Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Traycor]

On the Druid part though have you considered the Nightborne at all? Some of them, more specifically the Grove Tenders and High Botanist Tel'arn seem to approach Druidism from the opposite direction from the side of the Arcane instead of from Nature and reaching pretty much the same result.

Very similar to a Balance druid I thought, in fact I was kinda expecting the Nightborne to have Druidism entirely because of this and their new connection to the Arcan'dor.

That's an interesting thought. I'll have to look into that idea. Thanks!

[Fyersing]

A better parallel would be Nazi Germany. I hope you are not going to invoke Godwin's law just yet, but hear me out. Nor am I saying that the Blood Elves are governed by a tyrannical regime of boundless evil.

When the regime in Germany came to power, those Germans who had the means to leave and were ideologically opposed to it did so. Many of them settled in the United States. Now, do we talk of the schism between the Germans who remained and the Germans who left as if both groups were equivalent? No we do not, because the Germans who chose to remain dwarfed the Germans who left. The Germans who left did not set up a little Germany in the US. They mostly assimilated into their host nation because they had no other choice.

Initially, I utilized the same Nazi Germany analogy. After writing it up, I noticed that the two sides (anti-Nazi Germans, pro-Nazi Germans) weren't inherently fanatical about the righteousness of their espoused political beliefs -- it was only the pro-Nazi Germans who felt this way, the others were a mix--and-match of individuals with different political ideologies and religious worldviews. The politics being the most important contention between BE's and HE's, I elected to use an analogy wherein politics (and, thus, culture) was the biggest point of contention: North Korea and South Korea.

If we were to imagine that North Korea was wildly unsuccessful in the Korean War, being pushed from the peninsula entirely and electing to attempt to maintain a government-in-exile from China, it'd almost exactly mirror the BE/HE scenario. You might ask why there would be a difference between the analogies, because in either of them one of the groups is "banished" from their traditional homeland (either Germany, or Korea) and are then forced to live among their allies (which, as you posited, would likely lead to assimilation into that predominating culture).

The difference is the political and cultural focus of the two groups of exiles. The many Germans who were opposed to the National Socialists weren't an organized group of people with a political/cultural platform in mind, they were all simply opponents of Nazism; yet, North Koreans (even in the slightly altered scenario I conceived of above) are an organized group of people with a political/cultural platform ready to be willed into being.

A large portion (perhaps, majority?) of HE's are all attached to a single organization, which operates on a political/cultural premise that is wildly (and, often, violently) at odds with the BE's. This makes them much more akin to a hypothetical government-in-exile, with very profound beliefs about the cultural/political direction needed to course-correct, than it does to a cluster of disassociated individuals seeking shelter in the arms of an ally.

The High Elves in the Alliance face a similar scenario. Day in, day out, they are surrounded by Humans. Work with Humans. Live with Humans. Engage in social interactions with Humans.

The eagerness and sincerity with which any group of migrants approaches assimilation into another culture absolutely varies. We don't have entire ethnic localities wherein a majority of the individuals are openly self-identifying as English-American, Welsh-American or Scottish-American (because people who migrated from those regions, for whatever reason, were eager and sincere about adopting the Americanisms of the day); meanwhile, we absolutely have areas where self-identification as Irish-American, Mexican-American, or African-American predominates.

You can ascribe whatever explanation you want for the varying degrees of assimilation to those groups, but groups like Jewish-Americans, Muslim-Americans, African-Americans, Chinese-Americans, or Japanese-Americans show that when a group has a set of fundamental political/cultural understandings that are collectively viewed as having value, such understandings can easily be maintained within the aggregate via special emphasis alone.

They simply do not have the numbers to maintain a distinct culture. It has been hinted I believe that far from the Quel'Dorei creating a vibrant and unique culture of their own, one that contrasts with the traditional thalassian elf way of life embodied by the Blood Elves, that they are being assimilated into Human society. This is not surprising given their circumstances.

A "distinct culture" requires only two individuals -- let's be real.

The gist of what you've said is, of course, agreeable. They're absolutely being assimilated into whichever societies they're living within (Human). I'd only assert that it's likely they're more akin to Jewish-Americans than they are akin to Welsh-Americans, in that while friendly and amicable they have very clear traditionalisms that they won't abandon.

I think it is very clear where Blizzard is going with the High Elves.

