1. #5841
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkrypt View Post

    Because I play Horde, I am invested and perfectly allowed to defend our faction's stance on this matter within this forum. The title of the thread is "Official High Elf Discussion Megathread" and not "Official High Elf Echo Chamber". This isn't a designated safe space for those who support the Alliance trying to take a race that belongs to the Horde faction. As long as I adhere to the forum rules and guidelines, I'm within my right to post and discuss amongst you. If you don't like what I say, ignore me.
    The word from on high was that "Blood Elves are essentially High Elves". Essentially. It is true that all Blood Elves were High Elves before they renamed themselves. It however is also true that there are High Elves that never renamed themselves to Blood Elf. It is also true that there are Blood Elves that have been renamed as Void Elves.

    The Horde has all the rights to the Blood Elves. This is entirely accurate. That is what it says on the character creation screen "Blood Elf".
    The Horde is not entitled to all the High Elves. There are several scattered groups of High Elves and now Void Elves that are not allied with the Horde in any manner. Several of these are allied with the Alliance, and several of them have been since before the Blood Elves joined the Horde. The "Blood Elf" version of the High Elves belong to the Horde. That is where the faction line is drawn. What High Elf fans have been on about is to make some of the High Elves that are already in the Alliance, to be playable. That is all. They are already there, and have been there the whole time.

    The population argument made sense when part of the requirements to adding a race to the game was that they needed a Starting Zone or two. Allied Races have dropped that entirely. Plus there are several groups that, to be fair, should have less populations than even the High Elves, that are playable. Darkspear Trolls? Survivors of a single tribe that escaped on a ship? Draenei from the Exodar...another ship that crashed killing a bunch of the passengers. Lightforged Draenei fit that one as well. And of course Void Elves that start off as large research team. The population of the High Elves might be small, but they are still a percentage of an entire nation. Not a tribe. Not a ship full of refugees or a ship of warriors...a small part of an entire nation. At the extreme there should be as many High Elves as Darkspear Trolls (a small tribe of trolls to begin with...based on some Native America tribes....say somewhere between 500 and 2000 trolls).

  2. #5842
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkrypt View Post
    But it's their lore that, in part, dictates why they aren't playable, right? They became Blood Elves. Those Blood Elves joined the Horde. In Blizzard's opinion, there are very, very few left. And that's true, you can't say there are many, can you?

    I'd like you to further explain how population is not a requirement when Blizzard says it is. What gives you the authority, or juice, so to speak, to make that claim? This is where I lose confidence in most of you. You make this claim, then you don't support it. The burden isn't on me to prove it. If you are going to lean on the Void Elves, remember, there are more being created in ways we don't completely understand. Battle for Azeroth shows us that rather early. So even though Void Elves may have started small, they appear to be exponentially growing. I don't consider the population of Void Elves on Live to be a precedent. Obviously Blizzard doesn't agree, and I agree with them over a biased fan twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. There's nothing inherently wrong with agreeing with Blizzard, either. It's not villainous or in poor taste.
    That's the part I am being critical of, the logic behind this statement. Void Elves are playable, they are literally a group of scholars. The SC is a groupf of militant Dalaran High Elves, part of a populace that has existed for almost 2700 years. Form isn't following function if we are supposed to believe that VE are somehow MORE than even SC High Elves. The later have been represented for 4 expansions, with almost 50 named NPC's. There is such a clear disconnect between representation and number if VE are somehow more than HE, which given they background, it's just so very unlikely they are. "Blizzard said so" does not preclude from questioning their logic.

    VE are few and we don't have confirmation more can be created. So how can you claim the population argument has much validity when they exist? Everything about their Background contrasted even ONLY to the SC should logically make them fewer. Your logic is based on "they MUST be more if they are playable" which, again, isn't supported by any context or evidence. This is why the whole population thing doesn't really matter.


    Do Void Elves being former Blood Elves muddy the lines? Perhaps a bit. I'm more confused about why Blood Elves would break ties with their faction to join Alleria, but I suppose that's in-part due to their rushed development. None of their story makes much sense. Would High Elves straight up tear down the faction wall? Yes, because Blood Elves are High Elves. A rose by any other name is still a rose. Void Elves are being portrayed as something entirely different. Do you disagree?
    Then why weren't Void Elves made of High Elves? If aesthetic is what mostly muddy the lines, why don't make the HE be the VE? Loreweise HE are a distinct political and ideological faction, it isn't about the look for me, it's a about the lore behind. Also even if you dip a rose on blue ink it's still a rose, aesthetic differentiation is just a fraction of what corresponds to identity.

