1. #5821
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkishi View Post
    I think you've got the situation backwards, considering his reactions. He's not trolling anyone.
    Nah, its just you thinking you are much smarter than you really are

  2. #5822
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Nah, its just you thinking you are much smarter than you really are
    There's nothing smart about talking down to a pea-brain forum toad, I can feel the brain cells dying. You seem to think it's some big accomplishment to do this - I don't. But it is fun. Or it would be, if you didn't retreat almost immediately.

  3. #5823
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkishi View Post
    There's nothing smart about talking down to a pea-brain forum toad, I can feel the brain cells dying. You seem to think it's some big accomplishment to do this - I don't. But it is fun. Or it would be, if you didn't retreat almost immediately.
    Well you definately aren't smart, on that we can agree.

  4. #5824
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Well you definately aren't smart, on that we can agree.
    Absolutely top banter. Keep trying! You'll think of something by yourself one day.

  5. #5825
    Daily reminder, it's never going to happen.

  6. #5826
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Stop.

    Answering.

    Him.

    It's.

    Useless.

    He.

    Is.

    Trolling.

    You.
    Dont ever mention the word 'trolling' i got banned because i accused that person of that

    edit: aand here we go
    Last edited by Andromedes; 2018-05-16 at 04:27 PM.

  7. #5827
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    This line of reasoning would suggest that World of Warcraft is a Kindergarten level game in terms of complexity when it comes to its faction content. That is ridiculous at the very least and insulting to every player's intelligence at its very core.
    If you think I am saying that the player base is too stupid to comprehend a game where the factions are based on ideology rather than race, that is your mistake.

    The problem is that the factions have always been based on race and will continue to be based on race given Ion's statement that High Elves would blur the lines between the factions. Races offer distinct looks and themes that form the foundation of factional identity, especially when woven about a CORE race and theme to produce greater wholes.

    You don't get to turn the factions upside down thirteen and a half years into operation and allow everyone to play whatever race they want within whatever faction they want just to facilitate Alliance high elves.

    Maybe in World of Warcraft 2 you'll be able to make an argument that the factions should be based on ideology rather than race, but that's a long time off.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post

    And really, please, stop hiding behind the developers because at this point is just ridiculous, appeal to authority is just an easy escape to say: 'look i'm right and you are wrong because this guy who is a professional on the matter says so', and then not giving anything more factual than that, and the worst thing is that even you twist Blizzard's words to make as they said that HE aren't going to be a thing ever, tell me then what happened with Mag'har orcs and Dark Iron Dwarves, weren't they denied until today? until allied race system got introduced?

    Again, it's Blizzard's decision, not ours, what we can do is give facts about why it make or doesn't make sense, but at this point HE makes more sense than the contrary, i'm still waiting for the factor that gets rid of HE.

    If you don't even take one of the demonstrable facts that were given in 300 pages of thread as true, i'm sorry, but you are being very, very delusional at this point.

    ''look i'm right and you are wrong because this guy who is a professional on the matter says so.'

    Yes. Exactly. You are a biased fan with an agenda. You have admitted this. Your goal is to get playable Alliance High Elves. Because that is your goal, you are incapable of viewing the game holistically and making appropriate and sound judgments. For the developers, this is their job. Their expertise outweighs yours and mine. They actually know what they are talking about and have the agency to act on it. The developers are the authors of the game. And you want me to stop using what they say?

    Why? So we can argue evenly matched? I mean you have no facts, no lore, no quotes from the developers on your side. All you have is an unwarranted feeling that you have an understanding of this game that is superior to the actual developers. You want me to argue without the lore, without the word of god, without common sense?

    Just because you have nothing backing up what you say on this matter except a flawed opinion is no reason the rest of us can't use the tools available to us.

    The fact that literally every official word on the matter backs up my stance and not your own is not my problem. If you ever find a developer saying something in an official capacity backing up playable High Elves, feel free to run riot with it.

