Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Obelisk Kai]

This is a real good summary of the issue. The thought "Blood Elves ARE High Elves! You can't take what makes the Horde 'Horde!'" can't even be called short-sighted, it's basically being blind. Not only are High Elves an Alliance race first and foremost, but the High Elves that became Blood Elves became them with their own history, failings, and successes.

High Elves are not an Alliance race first and foremost. In fact they were the last race to join the Alliance and they did so under compulsion. They were also the very first to leave the Alliance. Secondly 'High Elves that became Blood Elves became them with their own history, failings, and successes.' is such an incorrect statement it's hard to know where to begin.

Blood Elves are High Elves. They changed the name. In every other respect they are the High Elves.

They possess the land of Quel'thalas, the city of Silvermoon, the Sunwell, the Farstriders, the Magisters, the Blood Knights and an unbroken lineage of rulers. The Blood Elves did not abandon their past when they renamed themselves, it is those in the Alliance who left their people, not the other way around.

To say "Play Horde, Blood Elves ARE High Elves" is hurting both Blood Elves and High Elves in terms of identity.

Blood Elves ARE High Elves. This does not hurt their identity because it is a statement of fact and has been stated by the devs on multiple occasions, the most recent being four weeks ago. Pretending that the High Elves in the Alliance are radically different from the Blood Elves is a stance motivated solely by the desire to prove they are different enough to qualify as an Allied race. We have too much in game evidence and word of god evidence from the developers to give that notion credence.

To make things worse, there's a section of players that think that the addition of High Elves to the Alliance would destroy faction balance -- to that, I'd say "awesome", since Horde is 40%+ Blood Elf (already ridiculous), total A:H percentage is 48%/52%, and the top progression guilds are something like 80% Horde. (Here's a video about that whole mess). A more diverse Horde would be excellent, as someone who's played far more on Horde than on Alliance and as someone who is a massive fan of Sin'dorei.

Faction balance is irrelevant in terms of numbers in my opinion. Faction integrity and identity are more important. Granting a duplicate of a core Horde race to the Alliance undermines that integrity, 'blurring the faction lines' as Ion put it.

Issues with the top raiding guilds, which represent a tiny proportion of the playerbase, are not going to be solved by the addition of Alliance High Elves, something which would have an impact on everyone else in the game.

The Horde is already plenty diverse regardless. Everyone has the choice of what to play. Blood Elves are the most popular. Elves are always popular.

[Aldo Hawk]

High Elves are not an Alliance race first and foremost. In fact they were the last race to join the Alliance and they did so under compulsion. They were also the very first to leave the Alliance. Secondly 'High Elves that became Blood Elves became them with their own history, failings, and successes.' is such an incorrect statement it's hard to know where to begin.

Blood Elves are High Elves. They changed the name. In every other respect they are the High Elves.

They possess the land of Quel'thalas, the city of Silvermoon, the Sunwell, the Farstriders, the Magisters, the Blood Knights and an unbroken lineage of rulers. The Blood Elves did not abandon their past when they renamed themselves, it is those in the Alliance who left their people, not the other way around.

What is the matter on BE having BE things? and Why is important the chronology of events? HE are alliance now, the past, is past. Do you want to talk about Gilneas?

[Obelisk Kai]

What is the matter on BE having BE things? and Why is important the chronology of events? HE are alliance now, the past, is past. Do you want to talk about Gilneas?

Not really no, this is the High Elf thread.

The point is that the Blood Elves are the High Elves, and that by demonstrating that they possess everything that makes a High Elf a High Elf, it goes to show that just as Ion said, as Chris said, as the game says on numerous occasions, Blood Elves are High Elves, the true High Elves of the Warcraft universe and that if you want to play a High Elf, the option is available.

[Aldo Hawk]

Not really no, this is the High Elf thread.

The point is that the Blood Elves are the High Elves, and that by demonstrating that they possess everything that makes a High Elf a High Elf, it goes to show that just as Ion said, as Chris said, as the game says on numerous occasions, Blood Elves are High Elves, the true High Elves of the Warcraft universe and that if you want to play a High Elf, the option is available.

Why is Gilneas in the Alliance? they were some of the first to leave, and they re-entered later on, after the Northrend events, and you know why i point this out.