    What do you mean by High Elves being given a Nightborne treatment? I don't understand what you mean.
    They could have given HE either a digetic or non diegetic reason for looking different than Blood Elves (stance, body mass, etc) They could have played with the idea of Human/Elf hybridization on the Dalaran populace.
    I'm well aware what compromise means. It means players wanted one thing, Blizzard didn't see fit to bestow it upon you, so something close was given instead. A compromise is acceptance of a situation that wasn't necessarily the desirable one. They explained their reasons for this compromise, which was to protect the pride and identity of the Horde faction owning the Blood Elven race.
    People that wanted HE didn't get the lore they wanted as base, nor the aesthetic. This is not a compromise for people that wanted HE. Specially for those that wanted them for the lore. The "Horde's pride" could have been protected EVEN MORE if VE were given a Silver Covenant background, as they wouldn't have to loose MORE of its population. It's not even a bad compromise, is just not a compromise at all if you wanted a High Elf.

    Understanding why people wanted High Elves isn't really integral to this discussion. Why do I have to understand it? Why is that crucial to progressing this debate? I honestly can't give you an unbiased list of reasons for two reasons:

    1. I don't know, I'll admit. Most of the reasons provided in the 300+ pages of this thread aren't fully explained. They mostly revolve around the fantasy of the archetype of an elf, and the desire to RP as one.

    2. I'm biased. I find it in the unsavory type of persistence that you guys have been told no for almost ten years, yet you remain defiant to what you're being told.
    Understanding the reasons from the opposing side is integral to a discussion. You might not share them, but if you don't even try to understand them you are simply not having a discussion, just telling people they are wrong.

    Personally, I wanted High Elves because I liked their lore and their place on it through the Silver Covenant -a continued presence that has been going for almost 10 years without resolution- If I just want to be a pretty tolkien elf I'll play Horde. Also I believe that "ranger" themes introduced on War2 have been severely underused on the rest of the Elven races, so I would like one of them to pick that up.

    If we are told no, we can ask "why" and "but what about?"That's how it works. And I'm sorry, but I have not been given a satisfactory answer for many of my questions. I accept that HE won't be playable, I still want actually good answers for my questions, I still have criticisms about how things have been handled, from the fact that SCHE kept being used through the years for no reason, to Ion's dismissing of the issues raised. I want a better answer, not a "yes"

    Not necessarily directed at you, Thunder, but:

    Because I play Horde, I am invested and perfectly allowed to defend our faction's stance on this matter within this forum. The title of the thread is "Official High Elf Discussion Megathread" and not "Official High Elf Echo Chamber". This isn't a designated safe space for those who support the Alliance trying to take a race that belongs to the Horde faction. As long as I adhere to the forum rules and guidelines, I'm within my right to post and discuss amongst you. If you don't like what I say, ignore me.
    I play Horde too. This isn't a faction issue for me at all. It's about narrative. But I understand that for some people is, and I, as a horde player, don't actually want to dismiss every reason -and personally I was all about how to make BE and HE different enough- That's why I come here to engage in the discussion, to see both sides of it. This isn't an echo chamber because we don't agree with you, we don't all have the same opinions.

    You have to learn to accept people will disagree with you without throwing "echo chamber" accusations, and be more self critical about your own bias because if you keep basing your stance on the "wanting High Elves is wrong" mindset, you are not coming here offering anything to the discussion

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightvision View Post
    Here is a High Elf I created with GIMP by combining human and blood elf death knight models. I added some war paint and bruises to make them look more primitive. I think they should look a bit rugged since they are cut off from the Sunwell. I wouldn't mind if Blizzard released an allied race called "Wild elves", based on the remaining High elves scattered around Azeroth and Outland.

    Love the concept, but word of advice, using WoWhead gives you too many weird shadows! I recommend using the MMO-C model viewer instead for resources for edits as it gives you a far more flatter lightning.

    https://www.wowdb.com/items/97901-gr...s#model-viewer

    Back to the concept, while I personally I'm more of a Silver Covenant kind of guy, the Allerian High Elves are a pretty cool base with the through-line of the Warcraft 2 elves as an eminent alliance group form 23 years, cut away from the Sunwell and their kin.

    Which ties with my own personal view of Half Elves as my preferred scenario as the "legacy of the alliance High Elves"

  3. #5843
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkrypt View Post
    I appreciate your response.

