1. #5721
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    That they'll end up charging for it is conjecture on my part, but at the same time do you honestly believe that they're going to spend resources on developing the platform, software (to their standards), the servers, and handle the maintenance all for free? That sounds like a pipe dream to me.
    You never know, but most likely I see it being part of our 15/month normal sub rather than a separate sub or they'll do a 15/month sub for Classic only, plus like 5/month on top of regular ... I can't see them honestly expecting people to pay 15/month for each.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
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  2. #5722
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Seems like you are asserting opinion as fact now. Are you done?
    I'm sorry, didn't you begin your previous post by stating that other games share races across factions and it wouldn't cause damage to WoW? From that I thought we had moved onto opinions. I assumed your arguments had finally run out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You are aware EVERYTHING you said can still be achieved with races crossing faction. You can be distinct and have the same races, hell you can even have distinct looks and be the same race.

    And on top of that, you are still wrong about the "Faction Wall" or "Faction Identity" being a "Core aspect" ... it isn't. The core aspect is conflict, the faction conflict and divide as played a focus in 2 expansions (MoP and soon to be BfA*), it's always been a more often a secondary aspect of the game. It's part of the core aspect of conflict. The game is called World of Warcraft not Alliance vs Horde. Every expansion, even Vanilla, was about conflict against something.
    This is nonsense. If you think the faction conflict between the Alliance and Horde isn't the core of the game then you are deluding yourself.

    It comes and it goes. Sometimes it is at the forefront, sometimes it fades into the background, but nothing is more important in this game than choosing whether you are Alliance or Horde. It determines what you can play, who you can play with, where you can go safely and whom you fight in the battlegrounds. To even pretend that that is a secondary aspect, and to then talk absolute rubbish about how the factions could still function as distinct entities with races crossing over, tells me you have no respect for the game's most important feature.

    If you see the Alliance and Horde as being a straitjacket to break out of, rather than the superstructure the entire game is built on, you are playing the wrong game.

    WoW should not be broken to pander to your silly notions that the factions are meaningless.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post

    Humans, gnomes, draenei, dwarves, all those SI:7 members that are already playable, except for the one goblin (on the alliance at least)

    Yeah dude, that's really not the same than the group almost exclusively showcased to be comprised of High Elves (a non playable race)

    And it's definitively Blizzard's fault that they gave this non playable faction more screen time than other groups. It wouldn't be the same issue of the SC was instead made of playable alliance races (it could have been humans and gnomes with some helves)
    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    Wow what a stupid conparison. SI:7 is a race now? Get a grip, you are just talking nonsense for the sake of argument.
    I made that comment over two weeks ago...does necromancy count within a thread?

    Still, the point stands.

    The Silver Covenant are a story prop, nothing more. And SI:7 is a story prop, nothing more. You are correct that the idea of SI:7 becoming a new race is ridiculous.

    That is of course the point. A story prop is a story prop and is fated to remain a story prop.

    Just as the Silver Covenant will never be used as the basis for a High Elf Allied race. That the SC is pretty much all the Alliance High Elves that are left is meaningless in terms of the ultimate fact that they are a prop.

  3. #5723
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    I'm sorry, didn't you begin your previous post by stating that other games share races across factions and it wouldn't cause damage to WoW that we had moved onto opinions. I assumed your arguments had finally run out.
    That's not actually what I asserted. Any choice will cause "damage to WoW" ... I am stating faction identity doesn't require faction restricted races. Listen, you really need to stop asserting your opponents stance, it's really annoying. Hell, even not allowing High Elves, could freaking damage WoW. You can't make a choice that is going to please everyone.

    This is nonsense. If you think the faction conflict between the Alliance and Horde isn't the core of the game then you are deluding yourself.
    Derp ... because it isn't. What's the name of the game?

    It comes and it goes. Sometimes it is at the forefront, sometimes it fades into the background, but nothing is more important in this game than choosing whether you are Alliance or Horde. It determines what you can play, who you can play with, where you can go safely and whom you fight in the battlegrounds. To even pretend that that is a secondary aspect, and to then talk absolute rubbish about how the factions could still function as distinct entities with races crossing over, tells me you have no respect for the game's most important feature.
    This is just total nonsense because the Horde and Alliance aren't just defined by races. You don't "destroy the Horde" by allowing High Elves on the Alliance. It's funny how you claim I don't get the game when you are messing up on something you claim is a core concept!

