Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Aldo Hawk]

No, but if every source in game and out says 'these guys are really rare, practically extinct' and my in game experience limits my exposure to a tiny group based in Dalaran then I'm going to conclude that they are really rare and practically extinct.

Then we come with the population problem again, who was demonstrated as not that important.

[Obelisk Kai]

Then we come with the population problem again, who was demonstrated as not that important.

Except that Blizzard has brought up the population issue themselves on nearly every occasion they've talked about High Elves in depth.

'Date: 29 September 2005 WoW Forums Post by Caydiem

There are still some High Elves in the land, but the majority of those once known as the Quel'dorei no longer fit the bill of "High Elf".

Your comparison with Gnomeregan is a logical conclusion to draw, but incorrect. The Gnomes managed to evacuate a good percentage of their people from their home as it was corrupted from within. Ironforge was close by; they were able to save a good number of their people. Naturally they were indebted to the
Dwarves and, by extension, the Alliance, so they fight for their cause.

The High Elves had less of a chance to flee, as they were surrounded by the vast bulk of the Scourge army as they pressed in and destroyed the Sunwell. Still, some survived, certainly enough to show a presence, right?

And so they did after the destruction of Quel'thalas, fighting for the Alliance, but with the destruction of the Sunwell they found an ever-increasing need, an addiction, for magical power. The remaining Elves were placed under the command of a man named Garithos, who was grossly intolerant of other races and drove the Elves into near-suicidal situations in the hopes they would no longer be his problem.

These remnants of the High Elves -- named Blood Elves in remembrance of their people -- were not stupid, and the commands from their "Alliance" became more and more ludicrous. It was only through the help of the Naga that they were able to survive these grim tasks; time and again, they appeared to aid Prince Kael'thas and his men. The Blood Elves came to realize they could no longer trust in the Alliance. When the offer was extended to join the Naga in service of Illidan Stormrage -- and perhaps find a cure to their addiction to magic -- Kael took it, leaving the Alliance behind.

In short, High Elves are not playable because there are very few true "High Elves" left -- far less so than Gnomes. While there are Blood Elves in much larger supply, they are busy with other pursuits alongside Illidan. You'd certainly not see them fighting side by side with the Alliance anytime soon, not after such betrayal.'


AND

From the Warcraft Encyclopedia


'In consequence, there are so few high elves left on Azeroth today that they cannot be considered a race in anything other than the biological sense.'

And confirmation in a tweet that the Warcraft Encyclopedia is still canon by Blizzard historian Loreology aka Sean Copeland

'@Loreology @Bashiok Warcraft Encyclopedia was disappeared long time, does it means the history information from encyclopedia was abolished？ @GregoryMoonkin @Bashiok Not at all. While there might be some updates to it, its disappearance doesn't mean it's no longer canonical. '

A link to who Sean Copeland is...

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sean_Copeland

And the two interviews in the past seven months, one just over a month ago, where Ion pointed out that there aren't a lot of High Elves left. You've seen them enough times so I'll spare you the embedded links.

So just because the Pro High Elf community THINKS it's argued the population issue away doesn't make it so. As long as Blizzard think there are too few High Elves, then there are too few High Elves.

You don't get to say this doesn't matter because you haven't the authority or ability to disprove it. Only Blizzard can do that.

[In Ogres We Trust]

This entire issue could be resolved if they adjusted the lore and gave the Void Elves Alleria's model/skins (with a sliding scale for levels of corruption).

[Aldo Hawk]

Except that Blizzard has brought up the population issue themselves on nearly every occasion they've talked about High Elves in depth.

'Date: 29 September 2005 WoW Forums Post by Caydiem

There are still some High Elves in the land, but the majority of those once known as the Quel'dorei no longer fit the bill of "High Elf".

Your comparison with Gnomeregan is a logical conclusion to draw, but incorrect. The Gnomes managed to evacuate a good percentage of their people from their home as it was corrupted from within. Ironforge was close by; they were able to save a good number of their people. Naturally they were indebted to the
Dwarves and, by extension, the Alliance, so they fight for their cause.