    I don't want to spoil anything about BFA, but having played the Beta on the Alliance side to test out Dark Irons it seemed to me that we don't know everything about the Void Elves yet as of the Live game. Their numbers are definitely growing, is all I'll say. I don't know from where or how, or if it's Blizzard's wonderful Hollywood-style magic, but they are.

    I played the intro scene to the Void Elves just out of curiosity when they were released. I thought Telogrus was basically a factory for Void Elves? I see where you said there's no canon source that outright says more are being created, but are you sure? It sure seems like they are being created/converted around the clock, or at least, like you said, that's the implication.

    Some of my opinion is also based on my assumptions of what's going to occur in Battle for Azeroth. I think some of the events we don't fully know of yet you could also lend to their stance on High Elves. They have often said that they plan 1-2 expansions ahead of time. There could be a large story element that reinforces their stance that we, the players, just haven't seen yet.

    I think the population argument favors Void Elves over High Elves because it is a very safe presumption that more are being made. Some of the clues in the Beta indicate this beyond a shadow of a doubt. High Elves, for a many years now, have been known to have a dwindling population. I mean, since the introduction of the Blood Elves, their population was massively hurt, and only more have died since between the Sunreaver/Silver Covenant conflicts, wouldn't you say? Development will continue for the Void Elves because that's what Blizzard wants. And when it comes to wants and desires, what they want for their game trumps what a sector of fans want.

    I just don't believe Blizzard would take this position without good reason. I know their lore is not infallible, but it is theirs to make changes. I just don't think the average player has any authority to contest it, especially ones with a biased agenda. I have been told that's a wrong way to think, but to provide an example from when a very serious fan challenged George R.R. Martin about his works in Game of Thrones, I liked his reply. He simply said that: "Sometimes the world and all the creatures in it become so large and so intricate, that it is inevitable that some things are lost over the years." And I think that the fans, no matter how passionate they are, don't realize this sometimes.
    I only wished Blizzard was more forthcoming and had spent more time fleshing out void elves during and after their recruitment. Showing void elves actually being transformed in the starting Telogrus area would be welcome. A few extra gossip text and dialogues with NPCs with Telogrus would help a lot (just look how datamined Umbric's dialogue added more depth to them, despite answering so little).

    As a new addition, they don't need a lot of history, but they do need a lot of background. How it feels to be one of them (beyond just getting whispers)? How it changes your perspective on things? How do they transform other elves? Why would people chose to become void elves (aside from scholars interested in void in the first place)? Simple text would help a lot.

    Personally, I'd also have made some changes to their recruitment. Instead of just Alleria going to search Umbric, I'd put a cadre of Silver Covenant rangers and mages giving her support, and being transformed by accident with Umbric's people. THat alone would explain where the non-magic using ren'dorei come from, and would show actual high elves, with no interest in the void, being forced to cope with their new condition. This alone would give void elves more diversity from the start.

    As I wrote in some other places (mind you this is old text from before details of Alliance War campaign started to be found):
    If Blizzard really wants to stop the high elf controversy without making high elves playable, it should focus on promoting the void elves, not on giving reasons why they can't give us high elves.

    Void elves are poorly-thought, badly developed copouts, but they do have potential (and nothing else). I can think of many ways to make them more palatable to the high elf crowd without giving them high elf skins. The problem here is that people will be way more unwilling to give them a chance now than they were before velves were released (you can check it out: the high elf requests exploded after January 30th. Until then, most high elf fans were still hoping void elves would turn out to be good).

    The big problem is: everything points out to void elves being just a gimmick to allow players to be "Alleria-like elves" (while looking nothing like her). There's not a single interesting void elf interaction so far in BfA, all their cameos are just as some generic team of rangers following Alleria around. There's three void-related zones, plus a 4th one dealing with dark magic that may or may not be void, and yet you don't see a single void elf camp or interactable NPC. (I hear Umbric has a role in the Alliance campaign in Vol'dun and later becomes a follower, but I'm still waiting for details to judge it.)

    Void elves desperately need some depth. I say that Blizzard must:

    * Expand Telogrus Rift, putting events/gossip/interactions there that explain the basics of void elf lore (like the most obvious questions of them all: can new void elves be created? How are new ones transformed? Why are so many elves going there to become abominations tied to corruptive dark magic?)