Quel'thalas, Silvermoon, Sunwell, Bloodknights, all those are exclusively BE things, magisters and 'farstriders' (a flavor of rangers) is the less BE things that they have.

[Grythletubs]

Not really no, this is the High Elf thread.

The point is that the Blood Elves are the High Elves, and that by demonstrating that they possess everything that makes a High Elf a High Elf, it goes to show that just as Ion said, as Chris said, as the game says on numerous occasions, Blood Elves are High Elves, the true High Elves of the Warcraft universe and that if you want to play a High Elf, the option is available.

There are high elves in the Alliance though, and they've received even more spotlight than their fellow blood elf brethren. They are an allied race, just not playable. That's enough of a reason for me to see them being playable in the future.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove, high elves are part of the Alliance even if blood elves are on the Horde.

[Friendlyimmolation]

There are high elves in the Alliance though, and they've received even more spotlight than their fellow blood elf brethren. They are an allied race, just not playable. That's enough of a reason for me to see them being playable in the future.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove, high elves are part of the Alliance even if blood elves are on the Horde.

In what reality is that true?

[Grythletubs]

In what reality is that true?

Have you watches any of the cinematics or listened to voice overs lately involving elves latelt? Most of them involve silver covenenant, Vereesa and Alleria.

The only active blood elf npcs we've seen is Liadrin.

The same thing is clear with the books. Little to no blood elf presence in comparison to dear Vereesa.

If people want high elves to stop being requested, they should probably ask Blizzard to stop flaunting them with every opportunity.

They're an alliance allied race that's received more spotlight than any other race in the Alliance other than humans, yet requesting them being playable is somehow outrageous?
Reflect on that for a moment.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Have you watches any of the cinematics or listened to voice overs lately involving elves latelt? Most of them involve silver covenenant, Vereesa and Alleria.

A moment of lore does not outweigh every single story the blood elves have, they absolutely crush the high elves in lore and focus. Name one important high elf outside of Alleria and Vereesa with even a smidgen of story.

If people want high elves to stop being requested, they should probably ask Blizzard to stop flaunting them with every opportunity.

People won't stop, but it doesn't magically increase the likelyhood they will be playable, nor does it make the High elves more important than they actually have been.

They're an alliance allied race that's received more spotlight than any other race in the Alliance other than humans, yet requesting them being playable is somehow outrageous?
Reflect on that for a moment.

You mean they are a fragment of a Horde race. And it always boils down to that. It's outrageous because of that and always will be. Perhaps some people need to reflect more on the reasons why they are not playable alliance side, and enjoy that Blizzard just doesn't kill off the High elves like they could easily do to close the subject off.

or you can see how Blizzard has already taken some high elves out of the beta, or in the Warfront's case, turned them into blood elves and put them on the Horde side instead.

[Gurluas]

It still comes off as way too entitled.

You don't have to move across the country to role Horde, nor is is reasonable to ask the Game's design to bend to your whims because you don't like how they design things.

Blizzard does not owe people high elves.

Actually you have to do more than move across a country, you have to have your soul leave your body and jump into the body of a politically enemy faction that has recently become more and more extremist and arguably evil.

It'd be like advertising Chips to the British and then never release them, but tell them they're too similar to French fries, and they can move to Vichy France and join them if they want chips during WW2.

(PS. Chips are what British fries are called in the UK, I don't mean the snack)

[FlubberPuddy]

or you can see how Blizzard has already taken some high elves out of the beta, or in the Warfront's case, turned them into blood elves and put them on the Horde side instead.

Yes, one High Elf NPC, after the fact they tried to say "High Elves aren't really active out there" (when before they were placed in the Warfront for BfA). Most likely a case of Ion trying to save face, "wtf are these HEs doing here? Make em BE like i said!!"

But not only that they corrected Frostfencer Seraphi's Eyes and even changed the name of the team to Auric's Angels. Auric who holds the literal title "High Elf Representative."

It still is, as always has been, the potential for High Elves to exist and their inclusion as a playable race for a future. Here I have a better idea, someone with a Twitter, why not just ask Muffinus if they are still potential for later or did Ion's answer mean "no forever."

He elaborated once before, he could do so again?