    If you see the Alliance and Horde as being a straitjacket to break out of, rather than the superstructure the entire game is built on, you are playing the wrong game.
    Yes, which is why players have ask for Orcs, Tauren and Blood Elves on the Alliance, Dwarves, Worgen and Humans on the Horde ... do you forget the whole theory people had on the Mag'har being Alliance? It was pretty popular. You are simplifying the faction to just a superficial divide ... just what skin the character has. There is more to the faction than race.

    WoW should not be broken to pander to your silly notions that the factions are meaningless.
    Again, asserting my stance. I never suggested anything of the sort. I stating factions aren't the core ideal ... which it isn't. If the game was called Alliance vs Horde, you'd be correct, but it's called World of Warcraft ... the primary concept is CONFLICT. You are focusing on a subset of that ideal and calling it the "core aspect."
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2018-05-16 at 10:02 AM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  4. #5724
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    That's not actually what I asserted. Any choice will cause "damage to WoW" ... I am stating faction identity doesn't require faction restricted races. Listen, you really need to stop asserting your opponents stance, it's really annoying. Hell, even not allowing High Elves, could freaking damage WoW. You can't make a choice that is going to please everyone.
    World of Warcraft factions are based on identifiable races making up the factions with a look and theme of their own. The one time they tried a race not restricted by faction, it didn't work. While you may believe that it wouldn't cause damage to the game, the consequences of your stance are apparent to everyone not content with undermining the lines between the factions so that the option of playing a High Elf is available without having to go Horde.

    And you are right, you can't make a choice that pleases everyone. Blizzard has chosen to prioritize the integrity of the factions over the complaints of those for whom the factions mean nothing. That they are unhappy is unfortunate, but damaging the game to please them isn't worth it.

    This is the correct choice.



    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Derp ... because it isn't. What's the name of the game?
    And what is the one thing this game always comes back to? What is the first choice you make when creating the character? What were the first two games in the series about? Why did they go with two factions for WoW rather than three or four or six?

    Orcs versus Humans.

    Alliance versus Horde.

    That the complexity of the world allows them to tell other tales, face other villains and have other experiences does not impugn the truth that the struggle of the Alliance and the Horde is the core of the game.

    You have demonstrated that the factions are meaningless concepts to you by virtue of your willingness to undermine them. You don't get to demand Blizzard trash the Alliance and the Horde, which is the logical outworking of what you are asking for, because the faction and race combinations seem too constrained to you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    This is just total nonsense because the Horde and Alliance aren't just defined by races. You don't "destroy the Horde" by allowing High Elves on the Alliance. It's funny how you claim I don't get the game when you are messing up on something you claim is a core concept!



    Yes, which is why players have ask for Orcs, Tauren and Blood Elves on the Alliance, Dwarves, Worgen and Humans on the Horde ... do you forget the whole theory people had on the Mag'har being Alliance? It was pretty popular. You are simplifying the faction to just a superficial divide ... just what skin the character has. There is more to the faction than race.
    There is nothing more to be said. You really don't get the game if you are giving credence to that nonsense.

    I suggest a more logical argument for you to pursue will be to scrap the Alliance and the Horde entirely. This idea of allowing any race to play with any faction undermines what the Alliance and Horde are about, leaving them hollowed out husks whose only meaning is whether you like blue or red as a colour.



    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Again, asserting my stance. I never suggested anything of the sort. I stating factions aren't the core ideal ... which it isn't. If the game was called Alliance vs Horde, you'd be correct, but it's called World of Warcraft ... the primary concept is CONFLICT. You are focusing on a subset of that ideal and calling it the "core aspect."
    Take ownership of your stances then. You keep putting out these terrible ideas and then refuse to take ownership of what the consequences of those ideas will be. If I have to fill in the blanks for you because you refuse to, I will do so.

  5. #5725
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkishi View Post
    This sounds like one hell of a fat guy post though, whew.
    Missed, try insulting other random trait.

  6. #5726
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    World of Warcraft factions are based on identifiable races making up the factions with a look and theme of their own. The one time they tried a race not restricted by faction, it didn't work. While you may believe that it wouldn't cause damage to the game, the consequences of your stance are apparent to everyone not content with undermining the lines between the factions so that the option of playing a High Elf is available without having to go Horde.

