Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ithekro]

maybe the one who want Warcraft to be somewhat unique from common fantasy worlds where dakr = evil, light = good, elves, dwarves, humans = goodguys, orcs, trolls, undead, goblins = bad guys?


"desctruction is done". Chronicles cemented it. 0,0001% chances that blizz will retcon after releasing chronicles.
corrupted land can still be taken and trown out of there if needed. i don't think it's deep enough corrupted soil with no chances of actually clear it. But okay

so list please "aestetics" wich won't be used by Blood elves and WHY they won't be used? Hairstyles and tatto (later mostly) not there only because we lack them FROM THE START ON EVERY F**CKING RACE! Every race have some kind of warpaint/tattoo, but they started implement them with AR. So what stopping them from ACTUALLY adding them to normal races AFTER BfA (because they said that main focus in BfA are Alied Races)?


decade of demanding of return to classic fantasy world so Warcraft will end up again another "meh" mmo lorewise, where cool guys Human, dwarves, elves, and gnomes overpower everything on their path. Oh and i just can't stop imagining how many "High elves" would start scream on horde that they are "loyal, proud, clear, etc, etc. (holly hypocrites)" just because they play for the "right faction". And how much damage it will do to faction population AGAIN, and then AGAIN Aliance will scream "horde bias" when after adding "High elves" blizzard would try to AGAIN balance faction by adding something cool to horde race (dragonkin for example). But yeah - Horde bias.
Also - tell me. Where is Ogres for Horde thread of 300 pages and ancestors knows how much posts on bnet forums? even if they were part of the horde from start. i don't see any. Where big thread of 300 pages for San'layn? i don't see it. Taunka? Wildhammer? Dragonmaw? I. DON'T. SEE. THEM. show how "biased" aliance and hore eh?

you can do whatever you want, without "High elves" being added to Aliance.

So why does this sound so personal for you? Like someone's trying to steal your dog and claim it was theirs originally? No one has asked for anything their faction does not already have...at least at the baseline. There are Blood Elves in the Horde and High Elves in the Alliance. Its been that way since the Blood Elves joined the Horde. No one is stealing from you in any way.

If you think High Elves will steal from the Horde, than the Horde has a problem with retention, because Blood Elves wouldn't go away. This isn't a request for making the Blood Elves into High Elves, its a request to make the High Elves that are already in the Alliance playable.

As to why do you see 300+ pages for High Elves and not the others? The other races aren't contested by people. There aren't multiple appearances of Ogres in the Alliance settlement, nor screen time given to them even in the Horde much. Their aren't San'layn in any Alliance questing hubs, and only recently in Horde questing in BfA. Wildhammer's aren't seem in Horde questing hubs, nor do they get much screen time in the Alliance story.

But High Elves? We have them in multiple questing hubs in the Alliance. In Stormwind. We see them in Dalaran and they are given a relatively large amount of screen time relative to several playable races. And than, on top of that, there is the Blood Elves that get their own screen time for the Horde and several questing hub, plus of course Silvermoon, though you don't see all that many Blood Elves in the other Horde cities (NPCs). So both sides have these similar elves in their questing content, quest hubs, and a share of screen time in their faction questing content. Yet one version is playable and the other is not. The one that is not has been requested to be playable since before the other joined the Horde. So therefore 300+ pages of thread due to a fairly unique situation within the World of Warcraft. A species that is divided between two faction for a decade (our years, not game years), one playable, one not. Of course people are going to want to play the group that isn't playable, yet is present and given screen time.

[Deleted]

Warcraft to be somewhat unique from common fantasy worlds

It is already done - orcs and undead are one of most important protagonists, drows have been shown without any corruption. Future development, especially dome by allied race system - offering only secondary race choice - will not change it.

chances that blizz will retcon

Are always huge. However I don't think, if such acts, as for example new knowledge, would count as retcons.

so list please "aestetics" wich won't be used by Blood elves and WHY they won't be used?

Those concepts won't probably be used, because they are abandoned since WC2. Because never since that time there was no need for specially highlight that aspect of Thalasian elf concept. Because story of Blood Elves went on the other tracks - and so we get rather new runic tattoos on the cover of the TBC, and totally new light theme today. Despite already having rangers in Quel'Thalas - we didn't get any elf looking like Alleria before in WoW, because that was never chosen as crucial in way of presenting them and leading their story.

another "meh" mmo lorewise, where cool guys Human, dwarves, elves, and gnomes overpower everything on their path.

Do You have some complexes or something? I agree, that faction balance in numbers are important thing. And so I hope for Blizzard to succeed in recreating Blood Elves result, in favor of the Horde - I already told You this twice. I would never take myself way of implementing High Elves, that would in fact be harming for Horde - like popular lately idea of retaking Silvermoon for example - as acceptable solution.

