Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Deleted]

It would take the place of something with an identity of its own

We heard, that they were talking about like 20 races as considered as possible for BfA. Ion said, that his personal limit is 40 per faction. When I have been counting on existing races, that I would like to see implemented in time - I ended with number 61.

As the Warcraft universe grows, significance of single exception becomes less important with time, and so - more likely. Moreover I'm not sure, if ailed race system is at this point even designed to maintain current race diversity, or it is already compromise, and lowering the bar - as we saw Dark Irons and Void Elves, and see much demands for Wildhammer also.

and would damage faction lines.

You probably know, that I already addressed this one - I absolutely do not agree with such statement. Factions actually benefits on close parallel storytelling, or so called "mirroring". It's easier to make tension on such conflicts grow. I personally perfectly understand, why they didin't remove Silver Covenant. However I'm afraid, they won't be able to keep the cake, and eat the cake, at the same time anymore with allied race system.

The reality of the situation is that no matter how they are introduced, there will be permanent damage to the game.

That's very far-going statement... Especially after Pandaren, and Void Elves.

I understand Your points, and consider them important too. Lowering the bar for new races should nor become a rule. I even hope there still will be still some fully implemented races, outside allied race system. However - we just get system designed perfectly to introduce some of well established in WoW more classic races. And that is why I assume, that compromise is under consideration.

people simply don't mean the same thing when they say, "We want Alliance High Elves to be playable." Even within this thread, there is disagreement about what exactly that means. Some believe it should be the Silver Covenant, with a strong arcane connection, others believe it should be the Quel'Danil High Elves, with their strict rejection of magic, and still others believe they should be taken from the Allerian Stronghold, as if they were trapped in the wild with some older version of high elf culture. There are numerous other ideas as to what high elves might be, including lightning based concepts, blue dragon based concepts, and many more. Blizzard cannot possibly satisfy all of the people who want High Elves, because their expectations are often contradictory.

I see those differences to. However where You see only danger, I could see also opportunities.

First of all - there is still common ground between that ideas, even in contradictory in particular - they all fall under the umbrella of more classic elf representations, than we usually met in WoW. When introduced, they were just balancing between high-elf-niche and forest-elf-niche, now - they have multiple connexions with many elements of the world.

They also show that the possible flexibility of High Elf concept, and field of compromises is in fact huge. Lest's think - golden eyes, and green eyes seem to prove, that Blizzard is able to portray one race, as based on more than one pillar, right? Tirasian story, is prof, that ideas of trace mixing can be implemented not just under open banner of "half elves" but also as secondary feature. Idea of stormforged elves can be integrated to story about searching new ways of balancing arcane and/or nature, and give some more customization options. "Celtic elves ideas" is in fact highly compatible with ranger themes. Presence of tendency to reject magic seem to be in fact compatible with... even having mages as playable class, as it is seen with Night Elves, right? Silver Covenant and Blue Dragon cooperating elves could be in fact beginnings of the new racial factions, and institutions, even if not main source of playable race population - like Highborne are way of preservation of Arcane practices in Night Elf society, or like Farstriders and Magisters are pillars of Blood Elven one. And least but not last, as I said few times Silver Covenant can act like a conductor in scenario bringing other High Elves to Alliance.

Maybe there would be scraps, as there always are some. But it is highly untrue, that nothing interesting and unique can be sculpted from this puzzles. Such variety of motifs offers possibility of creating many new stories, introduce new tensions and conflicts. And yet, they are all much likely to be recognized as High Elves, than Void Elves, or Blood Elves.

Once again, why even ask for high elves?

Because ideas of having classic elves, and close parallel stories, with so called "mirroring", are both very appealing and strong. And so is nostalgia. Those are three reasons, that could easily sustain requests for another decade.

When it comes for Half Elves - this is not a Blizzard favorable solution, to introduce half-breeds under open banner, as it limits diversity, rather than stimulates it. So if ever - they gonna be anyway fused with High Elven concepts, in way similar to Mok'Nathal and Tirasians. This is not solution totally unacceptable as compromise - if only grounded in High Elf story and classical elven aesthetics.

future development by returning warcraft on rails of common fantasy? i see "good" development there.

