1. #5821
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    Goes to show Blizz's limitless ignorance, considering they had no qualms with giving Pandaren to both.
    This has been discussed countless times. Numerous posters keep bringing up the Pandaren example and keep getting the same response.

    Neutral Pandaren were a mistake and proved neutrality does not work, it comes at too great a cost to the identity of the faction and inhibits the story of the neutral race.

    Blizzard hasn't added a neutral race in six years, one of the lead devs at the time said the concept had problems and allied races allow blizzard to introduce new faction specific races on the cheap.

  2. #5822
    Elemental Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkrypt View Post
    Got to the part where you said you weren't debating for High Elves and I figured the rest is TL;DR. Not really interested in the same old stale "I'm right, you're just too stupid to understand me" bullshit you keep spewing to everyone you quote. You're just here to satisfy your defeated ego. I'm here to discuss why the Alliance shouldn't have access to the Blood Elves that belong to the Horde faction. Until you're ready to discuss High Elves and not stroke yourself, I wouldn't bother quoting me. You won't receive a response.
    I am sorry .. are you the only one allowed to "stroke their ego"? It's funny you think your argument has actually been better ... it's cute. You do know I have never been arguing for High Elves to be playable, but rather than the reason they aren't are bullshit.

    But you basically just proved me right here, so I guess there is no reason for you to continue to reply.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2018-05-17 at 10:41 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  3. #5823
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnagefiend View Post
    I feel like Blizzard needs to have Vareesa Windrunner killed, the Silver Covenant dissolved, and indicate that remaining high elves are joining their brethren because of significant disagreements with Alleria and her Ren'dorei.

    Give Blood Elves blue, green, and gold eyes and boom: problem solved.

    While I agree with your posts, I don't think their truths are demonstrated in-game as a whole. The political "High" Elves of the Silver Covenant are (in my mind) the sole reason this debate keeps raging. Blizz can easily put it to bed, and make something compelling with it.
    I keep seeing this suggestion.

    You know, I agree on the level that it would finally bring the debate to a close but on the other hand how monumentally asinine a result that would be.

    The Silver Covenant are a storytelling prop, a tool with which Blizzard has, on occasion, advanced the narrative.

    They reflect a tiny group of thalassian elves that betrayed their homeland and chose the Alliance over Quel'thalas. They are not a major force in the Alliance, they have no real influence or impact, but they do exist.

    I have no problem with the Silver Covenant as a storytelling tool. Or Veressa. It would be akin to me having a problem with the Reliquary or the Kor'kron or SI:7.

    Yet because they can't playable and because they won't be playable, we have to demand they all be killed off because some players are upset that they can't play the race they represent within the Alliance?

    I mean I am for it just to shut this debate down but looking at it dispassionately it's basically asking Blizzard to contrive to wipe out a storytelling tool for no real reason other than sour grapes.

    Frankly it wouldn't surprise me if Blizzard kept using them and just ignored the requests for playable High Elves in future.

  4. #5824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    the only ignorance here would be yours, they already explained what they did)
    They explained nothing, Hazzi is an ignorant Horde fanboi, that's all there's to it.

  5. #5825
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    They explained nothing, Hazzi is an ignorant Horde fanboi, that's all there's to it.
    They explained it multiple times, how can you attack someone for your own inability to listen or read?
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  6. #5826
    eh this thread still going? and again with "pandaren" thing... eh
    but why i am asking if now their HE discord disscusing how "faction" are meaningless, how they are just "football clubs", and that destroying them is good, and that ESO have every race on every faction and "noone cares"...

  7. #5827
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    I keep seeing this suggestion.

    You know, I agree on the level that it would finally bring the debate to a close but on the other hand how monumentally asinine a result that would be.

    The Silver Covenant are a storytelling prop, a tool with which Blizzard has, on occasion, advanced the narrative.

    They reflect a tiny group of thalassian elves that betrayed their homeland and chose the Alliance over Quel'thalas. They are not a major force in the Alliance, they have no real influence or impact, but they do exist.

    I have no problem with the Silver Covenant as a storytelling tool. Or Veressa. It would be akin to me having a problem with the Reliquary or the Kor'kron or SI:7.

    Yet because they can't playable and because they won't be playable, we have to demand they all be killed off because some players are upset that they can't play the race they represent within the Alliance?

    I mean I am for it just to shut this debate down but looking at it dispassionately it's basically asking Blizzard to contrive to wipe out a storytelling tool for no real reason other than sour grapes.