I have rather specific taste when it comes to sympathizing with races and characters on my own, but I would never think of prohibiting others to experience fantasy world in their own way, no matter what I would think about it. You already have Your non evil orcs and undead as protagonists, in world, that still gets more complicated, and even starts to portray classically good associated force of light, as nuanced. And no one is taking it back from You - with High Elves or without them. I fully support portraying Alliance as more morally ambiguous as well, and even giving them races that not look obviously "good" at first place.

But during growth in complexity of the Warcraft universe, little more narratives can start to coexist.

Where is Ogres for Horde thread of 300 pages (...) Where big thread of 300 pages for San'layn?

You know why they do not occur?

Because despite these races being frequent demands, mentioned all the time in many threats - there are no people searching occasion to mock their fans. No people willing to discredit or disgust the object of sympathy, convince that it is unachievable, impossible, that you have to "grow up" or acknowledge something, invent various kinds of the even most absurd arguments, present aggression, envy or just troll.

Look at the thread about Botani - it doesn't grow, because no one is willing to fight with people just because they want some work done on particular race. Same under the topic of Broken - people just take a comments about how would they like to implement particular race. This also could be another thread like that - just with people particularly interested in what High Elf is, and what it could be.

you can do whatever you want, without "High elves" being added to Aliance.

People who direct so much aggression towards High Elf fans, would't be the ones, whom I would ask for permission for anything - sorry for that. Apart from the fact that this is neither mine, nor yours decision.

Blizzard has been committed to introducing new and creative races for either faction, and it's important that they maintain that pursuit, or we risk losing a wider breadth of options in favor of filling in the insignificant details in between.

However - even from that perspective High Elves are case on their own, as there is no precedence for such longstanding popularity, and so - hard to justify on the basis of the decision made for them any new general rule.

[protip]

However - even from that perspective High Elves are case on their own, as there is no precedence for such longstanding popularity, and so - hard to justify on the basis of the decision made for them any new general rule.

It would take the place of something with an identity of its own, and would damage faction lines. Even if you view it as an exception, it still does harm.

All of the proposed ways around that damage to faction identities have problems too. The reality of the situation is that no matter how they are introduced, there will be permanent damage to the game. Simply not adding them avoids all that entirely. The only problem with not adding them is that some people don't get quite exactly what they want. The more prudent option not only prevents that damage to the game, but is entirely reversible should the circumstances change. Once added, however, they could never be removed or changed.

That popularity is also somewhat misleading, because people simply don't mean the same thing when they say, "We want Alliance High Elves to be playable." Even within this thread, there is disagreement about what exactly that means. Some believe it should be the Silver Covenant, with a strong arcane connection, others believe it should be the Quel'Danil High Elves, with their strict rejection of magic, and still others believe they should be taken from the Allerian Stronghold, as if they were trapped in the wild with some older version of high elf culture. There are numerous other ideas as to what high elves might be, including lightning based concepts, blue dragon based concepts, and many more. Blizzard cannot possibly satisfy all of the people who want High Elves, because their expectations are often contradictory. Considering the opposition to making them playable in the first place, High Elves would be a disappointing addition to a large number of people in a variety of ways that any new playable race would not.

Ultimately, High Elves are a very controversial request, and not adding them risks nothing. It simply doesn't make sense to make them playable, and I don't think it's right to blame Blizzard for making the responsible decision for the game. Even if some players don't agree with their decision, I would hope that those players could at least see value in the fact that Blizzard made the choice that did the least to change the fundamental identity of the game. I would hate to see them chip that identity away just to try to give everyone what they want.

[MechaCThun]

/sigh



EDIT: Awww, boohoo I get infracted. So because I had a picture going along with my sentence of "Stop trying to make high elves happen" I get an infraction. just lol @ at this website.

[Ithekro]

It would take the place of something with an identity of its own, and would damage faction lines. Even if you view it as an exception, it still does harm.

All of the proposed ways around that damage to faction identities have problems too. The reality of the situation is that no matter how they are introduced, there will be permanent damage to the game. Simply not adding them avoids all that entirely. The only problem with not adding them is that some people don't get quite exactly what they want. The more prudent option not only prevents that damage to the game, but is entirely reversible should the circumstances change. Once added, however, they could never be removed or changed.