    * Provide a proper core cast of void elf NPCs. At the very least, make a representative leader for each class. I'd take some known blood and high elf characters and turn them void elves. My choices would include Lyria Skystrider and Priest Ennas (the priests that try to preach against the Horde in Silvermoon), Summoner Nolric (only high elf warlock known), Taela Everstride (from Allerian Stronghold) and Theloria Shadecloak (from Allerian Post in Terokkar) as examples of elves I'd turn void to fulfill a core cast.

    * Make high and void elves have tied roles (much like Worgen/Gilnean are tied together, but only worgen are playable). Make the two races cooperate frequently, share camps, and sometimes buttheads among themselves. High and void elf lore would intermingle from now on, and be ultimately undivisible.

    * Put the void elves front and center of at least one major storyline in BfA. As the only Legion-related allied race that had no development in Legion, they really need immediate attention.

    Aside from all that, expanding void elf customization would be nice to try to draw in a wider range of personal tastes. I'm not talking normal skins here. Get some of the fan ideas behind high elf customization and apply to void elves. Personally, I think they need white-grey and white-purple (not bluish) skins. I'd give them more hair colors, like silver-blue, deep red, pitch black. And I'd give them warpaint, in colors such as red, blue and violet.

    These suggestions are the very same that have been circulating in forums since November 2017. If Blizzard had paid more attention to them, maybe all the high elf talk would have never gotten so out of hand.
    Whatever...

  4. #5844
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkrypt View Post
    ...
    My argument hasn't changed, what has changed is your understanding of it. You like others have made a strawman assumption of the argument and when I don't argue that strawmanned position, you assume my point has changed. It's a lack of your understanding, not my argument. I have never argued Pro-High Elf, I have never argued they are likely to come, what I have argued is you are wrong to believe that Ion said never and closed the discussion. I have argued the faction wall isn't really a wall, it can be crossed and likely will be crossed as it has been crossed numerous times. Factions aren't just defined by the races they contain.

    I am not more condescending then you have been, you don't get to call out my poor behavior when you displayed no better and not be viewed a hypocrite. You only seem to pay attention when someone speaks down to you, so it seems the only real way to get your attention.

    You seem to have a lot of faith in Blizzard making something make sense. Maybe they'll play a role in a void expansion or whatever ... maybe they are just a flavor that appears here and there. As to why, it is because Allied Races are supposed to be a reward, giving a copy of a Horde Race to the Alliance but giving the Horde a cool twist isn't a fair system (this is something I agree with on why Velf over Helf). However, just because we have Void Elves now does not equate to never getting High Elves (that doesn't follow with any logic). For all we know, they maybe having rough plans for a "traitor" expansion down the line where they'll allow playable High Elves on the Alliance.

    Blood Elves DON'T belong to the Horde ... seriously, this isn't up for debate, it's a fact. You do know there are neutral Blood Elves right? Playable Blood Elves are Horde, but Blood Elves do not belong to the Horde. Valeera Sanguinar is neither Horde nor Alliance ... she's a Blood Elf ... the Scryers aren't Horde or Alliance ... what are they? Blood Elves ... the Blood elves literally do not belong to the Horde. The only Blood Elves that "belong" to the Horde are the Playable versions. The race doesn't belong to the Horde. The only race that, to me, "belongs" to any faction is Humans and that is honestly stretching that definition.

    If you are using "belongs to" as a synonym for playable ... that's just a pointless thing to say. Just say playable.

    Your stance HAS been dismantled ... it is just you dismiss any argument to the contrary, you haven't actually disproven anything of the Pro-Helfers. Your counters are "Doesn't count" or with Pandaren "that was a failure!"
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
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  5. #5845
    ...hear me out on this, boys and girls.

    What if the reason Blizzard elected to go with Void Elves (and not High Elves) wasn't because they were too similar, but because they're planning on finally pulling the trigger on Blood Elves joining the Alliance?

    This solves all issues of nuance in a single stroke.

  6. #5846
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyersing View Post
    ...hear me out on this, boys and girls.

    What if the reason Blizzard elected to go with Void Elves (and not High Elves) wasn't because they were too similar, but because they're planning on finally pulling the trigger on Blood Elves joining the Alliance?

    This solves all issues of nuance in a single stroke.
    Fyersing I find it hard to respond to this suggestion. It doesn't make a lick of sense, especially given the context of Ion's answer that the Horde is waiting for you.

    The reason they went with Void Elves is because High Elves are identical to Blood Elves. That is all there is too it. People just tend to overthink this.

    But no, the Blood Elves aren't joining the Alliance, High Elves aren't becoming playable, and the Void Elves are the Alliance alternative.