    Frankly it wouldn't surprise me if Blizzard kept using them and just ignored the requests for playable High Elves in future.
    Well, the intent isn't to get rid of the High Elves amongst the Alliance, I guess is really what I'm getting at. I just don't really see the Silver Covenant being at the FRONT of the engagements, time-after-time. I guess what I would like to see represented is attrition in the ranks. I find it just a tad absurd that a splinter group of High Elves lasting through every conflict since the Northrend wars.

    The reason I brought up the Ren'dorei was to sort of flesh out their place in Warcraft's political universe, and not to leave the High Elves high-and-dry.

    Hell, what if we kept the Silver Covenant but most of their members are now humans? Half Elves? I dunno, the point I'm trying to get here isn't about sour grapes, its about storytelling a living, breathing, developing, evolving world.

  8. #5828
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnagefiend View Post
    Well, the intent isn't to get rid of the High Elves amongst the Alliance, I guess is really what I'm getting at. I just don't really see the Silver Covenant being at the FRONT of the engagements, time-after-time. I guess what I would like to see represented is attrition in the ranks. I find it just a tad absurd that a splinter group of High Elves lasting through every conflict since the Northrend wars.

    The reason I brought up the Ren'dorei was to sort of flesh out their place in Warcraft's political universe, and not to leave the High Elves high-and-dry.

    Hell, what if we kept the Silver Covenant but most of their members are now humans? Half Elves? I dunno, the point I'm trying to get here isn't about sour grapes, its about storytelling a living, breathing, developing, evolving world.
    Yeah I sympathise. I too believe the Silver Covenant should be gotten rid of if only to bring this interminable debate to an end, but it just seems silly that the rationale behind getting rid of them is to stop the High Elf debate.

    I'd prefer if they were seen for what they are, a story telling tool and that it was left at that. And it's not sour grapes from you, but sour grapes from the pro High Elf community who feel that if High Elves can't be playable, they should be dead. As I said I wouldn't mind seeing them dead now just to end the debate, but it's a blunt response.

  9. #5829
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    Guys.

    Hear me out.

    High Elves will never be playable.

    Bye.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  10. #5830
    Pandaren Monk Melsiren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Guys.

    Hear me out.

    High Elves will never be playable.

    Bye.
    Zul wait!!!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    High elf fans are basically flat-earth society of warcraft lore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Alleria Windrunner View Post
    I AM the victim.

  11. #5831
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyersing View Post
    ...hear me out on this, boys and girls.

    What if the reason Blizzard elected to go with Void Elves (and not High Elves) wasn't because they were too similar, but because they're planning on finally pulling the trigger on Blood Elves joining the Alliance?

    This solves all issues of nuance in a single stroke.
    Honestly. I suspect they DO have HE plans but doubt this..

    I DO however kind of wonder of they are going to remove the faction wall period given this expansion is supposrd to wrap up the faction wars or somesuch(very old thing about bfa)

  12. #5832
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Honestly. I suspect they DO have HE plans but doubt this..

    I DO however kind of wonder of they are going to remove the faction wall period given this expansion is supposrd to wrap up the faction wars or somesuch(very old thing about bfa)
    It was Alex Afrasiabi who said something to the effect of, "we wanted to give the faction conflict one last hurrah". Not exactly concrete evidence of any directives on their part, but maybe.

  13. #5833
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    I love how much discussion this has all sparked and with more new info coming in BfA there's still more to be discussed lol

  14. #5834
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    Its an endless discussion with no real outcome that will please the high elf fans. Its cute they continue just to keep this thread.. they should just close this, I mean if you look at the last couple pages you only see the pandaren argument or void elf one. There is nothing to discuss realy.

  15. #5835
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Honestly. I suspect they DO have HE plans but doubt this..

    I DO however kind of wonder of they are going to remove the faction wall period given this expansion is supposrd to wrap up the faction wars or somesuch(very old thing about bfa)
    They don't have HE plans, if by high elves you mean Alliance high elves becoming playable.

    They bluntly told you they have no HE plans.

    Saying 'I think they have HE plans' after they bluntly tell you they don't isn't even grasping at straws. There is no straw to grasp.



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Its an endless discussion with no real outcome that will please the high elf fans. Its cute they continue just to keep this thread.. they should just close this, I mean if you look at the last couple pages you only see the pandaren argument or void elf one. There is nothing to discuss realy.
    I suspect this thread is kept open for one reason only, to contain this never ending discussion. Prior to it's existence there were multiple pro High Elf threads as everyone and their mother came up with some new angle they felt justified another new thread, yet it always rapidly devolved back into the same topic and arguments.