That popularity is also somewhat misleading, because people simply don't mean the same thing when they say, "We want Alliance High Elves to be playable." Even within this thread, there is disagreement about what exactly that means. Some believe it should be the Silver Covenant, with a strong arcane connection, others believe it should be the Quel'Danil High Elves, with their strict rejection of magic, and still others believe they should be taken from the Allerian Stronghold, as if they were trapped in the wild with some older version of high elf culture. There are numerous other ideas as to what high elves might be, including lightning based concepts, blue dragon based concepts, and many more. Blizzard cannot possibly satisfy all of the people who want High Elves, because their expectations are often contradictory. Considering the opposition to making them playable in the first place, High Elves would be a disappointing addition to a large number of people in a variety of ways that any new playable race would not.

Ultimately, High Elves are a very controversial request, and not adding them risks nothing. It simply doesn't make sense to make them playable, and I don't think it's right to blame Blizzard for making the responsible decision for the game. Even if some players don't agree with their decision, I would hope that those players could at least see value in the fact that Blizzard made the choice that did the least to change the fundamental identity of the game. I would hate to see them chip that identity away just to try to give everyone what they want.

Most of those variety of High Elf concepts are to give the likes of Blizzard options and a way so it can be done. All they need to do is pick one and run with it.

As for this being a fundamental identity of the game, I would think not. Especially since they already have High Elves in the Alliance in the game. Its not like they are taking something from the Horde and giving it away to make something playable. They would be using what already exists in the Alliance to make a playable race. That's all. The Blood Elves have their own story. Nothing the Alliance, nor High Elves do, can change it or take it away from the Horde players. It is set, done, and following its own path. So leave the Alliance with their High Elves to make their own path as well, separate from their Blood Elf cousins.

I mean you might not be able to tell a High Elf from a Blood Elf, and I can assure you, they can tell the difference.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Most of those variety of High Elf concepts are to give the likes of Blizzard options and a way so it can be done. All they need to do is pick one and run with it.

As for this being a fundamental identity of the game, I would think not. Especially since they already have High Elves in the Alliance in the game. Its not like they are taking something from the Horde and giving it away to make something playable. They would be using what already exists in the Alliance to make a playable race. That's all. The Blood Elves have their own story. Nothing the Alliance, nor High Elves do, can change it or take it away from the Horde players. It is set, done, and following its own path. So leave the Alliance with their High Elves to make their own path as well, separate from their Blood Elf cousins.

I mean you might not be able to tell a High Elf from a Blood Elf, and I can assure you, they can tell the difference.

It's not just the looks, its the stepping stones so many people just try to handwave away or change.

Once again, why even ask for high elves? People are willing to compromise on the model, doesn't matter then they wouldn't be high elves anyways. The model would be edited to differentiate them and then you'd have a dozen more sob threads that they weren't high elves when Blizzard has made it abundantly clear on why the "high elf" remains on the Horde. And no matter the hand waving, the main, the core of the race is Horde.

instead of focusing on something obtainable, like say, half elves, people still cling to the idea of high elves when that dead horse has been beaten for over ten years now.

[Ithekro]

Half elf has always been an option in the thread. Its usually tied to using the human model with an elf skin, or the dragon aspects elf models which are different from the High Elf/Blood Elf model. Those have been given too. Usually the response is "there shouldn't be many hybrid anythings around the world". (many hybrid species can't breed), We know all the Windrunner sisters were into humans, and two of them produced hybrids (Sylvanas appears to not have done so with Nathanos prior to their deaths.) We do not know how common this is or if any of the hybrids can breed with either elves, humans, or other hybrids. (and Mr. 404 hybrid son a hybrid orc/draenei mixed with human is an oddity).

[ForgottenKnight1]

As of now, High Elves are one of the cards that Blizzard is gonna play only when the subs count or the talk about wow goes down again. The same, perhaps, can be said about races like Ogres and Nagas and a proper Housing System similar to that of FFXiV.

I feel its gonna be the same thing that happened with the Classic servers. People want them, Blizzard doesnt, so people are just gonna keep asking for these things (High Elves, Ogres, Nagas, Houses, etc) until Blizzard gives up to pressure and finally deliver, just like with Classic.

[matrix123mko]

As of now, High Elves are one of the cards that Blizzard is gonna play only when the subs count or the talk about wow goes down again. The same, perhaps, can be said about races like Ogres and Nagas and a proper Housing System similar to that of FFXiV.

I feel its gonna be the same thing that happened with the Classic servers. People want them, Blizzard doesnt, so people are just gonna keep asking for these things (High Elves, Ogres, Nagas, Houses, etc) until Blizzard gives up to pressure and finally deliver, just like with Classic.

House allied race.

