1. #5761
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    It wasn't an insult. It was pretty much a good allegory to mentality of high elf fans past interview. On the other hand, you are guy who considers health issues to be something you should mock. And then hilariously pretend to have any moral high ground.
    It was a worthless insult that added nothing and it's plain to see. What I consider something to mock is a guy with an ego too big for his head. No moral highground here, since, like I said, all I'm doing is responding in kind to you. I'm basically slumming it with you here.

  2. #5762
    Deleted
    Thank You for defend, however to offend or upset me, usually takes more effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrakHed View Post
    If I was working at Blizzard and going to design Wild Elf assets for anyone, I'd hand them all over to the Kaldorei to keep them happy. They need someone to pander to the kind of things they want one of these days. As they are now, Night Elves are probably closer to what High Elf fans want High Elves to be than what Night Elf fans actually think Night Elves should be.

    On the other hand, the Blood Elves are rudely capitalizing on the whole Light Elf themes and have traded off a fair amount of the edge they once had. This fucks up what could have been an easy jumping off point for developing tangible differences. It's not the direction I'd have chosen for Blood Elves. But I wouldn't have killed off Kael'thas either.
    Good points. I'd add, that Blood Elves suffer from tendency of making appeal to classic elf fans as well. However I still believe, that there are ways of portraying elven nature connection in different ways, and developed to the different degree. And I would also repeat my basic thought from the first post - only putting High Elves somewhere in center of that themes, would force Blizzard to do the work necessarily to make other elven races distinct again.

    Quote Originally Posted by serendipity11 View Post
    They were never meant to be drow any more than night elves were.
    I'm afraid they were. Skin colors are much more drow-like, change in appearance under the influence of Nightwell were much drow-like, motifs of living without the sun for centuries, on spider-like mutants around their settlement, or later allying themselves strictly with the most drow-like in behavior race - those are hints. However I agree, that Blizzard didn't decided to take them any further. It's not suprising. It would not be their first attempt to portrait races described in other universums as villains, in much more positive light.

    I'm just wondering if this time it did not go little too fast to give them depth.

    Quote Originally Posted by serendipity11 View Post
    Would half elves be an acceptable alternative?
    I personally like half-breeds in fantasy very much. Or honestly, I should rather say that I love and favor. And yes - half elves, sounds more like a compromise.

    Thing is, Warcraft was never based on halfbreeds, as they rarely allow for strong visual differences. And when You prefer strong visual differences, there is no need to use half-orcs for example, in roles in which you can use regular orcs. Halfbreeds sounds like idea strongly foreign to Warcraft, as they are always destinated to temper racial differences, not highlight them. Hard too say, how I't would work.

    However as for justification in lore, for high elves to become different, higher average level of crossbreeding is as good, as ideas of nature shift, or magic induced changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    its blizzard fault
    Nooo.... I clearly and directly stated, for two times at least, that it is Your fault.

    Your - as commentators and posters - unwillingness to listen what it is all about, Your cheerful messing with the feedback, and Your simplifications based on bad will, lead Blizzard to waste resources, and stay with problem unsolved. This is how I see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    pretty much a good allegory
    Just as Void Elves are pretty much good attempt to implement High Elves - seeing wild emotions, in actual calm and patience presented
    Last edited by mmoc5cb4a68957; 2018-05-16 at 12:53 PM.

  3. #5763
    Good morning sun. Good morning birds. Good morning cancerous high elf thread. Are you ready for a full day of shitposting?

  4. #5764
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkishi View Post
    It was a worthless insult that added nothing and it's plain to see. What I consider something to mock is a guy with an ego too big for his head. No moral highground here, since, like I said, all I'm doing is responding in kind to you. I'm basically slumming it with you here.
    Nah, you are just a random guy with bloated sense of self-righterousness. Nothing more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JdRobespierre View Post

    Nooo.... I clearly and directly stated, for two times at least, that it is Your fault.

    Your - as commentators and posters - unwillingness to listen what it is all about, Your cheerful messing with the feedback, and Your simplifications based on bad will, lead Blizzard to waste resources, and stay with problem unsolved. This is how I see it.
    You mean people who tell you to get over it and be happy with what you get ? I understand that you want us to just nod and agree with you right ?