Regardless, if playable or not, High Elves certainly have a place in the game among Alliance, and this continues to be shown in BfA.

[Obelisk Kai]

There are high elves in the Alliance though, and they've received even more spotlight than their fellow blood elf brethren.

It is fundamentally impossible for a group that is not playable to receive more spotlight than a race that is playable.

As for the Alliance High Elves receiving more spotlight in BFA I do not see it. If you are counting Alleria's participation as High Elf spotlight, this is incorrect. The Void Elf racial leader's participation counts as Void Elf, not Alliance High Elf.

There were High Elf NPCs added to the warfronts in an earlier beta build, but SOMETHING (I can't for the life of me think what...) caused Blizzard to reconsider, convert them into Horde Blood Elves and replace them with Human NPCs.

The only Alliance High Elves who could have a presence in BFA is Frostfencer Seraphi and of course Veressa. But any plot Veressa will have will almost certainly be in your usual role of supporting someone else, in this case Alleria and the Void Elf plot.

They are an allied race, just not playable. That's enough of a reason for me to see them being playable in the future.

An Allied race is by definition playable. As Alliance High Elves are not playable, they are not an Allied race. My reasoning for them NOT being playable in the future was the analysis provided by the game director where he said that Alliance High Elves would blur the faction lines too much, that Blood Elves are High Elves ( and so High Elves are playable) and that Void Elves were created as a thematically distinct variant for the Alliance to enjoy.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove, high elves are part of the Alliance even if blood elves are on the Horde.

I am not trying to prove anything. I do not need to prove anything. My position is backed up by all in game evidence and by all out of game evidence. That a tiny number of High Elves are with the Alliance does not change that the vast majority of their race, who control everything of value to their race, are loyal members of the Horde.

[Bigby]

With Calia being set up as a replacement for Sylvanas and the very, very low chance she'd ever lead them against the Alliance, I can't help but wonder if they're just going to do away with the factions at the end of BfA.

If that were the case, it would certainly make some sense why they'd so desperately be gripping the 'No High Elf Allied Race' wheel when in less than one expansion the difference would literally be an eye colour swap in-game and no faction barrier between them.

[Grythletubs]

It is fundamentally impossible for a group that is not playable to receive more spotlight than a race that is playable.

As for the Alliance High Elves receiving more spotlight in BFA I do not see it. If you are counting Alleria's participation as High Elf spotlight, this is incorrect. The Void Elf racial leader's participation counts as Void Elf, not Alliance High Elf.

There were High Elf NPCs added to the warfronts in an earlier beta build, but SOMETHING (I can't for the life of me think what...) caused Blizzard to reconsider, convert them into Horde Blood Elves and replace them with Human NPCs.

The only Alliance High Elves who could have a presence in BFA is Frostfencer Seraphi and of course Veressa. But any plot Veressa will have will almost certainly be in your usual role of supporting someone else, in this case Alleria and the Void Elf plot.



An Allied race is by definition playable. As Alliance High Elves are not playable, they are not an Allied race. My reasoning for them NOT being playable in the future was the analysis provided by the game director where he said that Alliance High Elves would blur the faction lines too much, that Blood Elves are High Elves ( and so High Elves are playable) and that Void Elves were created as a thematically distinct variant for the Alliance to enjoy.



I am not trying to prove anything. I do not need to prove anything. My position is backed up by all in game evidence and by all out of game evidence. That a tiny number of High Elves are with the Alliance does not change that the vast majority of their race, who control everything of value to their race, are loyal members of the Horde.

OK great, there are still high elves on the Alliance though, and like I said they get almost as much attention as humans.
Even if there's only 500 high elves, they're still there, are given attention by the devs and if they aren't killed off, people will keep requesting them.

It would be the same if there was a horde race being flaunted around and they weren't playable, but horde do not have such a race unless you consider undead Sylvannas her own race.

Your reason, Ion's reasoning and his no do not change the fact that High elves are very much there (and often focused upon) in the Alliance. I don't think people requesting high elves are wrong, I think the devs are wrong for constantly featuring an alliance race and then being shocked when people want to play them.

Edit: Also to address your first comment, high elves do receive more attention in game and in the books than blood elves do. And when blood elves are given attention, high elves seem to always be involved. I'm not referring to gameplay.