[Zorish]

But High Elves? We have them in multiple questing hubs in the Alliance. In Stormwind. We see them in Dalaran and they are given a relatively large amount of screen time relative to several playable races. And than, on top of that, there is the Blood Elves that get their own screen time for the Horde and several questing hub, plus of course Silvermoon, though you don't see all that many Blood Elves in the other Horde cities (NPCs). So both sides have these similar elves in their questing content, quest hubs, and a share of screen time in their faction questing content. Yet one version is playable and the other is not. The one that is not has been requested to be playable since before the other joined the Horde. So therefore 300+ pages of thread due to a fairly unique situation within the World of Warcraft. A species that is divided between two faction for a decade (our years, not game years), one playable, one not. Of course people are going to want to play the group that isn't playable, yet is present and given screen time.

i would just list you this:
WotLK - elves done nothing big, they "existed there just to be for being opposition to blood elves"
Cata - again nothing "big" achieved, apart from "just existing"
Pandaria - BIG APPEARANCE! As Jaina hounds and part of Kirin Tor Offensive "faction"
WoD - nothig - orc expansion
Legion - Again "Big appearance". As another tool to develop Blood elf and Nighborn story they come WITH TYRANDE. You see? While horde part was represented only by elves - Aliance need 2 different "faction" of elves to be equal. And even more - Elisande consider "High elves" are PEASANTS WHO MINDLE WITH LESSER RACES. Wich lead to NOT bigger numbers (when you bring this argument) but rather growing number of HALFBREED. Even Elisande consider them as "dying" offshot.

- - - Updated - - -

It is already done - orcs and undead are one of most important protagonists, drows have been shown without any corruption. Future development, especially dome by allied race system - offering only secondary race choice - will not change it.

future development by returning warcraft on rails of common fantasy? i see "good" development there.

Are always huge. However I don't think, if such acts, as for example new knowledge, would count as retcons.

new knowledge can only exist in place where we lack of knowledge. in current one? WE DON'T HAVE EMPTY HOLES.

Those concepts won't probably be used, because they are abandoned since WC2. Because never since that time there was no need for specially highlight that aspect of Thalasian elf concept. Because story of Blood Elves went on the other tracks - and so we get rather new runic tattoos on the cover of the TBC, and totally new light theme today. Despite already having rangers in Quel'Thalas - we didn't get any elf looking like Alleria before in WoW, because that was never chosen as crucial in way of presenting them and leading their story.

new "Light theme" represented ONLY by eyes, and new military wing of quel'thalas - Blood knights. They not abbandoned their past. They just developed new. Farstriders are still there - hello Halduron who brough them to hunter order hall!. And Alleria got Unique model only because she is "main story character". Do you remember Sylvanas look before she became important for plot? NIGHT ELF! Varrian? Anduin? Velen? Bain? Thrall? Garrosh? Tyrande? Malfurion? I would name you EVERY f**king leader who get unique model when he needed. Where are this customizations? Where? where my white warpaint on green orc like saurfang? Where are my Antlers on Night elf? Where my scars on human face? Where are this fancy armor and clothes like on this npc?

Do You have some complexes or something? I agree, that faction balance in numbers are important thing. And so I hope for Blizzard to succeed in recreating Blood Elves result, in favor of the Horde - I already told You this twice. I would never take myself way of implementing High Elves, that would in fact be harming for Horde - like popular lately idea of retaking Silvermoon for example - as acceptable solution.

We both know the level of shitstorm what can happen if blizzard would sell Silvermoon (and Sunwell) to Aliance. 0,000000000001% that this gonna happen on this reason AND because it's part of BC content wich they have problem editing.

I have rather specific taste when it comes to sympathizing with races and characters on my own, but I would never think of prohibiting others to experience fantasy world in their own way, no matter what I would think about it. You already have Your non evil orcs and undead as protagonists, in world, that still gets more complicated, and even starts to portray classically good associated force of light, as nuanced. And no one is taking it back from You - with High Elves or without them. I fully support portraying Alliance as more morally ambiguous as well, and even giving them races that not look obviously "good" at first place.

But during growth in complexity of the Warcraft universe, little more narratives can start to coexist.

not in the current state of the game.

You know why they do not occur?

Because despite these races being frequent demands, mentioned all the time in many threats - there are no people searching occasion to mock their fans. No people willing to discredit or disgust the object of sympathy, convince that it is unachievable, impossible, that you have to "grow up" or acknowledge something, invent various kinds of the even most absurd arguments, present aggression, envy or just troll.