Better than You might think. Creativity, despite what people might think, is not the art of creating from nothing, but rather art of rearranging existing and known images in appealing way.

We both know the level of shitstorm what can happen if blizzard would sell Silvermoon (and Sunwell) to Aliance. 0,000000000001% that this gonna happen

Lesser, than ten decade of High Elf conflicts? These are bad ideas I agree. Houever Blizzard is not master of subtlety, so maybe compromise would be better? Fair share of Thalasian motifs instead of fighting upon them all, no matter, if they are useful for current choice of development?

don't care about lore at all.

I stated in my first post, that I don't care about lore anymore. I once cared a little bit, and liked lore based discussions, but in recent 12 years I have grown up to understand, that It is not worth any effort, when someone constantly changes and rewrites story, being interested only in how to sell it at the current moment.

they wanted to be Moraly right

Yes, and so?

If I was the one, who was writing the Warcraft story, it would be probably more darker, much more dystopian, tragic. Significantly limited when it comes to happy endings, and redemption motifs, with all actions and decisions resulting in some inevitable consequences, lack of easy answers and lack of ones who You can trust. But If people would want to identify oneself with the moral high ground - I would let them with proper cost. Ethical disagreement is still potent in Thalasian elf story, and game itself should not decide who was right, but instead - show different outcomes. High Elves do not have their homeland, and should never have it again - isn't that goos point to start a story, about those who came to terms with it, and those, who will never do?

So what you are saying is high elves need to die for other alliance races to get screen time

Possible, but rather unlikely, as well as reunion, or giving Blood Elves blue eyes. Cause - why would Blizzard chose to resign from the trope, that sells well, and catches attention?

[Nuggsy]

This thread gets away with a lot. After reading several pages I've noticed many agendas being pushed that would get other threads shut down. After I read someone accuse people of 'mansplaning' I couldn't help but facepalm. I've also notice this thread gets a lot of people banned. I see it pop up in my 'recents' and while I have my own opinion on High Elves it astounds me what goes on in here.

[FlubberPuddy]

This thread gets away with a lot. After reading several pages I've noticed many agendas being pushed that would get other threads shut down. After I read someone accuse people of 'mansplaning' I couldn't help but facepalm. I've also notice this thread gets a lot of people banned. I see it pop up in my 'recents' and while I have my own opinion on High Elves it astounds me what goes on in here.

Talking about shutting down the thread is silly in its own right. This thread was never designed with the intention of being "add High Elves to the game please" it began as a concepts thread for the Silver Covenant and while that may have been an undertone, the people trying to "shut this down" are just those that want to gloat and lord over the fact that High Elves aren't coming anytime soon, if at all.

It's like people who hate carnivals, going to a carnival, and then being disgusted by what they see and wanting it shut down, does that not look utterly stupid? Just don't visit the carnival (thread). Unsubscribe from its notifications (something people wouldn't have to do if they never posted in it in the first place if they greatly dislike the topic).

I say let the people who want to share their non-trolly High Elf artwork do so, and indeed a few posters every now and then have.

But this thread got changed to the title of High Elf Discussion so the discussions about High Elves all happen around here too.

Both purposes of the thread still exists. Therefore, not sure what "agendas being pushed" relate to having this thread be shut down.

- - - Updated - - -

I see those differences to. However where You see only danger, I could see also opportunities.

First of all - there is still common ground between that ideas, even in contradictory in particular - they all fall under the umbrella of more classic elf representations, than we usually met in WoW. When introduced, they were just balancing between high-elf-niche and forest-elf-niche, now - they have multiple connexions with many elements of the world.