Either they will all die at some point, or they will be marginalised as blue eyed, pointy eared Humans.

The first option is probably more likely, but the second one doesn't really stand on it's own as reasoning for them not being included within the narrative.

As you probably recall, it's my belief that it would be better for the overall narrative if HE's were forcibly integrated into the Void Elves (or begrudgingly re-integrated into the Blood Elves). It would be less disappointed for them to be integrated into the VE's, if only because Blizzard has included HE's as a narrative device for the Alliance for 10+ years now and it'd be nice to at least keep those handful of characters, but it'd also be interesting to see the narrative ramifications of someone like Vereesa or Auric Sunchaser easing their way into BE society.

This is of course an opportunity for a Half Elf allied race. High Elves have been working alongside the Alliance in one capacity or another now for several decades. I see no reason why Half Elves could not be an option. They would use the Human base model, true, but they would have pointy ears and the glowing blue eyes beloved of the High Elf fan.

In my opinion, it is Half Elves that should be asked for. It is the one viable future Alliance High Elves have.

I'm personally a fan of the HE's position within the overall narrative, and not specifically their model, so this would be agreeable to me as long as they maintained as much of the HE's cultural peculiarities as possible. I could see their Customization Options being Skin Color, Face, Hair Color, Hair Style, Facial Hair, and Ear Shape -- with the latter being a gradient from "mostly human" to "mostly elf". This opens the door for a whole bunch of covfefe with half-races, though.

[Syegfryed]

Void Elven lore is just REALLY unsatisfying. They have no geography, they don't feel like a race, but a cult. High Elves have that 'racial' feeling. They have geography, they have tons of development (between MoP, cata and WoTLK) and they have been hotly requested. It's honestly nuts that they aren't an allied race, and I think they will be eventually if Blizzard doesn't end up killing them off.

this totally subject, any source of lore say they are not even remotely a race stand alone anymore, and are "remnants of the remnants of a dying race" and would be absorbed by the humans . what geography they have if not small huts? at least the void elves have telorus rift

HE development was just to build up blood elf lore as antagonists

IF they rly want put HE they would do it now, they of course though about add then, but they could not, and chose the void elves instead trying to appease the alliance

And they are prob thinking about kill veressa too, if the theories about teldrassil are right

[Syegfryed]

It could be Vereesa, but I think it's a bit of a stretch for the High Elves to be defending Teldrassil. Doesn't make much sense given development up until now has them at odds. The lighting makes it very difficult to tell.

i could agree with you on this before mop, but after wod and legion, every asspull of lore is possible if they think is cool

I really hope it's not Vereesa, though. I don't think it is either, given that it's not really her outfit. It still feels like a pretty big slap in the face if they DID just kill her off to say 'THERE, NO MORE HIGH ELVES '

i hope it is because:
1) will foment more faction war between the windrunners, maybe they can kill each other
2) it will finally end (or at leas try) the high elves requests

when they said many times it was not possible, and people keep going on, they would need some "drastic changes"

Geography wise, it'd be very nice if they had a village, or at least something more substantial than some rocks. A lodge would be better. They have no feeling of permanency, like they have no place in Azeroth and it irks me so bad.

they will have one, eventually, its too early, like or not they come to stay

Also, I think Blizzard made the Void Elves exiled Blood Elves instead of the Silver Covenant because they wanted to leave the door open to them in the future.

this is a point of view, OR they just don't even consider the HE a thing, irrelevant/insignificant, despite the headcanon of the fans, and after saying for years they would not have enough number and other excuses, they would pass for liars, from blood elves they potentially would have more numbers more characters and they could put a lore in that

honestly VE are the coffin lid, cause if they rly and want to put then,(and sure hell they knew people want it) they would do it without a asspull race now

if they add HE it will diminish the VE lore, and they will not focus on 2 elf races, and would not do a entirely new race to be scrapped by a "better" race, it would be like add the maghar from outland, just brown orcs with nothing more

If they do intend to add 8+ of them each expansion, it's only a matter of time before they swing back and do it. Whether it's next expansion, or the expansion after, we'll get em' eventually, so long as there is no crazy genocide.

in this expansion the chances are 0% with all this elf fatigue, the only way to happens in next expansions is if they change the game directory as a whole

The excuse "They are just blood elves with blue eyes" is such a silly one too, it's like saying "Mag'har are just orcs... if you want to play a mag'har, just make an orc! it's the same thing!" Except it's not, because they, like High Elves, are politically distinct and have their own unique form of society.

you can't just compare maghar, who are uncorrupted by demon blood, from another dimension and timeline and have like 5-6 distinct cultures, to elves who just have eyes and politics different

and unique form of society would be what? since most of then get absorbed by human society were they live?