    And you are right, you can't make a choice that pleases everyone. Blizzard has chosen to prioritize the integrity of the factions over the complaints of those for whom the factions mean nothing. That they are unhappy is unfortunate, but damaging the game to please them isn't worth it.

    This is the correct choice.
    None of this is remotely true and doesn't actually deserve a response beyond at this time, factions are built on races that look unique. Even Blizzard hasn't ruled out another neutral race, in fact, they said a race would be neutral if it fits the story .. so your stance here is just false.

    And what is the one thing this game always comes back to? What is the first choice you make when creating the character? What were the first two games in the series about? Why did they go with two factions for WoW rather than three or four or six?

    Orcs versus Humans.

    Alliance versus Horde.

    That the complexity of the world allows them to tell other tales, face other villains and have other experiences does not impugn the truth that the struggle of the Alliance and the Horde is the core of the game.

    You have demonstrated that the factions are meaningless concepts to you by virtue of your willingness to undermine them. You don't get to demand Blizzard trash the Alliance and the Horde, which is the logical outworking of what you are asking for, because the faction and race combinations seem too constrained to you.
    Given the Legion as featured as much as the Alliance vs Horde Conflict ... I can't see how you claim it "always" comes back to faction conflict. I am not saying it's meaningless (seriously, stop asserting my stance) ... I am saying it isn't the primary concept which it isn't. It is part of the primary concept of conflict. You can't go into a concept, pick one piece of that and say here is the core of the game ... that's nonsense.


    There is nothing more to be said. You really don't get the game if you are giving credence to that nonsense.

    I suggest a more logical argument for you to pursue will be to scrap the Alliance and the Horde entirely. This idea of allowing any race to play with any faction undermines what the Alliance and Horde are about, leaving them hollowed out husks whose only meaning is whether you like blue or red as a colour.
    Good job, you just proved you only care about superficial appearance of the Alliance and Horde rather than you know what the **** they actually stand for. Worse, you project that trait onto me. Look at the Nightborne and Void Elf recruitment quests for proof you're wrong ... those quests show the ideals of the factions at hand. It's you who are arguing for a meaningless distinction but think I am ... that's rich.

    To me, the factions are about ideals not races ... races are just a current tool to express the ideal. They could find other ways ... if you can only tell Alliance from Horde by race, it's you who see them as red and blue. Unfortunately, those ideals have been watered down over the past expansions ... but they can always reverse that.

    Take ownership of your stances then. You keep putting out these terrible ideas and then refuse to take ownership of what the consequences of those ideas will be. If I have to fill in the blanks for you because you refuse to, I will do so.
    Because what you are saying isn't my stance? Why should I own your strawman? You literally have admitted you'll strawman me rather than take the mature approach and ask the question if you feel there is a blank ... good job. Way to show your character.

    You have admitted you don't care for an honest debate or discussion or anything. I don't even need to post because apparently you'll just make up what I have to say.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2018-05-16 at 10:42 AM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  7. #5727
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Missed, try insulting other random trait.
    Hmm. Balding?

  8. #5728
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkishi View Post
    Hmm. Balding?
    Nope. Try again. You can scratch all health related issues.

  9. #5729
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Nope. Try again. You can scratch all health related issues.
    Gotta be honest, I'm pretty sure I got it right with the first one, big guy. Your post just had that kind of quality to it, you know?

  10. #5730
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkishi View Post
    Gotta be honest, I'm pretty sure I got it right with the first one, big guy. Your post just had that kind of quality to it, you know?
    Too bad. Not only can you only push your point by insulting others, you can't even find a proper insult. Thats pretty pathetic. Its like that one nerdy kid who tries to make a comeback but only "uhm" and "errrs" are coming out.

  11. #5731
    there is on beta bfa ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    It's a choice RP, with the blood elf history

  12. #5732
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Too bad. Not only can you only push your point by insulting others, you can't even find a proper insult. Thats pretty pathetic. Its like that one nerdy kid who tries to make a comeback but only "uhm" and "errrs" are coming out.
    Aw, poor guy, mad about being insulted after posting nothing but insults and drivel himself. Nice banter by the way, really top notch stuff. What point am I pushing, by the way?

  13. #5733
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkishi View Post
    Aw, poor guy, mad about being insulted after posting nothing but insults and drivel himself. Nice banter by the way, really top notch stuff. What point am I pushing, by the way?
    I don't think anyone knows that.