They also show that the possible flexibility of High Elf concept, and field of compromises is in fact huge. Lest's think - golden eyes, and green eyes seem to prove, that Blizzard is able to portray one race, as based on more than one pillar, right? Tirasian story, is prof, that ideas of trace mixing can be implemented not just under open banner of "half elves" but also as secondary feature. Idea of stormforged elves can be integrated to story about searching new ways of balancing arcane and/or nature, and give some more customization options. "Celtic elves ideas" is in fact highly compatible with ranger themes. Presence of tendency to reject magic seem to be in fact compatible with... even having mages as playable class, as it is seen with Night Elves, right? Silver Covenant and Blue Dragon cooperating elves could be in fact beginnings of the new racial factions, and institutions, even if not main source of playable race population - like Highborne are way of preservation of Arcane practices in Night Elf society, or like Farstriders and Magisters are pillars of Blood Elven one. And least but not last, as I said few times Silver Covenant can act like a conductor in scenario bringing other High Elves to Alliance.

Maybe there would be scraps, as there always are some. But it is highly untrue, that nothing interesting and unique can be sculpted from this puzzles. Such variety of motifs offers possibility of creating many new stories, introduce new tensions and conflicts. And yet, they are all much likely to be recognized as High Elves, than Void Elves, or Blood Elves.

Not even that, but who cares that there isn't a consensus within the community? The WoW community is incredibly large, it's always going to be tough to have a consensus. There's people that want Nathanos style Undead Allied Races and people that wish for San'layn, two conflicting styles of Undead. Does that mean Blizzard is going to go, "shoot there's no real consensus on what kind of Undead Allied Race they want, guess we won't do one/will hold off till there is" that's utterly dumb line of thinking.

Blizzard will add the Allied Races they feel that players will enjoy either based on their own personal decisions or from what they garner from player feedback.

This thread and other High Elf threads like it that showcase ideas for High Elves are merely to provide a springboard of ideas for Blizzard to choose from and run with it. It's not supposed to be a "let's try to find a way to include everyone's interpretation of High Elves in"

For instance, using myself as an example, I want Alliance High Elf Paladins to be available, but if they're ever added and don't have the Paladin class available I'll understand the conceits that were made (too much of a Blood Elf thing in WoW etc etc). I already know there is that possibility, but until they come out with info putting a hard "no" on it then people will always continue to ask.

Hell people still ask for Undead Paladins even though Blizzard explained it the same way Void Elves can't be Paladins.

If those who want them still wish to make the requests, they should do so. The only reason people to shut down or stamp out the requests is to make themselves feel better about "yes no more talk of High Elves meaning the want for them has died down."

Doesn't matter if I ever stop playing WoW or not, I'll continue hoping for Alliance High Elves to be added. Heck I always wanted Demon Hunters to be added, and ended up quitting the game around Firelands, Cata, far long before Demon Hunters actually became a thing.

Not to say people quit over Demon Hunters and that's why Blizzard released em, but I have seen a few others say similar things about High Elves, "Blizzard will save them as a last resort when it's needed for WoW, just like DHs"

[Aldo Hawk]

This thread gets away with a lot. After reading several pages I've noticed many agendas being pushed that would get other threads shut down. After I read someone accuse people of 'mansplaning' I couldn't help but facepalm. I've also notice this thread gets a lot of people banned. I see it pop up in my 'recents' and while I have my own opinion on High Elves it astounds me what goes on in here.

I know from where you read that 'mansplaining' thing... I would not call that mansplaining, but i would call it abuse of weaker.

You know, that guy knew that Kaira is a weak person (sorry Kaira, saying 'i'm gonna block people and leave the discussion' like 5 times is a signal of weakeness), so he took that and attacked her aggressively to make her leave once for all, and that is a dirty move that people have the right to point out.

This thread is not even about agendas, people have their own philosophy and speak in their own way, but that doesn't deviate the thread as discussing in a dishonest way, i hope you understand this.

[Zorish]

I stated in my first post, that I don't care about lore anymore. I once cared a little bit, and liked lore based discussions, but in recent 12 years I have grown up to understand, that It is not worth any effort, when someone constantly changes and rewrites story, being interested only in how to sell it at the current moment.

sp you don't care about lore wich you want share with both factions = taking from one and give it to other... i see i see... Sad to have people that want "High elves" only because of model, but i guess it's the real face of big part "HE" community.

Offtop: Kaira by herself started her weakness. Why everyone must care about someone from who knows where? What the reason of posting something about her real life problems in game disscusion thread? And if she think because of that she will be treated like special snowflake... well sorry - WRONG. I have problems in RL, you, this guy, other guy. THIS place not for writing about them.