The High Elves had less of a chance to flee, as they were surrounded by the vast bulk of the Scourge army as they pressed in and destroyed the Sunwell. Still, some survived, certainly enough to show a presence, right?

And so they did after the destruction of Quel'thalas, fighting for the Alliance, but with the destruction of the Sunwell they found an ever-increasing need, an addiction, for magical power. The remaining Elves were placed under the command of a man named Garithos, who was grossly intolerant of other races and drove the Elves into near-suicidal situations in the hopes they would no longer be his problem.

These remnants of the High Elves -- named Blood Elves in remembrance of their people -- were not stupid, and the commands from their "Alliance" became more and more ludicrous. It was only through the help of the Naga that they were able to survive these grim tasks; time and again, they appeared to aid Prince Kael'thas and his men. The Blood Elves came to realize they could no longer trust in the Alliance. When the offer was extended to join the Naga in service of Illidan Stormrage -- and perhaps find a cure to their addiction to magic -- Kael took it, leaving the Alliance behind.

In short, High Elves are not playable because there are very few true "High Elves" left -- far less so than Gnomes. While there are Blood Elves in much larger supply, they are busy with other pursuits alongside Illidan. You'd certainly not see them fighting side by side with the Alliance anytime soon, not after such betrayal.'


AND

From the Warcraft Encyclopedia


'In consequence, there are so few high elves left on Azeroth today that they cannot be considered a race in anything other than the biological sense.'

And confirmation in a tweet that the Warcraft Encyclopedia is still canon by Blizzard historian Loreology aka Sean Copeland

'@Loreology @Bashiok Warcraft Encyclopedia was disappeared long time, does it means the history information from encyclopedia was abolished？ @GregoryMoonkin @Bashiok Not at all. While there might be some updates to it, its disappearance doesn't mean it's no longer canonical. '

A link to who Sean Copeland is...

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sean_Copeland

And the two interviews in the past seven months, one just over a month ago, where Ion pointed out that there aren't a lot of High Elves left. You've seen them enough times so I'll spare you the embedded links.

So just because the Pro High Elf community THINKS it's argued the population issue away doesn't make it so. As long as Blizzard think there are too few High Elves, then there are too few High Elves.

You don't get to say this doesn't matter because you haven't the authority or ability to disprove it. Only Blizzard can do that.

And what made them to stop adding VE and Lightforged Draenei?

And Mulgore Tauren, Darkspear Trolls, Gnomes, Steamwheedle Goblins, Exodar Draenei...

Is not about authority of Blizzard (shielding behind that is pity to be honest), is about looking at what exists and compare, you can't simply say the number of population of a race is a problem, and then avoid the fact that HE may be 10 or 20 times more numerous than VE.

The population issue, is not an issue anymore, at least for allied races.

[Grythletubs]

[QUOTE=Obelisk Kai;49456225]

Some notable Troll storylines include the retaking of the Echo Islands, discovering Druidism and the interactions with the Zandalari. These were carried by notable Troll NPCs for Troll purposes.

Some notable Tauren storylines include their struggles with the Centaur, Magatha's coup attempt, the Sunwalker's experiences in Pandaria and most recently bringing the Highmountain into the Horde. These were carried by notable Tauren NPCs for Tauren purposes.

Alliance High Elves have never featured in any similar content for themselves, always for someone else.

So bringing the trolls and tauren up is just a false equivalence.

Ok great tauren and trolls got few little stories, doesn't change the fact that high elves have gotten more attention. Also again, allied races, DI dwarves are "story props" in that case.

Yet Blizzard, who have a holistic view of the entire game, seem to think that there would be damage which is why they are so resistant to acceding to this. Anyone who wants playable Alliance High Elves has to start from a position where they make the intellectual choice to deny that the Blood Elves ARE the High Elves of the Warcraft Universe. Once you do that, you no longer have a holistic view of the game and are willing to tolerate or minimise the damage Alliance High Elves would do to the foundational faction wall.