  7. #5847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    But no, the Blood Elves aren't joining the Alliance, High Elves aren't becoming playable, and the Void Elves are the Alliance alternative.
    Goes to show Blizz's limitless ignorance, considering they had no qualms with giving Pandaren to both.

  8. #5848
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    Goes to show Blizz's limitless ignorance, considering they had no qualms with giving Pandaren to both.
    the only ignorance here would be yours, they already explained what they did)
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  9. #5849
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    My argument hasn't changed, what has changed is your understanding of it. You like others have made a strawman assumption of the argument and when I don't argue that strawmanned position, you assume my point has changed. It's a lack of your understanding, not my argument. I have never argued Pro-High Elf-- screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech, womp, womp, womp, womp, womp, screeeeeeeeeeech.

    ...
    Got to the part where you said you weren't debating for High Elves and I figured the rest is TL;DR. Not really interested in the same old stale "I'm right, you're just too stupid to understand me" bullshit you keep spewing to everyone you quote. You're just here to satisfy your defeated ego. I'm here to discuss why the Alliance shouldn't have access to the Blood Elves that belong to the Horde faction as a playable race now.
    Last edited by Enkrypt; 2018-05-17 at 10:23 PM.

  10. #5850
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Fyersing I find it hard to respond to this suggestion. It doesn't make a lick of sense, especially given the context of Ion's answer that the Horde is waiting for you.

    The reason they went with Void Elves is because High Elves are identical to Blood Elves. That is all there is too it. People just tend to overthink this.

    But no, the Blood Elves aren't joining the Alliance, High Elves aren't becoming playable, and the Void Elves are the Alliance alternative.
    I feel like Blizzard needs to have Vareesa Windrunner killed, the Silver Covenant dissolved, and indicate that remaining high elves are joining their brethren because of significant disagreements with Alleria and her Ren'dorei.

    Give Blood Elves blue, green, and gold eyes and boom: problem solved.

    While I agree with your posts, I don't think their truths are demonstrated in-game as a whole. The political "High" Elves of the Silver Covenant are (in my mind) the sole reason this debate keeps raging. Blizz can easily put it to bed, and make something compelling with it.

  11. #5851
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    Goes to show Blizz's limitless ignorance, considering they had no qualms with giving Pandaren to both.
    This has been discussed countless times. Numerous posters keep bringing up the Pandaren example and keep getting the same response.

    Neutral Pandaren were a mistake and proved neutrality does not work, it comes at too great a cost to the identity of the faction and inhibits the story of the neutral race.

    Blizzard hasn't added a neutral race in six years, one of the lead devs at the time said the concept had problems and allied races allow blizzard to introduce new faction specific races on the cheap.

  12. #5852
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enkrypt View Post
    Got to the part where you said you weren't debating for High Elves and I figured the rest is TL;DR. Not really interested in the same old stale "I'm right, you're just too stupid to understand me" bullshit you keep spewing to everyone you quote. You're just here to satisfy your defeated ego. I'm here to discuss why the Alliance shouldn't have access to the Blood Elves that belong to the Horde faction. Until you're ready to discuss High Elves and not stroke yourself, I wouldn't bother quoting me. You won't receive a response.
    I am sorry .. are you the only one allowed to "stroke their ego"? It's funny you think your argument has actually been better ... it's cute. You do know I have never been arguing for High Elves to be playable, but rather than the reason they aren't are bullshit.

    But you basically just proved me right here, so I guess there is no reason for you to continue to reply.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2018-05-17 at 10:41 PM.
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    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
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  13. #5853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnagefiend View Post
    I feel like Blizzard needs to have Vareesa Windrunner killed, the Silver Covenant dissolved, and indicate that remaining high elves are joining their brethren because of significant disagreements with Alleria and her Ren'dorei.

    Give Blood Elves blue, green, and gold eyes and boom: problem solved.

    While I agree with your posts, I don't think their truths are demonstrated in-game as a whole. The political "High" Elves of the Silver Covenant are (in my mind) the sole reason this debate keeps raging. Blizz can easily put it to bed, and make something compelling with it.
    I keep seeing this suggestion.

    You know, I agree on the level that it would finally bring the debate to a close but on the other hand how monumentally asinine a result that would be.

    The Silver Covenant are a storytelling prop, a tool with which Blizzard has, on occasion, advanced the narrative.

    They reflect a tiny group of thalassian elves that betrayed their homeland and chose the Alliance over Quel'thalas. They are not a major force in the Alliance, they have no real influence or impact, but they do exist.