[Syegfryed]

If a race has enough people that they can make nameless NPC's (i.e) 'High Elf Mage', there is enough of them to let the player character be one. It would have been less of an asspull to say 'Hey, Alleria knew about this Island of High Elves, and she is going to go ask them to join the Alliance!'. Furthermore, the Void Elves were a small population created through a very specific, thus far unreplicated ritual. Using Void magic didn't turn them into Void Elves, it was an Ethereal who did it. Blizzard didn't even try to disguise this as 'The Void Elves outnumber the High Elves', because the High Elves have several settlements full of their people, Highvale, Dalaran, Stormwind, and the Farstrider Lodge in Loch Modan, among other places.

Again, before MOp i would not argue with about what line would be best, i agree, but now we need to realize they will do anything if they find cool enough.

It is unquestionable that HE are "dying almost extinct race" they just made a poor job showing ingame, cause ingame things is not a good parameter to determinate population size in canon, like he world is full ofs BE in damn anywhere

if there is 90% blood elf and 10% high elf, we can assume there is more BE renegades who became void elf than a "dying almost exinc race" who is spread around the world, who their population is more about civilian than fighters or soldiers

The population thing isn't a justification, I think if Blizzard doesn't massacre them in BFA then they are incredibly likely to come sometime further down the line.

the population is one of the excuses, that alone would no weight indeed.

all the odds show they will not come ever, until something internal in blizzard happens, and i bet directory change or if they ever decide to end the faction restriction.

[Deleted]

This obsession with High Elves is becoming a disease.

[Aeula]

This obsession with High Elves is becoming a disease.

It's already a disease. Hopefully Blizzard will cut it out by having High Elves slaughtered to extinction at Teldrassil.

[Deleted]

It's already a disease. Hopefully Blizzard will cut it out by having High Elves slaughtered to extinction at Teldrassil.

We can only hope.

Btw what about this :

1. All High Elves get killed during Teldrassil burning.
2. Sylvanas ress them as undead elves.
3. We get another allied race and we balance the elf ratio between faction

Belf Uelf - Nelf Velf


Gg

[Aeula]

We can only hope.

Btw what about this :

1. All High Elves get killed during Teldrassil burning.
2. Sylvanas ress them as undead elves.
3. We get another allied race and we balance the elf ratio between faction

Belf Uelf - Nelf Velf


Gg

Perfect, then everyone's happy.

Horde get Undead High Elves, Alliance get Void Night Elves.

[Lumineus]

We can only hope.

Btw what about this :

1. All High Elves get killed during Teldrassil burning.
2. Sylvanas ress them as undead elves.
3. We get another allied race and we balance the elf ratio between faction

Belf Uelf - Nelf Velf


Gg

So I guess Nightborne will be deleted then? Or did you forget how to count?

[Cosmic Janitor]

On the Druid part though have you considered the Nightborne at all? Some of them, more specifically the Grove Tenders and High Botanist Tel'arn seem to approach Druidism from the opposite direction from the side of the Arcane instead of from Nature and reaching pretty much the same result.

Very similar to a Balance druid I thought, in fact I was kinda expecting the Nightborne to have Druidism entirely because of this and their new connection to the Arcan'dor.

I had hoped for at least one not horribly ugly race on horde to be druids as well, but if not for some perceived lore reasons, blizzard did surely scrap any notion of that by half-assing nightborn to push them out the door as fast as possible (see customization options..) to release them with the other allied-races.

[Deleted]

So I guess Nightborne will be deleted then? Or did you forget how to count?

Ah fuck...

Well so let rephrase it


Dead High Elves became H
Survivors High Elves became A

3:3

[Cosmic Janitor]

Perfect, then everyone's happy.

Horde get Undead High Elves, Alliance get Void Night Elves.

I love the idea. After all Blizzard showed incredible ingenuity by giving people that wanted high-elves exactly what they not asked for .

[Deleted]

Ah fuck...