Either we accept what Blizzard says, that there will be damage, or we accept the viewpoints of fans with an agenda who will suffer anything to get playable Alliance High Elves. Of course, people should listen to the former.

Yet this is all speculation, even if half the blood elves were to race change to high elves (which is EXTREMELY doubtful) the horde will still maintain a strong population. Blood elves are high elves, correct. High elves are also part of the alliance though, and screaming blood elf=high elf will never change that fact.

High Elves are not present in every cinematic. If we are talking about CGI cinematics that open every expansion, they are in precisely zero.

If we are talking about cinematics that occur in game, they are present in only one cinematic that I can recall. Alleria's transformation into a Void Elf. Which also marks the end of her being a High Elf ironically enough.

The Alliance epilogue cinematic, which has members of all Alliance races gathered to hear Anduin's victory speech, has zero High Elves. I counted three Pandaren however, there maybe more.

I cannot recall of any cinematic prior to Legion containing a High Elf.

Books too, lore. High elves are almost always around in every expansion since TBC. They're interacted with or spoken about in any current timeline book.

In terms of books, yes there are a lot of High Elves in those novels. Particularly the ones dealing with the time frame prior to them becoming Blood Elves, leaving the Alliance and joining the Horde. In the books set after this time period, Alliance High Elves in the novel become extremely rare. In fact the only one I can think of is again, Veressa in the god awful Night of the Dragon by Knaak. Here a High Elf finally has their own story...except that's in the book and not in game.

So I am afraid this 'm referring to the lore in which high elves are very present in pretty much every expansion, cinematic and book' doesn't cut it. It appears to be more wishful thinking unsupported by lore or actual examples.

Great we can agree to disagree then, since this is your opinion and apparently you disregard the books. I don't however.

That is a leap of logic in of itself. You are the one who asserted that High Elves should be playable because of their presence within the lore. I have proven that both in game and in the supporting medium, you are wrong about their presence. Previous presence is not a criteria for an Allied race.

Yup I do support high elves being playable, also I am not wrong about their presence...you'd have to block your eyes/ears and shout while playing this game to ignore their presence.
So yeah, again you've proven nothing, I can see you're very passionate about your opinion on how things should be but your long paragraphs are really just your opinionated babbling as to why you don't want a certain feature...that wouldn't affect you...because you wouldn't play them anyways...
Previous presence allied races: DI dwarves, Zandalari, Magh'ar, Kul'tirans. (I'm assuming you're not including Legion)

The Undead Elves are fully integrated into the Forsaken. The leader of the Horde is an Undead Elf. I have seen Dark Rangers several times over the years. I don't desire them to be playable myself, I see them for what they are, a story prop, but there is a certain equivalence between the two groups. Not an exact one, and if you want to point out differences you will no doubt succeed, but the equivalence IS there.

They're story props because they're also undead just like the other undead races. The high elves are not humans, whether they're mixed with humans or not. High elves are high elves whether you consider them equivalent to humans or not. Undead elves have this equivalence because they're part of the undead, under the forsaken. I don't desire to see them playable either, nor do I desire playable high elves, but I'm not against it because they have a significant presence among the horde and the alliance, which makes them playable in my view.

Nightborne are more of a jet blue colour. They are also similar to Void Elves, a variant of an existing race with SOME physical differences but completely thematically different. A Nightborne is as far thematically from a Night Elf as it is possible to be. They are arcane focused and urbane. Contrast that with the Druidic focused and arboreal Night Elves.

To say Nightborne are Night Elves is simply to ignore all evidence to the contrary.

But Blood Elves ARE High Elves, biologically and culturally and thematically and so High Elves are playable.

They're purple/blue elves, just like night elves.

The equivalent alliance race to the nightborne would have been white skinned blood elves...with blue eyes (void elves have blue eyes), but that would apparently "destroy the faction walls and cause dire consequences"?

Void elves didn't only get "some" physical differences, they're completely different, pulled out of nowhere whereas nightborne are night elves with tattoos and a shitty selection of hair options.


I think I finally know how to seperate with quotes, hooray...