[FlubberPuddy]

sp you don't care about lore wich you want share with both factions = taking from one and give it to other... i see i see... Sad to have people that want "High elves" only because of model, but i guess it's the real face of big part "HE" community.

There are a lot of BE players who only play them for the model as well, so not sure why this is trying to be painted on the "HE community" only (and even then there are many in this community that prefer lore over looks too). It's not unique to any community, all are like this.

The vast majority of players play for the visuals themselves, not as much for the lore. This can often be seen when there are posts that spring up on places like Reddit where SOs introduce the game to their girlfriends/wives etc and they usually are seen playing BE females, even if said player is on Alliance.

The average person does that. It's typical, normal, and natural.

This can be seen by BE mains as well, they're not outraged over the fact that BEs have lost what made them unique when they were first introduced. For all this talk of "High Elves are the classical elf, so boring, this isn't want WoW's about" the hypocritical-ness comes from not realizing that Blood Elves lost their "mana vampirism esque, don't give a shiet about morals/Holy Light take it by force, pragmatic elves" into pretty much turning into typical "we love the Holy Light just as Humans do" and their only "topsy turvyness" comes from being placed on Horde.

Wow so different, so unique, so edgy (not). Yet you'll see many BE mains (especially on US Forums from what I've seen by their posts) don't care about all that. They're satisfied enough that the "fair skin elves are kept Horde only."

The Void Elves ironically have taken up the older themes of the Blood Elves, by choosing to delve into a darker power regardless of the consequences, and what happened to them? Scorned by the Blood Elves who used to be pragmatic as well, because they've become very centered around their Sunwell. Blood Elves pretty much are the "Lightforged" of the Horde now. At least, that's where their current narrative seems to be taking them.

[Ithekro]

Even then there are still people would do what High Elves for either lore or simply because they are there (in the Alliance), rather than "just for the model". Its the "its there, why shouldn't I be able to play it?" group.

For all the arguments saying that added HE as playable would "break the game" I don't buy that. The only argument I've seen that makes sense is the personal ones about uniqueness and time invested in their Blood Elf characters and the potential taking away development time for their character model for HE characters. That one I can understand. But that's personal, not game breaking. Political intrigue and potential civil war are always good for a long story. A race divide works for that. Making it more extreme with Void Elves is not needed because the divide already existed. All it creates is the potentially forced Light/Void situation on top of the already existing dispute.

But if the ideas of the faction war having a conclusion before the game ends. That means that Blizzard will either need a new faction divide, or will get rid of factions entirely for main story content (focusing perhaps more of class or race specific story arcs instead). Another possibility is a revamp to the factions, and/or the creation of new factions. The Alliance and the Horde might be too small where the story is heading. We are potentially going to face the Void and the Light based races and their armies. Or becoming part of said factions and having to find the balance between them as we fight. It is entirely possible that all of our races could become one faction, and the new "other" faction is non-Azeroth based races. Armies of the Light or Shadow while the Azeroth Heroes fight for our own goals, these other groups might not like they we are getting up into their business. At which point the faction issues from our current races ends (mostly) as you'll see orcs in Stormwind and Night Elves in Orgrimmar (assuming either city survives), and while certainly won't like each other (faction rep starting at unfriendly...at best), but that can be overcome with work (if you even care). Where the new races and faction is perhaps the rest of the Army of the Light. Yrel and her Naaru crusaders with draenei, orcs, and whatever else (Lightbound Ogres for extra salt), plus there might be a Void faction of Ethereals and Arakkoa, and some of the demons races that broke free of the Legion or some of their species exiles that weren't corrupted by Saragaras. Plus who knows what other random races Blizzard could come up with from other parts of the Great Beyond and the Twisting Nether...places that aren't Azeroth, Draenor, or Argus.

[FlubberPuddy]

True @Ithekro, I think it heavily depends on how many Allied Races in total they wish to release and how "unique" each has to be. People are going to continue asking for High Elves, even though the answer was no for now. So it just remains to be something seen in the future, what happens with races and factions in general.