    By keeping this megathread open, the moderators probably think they are sparing the rest of the forums from being overwhelmed by countless High Elf threads. The moderators on the official forums took a similar stance as well recently and they now actively lock or delete High Elf topics outside of one main one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyersing View Post
    It was Alex Afrasiabi who said something to the effect of, "we wanted to give the faction conflict one last hurrah". Not exactly concrete evidence of any directives on their part, but maybe.
    Source please, because I have never heard that said.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2018-05-18 at 09:20 AM.

  16. #5836
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post

    Source please, because I have never heard that said.
    Maybe referring to this:

    https://www.pcgamer.com/blizzard-ans...e-for-azeroth/

    PC Gamer: For a long time the conflict between the Alliance and the Horde has been ignored in favor of dealing with external threats, like the Burning Legion. Why is now the right time to respark the animosity that started it all?

    Alex Afrasiabi: We feel the Alliance-Horde divide is foundational and fundamental to World of Warcraft as a franchise and as a story, but we danced around it for a very long time. We've had run-ins, we've had close calls, but we've never been able to finish it—to have that resolution. We're coming out of this expansion, Legion, and the world is not in a great place—the players and the factions themselves are not in a great place because there is all of this old animosity that hasn't been resolved. It's time to resolve it.


    As these battles begin to play out, what are the consequences for one side or the other?

    Ion Hazzikostas: We are willing to permanently change the world where it makes sense and where it helps push that story forward. Actions need to have consequences.

  17. #5837
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfurion View Post
    The possibility of a resolution exists, but this is far from saying BFA is the 'last hurrah' for the faction war. The conflict could easily persist in the same or a new configuration once the plot of BFA plays out.

    After all, BFA is the second Horde-Alliance War in the lifetime of WoW and the last one didn't end the conflict either.

  18. #5838
    Quote Originally Posted by Garfurion View Post
    That makes sense from a character perspective, sure. Not so much from a franchise one. My interpretation would be that after a long period of relative peace, Sylvanas and Anduin feel that it's necessary to seek that resolution directly. Afrasiabi almost always describes character motivations in terms of when they make their choices. "It's time to resolve it" makes sense in the moment that Sylvanas and Anduin decide on total war, but that does not mean that they will achieve their goals.

    Instead, Afrasiabi explains that the Alliance-Horde conflict is the foundation of World of Warcraft (I think there are some posters in this thread who should take note of that) and that it hasn't been approached directly for a long time. Rather than ending that conflict, it gives them an opportunity to focus on it, and give it further development.

  19. #5839
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protip View Post
    That makes sense from a character perspective, sure. Not so much from a franchise one. My interpretation would be that after a long period of relative peace, Sylvanas and Anduin feel that it's necessary to seek that resolution directly. Afrasiabi almost always describes character motivations in terms of when they make their choices. "It's time to resolve it" makes sense in the moment that Sylvanas and Anduin decide on total war, but that does not mean that they will achieve their goals.

    Instead, Afrasiabi explains that the Alliance-Horde conflict is the foundation of World of Warcraft (I think there are some posters in this thread who should take note of that) and that it hasn't been approached directly for a long time. Rather than ending that conflict, it gives them an opportunity to focus on it, and give it further development.
    Absolutely.

    I have no doubt that after Battle for Azeroth the faction conflict will fade away again, particularly if we are launched headlong into a struggle against the Old Gods and their Void Lord masters.

    But the conflict between the Alliance and the Horde is the pillar upon which the game is built, the foundation stone. The conflict may blow hot or it may blow cold, but it will always be with us in one form or another.

    There are many fictional factions in videogaming, but none are as iconic as the brands of the Alliance and Horde. Blizzard would have to be completely off their rocker to want to end that.

  20. #5840
    Or maybe they have a new direction they want to take this story that no longer suits the factions are they are now. They did say something about 'what does it matter who wins the war if there is nothing left'.

    Could it be possible that going forwards, the Alliance and the Horde are too small of factions to make and sort of real difference? With the defeat of the Burning Legion, we could be heading off to greater or at least more interesting threats (The Void, the Light, whatever). What if we need to stand together, As the faction of Azeroth against everything else?

    Oddly, in thinking of that I can see an odd outcome for the war. The Alliance surrendering in order to save the world. I could see Anduin doing that. And somehow I think that would upset Sylvanas.
    Last edited by Ithekro; 2018-05-18 at 02:21 PM.

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