Regarding your post about population, darkspear trolls, draenei, gnomes, void elves, LF draenei, worgen, forsaken and goblins would like a word with you. There's also something called reproduction.

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And what made them to stop adding VE and Lightforged Draenei?

And Mulgore Tauren, Darkspear Trolls, Gnomes, Steamwheedle Goblins, Exodar Draenei...

Is not about authority of Blizzard (shielding behind that is pity to be honest), is about looking at what exists and compare, you can't simply say the number of population of a race is a problem, and then avoid the fact that HE may be 10 or 20 times more numerous than VE.

The population issue, is not an issue anymore, at least for allied races.

Even the devs debunked that whole population argument themselves.

- - - Updated - - -

This entire issue could be resolved if they adjusted the lore and gave the Void Elves Alleria's model/skins (with a sliding scale for levels of corruption).

Or if all the high elves became void elves. It would make people sad but at least the alliance high elves would have a real conclusion other than "BLOOD ELFS R HIGH ELFS PLAY HORDE OR GTFO LUL".........or if they all died. I don't like making speculations though.

[FlubberPuddy]

Nightborne are more of a jet blue colour.

This is such a stupid, ignorant, "i close my eyes to the truth" comment.

http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=49427/not-our-purple-elves

Ye know, <name>, these elves might be purple, but they're no' with the Alliance. Leastwise, they're a lot more aggressive than this ol' Dark Iron is comfortable with. On the off chance it'll piss off the Horde, ye mind killin' a few of them?

So the game, and thereby Blizzard, defines Nightborne as purple elves. Because that's exactly what they are. And this is why there's a portion of the community that Ion's reasoning is bullshit and a facade. Even if it is, ultimately, their choice.

- - - Updated - - -

Or if all the high elves became void elves. It would make people sad but at least the alliance high elves would have a real conclusion other than "BLOOD ELFS R HIGH ELFS PLAY HORDE OR GTFO LUL".........or if they all died. I don't like making speculations though.

This, but for some reason Blizzard seem to be moving forward with continuing that Void Elves currently are only Blood Elves.

And there's no hints or signs of Alliance High Elves coming to a demise. Blizzard, for whatever reason, are keeping those group of Alliance elves around for some reason. Dunno what though.

[Evilfish]

Suddenly returns after people were actively wondering if she had been all but retconned (Legion).

Reveal of Forsaken who don't want to keep fighting the Alliance and are sick of Sylvanas.

Dies, but conveniently rather than be ressurected turns into a Forsaken and feels 'closer to her people'.

Characters like Saurfang who actively protest or ditch Sylvanas.

Sylvanas' continuation of dragging the Horde into Villain territory that will inevitably swing back.

The main thing is that Calia was turned undead though. I mean, why the hell would they bring her back AND make her undead for any reason than that?

Villain territory...

The same old bullshit. Villain territory = Not approved by Alliance. Fuck that. You know, if they do decide to kill her again and repeat the Garrosh story cause the Alliance fanboys can't sleep at night because of Sylvanas, I hope she inflicts so much damage that you can whine about it for years to come and screw yourselves over just like you did with Garrosh.

How much you wanna bet if they kill her off this expansion you'll be back shouting "Horde Favoritism" the next expansion? But that would be like betting against the sun rising at dawn since you do that every expansion. You will be the death of this game.

[ls-]

How much you wanna bet if they kill her off this expansion you'll be back shouting "Horde Favoritism" the next expansion?

Oh, if we're going to kill her, people will be saying that the raid where we kill Sylvanas and another batch of prominent Horde figures is yet another example Horde bias. After all people used and still use SoO as an example of Horde bias, lol.

If we, however, don't kill her in BfA or ever, people will be saying that it's Horde bias because Blizz will once again let evul Horde character live.