[Darththeo]

OK great, there are still high elves on the Alliance though, and like I said they get almost as much attention as humans.
Even if there's only 500 high elves, they're still there, are given attention by the devs and if they aren't killed off, people will keep requesting them.

It would be the same if there was a horde race being flaunted around and they weren't playable, but horde do not have such a race unless you consider undead Sylvannas her own race.

Your reason, Ion's reasoning and his no do not change the fact that High elves are very much there (and often focused upon) in the Alliance.

Alliance High Elves get no where close to as much attention has Humans ... maybe Dwarves or Gnomes ... but Humans get so much Alliance attention it ain't funny. I don't have a problem with High Elves potentially being playable, but don't use hyperbole.

[Byleth]

Again, the classic elf archetype is fulfilled in every way by the Blood Elves except for the allying with Humans and Dwarves part. The best solution was the one already implemented, giving the Alliance a variant of those Elves meaningfully distinguished from the Blood Elves which was accomplished via the Void Elves.

While I acknowledge the debt fantasy owes to lord of the rings, this is not lord of the rings. The tolkien style elves are not friends of Humanity in Warcraft. They stand with the Horde.

Yep, sorry @JdRobespierre - I find his argument more compelling than yours.

I'm going to retire from this thread, because it's literally going nowhere. If alliance one day gets HE's good for them, they worked really hard to get them! I personally don't think this will happen due to already getting VE's and being told in a very clear, kind way from the game director that it's not going to happen.

I would still support the creation of a brand new, distinct race. But I cannot support anything that weaves existing HE's into that.

[Obelisk Kai]

OK great, there are still high elves on the Alliance though, and like I said they get almost as much attention as humans.
Even if there's only 500 high elves, they're still there, are given attention by the devs and if they aren't killed off, people will keep requesting them.

It would be the same if there was a horde race being flaunted around and they weren't playable, but horde do not have such a race unless you consider undead Sylvannas her own race.

Your reason, Ion's reasoning and his no do not change the fact that High elves are very much there (and often focused upon) in the Alliance. I don't think people requesting high elves are wrong, I think the devs are wrong for constantly featuring an alliance race and then being shocked when people want to play them.

Edit: Also to address your first comment, high elves do receive more attention in game and in the books than blood elves do. And when blood elves are given attention, high elves seem to always be involved. I'm not referring to gameplay.

That there are High Elves in the Alliance is irrelevant. They are the exact same race as the Blood Elves and are different in only one respect, political alignment.

In other words, playable High Elves bring nothing unique to the game and the experience of playing a traditional thalassian elf is already available. The Void Elf variant has a distinct theme and look all of it's own. This is why they were made available.

The developers are not wrong in using the Alliance High Elves as a story tool, as they are clearly intended and have always been intended to be. If some players wish to persist in misinterpreting the Alliance High Elves as anything other than a story tool, then that is unfortunate but cannot be helped.

As for the 'attention' they have received, the Alliance High Elves have never carried a story by themselves or for themselves. This demonstrates that they are just a story tool. Any future story involving the Alliance High Elves will have them playing a role in the Blood Elf or Void Elf storylines.

[Grythletubs]

That there are High Elves in the Alliance is irrelevant. They are the exact same race as the Blood Elves and are different in only one respect, political alignment.

In other words, playable High Elves bring nothing unique to the game and the experience of playing a traditional thalassian elf is already available. The Void Elf variant has a distinct theme and look all of it's own. This is why they were made available.

The developers are not wrong in using the Alliance High Elves as a story tool, as they are clearly intended and have always been intended to be. If some players wish to persist in misinterpreting the Alliance High Elves as anything other than a story tool, then that is unfortunate but cannot be helped.

As for the 'attention' they have received, the Alliance High Elves have never carried a story by themselves or for themselves. This demonstrates that they are just a story tool. Any future story involving the Alliance High Elves will have them playing a role in the Blood Elf or Void Elf storylines.

Your story tool statement is extremely subjective considering the amount of races that receive little to no attention, yet are playable. Everyone is a story tool then.
The devs are not wrong to use high elves as a story tool, but they are wrong to constantly use them and then act surprised when people want to play them.