    Oh but make sure it's a real answer. Muffinus cracking a joke or a random developer posting support privately doesn't cut the mustard. It needs to be something substantial, of meaning.

    Something like the Game Director saying straight to your face Blood Elves are High Elves and the Horde is waiting for you.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2018-05-16 at 03:20 PM.

  8. #5828
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    .You don't get to turn the factions upside down thirteen and a half years into operation and allow everyone to play whatever race they want within whatever faction they want just to facilitate Alliance high elves.
    I find the assessment of the factions as being only race based to be a sad concept and far too limiting for the type of story telling and game play Blizzard has thrown at us these last decade or more.

    Sure they can turn the game upside down. That's a potential use for a reputation grind the likes of the Bloodsail Pirates would be. Difficult, long, and potentially game changing depending on how you do it. Treat it like a massive Allied Race unlock rep grind if you like to either get your specific character to be able to change sides, or be able to unlock a opposite side faction of your own race instead. Even if it isn't an nearly exact copy species like High Elf and Blood Elf, but more like the Grimtotem tribe or Leper Gnomes, or Lightbound Orcs, or Alterac Humans (the Forsaken are rebuilding there it would seem) as examples.

    It not like Blizzard is against throwing massive twists at the player base or developing new systems to enhance or even change how the game is played. They just need a way to do it, a reason to do it, and the will to do it. The player base should be smart enough to handle any changes and if the story/questing is up to it, they should be able to swing with whatever Blizzard can come up with (eventually), as long at it makes sense.

    Which has been the problem people in this thread and other places have had with Blizzard's current stance on High Elves....it doesn't make sense within their own game design and lore. Not after the Allied Race system took effect. And not while there are still High Elf NPCs working with the Alliance in more than a token quantity (one random vendor in a town, or a random guy on a corner that might be a quest giver.) With the old way of races needing a starting zone, the quest was to find a place for that to be and if a sizable population could be drawn to populate it. Now that isn't needed. Now the argument is that they look too close to Blood Elves, or the faction wall must not be blurred, thus the considerable efforts of artist to try to come up with something to address that, either by changing the High Elf model to be somewhat different, or changing the Blood Elf model to be more Light based than it already is starting to become. And before you say Void Elves, please, we've been over that many, many times. Blizzard screwed up the potential starting lore for that group by making them Blood Elves rather than High Elves, thus the problem remains. If they address this later, maybe they can salvage the situation (and no I don't mean the High Elves hanging out in the rift to study the Void....they need to push more than just that, as the implication that they are making more Void Elves is not reflected as of yet in their hub). Or if Blizzard does something with the High Elves that prevents them from being a thing going forward, that too would end this. It the dangling plot thread that remains that keep this movement going, and everyone knows that. Even Blizzard known that, and any amount of them saying "not at this time" or even "No" with poor reasoning isn't going to put this to rest. The plot element requires closure or advancement, otherwise the voices that want High Elves for the Alliance will not go away.

  9. #5829
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralqadar View Post
    So for no other reason than wanting to troll.

    Gotcha.
    Yep. And a bad one, at that. If I had to rate 0 out of 10, definitely a -1. Lacks tact, entertainment value, and subtlety.

  10. #5830
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    I find the assessment of the factions as being only race based to be a sad concept and far too limiting for the type of story telling and game play Blizzard has thrown at us these last decade or more.

    Sure they can turn the game upside down. That's a potential use for a reputation grind the likes of the Bloodsail Pirates would be. Difficult, long, and potentially game changing depending on how you do it. Treat it like a massive Allied Race unlock rep grind if you like to either get your specific character to be able to change sides, or be able to unlock a opposite side faction of your own race instead. Even if it isn't an nearly exact copy species like High Elf and Blood Elf, but more like the Grimtotem tribe or Leper Gnomes, or Lightbound Orcs, or Alterac Humans (the Forsaken are rebuilding there it would seem) as examples.
    Yet all that is just wishful thinking. You know they aren't going to do it. You can complain that the narrative they are telling doesn't suit having the factions based on race rather than ideology but that is a subjective opinion and one I disagree with it. This is a race war, pure and simple as Taran Zhu pointed out, between the haves of Azeroth and the Outcasts, and it's not going to get much more complicated than that.