#EverythingIsHordeBias

[Deleted]

I just wanted to throw this in here, instead of starting a new thread since it involves mostly all this topic going on. I know there has been tuns of poll's this was just a try at a updated one with some of the newer information from beta/novels/comic's etc and just try give a more varied variety than most other polls which are just a broad Horde and Alliance allied races. This is just Alliance It's fine if you disagree with the poll I just wanted to try see updated information.

https://www.strawpoll.me/15777306/r

[protip]

I just wanted to throw this in here, instead of starting a new thread since it involves mostly all this topic going on. I know there has been tuns of poll's this was just a try at a updated one with some of the newer information from beta/novels/comic's etc and just try give a more varied variety than most other polls which are just a broad Horde and Alliance allied races. This is just Alliance It's fine if you disagree with the poll I just wanted to try see updated information.

https://www.strawpoll.me/15777306/r

You're not going to get very accurate data from posting in this thread, just saying.

[Sigxy]

I just wanted to throw this in here, instead of starting a new thread since it involves mostly all this topic going on. I know there has been tuns of poll's this was just a try at a updated one with some of the newer information from beta/novels/comic's etc and just try give a more varied variety than most other polls which are just a broad Horde and Alliance allied races. This is just Alliance It's fine if you disagree with the poll I just wanted to try see updated information.

https://www.strawpoll.me/15777306/r

Why so many elves? :< Don't get me wrong, I love elves, but why so many elves as options?

[Zulkhan]

Reveal of Forsaken who don't want to keep fighting the Alliance and are sick of Sylvanas

No, those Forsaken simply had relatives in the Alliance and were willing to defect in order to stay with them, nevermind the fact that these Forsaken not only are a minority but a basically "erased" minority after the events of BfA.

Characters like Saurfang who actively protest or ditch Sylvanas.

That's widely unrelated.

Sylvanas' continuation of dragging the Horde into Villain territory that will inevitably swing back.

The Horde doing questionable stuff will hardly put Sylvanas in any danger if it's not going to be followed by a palpable development marking Sylvanas as an actual villain.

The main thing is that Calia was turned undead though. I mean, why the hell would they bring her back AND make her undead for any reason than that?

Who knows, to develop the "Naaru are good-intentioned tyrants" plot since Calia is more or less a pawn of them?

- - - Updated - - -

Why so many elves? :< Don't get me wrong, I love elves, but why so many elves as options?

"Snow Elves"

I fucking hope that shit ain't anything serious, because if it is...oh boy.

[FlubberPuddy]

I just wanted to throw this in here, instead of starting a new thread since it involves mostly all this topic going on. I know there has been tuns of poll's this was just a try at a updated one with some of the newer information from beta/novels/comic's etc and just try give a more varied variety than most other polls which are just a broad Horde and Alliance allied races. This is just Alliance It's fine if you disagree with the poll I just wanted to try see updated information.

https://www.strawpoll.me/15777306/r

Like a few others have stated. You won't get accurate data here.

You actually could make a thread about this like how there is a Horde one asking Horde players for their next allied race. This would probably give you a better and closer to objective look at which currently asked for allied races the Alliance players want.

I like the way you worded it though "Current asked for races" that's a good way to focus the discussion and choices.

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Why so many elves? :< Don't get me wrong, I love elves, but why so many elves as options?

I love elves

That's why

[Sigxy]

"Snow Elves"

I fucking hope that shit ain't anything serious, because if it is...oh boy.

We're entering the realms of Elder Scrolls with how many types of elves there are. Or "Dragons & Demons" which had 18 types of elves.

There's no english version of this sadly but, they're there.

http://www.svenskarollspel.nu/wikia/...lvsl.C3.A4kten

That's why

There IS such a thing as "too much of something good". :<

[FlubberPuddy]

There IS such a thing as "too much of something good". :<

People currently asking for it at this moment, does not necessarily mean it's something that needs to be released ASAP. All it is, is letting Blizzard know "hey there's still this desire for this thing."

Whether you or others wish to believe it's a request that'll never happen is a-ok.

It still isn't going to stop those who wish to have it from requesting it. Nor will it stop those hoping for it to happen someday to continue having a hope for it even they stop talking about it for the moment.

All of this is ultimately: We'd still like High Elves. And that's information they can choose to go forward with or not in the future. It was never meant for right now.