Look at the thread about Botani - it doesn't grow, because no one is willing to fight with people just because they want some work done on particular race. Same under the topic of Broken - people just take a comments about how would they like to implement particular race. This also could be another thread like that - just with people particularly interested in what High Elf is, and what it could be.

yeah and do you rememebr your aliance friends idea that maghar will be Aliance race under saurfang? One of the Hilarious things. And sethak who are on Zandalar? This thread didn't grow because how ridiculus they were. And by seeing what happening there and in HE discord i see that biggest part of this "HE fans" only want "cool elves" on their side and they don't care about lore at all. And i especialy love reasons they bring: they wanted to be Moraly right, they didn't betrayed old aliances (nonexistant, this was totaly coexisting for benefit of both races), i see this type of people only as hypocrites who don't care about lore at all and just want fancy elf on good guys side.

People who direct so much aggression towards High Elf fans, would't be the ones, whom I would ask for permission for anything - sorry for that. Apart from the fact that this is neither mine, nor yours decision.

then what are you doing in this thread and why you even created account for posting there? Why i am not shouting on every corner for Dragonkin race (and yes i want them, but i will wait)?

[Geckoo]

i would just list you this:
WotLK - elves done nothing big, they "existed there just to be for being opposition to blood elves"
Cata - again nothing "big" achieved, apart from "just existing"
Pandaria - BIG APPEARANCE! As Jaina hounds and part of Kirin Tor Offensive "faction"
WoD - nothig - orc expansion
Legion - Again "Big appearance". As another tool to develop Blood elf and Nighborn story they come WITH TYRANDE. You see? While horde part was represented only by elves - Aliance need 2 different "faction" of elves to be equal. And even more - Elisande consider "High elves" are PEASANTS WHO MINDLE WITH LESSER RACES. Wich lead to NOT bigger numbers (when you bring this argument) but rather growing number of HALFBREED. Even Elisande consider them as "dying" offshot.

So a full fledged playable race has more screen time and development than an NPC race.

Even as NPC's, even as supporting NPC's for blood elf development... they are still more represented than some playable races, they had some development over the years. They basically existed for a long time, and that's more that can be said about most allied races.

So that's hardly an argument against anything, specially when it comes to allied races, considering that every allied race comes with whatever lore is needed to justify them as a playable race.

[Sigxy]

So I know there's a couple of people who outright refuses to accept that you CAN attempt to look like a High Elf, while playing one of the other elves. Y'all should know by now that I am not pro-high elf in the sense that they should be their own allied race. BUT I still support the idea of making blue eyes an option for the Blood Elves.

I even rolled a new character. He's just around 20 and I think he already look High Elven like crazy! Totally going blue eyes for him when it's a thing. And until then, gold once they are around.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...78/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...20/unknown.png

Sure, it's Horde side - but I like High Elves enough that I am willing to cosplay one while not Alliance (even though I like Alliance more than the Horde. Only time I liked the Horde was when I was so young I hadn't even turned into a teenager. x_x). I feel like I don't need High Elves as their own race just to accomplish this satisfaction I'm having. *shrugs*

[Ithekro]

So a full fledged playable race has more screen time and development than an NPC race.

Even as NPC's, even as supporting NPC's for blood elf development... they are still more represented than some playable races, they had some development over the years. They basically existed for a long time, and that's more that can be said about most allied races.

So that's hardly an argument against anything, specially when it comes to allied races, considering that every allied race comes with whatever lore is needed to justify them as a playable race.

And that has basically been my point for most of this thread. They are there and have been there the whole time. They have more development than Gnomes for sure, and more screentime than Worgen. They have about as much as the dwarves presently among Alliance races, with Magni the Diamond Dwarf starting to edge them out of that spot. Compared to the Horde races? They have more time than Goblins, Darkspear Trolls, probably Tauren, and are just under Blood Elves right now, since the Forsaken and Orcs are the main focus races, with Blood Elves third and not nearly as often.

With as many appearances as they have, of course people are going to want to play them, and get frustrated with Blizzard when told you can't for reasons...some of which don't make sense anymore given how they've implemented Allied Races. Before that the population argument made at least some sense because of the need for a Staring Zone (even though Trolls and Gnomes didn't have one of their own until CATA, and even that is more like a glorified starting hub/sub-region). Now Allied Races only need starting hub for character creation and a place to pick up their heritage armor. Anything else they might need would be part of, whenever they are implemented, the most recent content. Be that a zone they are invested in, or a campaign they are involved with, or even just a tangent questing ideal that give someone the idea to go seek them out for the unlock quest chain.

Since the Highmountain quest chain sent you all over the place, it is entirely possible for a hypothetical High Elf unlock chain being to go gather up the surviving High Elf groups for a meaning with the two allied Windrunner Sisters. Its time to reunite and either forge a destiny, or commit to retaking Silvermoon from the Horde. That sort of thing. A unification of the scattered High Elf leaders and forces. Some will come, some won't. All might need aid from the Champion of Azeroth with a local issue, or some reasoning as to why should they help the Alliance, or why should they reunite the remaining High Elves at all. This could be the best excuse to rename them for their new Allied Race.