    Nor should it. This is what the franchise is based on. Orc versus Human growing into Orcs and friends versus Humans and friends. At this point, changing the nature of the conflict is like asking for a third faction, to big an ask to be feasible. It's the sort of thing you do before the game launches. So that ship sailed years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    It not like Blizzard is against throwing massive twists at the player base or developing new systems to enhance or even change how the game is played. They just need a way to do it, a reason to do it, and the will to do it.
    That they have the way is obvious, as they can do whatever they want. But they clearly have no reason to do it and they definitely don't have the will.

    Battle For Azeroth is a doubling down on the current factions. They are glorying in what they have, not looking to change it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    Which has been the problem people in this thread and other places have had with Blizzard's current stance on High Elves....it doesn't make sense within their own game design and lore. Not after the Allied Race system took effect. And not while there are still High Elf NPCs working with the Alliance in more than a token quantity (one random vendor in a town, or a random guy on a corner that might be a quest giver.) With the old way of races needing a starting zone, the quest was to find a place for that to be and if a sizable population could be drawn to populate it. Now that isn't needed. Now the argument is that they look too close to Blood Elves, or the faction wall must not be blurred, thus the considerable efforts of artist to try to come up with something to address that, either by changing the High Elf model to be somewhat different, or changing the Blood Elf model to be more Light based than it already is starting to become. And before you say Void Elves, please, we've been over that many, many times. Blizzard screwed up the potential starting lore for that group by making them Blood Elves rather than High Elves, thus the problem remains. If they address this later, maybe they can salvage the situation (and no I don't mean the High Elves hanging out in the rift to study the Void....they need to push more than just that, as the implication that they are making more Void Elves is not reflected as of yet in their hub). Or if Blizzard does something with the High Elves that prevents them from being a thing going forward, that too would end this. It the dangling plot thread that remains that keep this movement going, and everyone knows that. Even Blizzard known that, and any amount of them saying "not at this time" or even "No" with poor reasoning isn't going to put this to rest. The plot element requires closure or advancement, otherwise the voices that want High Elves for the Alliance will not go away.
    And we come to meat of it, again, it's all about getting to play High Elves on the Alliance side.

    Look, Void Elves are it and are going to be it. As Taliesin said in that video the pro High Elf community got excited about before Ion laid on a cold hard dose of reality, 'they feel like an answer'. Which is precisely what they are, a thalassian model for the Alliance but with a unique feel and flavour that would not constitute a thematic intrusion into the Horde.

    That they weren't what you wanted was unfortunate, but tough.

    You aren't getting High Elves because they are already available as a Horde race. if a traditional High Elf is what you want, the Horde is there for you.

    If you can't stand the Horde, you have a High Elf variant and if that's not good enough then that can't be helped.

    But agitating for a thematic copy of a core Horde race to be added to the Alliance faction and believing it is only a matter of time because you believe there is sufficient strength of feeling is just going to leave you waiting for another thirteen years.

  11. #5831
    If the game lasts that long and I'm still playing and Blizzard has still not addressed the issue, than the wait will be just that. Waiting for Blizzard to do something about their dangling plot thread.

  12. #5832
    there is no issue.
    you were told no.
    you just refuse to listen
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  13. #5833
    Issue: High Elf NPCs in numbers. In the Alliance. They are there. They aren't playable for, frankly, inane reasons. They serve only to tease players now. That's the issue. The constant tease.