Everyone understands Elf Fatigue. But as I told someone else, I'm happy that for sure we're not going to get more purple/blue elves if elves come around again. Especially on Alliance. That is enough to keep me happy

[Deleted]

What is the matter on BE having BE things?

Well, this is crucial.

With Blood Elves being Blood Elves again, argument of them fulfilling the same archetype is lost. With High Elves being playable - Blood Elves can not be forced to imitate classic elves anymore, and have to become unique again.

Erosion of Blood Elf concept is the other side of the coin of not allowing for playable High Elves. Reversing one of them, reverses both.

Yep, sorry @JdRobespierre - I find his argument more compelling than yours.

No need to be sorry, however You probably acknowledge, that I won't agree.

As for me - Elves who mess with forbidden magical practices, and do not stand with classical alliances are not filling the niche, and I found perfectly understandable, that they are not recognized as such.

bring nothing unique to the game

Again - fully depends on way of implementation. Concepts from begging of this thread brings quite much. And You still forgot about bonus from telling close parallel stories.

Undead Elves.

Going to be probably playable very soon. I just hope, that more altered to Nosferatu appearance, than just reskined.

Void Elves are closer to High Elves than Nightborne are to night elves. If you're honestly going to argue that they're the same, you should have no problem accepting Void Elves as a substitute. It's not a deflection, it's a issue of degree.

It's issue of different dimensions. In terms of look - Void Elves are closer. In terms of motifs and themes - they are much further.

Except that Blizzard has brought up the population issue themselves on nearly every occasion they've talked about High Elves in depth.

Well, bringing some argument do not proves yet, the brought argument was honest answer. We are already after bringing this argument, and mostly already know, that it was not honest.

This entire issue could be resolved if they adjusted the lore and gave the Void Elves Alleria's model/skins (with a sliding scale for levels of corruption).

Could not. Ass Void Elves are straight opposite of classical elf theme. It could be solves, if there was will to listen what High Elf fans actually are about.

https://www.strawpoll.me/15777306/r

As much, as I like High Elves, I have to admit, that posting such poll would be rather more honest in this thread...

There IS such a thing as "too much of something good". :<

Maybe, but there are still lacks there. There is for example no Sea Elves - and I could easily think about three different concepts of Sea Elves...

And there is no Nightfallen. Recently I got to conclusion, that if the Horde got cured Nightborne, then Alliance should got some uncured ones, as it needs something less shinny anyway.

[Deleted]

Storm Elves and Snow Elves?

It would be kind of interesting to see concept art of those or unless they have same awesome concept art like this thread.

Just wondering.

Well - Snow Elves could be inspired on encountered in Elder Scrolls. However there are also similar elves in old "Spellforce: the Breath of Winter". I always liked elven and dark elven architecture from this game -







I also would love to also see pure black eyes from Spelforce Dark Elves in Warcraft Void Elves, as I mentioned here in first post -





Sorry for not having awesome concepts

[Deleted]

Well... This is not exactly the look that I would give Void Elves myself, as I don't find that Voidscarred Broken especially convincing.

When I think about being overtaken by the Void, I see rather thing similar in shape to what Arrachi brought to the thread about unrepresented in WoW universe creatures, just in horror convention, than anime. I even planned to take a draw of how could it look like... Or at least like possessed Rasputin in Hellboy - with tentacles twisting under the skin.

Simple recolor is not scary enough for me

[matrix123mko]

Storm Elves and Snow Elves?

It would be kind of interesting to see concept art of those or unless they have same awesome concept art like this thread.

Just wondering.

Would be very interesting. I like when they make completely new race without previous lore. Of course, if they will make some longer background for them, like pandaren, not void elf story.

Everyone understands Elf Fatigue. But as I told someone else, I'm happy that for sure we're not going to get more purple/blue elves if elves come around again. Especially on Alliance. That is enough to keep me happy

I don't understand and I want more more elves for both factions.

[Deleted]

More elves is always fine. Just maybe not only purple ones all the time...

I was wondering already when they did Northrend - why there is no Snow/Frost Elves, if there are already Frostborn Dwarves and Frost Nymphs.