  5. #5765
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Nah, you are just a random guy with bloated sense of self-righterousness. Nothing more.
    Not sure where you're getting self-righteous when I've clearly said I'm as bad as you are. Seems like you're surprised someone spit back at you, despite your very poor attempts at banter before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaexion Ramza Beoulve View Post
    Good morning sun. Good morning birds. Good morning cancerous high elf thread. Are you ready for a full day of shitposting?
    Got started early, boss.

  6. #5766
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkishi View Post
    Not sure where you're getting self-righteous when I've clearly said I'm as bad as you are. Seems like you're surprised someone spit back at you, despite your very poor attempts at banter before.
    Nah im just amused by your attempts....at something. Mostly spewing insults.

  7. #5767
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Nah im just amused by your attempts....at something. Mostly spewing insults.
    Yeah, you seem really amused and not mad at all. Keep it up.

  8. #5768
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkishi View Post
    Yeah, you seem really amused and not mad at all. Keep it up.
    Stop.

    Answering.

    Him.

    It's.

    Useless.

    He.

    Is.

    Trolling.

    You.

  9. #5769
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Stop.

    Answering.

    Him.
    I think you've got the situation backwards, considering his reactions. He's not trolling anyone.

  10. #5770
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkishi View Post
    I think you've got the situation backwards, considering his reactions. He's not trolling anyone.
    Nah, its just you thinking you are much smarter than you really are

  11. #5771
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Nah, its just you thinking you are much smarter than you really are
    There's nothing smart about talking down to a pea-brain forum toad, I can feel the brain cells dying. You seem to think it's some big accomplishment to do this - I don't. But it is fun. Or it would be, if you didn't retreat almost immediately.

  12. #5772
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkishi View Post
    There's nothing smart about talking down to a pea-brain forum toad, I can feel the brain cells dying. You seem to think it's some big accomplishment to do this - I don't. But it is fun. Or it would be, if you didn't retreat almost immediately.
    Well you definately aren't smart, on that we can agree.

  13. #5773
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Well you definately aren't smart, on that we can agree.
    Absolutely top banter. Keep trying! You'll think of something by yourself one day.

  14. #5774
    Daily reminder, it's never going to happen.

  15. #5775
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Stop.

    Answering.

    Him.

    It's.

    Useless.

    He.

    Is.

    Trolling.

    You.
    Dont ever mention the word 'trolling' i got banned because i accused that person of that

    edit: aand here we go
    Last edited by Andromedes; 2018-05-16 at 04:27 PM.

  16. #5776
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    This line of reasoning would suggest that World of Warcraft is a Kindergarten level game in terms of complexity when it comes to its faction content. That is ridiculous at the very least and insulting to every player's intelligence at its very core.
    If you think I am saying that the player base is too stupid to comprehend a game where the factions are based on ideology rather than race, that is your mistake.

    The problem is that the factions have always been based on race and will continue to be based on race given Ion's statement that High Elves would blur the lines between the factions. Races offer distinct looks and themes that form the foundation of factional identity, especially when woven about a CORE race and theme to produce greater wholes.

    You don't get to turn the factions upside down thirteen and a half years into operation and allow everyone to play whatever race they want within whatever faction they want just to facilitate Alliance high elves.

    Maybe in World of Warcraft 2 you'll be able to make an argument that the factions should be based on ideology rather than race, but that's a long time off.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post

    And really, please, stop hiding behind the developers because at this point is just ridiculous, appeal to authority is just an easy escape to say: 'look i'm right and you are wrong because this guy who is a professional on the matter says so', and then not giving anything more factual than that, and the worst thing is that even you twist Blizzard's words to make as they said that HE aren't going to be a thing ever, tell me then what happened with Mag'har orcs and Dark Iron Dwarves, weren't they denied until today? until allied race system got introduced?

    Again, it's Blizzard's decision, not ours, what we can do is give facts about why it make or doesn't make sense, but at this point HE makes more sense than the contrary, i'm still waiting for the factor that gets rid of HE.

    If you don't even take one of the demonstrable facts that were given in 300 pages of thread as true, i'm sorry, but you are being very, very delusional at this point.