  14. #5834
    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    Issue: High Elf NPCs in numbers. In the Alliance. They are there. They aren't playable for, frankly, inane reasons. They serve only to tease players now. That's the issue. The constant tease.
    they are slowly being killed off
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  15. #5835
    Bloodsail Admiral Nexsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    Issue: High Elf NPCs in numbers. In the Alliance. They are there. They aren't playable for, frankly, inane reasons. They serve only to tease players now. That's the issue. The constant tease.
    It appears thanks to the pro-HE they have noticed. Looks like they are starting to remember and remove them from things they did have them in for BfA.

    Thank you for reminding Blizzard they are a remnant of a remnant.

    Blood Elves are the big remaining story for High Elves. They deserve more story, customization and more. Just like all other races that aren't allied races.

    #BloodElvesAreTheHighElves

  16. #5836
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexsa View Post
    It appears thanks to the pro-HE they have noticed. Looks like they are starting to remember and remove them from things they did have them in for BfA.

    Thank you for reminding Blizzard they are a remnant of a remnant.

    Blood Elves are the big remaining story for High Elves. They deserve more story, customization and more. Just like all other races that aren't allied races.

    #BloodElvesAreTheHighElves
    There is a measure of truth in this I would wager.

    Arcanist Ilira is now a Blood Elf and was replaced Alliance side by High Sorceress Marala in the warfronts.

    I would say Blizzard might have grown a bit lax about adding High Elves, and this endless debate reminded them.

  17. #5837
    Pandaren Monk Melsiren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexsa View Post
    It appears thanks to the pro-HE they have noticed. Looks like they are starting to remember and remove them from things they did have them in for BfA.

    Thank you for reminding Blizzard they are a remnant of a remnant.

    Blood Elves are the big remaining story for High Elves. They deserve more story, customization and more. Just like all other races that aren't allied races.

    #BloodElvesAreTheHighElves
    Well its like what I, and others have said time and time again. What the we know as HE are a reactionary group, they are pretty much the shadow of the BE.

    Every single time we have BE doing any thing. (Other than the reliquary their mirror is the explores league, and in WOD we had the Draenei.)

    There is HE group (mostly the Silver Covenent) who opposes them for one reason or another. Every single HE story development is just part of the BE story.

    I asked some one in this thread to name times we see the Silver Covenent with out there being the Sunrevers or Farstriders nearby. I NEVER got an answer.

    The Void elves could easily become the new faction mirror.
    Last edited by Melsiren; 2018-05-16 at 04:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    High elf fans are basically flat-earth society of warcraft lore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Alleria Windrunner View Post
    I AM the victim.

  18. #5838
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    Issue: High Elf NPCs in numbers. In the Alliance. They are there. They aren't playable for, frankly, inane reasons. They serve only to tease players now. That's the issue. The constant tease.
    They aren't playable on the Alliance because they are playable on the Horde.

    And isn't this a sort of hypocrisy? Earlier you were going on about how simplistic the narrative is in game because it is based on race and this is one of the reasons why. You see a small group of NPCs whom Blizzard clearly likes to use a storytelling tool and you push that it has to be playable.

    Maybe they don't mind that you are teased by it? Maybe if they feel this group has as role to tell in the story then they will do that? Maybe the feelings of the pro High Elf community aren't some kind of veto on Blizzard's decision making process? Maybe we could have those more complex stories if it didn't lead to unreasonable demands as a result?

  19. #5839
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    THESE ARE SPOILERS BTW!!

    Something funny from the Before the Storm snippet: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen.../snippet_3.png

    Sylvanas mulling over the fact that she believed the "first" few races of Horde (Orcs, Tauren, Trolls) never trully accepted the later additions, the Forsaken, Goblins, and Blood Elves.

    Then she feels proud of herself for "changing all that" so Blood Elves truly weren't seen as iconic to the Horde story for more than a decade but now under Undead Elf leader, the Horde may see more of the "later races" in the spotlight.

  20. #5840
    Quote Originally Posted by General Zanjin View Post
    they are slowly being killed off
    And that would be fine. It would end the issue. One way or the other.

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