For instance I wonder if how Calia becomes is some one-off thing or can it happen to others? If so, then that opens up a new avenue of race-making never thought of before. Interesting to see where the game's story goes, especially as you bring up how we're inching towards space travel. Heck even Alex alluded to this in seeing other worlds and "horrors of the Light" etc.

But yeah, I see that eventually the game's universe will become bigger than A vs H as prominent factions. I guess it depends, maybe we can look to comics? Avengers/Justice League? How did they handle their relevancy when compared to bigger and bigger, world-spanning threats? I'm not as well-versed in these worlds to know.

[Zorish]

There are a lot of BE players who only play them for the model as well, so not sure why this is trying to be painted on the "HE community" only (and even then there are many in this community that prefer lore over looks too). It's not unique to any community, all are like this.

The vast majority of players play for the visuals themselves, not as much for the lore. This can often be seen when there are posts that spring up on places like Reddit where SOs introduce the game to their girlfriends/wives etc and they usually are seen playing BE females, even if said player is on Alliance.

The average person does that. It's typical, normal, and natural.

...

it's also normal to not expect being delivered anything you wish. Also normal to have opposition of your wish, if they cross interest with other group. Also normal wanting to be in comfort zone (common fantasy). Also totaly normal if your comfort zone being unique from other. or the same. or similar. You want to be in comfort zone where you can claim yourself as "good guys", and put mark of "bad guys" on horde. I want other. Totaly normal eh? But one also can be delusional and expect being delivered everything he want on whim, while other one being realistic and not expect to get everything he want in every situation. Difference? i am latest, your are first. I don't expect dragonkin being delivered on my finger snap. You (and your "HE" discord especialy) expect they will get what they want in the nearest future.

It's okay. i understand. i was like you. Maybe when i was like 5-7 years old. And got that lesson very early in my life...

[Aldo Hawk]

it's also normal to not expect being delivered anything you wish. Also normal to have opposition of your wish, if they cross interest with other group. Also normal wanting to be in comfort zone (common fantasy). Also totaly normal if your comfort zone being unique from other. or the same. or similar. You want to be in comfort zone where you can claim yourself as "good guys", and put mark of "bad guys" on horde. I want other. Totaly normal eh? But one also can be delusional and expect being delivered everything he want on whim, while other one being realistic and not expect to get everything he want in every situation. Difference? i am latest, your are first. I don't expect dragonkin being delivered on my finger snap. You (and your "HE" discord especialy) expect they will get what they want in the nearest future.

It's okay. i understand. i was like you. Maybe when i was like 5-7 years old. And got that lesson very early in my life...

Yeah you are right we are just a bunch of whiny kids that want to feel safe.

Or not?

Maybe we are not that blinded and just speak things with common sense, maybe we are not that tunneled into wanting something as you are denying it.

Or not?

Before pointing others with your finger and saying such clueless statements, analyze the situation just a bit, you can't be serious saying that a bunch of people are just enraged children wanting something that can't happen.

[Zorish]

Yeah you are right we are just a bunch of whiny kids that want to feel safe.

Or not?

Maybe we are not that blinded and just speak things with common sense, maybe we are not that tunneled into wanting something as you are denying it.

Or not?

Before pointing others with your finger and saying such clueless statements, analyze the situation just a bit, you can't be serious saying that a bunch of people are just enraged children wanting something that can't happen.

oh i am quite aware as i said that i same as you can't have everything on whim. Problem that - if blizzard prove me wrong i'll accept the truth. And accept that if you push enough pressure on game development company you can have everything you want, no matter how silly it sounded (as an example: when enraged fans of pharamercy ship attacked developer for proving them wrong. there i see same behaviour). But for now - well i belive in blizzard (at least wow team) as someone who can keep their word on lore aspect. And you look like bunch of "enraged kids" (remember - i used my example, not mean that you are exactly kids) who not get toy they wanted, while can have many different toys (other races, other games). so... sorry

[Deleted]

{...}

Would You like people to hide heads in the sand, when they see violence?