[DeicideUH]

i would just list you this:
WotLK - elves done nothing big, they "existed there just to be for being opposition to blood elves"
Cata - again nothing "big" achieved, apart from "just existing"
Pandaria - BIG APPEARANCE! As Jaina hounds and part of Kirin Tor Offensive "faction"
WoD - nothig - orc expansion
Legion - Again "Big appearance". As another tool to develop Blood elf and Nighborn story they come WITH TYRANDE. You see? While horde part was represented only by elves - Aliance need 2 different "faction" of elves to be equal. And even more - Elisande consider "High elves" are PEASANTS WHO MINDLE WITH LESSER RACES. Wich lead to NOT bigger numbers (when you bring this argument) but rather growing number of HALFBREED. Even Elisande consider them as "dying" offshot.

WotLK: They were the main Alliance representatives in Dalaran and the Tournament and were featured as opposition to a major Horde race. That makes them big enough to stand on their own feet.

Pandaria: You forgot to mention they conducted the Purge of Dalaran, and Vereesa was the main character (and boss level, like Jaina) that we quested with during the opening of Isle of Thunder. Also, the "Kirin Tor Offensive" has more Silver Covenant troops than dalaran ones, and even the Dalaran ones have high elves in their midst. Just take a walk around Violet Rise!

Legion: First, don't forget the Hunter campaign, in which the Silver Covenant is the first ranger order to ally with the Unseen Path, and is put as one of the main ranger orders, together with the Farstriders and getting more screen time than Sentinels and Dark Rangers. Vereesa is also featured in the Thas'dorah storyline.

As for the remarks about halfbreeds, that only shows they are a true offshoot. The reasons you put them down are the same ones a lot of people like them. We feel fine with them being a mongrel race that is slowly finding their own path.

[Traveler Voltin]

So what you are saying is high elves need to die for other alliance races to get screen time

[Zorish]

So what you are saying is high elves need to die for other alliance races to get screen time

you know i like your idea maybe from now "High elves" start losing screen time to not agitate their fans, and slowly will be forgotten.

[Deleted]

It would take the place of something with an identity of its own

We heard, that they were talking about like 20 races as considered as possible for BfA. Ion said, that his personal limit is 40 per faction. When I have been counting on existing races, that I would like to see implemented in time - I ended with number 61.

As the Warcraft universe grows, significance of single exception becomes less important with time, and so - more likely. Moreover I'm not sure, if ailed race system is at this point even designed to maintain current race diversity, or it is already compromise, and lowering the bar - as we saw Dark Irons and Void Elves, and see much demands for Wildhammer also.

and would damage faction lines.

You probably know, that I already addressed this one - I absolutely do not agree with such statement. Factions actually benefits on close parallel storytelling, or so called "mirroring". It's easier to make tension on such conflicts grow. I personally perfectly understand, why they didin't remove Silver Covenant. However I'm afraid, they won't be able to keep the cake, and eat the cake, at the same time anymore with allied race system.

The reality of the situation is that no matter how they are introduced, there will be permanent damage to the game.

That's very far-going statement... Especially after Pandaren, and Void Elves.

I understand Your points, and consider them important too. Lowering the bar for new races should nor become a rule. I even hope there still will be still some fully implemented races, outside allied race system. However - we just get system designed perfectly to introduce some of well established in WoW more classic races. And that is why I assume, that compromise is under consideration.

people simply don't mean the same thing when they say, "We want Alliance High Elves to be playable." Even within this thread, there is disagreement about what exactly that means. Some believe it should be the Silver Covenant, with a strong arcane connection, others believe it should be the Quel'Danil High Elves, with their strict rejection of magic, and still others believe they should be taken from the Allerian Stronghold, as if they were trapped in the wild with some older version of high elf culture. There are numerous other ideas as to what high elves might be, including lightning based concepts, blue dragon based concepts, and many more. Blizzard cannot possibly satisfy all of the people who want High Elves, because their expectations are often contradictory.

I see those differences to. However where You see only danger, I could see also opportunities.

First of all - there is still common ground between that ideas, even in contradictory in particular - they all fall under the umbrella of more classic elf representations, than we usually met in WoW. When introduced, they were just balancing between high-elf-niche and forest-elf-niche, now - they have multiple connexions with many elements of the world.