    I have no problem with the Silver Covenant as a storytelling tool. Or Veressa. It would be akin to me having a problem with the Reliquary or the Kor'kron or SI:7.

    Yet because they can't playable and because they won't be playable, we have to demand they all be killed off because some players are upset that they can't play the race they represent within the Alliance?

    I mean I am for it just to shut this debate down but looking at it dispassionately it's basically asking Blizzard to contrive to wipe out a storytelling tool for no real reason other than sour grapes.

    Frankly it wouldn't surprise me if Blizzard kept using them and just ignored the requests for playable High Elves in future.

  14. #5854
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    the only ignorance here would be yours, they already explained what they did)
    They explained nothing, Hazzi is an ignorant Horde fanboi, that's all there's to it.

  15. #5855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    They explained nothing, Hazzi is an ignorant Horde fanboi, that's all there's to it.
    They explained it multiple times, how can you attack someone for your own inability to listen or read?
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  16. #5856
    eh this thread still going? and again with "pandaren" thing... eh
    but why i am asking if now their HE discord disscusing how "faction" are meaningless, how they are just "football clubs", and that destroying them is good, and that ESO have every race on every faction and "noone cares"...

  17. #5857
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    I keep seeing this suggestion.

    You know, I agree on the level that it would finally bring the debate to a close but on the other hand how monumentally asinine a result that would be.

    The Silver Covenant are a storytelling prop, a tool with which Blizzard has, on occasion, advanced the narrative.

    They reflect a tiny group of thalassian elves that betrayed their homeland and chose the Alliance over Quel'thalas. They are not a major force in the Alliance, they have no real influence or impact, but they do exist.

    I have no problem with the Silver Covenant as a storytelling tool. Or Veressa. It would be akin to me having a problem with the Reliquary or the Kor'kron or SI:7.

    Yet because they can't playable and because they won't be playable, we have to demand they all be killed off because some players are upset that they can't play the race they represent within the Alliance?

    I mean I am for it just to shut this debate down but looking at it dispassionately it's basically asking Blizzard to contrive to wipe out a storytelling tool for no real reason other than sour grapes.

    Frankly it wouldn't surprise me if Blizzard kept using them and just ignored the requests for playable High Elves in future.
    Well, the intent isn't to get rid of the High Elves amongst the Alliance, I guess is really what I'm getting at. I just don't really see the Silver Covenant being at the FRONT of the engagements, time-after-time. I guess what I would like to see represented is attrition in the ranks. I find it just a tad absurd that a splinter group of High Elves lasting through every conflict since the Northrend wars.

    The reason I brought up the Ren'dorei was to sort of flesh out their place in Warcraft's political universe, and not to leave the High Elves high-and-dry.

    Hell, what if we kept the Silver Covenant but most of their members are now humans? Half Elves? I dunno, the point I'm trying to get here isn't about sour grapes, its about storytelling a living, breathing, developing, evolving world.

  18. #5858
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnagefiend View Post
    Well, the intent isn't to get rid of the High Elves amongst the Alliance, I guess is really what I'm getting at. I just don't really see the Silver Covenant being at the FRONT of the engagements, time-after-time. I guess what I would like to see represented is attrition in the ranks. I find it just a tad absurd that a splinter group of High Elves lasting through every conflict since the Northrend wars.

    The reason I brought up the Ren'dorei was to sort of flesh out their place in Warcraft's political universe, and not to leave the High Elves high-and-dry.

    Hell, what if we kept the Silver Covenant but most of their members are now humans? Half Elves? I dunno, the point I'm trying to get here isn't about sour grapes, its about storytelling a living, breathing, developing, evolving world.
    Yeah I sympathise. I too believe the Silver Covenant should be gotten rid of if only to bring this interminable debate to an end, but it just seems silly that the rationale behind getting rid of them is to stop the High Elf debate.

    I'd prefer if they were seen for what they are, a story telling tool and that it was left at that. And it's not sour grapes from you, but sour grapes from the pro High Elf community who feel that if High Elves can't be playable, they should be dead. As I said I wouldn't mind seeing them dead now just to end the debate, but it's a blunt response.

  19. #5859
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Guys.

    Hear me out.

    High Elves will never be playable.

    Bye.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  20. #5860
    Pandaren Monk Melsiren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Guys.

    Hear me out.

    High Elves will never be playable.

    Bye.
    Zul wait!!!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    High elf fans are basically flat-earth society of warcraft lore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Alleria Windrunner View Post
    I AM the victim.

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