    And no, calling people shitfiction...well shitfiction isn't insult. Its desperate plea to bring them back to reality.

  14. #5734
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    I don't think anyone knows that.

    And no, calling people shitfiction...well shitfiction isn't insult. Its desperate plea to bring them back to reality.
    Why would you say I'm pushing a point then? You're probably pretty confused with that soft head of yours. "Shitfiction"? What are you on about now?

  15. #5735
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkishi View Post
    Why would you say I'm pushing a point then? You're probably pretty confused with that soft head of yours. "Shitfiction"? What are you on about now?
    About this thread. And about "nananana can't hear you devs/haters" crowd.

  16. #5736
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Blood Elves are High Elves.

    Tushui are Pandaren. Huojin are Pandaren.

    Playable Alliance High Elves sole difference from Blood Elves is their political alignment.

    The sole difference between Tushui and Huojin Pandaren are their political alignments.

    Alliance High Elves therefore de facto turn the Horde's most popular race neutral.

    As I said, it is very simple.



    Neutrality failed the Pandaren because it crippled any further story potential they can have.

    Neutrality failed the Alliance and Horde by blurring the lines between the faction to an unacceptable extent and that was with a race designed and introduced as neutral with a theme of neutrality and a storyline of balance and neutrality.

    You are attempting to justify that Pandaren worked when all the evidence we have, including the fact Blizzard has failed to introduce any further neutral races in six years, a dev tweet showing they were unhappy with how it worked and Ion's recent comments indicating that maintaining faction diversity is a top priority shows that the concept of a neutral race failed.

    Again, just because you believe the opposite does not make it true. You hold a contrarian opinion because you want playable Alliance High Elves. Because you want playable Alliance High Elves, you are willing to overlook or twist actual facts, or disregard what the devs say, because they are an impediment to your goal.

    You argument is hopelessly biased. Of course you will argue I am biased as well, and I admit that, but my biases match what the developers clearly want for the game. This is why I can quote sources, both in game and out, to support my positions.





    High Elves do undermine Horde. Again, this is a contrarian position you have adopted based on a personal goal that you have the luxury of taking because you are not a developer. The developers have to take a holistic view of the entire game. If they feel High Elves would damage the lines between the faction, the faction wall, then they are correct and you are wrong. You are wrong because you are biased. You are biased because your goal of playable High Elves means you would be incentivized to minimize or ignore the negative consequences of playable High Elves.

    Your final assertion, that HE would improve the faction conflict by giving the Blood Elves a rival, is subjective. While possible, it is not worth the cost to the identity of the Horde and the role of the Blood Elves to allow this thematic intrusion. Void Elves now more than fulfil this role of 'rival' you postulate, given they are traitors that are ideologically opposed to Silvermoon on every level. High Elves offer nothing a Void Elf cannot in terms of rivalry. Void Elves offer the void theme contrast to Blood Elves which High Elves cannot.

    High Elves are irrelevant.
    This line of reasoning would suggest that World of Warcraft is a Kindergarten level game in terms of complexity when it comes to its faction content. That is ridiculous at the very least and insulting to every player's intelligence at its very core.

  17. #5737
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    About this thread. And about "nananana can't hear you devs/haters" crowd.
    Seems like you're having a lot of trouble sticking to a topic (proper diet and exercise can help your concentration, too). I feel a little bad now, since I expected you might be able to hang a bit considering your garbage posts, but I'll admit I was wrong about that. Carry on then, my guy.

  18. #5738
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkishi View Post
    Seems like you're having a lot of trouble sticking to a topic (proper diet and exercise can help your concentration, too). I feel a little bad now, since I expected you might be able to hang a bit considering your garbage posts, but I'll admit I was wrong about that. Carry on then, my guy.
    Hah, is that really the best you can do ? What are you 12 ? And maybe you need reminder that you are the one having issues with sticking to topic.

  19. #5739
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Hah, is that really the best you can do ? What are you 12 ? And maybe you need reminder that you are the one having issues with sticking to topic.
    This is painful, seriously. Do you have an elementary school level banter book on hand or something? "ur 12" and "no u"? Come on, now. It's probably the fat clogging up your skull.

  20. #5740
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkishi View Post
    This is painful, seriously. Do you have an elementary school level banter book on hand or something? "ur 12" and "no u"? Come on, now. It's probably the fat clogging up your skull.
    My, aren't you a skilled orator ?

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