I would enjoy much more to have some lightheaded conversations in fan-fiction threads, sharing concepts, speculating, and exchanging thoughts on what people find appealing in different fantasy worlds, cause politics already takes much of my everyday life - way to much, for me to be willing search more of it afterhours. However when I see violence - i call it by name. If You see it as "agenda" more than personal attitude - seems irrelevant.

And If You can not see mansplaining even in situation, when bunch of guys surrounds woman and start to yell at her to subordinate, and acknowledge their superiority in an total abstract subject - any further explanations from my won't help. Even if I was willing say anything more on the subject, which I'm not.

sp you don't care about lore wich you want share with both factions = taking from one and give it to other... i see i see... Sad to have people that want "High elves" only because of model, but i guess it's the real face of big part "HE" community.

Except I was one of most vocal here to advocating use of other model.

Well, if You declare to 'care about the lore' then blame Yourself, when next time Blizzard decide to throw it all in the trash, because one picture being more "cool" or another, or because there is to much demands on something, no mater if it makes sense or not. It's just a game. Made just for money.

I prefer to care about more important things - like letting people experience fantasy world in way they like it the most. In many different ways if it is only possible. Or about discussions on its future being at least fair - with no intentional misleading, like forcing interpretations that people want "just a horde race" or "just a horde model" when in fact it could be clear many years ago for those, who wanted to listen, that it is not the case.

To some point I care still for some ingame concepts - like Horde, and Blood Elves. I would not speak here if I was not interested in it. It frustrates me for example, when people equate Blood Elves with High Elves, pushing out of remembrance what made them unique, justifying them forcibly without such need. Just because exactly as You said it - they wanted simplified moral order. Equating Blood Elves with High Elves destroys them, robs from experience they own. It would be much easier for me to feel sympathy for them, if they were not pushed through another series of facelift, and retcons smoothening their past decisions, for being easier to accept.

And so I believe taking over all Thalasian motifs do not serve them at all. Of course - You might see it only as "taking something from Your side". At least as long, as You do not consider people sympathizing with more classical elves deserving any a piece of cake at all. No mater even if You are going to feel sick after eating it all yourself. I see a lot of this attitude here, and it amazes me. Cause for example - it's rather unlikely for one race to get two totally different kinds of tattoos as customization options, and for Blood Elves it could be choice between old ranger aesthetics, and runic tattoos from TBC era - much closer to their core concept, much more consistent with their new ways of development, and unique. Simple example of taking whole cake not serving their development. Those motifs should be rather subject of equal division, letting people follow different outcomes of story. And serving both sides - preserving Blood Elf concept from further erosion, helping to and bringing back Classical Elf as independent thing.

Not even that, but who cares that there isn't a consensus within the community? The WoW community is incredibly large, it's always going to be tough to have a consensus. There's people that want Nathanos style Undead Allied Races and people that wish for San'layn, two conflicting styles of Undead. Does that mean Blizzard is going to go, "shoot there's no real consensus on what kind of Undead Allied Race they want, guess we won't do one/will hold off till there is" that's utterly dumb line of thinking.

Blizzard will add the Allied Races they feel that players will enjoy either based on their own personal decisions or from what they garner from player feedback.

This thread and other High Elf threads like it that showcase ideas for High Elves are merely to provide a springboard of ideas for Blizzard to choose from and run with it. It's not supposed to be a "let's try to find a way to include everyone's interpretation of High Elves in"

For instance, using myself as an example, I want Alliance High Elf Paladins to be available, but if they're ever added and don't have the Paladin class available I'll understand the conceits that were made (too much of a Blood Elf thing in WoW etc etc). I already know there is that possibility, but until they come out with info putting a hard "no" on it then people will always continue to ask.

Hell people still ask for Undead Paladins even though Blizzard explained it the same way Void Elves can't be Paladins.

If those who want them still wish to make the requests, they should do so. The only reason people to shut down or stamp out the requests is to make themselves feel better about "yes no more talk of High Elves meaning the want for them has died down."

Doesn't matter if I ever stop playing WoW or not, I'll continue hoping for Alliance High Elves to be added. Heck I always wanted Demon Hunters to be added, and ended up quitting the game around Firelands, Cata, far long before Demon Hunters actually became a thing.