Well so let rephrase it


Dead High Elves became H
Survivors High Elves became A

3:3

Forsaken Elves are the most asked for Horde Race that isn't made an Allied race.

[RangerDaz]

Ah fuck...

Well so let rephrase it


Dead High Elves became H
Survivors High Elves became A

3:3

Well i did post this in 300 post before (or something like that):


Elves in Alliance:
- Night Elves
- Void Elves
- High Elves


Elves in Horde:
- Blood Elves
- Nightborne
- Undead Elves


And they all exist in Lore, so nothing new.



Here are my ideas for the High Elves (Alliance) vs. Undead Elves (Horde) Classes:


High Elves Classes (Elven Rangers, Sorcerers and Priests):
- Warrior (Swordsman)
- Hunter (Ranger)
- Rogue (Stealthed Ranger)
- Priest (Holy Priest)
- Mage (classic high elf)
- Paladin (some belonged to the Silver Hand order)
- Monk (they became friends with the Pandaren)

NO Death Knights! All Quel'thalas Death Knights are Blood Elf or San'layn / undead elves.
Undead High Elves became San'layn or Blood Elf Death Knights. See: Sylvanas (best example) and dark rangers.
(Also: Void elves originated from living blood elves. Death knight Void Elves would be visually redundant to Blood Elf / Undead Elf Death knights as well)



Undead Elves Classes (Dark Ranger / San'layn / Vampiric ghostly elves):
- Warrior (Swordsman)
- Hunter (Dark Ranger)
- Rogue (Assassin)
- Priest (Shadow Priest)
- Mage (hunger for magic)
- Death Knight (Unholy Paladin... duh!) - Must be different (more rotten / evil?) from Blood Elf Death Knights
- Warlock (Affliction / Destruction Warlocks, drain soul and health)

No Monks... Pandaren do not share the same ideals of Vampire Elves!


Excluded Classes:
- Druid (their druid ancestors remained with the night elves)
- Shaman (no connection to the elements like all the other elves)
- Demon Hunter (well... If they had become friends with Illidan before, maybe ...)



Visual concepts of the new allied races: High Elves and Undead Elves









Concept of Undead Elves (dark rangers, San'layn):

[orukam]

Thnks, Northem


- - - Updated - - -

I quote this so you can read it again... It's pretty simple and understandable.

Thnks, Northem

[Chizitzz]

This is the first post about High Elves that I actually like. It makes sense, and isn't just whining. I like!

[Traycor]

This is the first post about High Elves that I actually like. It makes sense, and isn't just whining. I like!

Thank you! It's always better to have a productive conversation that tries to find solutions. That was the intent here.

[Fyersing]

So I guess Nightborne will be deleted then? Or did you forget how to count?

Ha, this was my initial thought as well.

They really missed the mark insofar as faction identity with Blood Elves/Nightborne, IMO. The first volume of the Warcraft Chronicle lays the foundation for all of elfkind begrudgingly working in tandem to maintain geopolitical dominance over their greatest historical adversary: trolls. It would've been a good move, in terms of identity, for the Alliance to be maintained as the "faction for elves" and the Horde to blossom as the "faction for trolls".

Now, instead, the Horde is limping along in popularity by borrowing from the Alliance. I expect that, long-term, it would've been a better choice for the Horde to receive Forest Trolls/Dark Trolls in lieu of Blood Elves/Nightborne, respectively.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the color scheme is nice. It could be the fact that I come from the Pacific Northwest, where we see Seattle Seahawks and Cascadia Now stuff everywhere. :P

[KyrtF]

To the summary "i want to scrap every bit of existing lore about race, so they can fit my tastes and be abomination of lore, without any actual proof that they are so different, because in some mystic ways they changed in less that 1 generation (elves are not humans. they don't "breed" with such speed)"

And yet noone raises an eyebrow over the speed of change in Orcs, BElfs, Forsaken and others?

- - - Updated - - -

But isn't the act of creating VE's just that?

No..it isn't. Because the possibility of getting High Elfs on the Alliance side still exists

So what you're asking for is nothing but HE's in name due to asking for different model, look, racials, etc etc.

Key point being that the faction identity of High Elfs would remain intact while setting it on a course that would emphasise the differences.

To which you forget there is no reason for them to be radically different from BE's.

Which is nonsensical given the trials and tribulations the High Elfs have suffered.