said never on this you clearly cannot mean it'.

    He gave an extremely clear no, and backed it up with an almost immutable rationale, that the faction wall cannot be blurred. The real debate isn't about playable High Elves, although that is where your focus is, it is whether you can get Blizzard to decide the differences between the factions aren't worth it.

    Good luck with that.





    Your current argument is that because he said anything in the future is possible you get to ignore the thrust of his argument, that High Elves are already playable, that Void Elves are a High Elf variant on the Alliance and that High Elves aren't on the radar at all. I long ago gave up trying to determine if you were being sarcastic or serious.

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    But the Humans failed to take Lordaeron.
    *cough* Excuse me? I'm ultimately neutral on this issue. But that is the worst "excuse" not to add high elf ever. "To many elves" or "to similar to a currently playable race" is much more valid but "Blur the faction lines" lolwut? Have you heard of the race called Pandaren? Did blizzard just magically forget they exist? They have literally no physical difference between faction and can even talk to each other cross faction. Blue eyes blood elves on the alliance have more differences then the different factions of pandaren. The lines have already been blurred with one race. I don't see the harm in doing it with another.

    To be fair my idea of a compromise is normal high/blood elf skin options and hair colour options for void elves so people can at least RP as a high elf without blizzard making yet another elf race that isn't unique at all.
    Let's get 1 thing straight, I'm not

  4. #5624
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    No, you're wrong because you're trying to say that your own opinions hold more weight that the opinion Blizzard has consistently held for over ten years.
    Yeah, it's opinions when you don't want to point to anything. And it's facts when nobody pointed it already. And even you have the guts to say that opinions matter more depending on what sounds more likable to you....

    Get lost and don't try to troll me anymore. Talk to me in a proper way or don't expect anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    And you overcomplicate it.

    It is very simple. Blood Elves are High Elves. The High Elf fantasy is therefore available to anyone who wishes to partake of it. If you want to play a High Elf but are not doing so, it is not because they aren't available but because you have made the choice not to play them.

    You have as much right to play an Alliance High Elf as I do to play a Horde Gnome.

    And while we both can play Pandaren, they proved neutrality was a failure.
    Overcomplicate?

    Pandaren is a neutral race that works exactly the same in both factions, HE and BE not, is that complicated to you?

    And neutrality is a failure because Pandaren can be played in both factions, how is that?

    And don't confuse yourself, i'm horde, i always played horde from 2009, and i never leveled an alliance character, so is not 'both of us' playing Pandaren as you suggest.

    Stop transforming this into a faction war, it isn't, HE does not undermine Horde, it improoves the conflic between the factions by giving one more rival to BE (and one very fitting) and by extent The Horde.

  5. #5625
    Mechagnome serendipity11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    The problem with the phrase 'blood elves are high elves' as an argument is that is quite easy to just look around in-game and find how there are thalassian elves with blue eyes, working with the alliance, that have never been considered to be blood elves.

    There is a disctintion between both elf groups, it has always existed, even back in vanilla... i don't understand why suddenly people intentionally forget about it. So i'll repeat it again:
    All blood elves are high elves.
    Not all high elves are blood elves.

    It has nothing to with the fact that they are indeed the same race, it has to do with the fact that they've been written to consider temselves two different things, something that anyone can notice just by playing the game btw.
    Romulans are Vulcans.
    Let's get 1 thing straight, I'm not

  6. #5626
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    If Blood Elves are High Elves, then how is it possible, that they were introduced as Horde, despite they were already introduced much more earlier than decade ago, in Alliance, and are there present to this day?

    But more seriously - Blood Elves were not High Elves when introduced. That's the point.

    Despite many of You suggesting, that it is High Elves fans, who are bluntly pushing here agenda, many of You are the same people, who for years were advocating for justify Blood Elves, and start to present Blood Elves as innocent, manifesting your sympathies in form of all that "psychovegan" rhetoric. Thus rather pushing Blizzard to destroy their concept, than accepting logic, that You now would like to enforce on others - "If You want to play innocent, untainted elf, Alliance is there for You".

    Except it's not, despite it should already be long ago. Because to a large extent You have succeed. High Elves fans are just the only ones, who remember, that Horde Thalasian elves were at first point never meant to be, what You so strongly wanted them to be. Couse that was those not playable ones.
    Last edited by mmoc5cb4a68957; 2018-05-15 at 06:52 PM.

  7. #5627
    Quote Originally Posted by serendipity11 View Post
    Romulans are Vulcans.
    Exactly

    Federation players shouldn't be able to play as a Vulcan in Star Trek Online because the Romulans are a playable race and faction (current Blizzard logic on High Elves).
    Yeah, that would go over really well with the fan base in Star Trek.