Not to say people quit over Demon Hunters and that's why Blizzard released em, but I have seen a few others say similar things about High Elves, "Blizzard will save them as a last resort when it's needed for WoW, just like DHs"

I could also say, that Bolvar and Calia are already leading way for answer to that requests on paladins

As for me - I might consider some possible ways of implementation High Elves as less interesting and creative solutions, for example proposals based mostly on Silver Covenant, or "Dalaran race", however if they were chosen by Blizzard, as way of addressing to existing demands, it would consider rather hard to give any protest. More of that - even if Blizzard decided to use that pale skin from Void Elves as appearance of Stormforged Elves driven straight from the High Elf story - it would be rather hard to justify disappointment, cause those are still solutions that answer for the request of classical elf, and thus they in fact fit to a compromise field.

So I also would not call lack of strict consensus here and extend of ideas a huge problem. Problem is, that as for now, Blizzard decided to not address to demands of classic elves at all, and create opposite of what people wanted - Anti-High Elves.

And got that lesson very early in my life...

It's good, that You achieved first step of maturity - not everything is as it seem, beauty does not equal good, and innocence is taken from some people earlier than from other. Now time for second step - learning how to not despise those who do not know yet, what you already know.

Also - when we speak of maturity, it has more aspects, than just dealing with refuse. Sometimes it's willing to listen for peoples needs between lines of their demands, and searching ways to accord them with no bad will. And sometimes not taking every decision made over our heads as a good coin, and staying with separate vote.

Well, at least someone can still sometimes see a child in me. I have been dreaming about being young again, since many years already.

[Aldo Hawk]

oh i am quite aware as i said that i same as you can't have everything on whim. Problem that - if blizzard prove me wrong i'll accept the truth. And accept that if you push enough pressure on game development company you can have everything you want, no matter how silly it sounded(as an example: when enraged fans of pharamercy ship attacked developer for proving them wrong. there i see same behaviour). But for now - well i belive in blizzard (at least wow team) as someone who can keep their word on lore aspect. And you look like bunch of "enraged kids" (remember - i used my example, not mean that you are exactly kids) who not get toy they wanted, while can have many different toys (other races, other games). so... sorry

The only thing you proove is your ignorance on the HE matter, it's just my observation, someone who bring those kind of points is unaware of the situation.

I care more about people being aware than being against alliance HE in this thread, just rethink it a bit, you have tons of people giving examples on why you are wrong with factual proof found in-game.

[Nuggsy]

Would You like people to hide heads in the sand, when they see violence?

I would enjoy much more to have some lightheaded conversations in fan-fiction threads, sharing concepts, speculating, and exchanging thoughts on what people find appealing in different fantasy worlds, cause politics already takes much of my everyday life - way to much, for me to be willing search more of it afterhours. However when I see violence - i call it by name. If You see it as "agenda" more than personal attitude - seems irrelevant.

And If You can not see mansplaining even in situation, when bunch of guys surrounds woman and start to yell at her to subordinate, and acknowledge their superiority in an total abstract subject - any further explanations from my won't help. Even if I was willing say anything more on the subject, which I'm not.

I think it's great to stand up and help people who are in need but just because a guy is being a jerk to a girl doesn't mean he's 'mainsplaning' it just means he's being a jerk. There is no need to tie in a sexist term to describe it when it's simply just being rude, regardless of the genders involved.

[Deleted]

And I see no value in pretending that it wold be as likely to encounter exact behavior in case of a man. It wouldn't. Statistical importance of revealing gender as singular factor influencing on obtained ratings of work or statements is scientifically proven. And if there is even tinny chance, that someone here will in future take step back, and think if he is not by chance taking part in something, that looks rather bad - its worth going ahead of the row.

And as much, as I'm not willing to go full political - do not expect me to cooperate in maintaining names of specific forms of violence as taboo.

[Ithekro]

An analogy for what High Elf fans want would be in terms of customer-company relations:

A nation wide company sells a product to half the nation on one form. Advertises that form in the other half of the country with a slightly different label, but doesn't actually sell it in that part of the county. Consumers in that part of the country ask if they can have the product, and the company says no. If you want that product you need to move to the other side of the country. When asked why, they say its a regional thing only. "Even with the different labeling you advertise it under?" The company says that is basically the same thing, but you have to move to get it.