They also show that the possible flexibility of High Elf concept, and field of compromises is in fact huge. Lest's think - golden eyes, and green eyes seem to prove, that Blizzard is able to portray one race, as based on more than one pillar, right? Tirasian story, is prof, that ideas of trace mixing can be implemented not just under open banner of "half elves" but also as secondary feature. Idea of stormforged elves can be integrated to story about searching new ways of balancing arcane and/or nature, and give some more customization options. "Celtic elves ideas" is in fact highly compatible with ranger themes. Presence of tendency to reject magic seem to be in fact compatible with... even having mages as playable class, as it is seen with Night Elves, right? Silver Covenant and Blue Dragon cooperating elves could be in fact beginnings of the new racial factions, and institutions, even if not main source of playable race population - like Highborne are way of preservation of Arcane practices in Night Elf society, or like Farstriders and Magisters are pillars of Blood Elven one. And least but not last, as I said few times Silver Covenant can act like a conductor in scenario bringing other High Elves to Alliance.

Maybe there would be scraps, as there always are some. But it is highly untrue, that nothing interesting and unique can be sculpted from this puzzles. Such variety of motifs offers possibility of creating many new stories, introduce new tensions and conflicts. And yet, they are all much likely to be recognized as High Elves, than Void Elves, or Blood Elves.

Once again, why even ask for high elves?

Because ideas of having classic elves, and close parallel stories, with so called "mirroring", are both very appealing and strong. And so is nostalgia. Those are three reasons, that could easily sustain requests for another decade.

When it comes for Half Elves - this is not a Blizzard favorable solution, to introduce half-breeds under open banner, as it limits diversity, rather than stimulates it. So if ever - they gonna be anyway fused with High Elven concepts, in way similar to Mok'Nathal and Tirasians. This is not solution totally unacceptable as compromise - if only grounded in High Elf story and classical elven aesthetics.

future development by returning warcraft on rails of common fantasy? i see "good" development there.

Better than You might think. Creativity, despite what people might think, is not the art of creating from nothing, but rather art of rearranging existing and known images in appealing way.

We both know the level of shitstorm what can happen if blizzard would sell Silvermoon (and Sunwell) to Aliance. 0,000000000001% that this gonna happen

Lesser, than ten decade of High Elf conflicts? These are bad ideas I agree. Houever Blizzard is not master of subtlety, so maybe compromise would be better? Fair share of Thalasian motifs instead of fighting upon them all, no matter, if they are useful for current choice of development?

don't care about lore at all.

I stated in my first post, that I don't care about lore anymore. I once cared a little bit, and liked lore based discussions, but in recent 12 years I have grown up to understand, that It is not worth any effort, when someone constantly changes and rewrites story, being interested only in how to sell it at the current moment.

they wanted to be Moraly right

Yes, and so?

If I was the one, who was writing the Warcraft story, it would be probably more darker, much more dystopian, tragic. Significantly limited when it comes to happy endings, and redemption motifs, with all actions and decisions resulting in some inevitable consequences, lack of easy answers and lack of ones who You can trust. But If people would want to identify oneself with the moral high ground - I would let them with proper cost. Ethical disagreement is still potent in Thalasian elf story, and game itself should not decide who was right, but instead - show different outcomes. High Elves do not have their homeland, and should never have it again - isn't that goos point to start a story, about those who came to terms with it, and those, who will never do?

So what you are saying is high elves need to die for other alliance races to get screen time

Possible, but rather unlikely, as well as reunion, or giving Blood Elves blue eyes. Cause - why would Blizzard chose to resign from the trope, that sells well, and catches attention?

[Nuggsy]

This thread gets away with a lot. After reading several pages I've noticed many agendas being pushed that would get other threads shut down. After I read someone accuse people of 'mansplaning' I couldn't help but facepalm. I've also notice this thread gets a lot of people banned. I see it pop up in my 'recents' and while I have my own opinion on High Elves it astounds me what goes on in here.

[FlubberPuddy]

This thread gets away with a lot. After reading several pages I've noticed many agendas being pushed that would get other threads shut down. After I read someone accuse people of 'mansplaning' I couldn't help but facepalm. I've also notice this thread gets a lot of people banned. I see it pop up in my 'recents' and while I have my own opinion on High Elves it astounds me what goes on in here.

Talking about shutting down the thread is silly in its own right. This thread was never designed with the intention of being "add High Elves to the game please" it began as a concepts thread for the Silver Covenant and while that may have been an undertone, the people trying to "shut this down" are just those that want to gloat and lord over the fact that High Elves aren't coming anytime soon, if at all.

It's like people who hate carnivals, going to a carnival, and then being disgusted by what they see and wanting it shut down, does that not look utterly stupid? Just don't visit the carnival (thread). Unsubscribe from its notifications (something people wouldn't have to do if they never posted in it in the first place if they greatly dislike the topic).