    ''look i'm right and you are wrong because this guy who is a professional on the matter says so.'

    Yes. Exactly. You are a biased fan with an agenda. You have admitted this. Your goal is to get playable Alliance High Elves. Because that is your goal, you are incapable of viewing the game holistically and making appropriate and sound judgments. For the developers, this is their job. Their expertise outweighs yours and mine. They actually know what they are talking about and have the agency to act on it. The developers are the authors of the game. And you want me to stop using what they say?

    Why? So we can argue evenly matched? I mean you have no facts, no lore, no quotes from the developers on your side. All you have is an unwarranted feeling that you have an understanding of this game that is superior to the actual developers. You want me to argue without the lore, without the word of god, without common sense?

    Just because you have nothing backing up what you say on this matter except a flawed opinion is no reason the rest of us can't use the tools available to us.

    The fact that literally every official word on the matter backs up my stance and not your own is not my problem. If you ever find a developer saying something in an official capacity backing up playable High Elves, feel free to run riot with it.

    Oh but make sure it's a real answer. Muffinus cracking a joke or a random developer posting support privately doesn't cut the mustard. It needs to be something substantial, of meaning.

    Something like the Game Director saying straight to your face Blood Elves are High Elves and the Horde is waiting for you.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2018-05-16 at 03:20 PM.

  17. #5777
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    .You don't get to turn the factions upside down thirteen and a half years into operation and allow everyone to play whatever race they want within whatever faction they want just to facilitate Alliance high elves.
    I find the assessment of the factions as being only race based to be a sad concept and far too limiting for the type of story telling and game play Blizzard has thrown at us these last decade or more.

    Sure they can turn the game upside down. That's a potential use for a reputation grind the likes of the Bloodsail Pirates would be. Difficult, long, and potentially game changing depending on how you do it. Treat it like a massive Allied Race unlock rep grind if you like to either get your specific character to be able to change sides, or be able to unlock a opposite side faction of your own race instead. Even if it isn't an nearly exact copy species like High Elf and Blood Elf, but more like the Grimtotem tribe or Leper Gnomes, or Lightbound Orcs, or Alterac Humans (the Forsaken are rebuilding there it would seem) as examples.

    It not like Blizzard is against throwing massive twists at the player base or developing new systems to enhance or even change how the game is played. They just need a way to do it, a reason to do it, and the will to do it. The player base should be smart enough to handle any changes and if the story/questing is up to it, they should be able to swing with whatever Blizzard can come up with (eventually), as long at it makes sense.

    Which has been the problem people in this thread and other places have had with Blizzard's current stance on High Elves....it doesn't make sense within their own game design and lore. Not after the Allied Race system took effect. And not while there are still High Elf NPCs working with the Alliance in more than a token quantity (one random vendor in a town, or a random guy on a corner that might be a quest giver.) With the old way of races needing a starting zone, the quest was to find a place for that to be and if a sizable population could be drawn to populate it. Now that isn't needed. Now the argument is that they look too close to Blood Elves, or the faction wall must not be blurred, thus the considerable efforts of artist to try to come up with something to address that, either by changing the High Elf model to be somewhat different, or changing the Blood Elf model to be more Light based than it already is starting to become. And before you say Void Elves, please, we've been over that many, many times. Blizzard screwed up the potential starting lore for that group by making them Blood Elves rather than High Elves, thus the problem remains. If they address this later, maybe they can salvage the situation (and no I don't mean the High Elves hanging out in the rift to study the Void....they need to push more than just that, as the implication that they are making more Void Elves is not reflected as of yet in their hub). Or if Blizzard does something with the High Elves that prevents them from being a thing going forward, that too would end this. It the dangling plot thread that remains that keep this movement going, and everyone knows that. Even Blizzard known that, and any amount of them saying "not at this time" or even "No" with poor reasoning isn't going to put this to rest. The plot element requires closure or advancement, otherwise the voices that want High Elves for the Alliance will not go away.

  18. #5778
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralqadar View Post
    So for no other reason than wanting to troll.

    Gotcha.
    Yep. And a bad one, at that. If I had to rate 0 out of 10, definitely a -1. Lacks tact, entertainment value, and subtlety.