Anywho, my point stands that high elves have been the center of attention in the alliance along with humans, you can't deny that. And that alone is a reason to request them being playable.
There's not a single unplayable race in the horde that's receiving the same treatment as high elves. Also why are you including your speculations about their future? You don't know what's going to happen, keep things in the present please.

- - - Updated - - -

Alliance High Elves get no where close to as much attention has Humans ... maybe Dwarves or Gnomes ... but Humans get so much Alliance attention it ain't funny. I don't have a problem with High Elves potentially being playable, but don't use hyperbole.

I agree that humans receive alot more attention, though high elves are easily in line behind humans regarding attention lorewise.

[Obelisk Kai]

Your story tool statement is extremely subjective considering the amount of races that receive little to no attention, yet are playable.

By virtue of being playable, a race is conferred the status of being a major and important part of it's faction. Every race that makes up the Alliance has at one point or another carried a narrative that contributed to the overall plotline. Some races have done so to a lesser degree than others, but they still did it.

The unplayable Alliance High Elves have never done that and have merely served as a glorified prop thus far. A prop for the Blood Elves. A prop for the Kirin Tor. A prop for Jaina. And now a prop for Alleria and the Void Elves. But never by themselves.

Everyone is a story tool then.
The devs are not wrong to use high elves as a story tool, but they are wrong to constantly use them and then act surprised when people want to play them.

The devs are not surprised by the desire. That some people wish to play Alliance High Elves is not a fact they have suddenly become aware of, they have known about it for many years. They simply have no wish to grant that desire because of the damage it would do to the divide between the factions and because Alliance High Elves are redundant as an option for a playable race, given that High Elves are already playable.

Anywho, my point stands that high elves have been the center of attention in the alliance along with humans, you can't deny that. And that alone is a reason to request them being playable.

Actually I very easily can. I have several Alliance characters and leveled one as recently as last year. During my travels on my Alliance Hunter I found that I was predominantly dealing with Humans and to a lesser extent Night Elves and Dwarves. Draenei began to heavily predominate as I moved into Draenor and Legion content for obvious reasons. Gnomes and Worgen were also healthily represented.

The few High Elves I encountered stood out because I was specifically looking for this 'massive' High Elf presence within the Alliance. I encountered a few, but mostly related to the Silver Covenant as i expected.

All playable races within the Alliance, the real Alliance, were adequately represented.

There's not a single unplayable race in the horde that's receiving the same treatment as high elves.

Undead Elves.

Also why are you including your speculations about their future? You don't know what's going to happen, keep things in the present please.

If we keep it to the present then Alliance High Elves have been ruled out without any possibility of being added. You can't limit the discussion to the present without conceding the discussion entirely.

Your prospects in the future are almost as bleak but we have to entertain they hypothetical if exceptionally unlikely maybe. After all, we have Blizzard's rationale for not adding playable High Elves. They would be basically identical to Blood Elves. All attempts at reimagining them have just been attempts at reinventing the wheel, they don't go far enough whereas Void Elves did go far enough.

So either Alliance High Elves will be the equivalent of reinventing the wheel so that it isn't round or Blizzard has to be convinced that the faction wall isn't important anymore.

Given the former is impossible, you must aim for the later and hope to convince Blizzard to dismantle the two most iconic factions in videogaming, which is the consequence of the removal of the faction wall. Good luck with that one.

[FlubberPuddy]

Undead Elves.

Such pompous blathering and then this ^. Equating Undead Elves to Alliance High Elves then trying to say Pro-HE fans are the ones reaching.

There continues to be no equivalent Horde group comparable to the High Elves of the Silver Covenant. Having continuous story progression as a consistent group and consists of an unplayable race of its Faction alignment.

Undead Elves simply being a "prop" under what Obelisk constitutes as a prop (npcs just being placed there) makes them unequal to Silver Covenant High Elves. Nor those Allerian Stronghold High Elves, nor Highvale Elves.

All of those Alliance High Elves have their own stories. What specific stories do Undead Elves have since WoW and before BfA?

[OreoLover]

The main story of the High Elves is still "went Hordin', see ya." Isn't it, since Burning Crusade?

I don't think there needs to be an "equivalent group" to justify the thought.