I say let the people who want to share their non-trolly High Elf artwork do so, and indeed a few posters every now and then have.

But this thread got changed to the title of High Elf Discussion so the discussions about High Elves all happen around here too.

Both purposes of the thread still exists. Therefore, not sure what "agendas being pushed" relate to having this thread be shut down.

- - - Updated - - -

I see those differences to. However where You see only danger, I could see also opportunities.

First of all - there is still common ground between that ideas, even in contradictory in particular - they all fall under the umbrella of more classic elf representations, than we usually met in WoW. When introduced, they were just balancing between high-elf-niche and forest-elf-niche, now - they have multiple connexions with many elements of the world.

They also show that the possible flexibility of High Elf concept, and field of compromises is in fact huge. Lest's think - golden eyes, and green eyes seem to prove, that Blizzard is able to portray one race, as based on more than one pillar, right? Tirasian story, is prof, that ideas of trace mixing can be implemented not just under open banner of "half elves" but also as secondary feature. Idea of stormforged elves can be integrated to story about searching new ways of balancing arcane and/or nature, and give some more customization options. "Celtic elves ideas" is in fact highly compatible with ranger themes. Presence of tendency to reject magic seem to be in fact compatible with... even having mages as playable class, as it is seen with Night Elves, right? Silver Covenant and Blue Dragon cooperating elves could be in fact beginnings of the new racial factions, and institutions, even if not main source of playable race population - like Highborne are way of preservation of Arcane practices in Night Elf society, or like Farstriders and Magisters are pillars of Blood Elven one. And least but not last, as I said few times Silver Covenant can act like a conductor in scenario bringing other High Elves to Alliance.

Maybe there would be scraps, as there always are some. But it is highly untrue, that nothing interesting and unique can be sculpted from this puzzles. Such variety of motifs offers possibility of creating many new stories, introduce new tensions and conflicts. And yet, they are all much likely to be recognized as High Elves, than Void Elves, or Blood Elves.

Not even that, but who cares that there isn't a consensus within the community? The WoW community is incredibly large, it's always going to be tough to have a consensus. There's people that want Nathanos style Undead Allied Races and people that wish for San'layn, two conflicting styles of Undead. Does that mean Blizzard is going to go, "shoot there's no real consensus on what kind of Undead Allied Race they want, guess we won't do one/will hold off till there is" that's utterly dumb line of thinking.

Blizzard will add the Allied Races they feel that players will enjoy either based on their own personal decisions or from what they garner from player feedback.

This thread and other High Elf threads like it that showcase ideas for High Elves are merely to provide a springboard of ideas for Blizzard to choose from and run with it. It's not supposed to be a "let's try to find a way to include everyone's interpretation of High Elves in"

For instance, using myself as an example, I want Alliance High Elf Paladins to be available, but if they're ever added and don't have the Paladin class available I'll understand the conceits that were made (too much of a Blood Elf thing in WoW etc etc). I already know there is that possibility, but until they come out with info putting a hard "no" on it then people will always continue to ask.

Hell people still ask for Undead Paladins even though Blizzard explained it the same way Void Elves can't be Paladins.

If those who want them still wish to make the requests, they should do so. The only reason people to shut down or stamp out the requests is to make themselves feel better about "yes no more talk of High Elves meaning the want for them has died down."

Doesn't matter if I ever stop playing WoW or not, I'll continue hoping for Alliance High Elves to be added. Heck I always wanted Demon Hunters to be added, and ended up quitting the game around Firelands, Cata, far long before Demon Hunters actually became a thing.

Not to say people quit over Demon Hunters and that's why Blizzard released em, but I have seen a few others say similar things about High Elves, "Blizzard will save them as a last resort when it's needed for WoW, just like DHs"

[Aldo Hawk]

This thread gets away with a lot. After reading several pages I've noticed many agendas being pushed that would get other threads shut down. After I read someone accuse people of 'mansplaning' I couldn't help but facepalm. I've also notice this thread gets a lot of people banned. I see it pop up in my 'recents' and while I have my own opinion on High Elves it astounds me what goes on in here.

I know from where you read that 'mansplaining' thing... I would not call that mansplaining, but i would call it abuse of weaker.

You know, that guy knew that Kaira is a weak person (sorry Kaira, saying 'i'm gonna block people and leave the discussion' like 5 times is a signal of weakeness), so he took that and attacked her aggressively to make her leave once for all, and that is a dirty move that people have the right to point out.

This thread is not even about agendas, people have their own philosophy and speak in their own way, but that doesn't deviate the thread as discussing in a dishonest way, i hope you understand this.