  8. #5628
    Mechagnome serendipity11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    Exactly

    Federation players shouldn't be able to play as a Vulcan in Star Trek Online because the Romulans are a playable race and faction (current Blizzard logic on High Elves).
    Yeah, that would go over really well with the fan base in Star Trek.
    Also despite the fact that the common heritage has been noted several times they are still considered distinct species at pretty much every turn. Despite spocks attempts at reunification that were about as politically different as possible.
    Let's get 1 thing straight, I'm not

  9. #5629
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    if dev says they won't be implementing something into game, they won't be doing it
    * Until they change their mind again.

  10. #5630
    Never forget, the Alliance is evil, and High Elves will never belong to an evil faction.

  11. #5631
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JdRobespierre View Post
    * Until they change their mind again.
    Unless they don't. So far we have...13 years ? streak of them not changing their mind. Oh how many blizzcons full of disappointment for high elf fans.

  12. #5632
    Rydanis point from many pages ago were far more honest and believable that any of the faction wall/"Blizzard says so" ideology being spouted in the last few pages. His points I can respect in there honesty. The others ring as arrogant and ignoring that there are already High Elves in the Alliance and have been since the game started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Unless they don't. So far we have...13 years ? streak of them not changing their mind. Oh how many blizzcons full of disappointment for high elf fans.
    About as many as have been disappointments for Alliance fans that don't care about High Elves in the least.

  13. #5633
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Do you want some specific sentence that prooves what you want? I can play that game too. And i'm gonna be very kind to you and ask for something easier so you don't feel overhelmed.

    Show me something that proove the inhability of HE to be playable for today standards, why is it, and what is the backup of that.

    The rest of things you asked for (is not a point, is a cumulative list of points but whatever dude xddd) had been answered here a hundred times and again and again and again.

    Is ironic that you are talking about doing mental gymnastics while saying that pointing to where HE are and who they are is a perversion to the lore.

    BE the new HE is a lie or a twisted statement as best.

    Population issue does not backup, it barely did before, and now it simply doesn't.

    Blizzard's official stance is not a true, it's human words that do not support by itself and can be pointed out if they are wrong.

    And just with the whole VE thing... are you just saying that Blizzard added a race without intention of it making sense? that Blizzard did it to solve the HE dillema and by that we aren't entitled to discuss? you lack vision if that is your argument, void elves seems like an insult for some people, and not just for people who want high elves.
    Weak ad-hominem. Try harder if you want to get rid of me. And for future reference, if someone asks you a question, it's not a good strategy to evade the entire question and then propose a question of your own. That's not how this debate, or any debate, works. You can't omit a challenge and issue one of your own, especially while trying to condescend me. So again I ask you for proof, and I will not accept your goalposting or evasion until you do so. If you can't answer, then just admit you're lying and there is no proof. Because that's what I believe the case here is.

    But let me get this straight, so I understand what kind of screecher I'm dealing with. You think you know the game better than Blizzard, and that you can disprove their official stance on the matter? You think you, a mere player of the game and biased High Elf supporter, know the game and the lore better than the people who create it? And I'm just supposed to take you at your word? Nope.

    Your arrogance is too ridiculous to take seriously. There's no way you can seriously make that claim with a straight face. And if you think it's a legitimate claim, you have brainwashed yourself into a state of delusion like the others.

    Nothing has been proven. You can't walk into a courtroom and say, "I am innocent, because I say so, and that's proof! Even though the cops are saying I'm guilty, they are wrong! There, I proved it!" You need actual proof or evidence. Since you're confused on the actual spelling of the word, I wouldn't dare presume you even know the meaning of the word.

    So, until you prove to me that you're right with actual evidence and support, I'll just assume you're just blowing off more frustrated steam at not being able to have what you want. That is literally all any of you have done.
    Last edited by Enkrypt; 2018-05-15 at 07:34 PM.

  14. #5634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Unless they don't. So far we have...13 years ? streak of them not changing their mind. Oh how many blizzcons full of disappointment for high elf fans.
    And so? Now they introduced Void Elves - it was one of the first things they tried after bringing allied races. I believe they rather failed in recognizing the nature of expectations, and growing High Elves fans feedback is the proof. But I do not expect them to validate this move, before BfA was even released.

    If there will be more allied races in future expansions, then there will be also future tries of solving High Elf demand questions. So I'm not so much worried about.

  15. #5635
    Pandaren Monk Melsiren's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who feels most of the "unique" HE concepts in this thread are culturally appropiated wildhammer dwarf styles?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    High elf fans are basically flat-earth society of warcraft lore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Alleria Windrunner View Post
    I AM the victim.