Years later people are still asking for that product to be sold in their half of the country. The new marketing campaign says they'll sell something like it soon. The people are excited by this prospect. When the product arrives, it is the same general look of the product. The labeling is blue and tastes entirely different. "This isn't want we were asking for." Its basically the same thing, but doesn't taste at all like the product sold in the other half of the country, and its also blue, yet the rest of the packaging and look of the item is the same. When asked again why they can't just have the product, they are told its region only and told to move to the other side of the country or just live with the blue product that tastes nothing like the product is suppose to taste.

Customer relations. Now, is this a company failure to understand the consumer? Is this a consumer failure to understand some vague regional reasoning for them not to be able to have said product? There isn't a law in place making it illegal or anything. Its just that the other region thinks it a staple of their region and they don't want to dilute "their" product by letting the other region have it.

That's my take of this issue.

[Friendlyimmolation]

An analogy for what High Elf fans want would be in terms of customer-company relations:

A nation wide company sells a product to half the nation on one form. Advertises that form in the other half of the country with a slightly different label, but doesn't actually sell it in that part of the county. Consumers in that part of the country ask if they can have the product, and the company says no. If you want that product you need to move to the other side of the country. When asked why, they say its a regional thing only. "Even with the different labeling you advertise it under?" The company says that is basically the same thing, but you have to move to get it.

Years later people are still asking for that product to be sold in their half of the country. The new marketing campaign says they'll sell something like it soon. The people are excited by this prospect. When the product arrives, it is the same general look of the product. The labeling is blue and tastes entirely different. "This isn't want we were asking for." Its basically the same thing, but doesn't taste at all like the product sold in the other half of the country, and its also blue, yet the rest of the packaging and look of the item is the same. When asked again why they can't just have the product, they are told its region only and told to move to the other side of the country or just live with the blue product that tastes nothing like the product is suppose to taste.

Customer relations. Now, is this a company failure to understand the consumer? Is this a consumer failure to understand some vague regional reasoning for them not to be able to have said product? There isn't a law in place making it illegal or anything. Its just that the other region thinks it a staple of their region and they don't want to dilute "their" product by letting the other region have it.

That's my take of this issue.

It still comes off as way too entitled.

You don't have to move across the country to role Horde, nor is is reasonable to ask the Game's design to bend to your whims because you don't like how they design things.

Blizzard does not owe people high elves.

[Ithekro]

Does it? Blizzard advertises High Elves in the Alliance since Vanilla. Why is it entitlement to want to play what is advertised, yet for arguably vague reasons, aren't playable within the faction they are advertised in?

[Friendlyimmolation]

Does it? Blizzard advertises High Elves in the Alliance since Vanilla. Why is it entitlement to want to play what is advertised, yet for arguably vague reasons, aren't playable within the faction they are advertised in?

They have never advertised high elves to the Alliance, Alliance may have took it as advertising, but Even in Vanilla Blizzard decided not to add High elves to the Alliance.

The reasons aren't vague unless you try to muddy them up in a vain effort to reinforce your point.

Edit: Before Pandaren are inevitably brought up again, They were designed from the start to be able to be on either side, and Blizzard still didn't like how they turned out, they want their factions to look different.

When that point inevitably goes to "but Void elves are just H/Belves painted blue, it makes them different enough for Blizzard.

And when that once again falls back into "They can change the model." At that point don't ask for High elves, because they are the exact same species as blood elf, they are the exact same thing.

With the current design of WoW High elves aren't happening. Pray for an end to factions and then you'll get them in the form of Blood elves, but it's doubtful that will happen.

And then someone brings up Pandaren again and the cycle continues.

[Ithekro]

And yet they display more High Elves in the Alliance over time. How is that not advertising? Even with the sadistic twist of adding the "but you can't play that unless you play Horde" added to the advertising of all the High Elves in the Alliance. High Elves that have been there the entire game. High Elves that are specifically not Blood Elves. Sometimes painfully to the point of it being pointed out specifically by the characters themselves.