  19. #5779
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    I find the assessment of the factions as being only race based to be a sad concept and far too limiting for the type of story telling and game play Blizzard has thrown at us these last decade or more.

    Sure they can turn the game upside down. That's a potential use for a reputation grind the likes of the Bloodsail Pirates would be. Difficult, long, and potentially game changing depending on how you do it. Treat it like a massive Allied Race unlock rep grind if you like to either get your specific character to be able to change sides, or be able to unlock a opposite side faction of your own race instead. Even if it isn't an nearly exact copy species like High Elf and Blood Elf, but more like the Grimtotem tribe or Leper Gnomes, or Lightbound Orcs, or Alterac Humans (the Forsaken are rebuilding there it would seem) as examples.
    Yet all that is just wishful thinking. You know they aren't going to do it. You can complain that the narrative they are telling doesn't suit having the factions based on race rather than ideology but that is a subjective opinion and one I disagree with it. This is a race war, pure and simple as Taran Zhu pointed out, between the haves of Azeroth and the Outcasts, and it's not going to get much more complicated than that.

    Nor should it. This is what the franchise is based on. Orc versus Human growing into Orcs and friends versus Humans and friends. At this point, changing the nature of the conflict is like asking for a third faction, to big an ask to be feasible. It's the sort of thing you do before the game launches. So that ship sailed years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    It not like Blizzard is against throwing massive twists at the player base or developing new systems to enhance or even change how the game is played. They just need a way to do it, a reason to do it, and the will to do it.
    That they have the way is obvious, as they can do whatever they want. But they clearly have no reason to do it and they definitely don't have the will.

    Battle For Azeroth is a doubling down on the current factions. They are glorying in what they have, not looking to change it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    Which has been the problem people in this thread and other places have had with Blizzard's current stance on High Elves....it doesn't make sense within their own game design and lore. Not after the Allied Race system took effect. And not while there are still High Elf NPCs working with the Alliance in more than a token quantity (one random vendor in a town, or a random guy on a corner that might be a quest giver.) With the old way of races needing a starting zone, the quest was to find a place for that to be and if a sizable population could be drawn to populate it. Now that isn't needed. Now the argument is that they look too close to Blood Elves, or the faction wall must not be blurred, thus the considerable efforts of artist to try to come up with something to address that, either by changing the High Elf model to be somewhat different, or changing the Blood Elf model to be more Light based than it already is starting to become. And before you say Void Elves, please, we've been over that many, many times. Blizzard screwed up the potential starting lore for that group by making them Blood Elves rather than High Elves, thus the problem remains. If they address this later, maybe they can salvage the situation (and no I don't mean the High Elves hanging out in the rift to study the Void....they need to push more than just that, as the implication that they are making more Void Elves is not reflected as of yet in their hub). Or if Blizzard does something with the High Elves that prevents them from being a thing going forward, that too would end this. It the dangling plot thread that remains that keep this movement going, and everyone knows that. Even Blizzard known that, and any amount of them saying "not at this time" or even "No" with poor reasoning isn't going to put this to rest. The plot element requires closure or advancement, otherwise the voices that want High Elves for the Alliance will not go away.
    And we come to meat of it, again, it's all about getting to play High Elves on the Alliance side.

    Look, Void Elves are it and are going to be it. As Taliesin said in that video the pro High Elf community got excited about before Ion laid on a cold hard dose of reality, 'they feel like an answer'. Which is precisely what they are, a thalassian model for the Alliance but with a unique feel and flavour that would not constitute a thematic intrusion into the Horde.

    That they weren't what you wanted was unfortunate, but tough.

    You aren't getting High Elves because they are already available as a Horde race. if a traditional High Elf is what you want, the Horde is there for you.

    If you can't stand the Horde, you have a High Elf variant and if that's not good enough then that can't be helped.

    But agitating for a thematic copy of a core Horde race to be added to the Alliance faction and believing it is only a matter of time because you believe there is sufficient strength of feeling is just going to leave you waiting for another thirteen years.

  20. #5780
    If the game lasts that long and I'm still playing and Blizzard has still not addressed the issue, than the wait will be just that. Waiting for Blizzard to do something about their dangling plot thread.

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