  16. #5636
    Quote Originally Posted by JdRobespierre View Post
    And so? Now they introduced Void Elves - it was one of the first things they tried after bringing allied races. I believe they rather failed in recognizing the nature of expectations, and growing High Elves fans feedback is the proof. But I do not expect them to validate this move, before BfA was even released.

    If there will be more allied races in future expansions, then there will be also future tries of solving High Elf demand questions. So I'm not so much worried about.
    As people have brought up over the last several hundred pages, the Void Elf issue could have been solved in one of two ways (or both).

    1. Having made their origin story about them having been High Elves that were either converted to the Void and discovered by Alleria, Allieria's troops from Outland that were lost decades ago, or High Elves Alleria saves but in doing so they get converted to the Void. Any option that starts out with this group being High Elf at the start of the experience, rather than them being Blood Elf at all. This would appease the lore crowd.

    2. Cosmetically have them have natural skin tones in some way (like an out of combat feature), to appease the RP crowd.

    That would have probably solved, or at least mitigated the High Elf groups rather than agitating them even more. Void Elves made it worse than it was before.

    A third option would be if they advance the Void Elf story to prove that they are using High Elves to increase their numbers and groups like the Silver Covenant join the Void Elves (thus that group of prominent High Elves goes away as High Elves), that to would appease the lore crowd. Making less High Elves, more Void Elves would at least give the Void Elves the High Elf backing. Right now, it looks like the process to make a Void Elf is a one time thing, while learning about the Void could eventually result in Void Elf like people like Alleria was prior to absorbing a Darkened Naaru's core.
    Last edited by Ithekro; 2018-05-15 at 07:29 PM.

  17. #5637
    Quote Originally Posted by serendipity11 View Post
    Romulans are Vulcans.
    The point I'd make here is that Romulans and Vulcans have been separated long enough to develop real physical differences, two entirely separate cultures, and a different set of aesthetics for the most part.

    When it comes to Blood Elves and High Elves, we must accept that Blood Elves are the base race. High Elves are the divergent outlier. And mostly? They're shown as the blue mirror to Blood Elves these days. I honestly just think the High Elves need a little more time to evolve. There current form isn't so much a distinct culture and identity as it is a subsection of Blood Elf dissidents.

    In time, they'll diverge from Silvermoon culture, and likely physically change through admixture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralqadar View Post
    Am I the only one who feels most of the "unique" HE concepts in this thread are culturally appropiated wildhammer dwarf styles?
    You're not, but I don't take that too seriously. I would expect there to be some Wildhammer influence on them, but I don't think they should go full Wildhammer.

  18. #5638
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    (...)
    If You are willing, to call destroying them, solving the case...

    Using void is in no way consistent with motivations of elves previously exiled from Quel'Thalas, and even Blizzard was probably aware of that to some point. That's why they made them new Blood Elf exiles. Still, they used Thalasian elf model and blue eyes - maybe even believing, that it is really the case High Elves fans wan't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralqadar View Post
    Am I the only one who feels most of the "unique" HE concepts in this thread are culturally appropiated wildhammer dwarf styles?
    Both are derived from WC2, from related early concepts.

  19. #5639
    Quote Originally Posted by KrakHed View Post
    The point I'd make here is that Romulans and Vulcans have been separated long enough to develop real physical differences, two entirely separate cultures, and a different set of aesthetics for the most part.

    When it comes to Blood Elves and High Elves, we must accept that Blood Elves are the base race. High Elves are the divergent outlier. And mostly? They're shown as the blue mirror to Blood Elves these days. I honestly just think the High Elves need a little more time to evolve. There current form isn't so much a distinct culture and identity as it is a subsection of Blood Elf dissidents.

    In time, they'll diverge from Silvermoon culture, and likely physically change through admixture.

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    You're not, but I don't take that too seriously. I would expect there to be some Wildhammer influence on them, but I don't think they should go full Wildhammer.
    Given the changes to the Sunwell, I would think the Blood Elf culture would be the one to change more drastically in a shorter period of time than the High Elves.

    As for the tattooed High Elf images in the thread that appear Wildhammer-like, its from the Warcraft II era High Elves who's Rangers had their faces painted to make them different from Elven archers. The Elven ranger being the upgraded unit type. Much like the paladin was the upgrade to the knight unit.

  20. #5640
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralqadar View Post
    Am I the only one who feels most of the "unique" HE concepts in this thread are culturally appropiated wildhammer dwarf styles?
    They have, and will continue, to try any and every single thing they can to justify why they need them, or how they should look to differentiate them. To be fair, Alleria Windrunner is seen with these markings already.

    Funny thing is, they got the High Elves already. They just have tentacles, purple skin, and are void infused. That's the compromise Blizzard made instead of tattoos, battle-markings, and other body decor.
    Last edited by Enkrypt; 2018-05-15 at 07:42 PM.

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