Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Gurluas]

Man... Have You ever heard about thinking by yourself? Questioning authorities? Critical listening?

He don't look like he feels elven themes well, he don't sound like he feels elven themes well. He looks and sounds like person, who is tired of being asked again and again about something, that is not his primary sphere interest, and so he probably is. Because the game is not just about the elves. There could be thousands of people on the world with better sense of elves, and It's fine, cause not everyone have to get scientific degree in practical elfology. So why I should not believe him, that they have no good ideas what to do with them?

Sad thing - he is in charge, and that do not it does not bode well to all in game elves.


If I was man, who can do everything with in game world, then having good ideas about what to do with some things, would be definitely more important for me, that their current state, which do not limits me in any way. Sure they were. We can even guess role of the Rule of Cool, and distorted feedback in this process, that made us end with Void Elves. We might even assume, that they wanted well. However, well... I still get sad, when looking at Void Elf. Assuming such causes is in fact just more reasonable, than listening to some explanations based on in game obstacles, that were in many cases already proved invalid. I don't but this answers.


Is what You feel, when it occurs, that You are last Ion's herald, and no one more is willing to deal with classical elf demands, neither even believing, they can be stopped without any the proper answer? Cause I feel maybe little annoyed, that good ideas are still waisted, but rather still in good cheer, when I see, that in most cases people who are willing to listen, rather get what it is all about with time.

Work on entertainment industry and pop culture is rather always superficial, trivial, blindly following the dominant ideological cliches, washed out of respect for own subject, and for own recipients, completely incompatible with subtlety and deep thought. Conducted without a good plan, in a permanent hurry and with any concerns only about fastest possible money. So there is no reason to care about it to much, and no reason to get 'desperate' about anything.

There are however reasons to stay calmly on your position, and precisely define what You want. And so - there are some reason to stay here and remind, that good ideas of independent High Elf development, consistent with classical elven themes and players demands actually exist, and do not require neither shocking changes of the story, nor especially hard creative work.


Well, crystalline elves are not my favorite idea, neither is appearance of Crystal Dryads, nor having Ice Palaces... It's kind of too much fairytale. I was thinking about something more organic.

Also - snow elves do not seem imho to fit well to hiding underground, rather somewhere in mountains. Maybe in Storm Peaks? It looks like a place, where few things could be still rediscovered. However finding Snow Elves now, when we know Frostborn Dwarves for so long time already, would feel forced to me.

But that's just my opinion.

Well Frostborn are more ice rather than crystal. And yeah perhaps not underground, I just thought they'd hide like the Skyrim Snow elves, I.E go underground into a hidden cut off valley in the most cold areas of Northrend.

It's not High elves, but it's certainly better than Void elves to me, and a crystalline race has a lot of potential to be used in creative ways depending on their abilities.

[matrix123mko]

This topic is going nowhere, but there is still something we can discuss. So Void elves didn't satisfy those wanting classical Elves, and High elves are off the table for now...Yesterday I made a post which was ignored since it was a page-ender.

How about something like this as a new elf race instead?
The main issue with Void elves is that it REALLY limits what kind of character you can be.
You HAVE to use dark magic, you HAVE to have been a Blood elf who decided to fuck with the Void alongside Umbridge, you HAVE to be an emo.
It's very limiting compared to all other races except perhaps Lightforged.

Void elves are scholars who research dark powers. Do you have a proof that they are emo? Or maybe it's your headcannon?

[Deleted]

Well Frostborn are more ice rather than crystal. And yeah perhaps not underground, I just thought they'd hide like the Skyrim Snow elves, I.E go underground into a hidden cut off valley in the most cold areas of Northrend.

It's not High elves, but it's certainly better than Void elves to me, and a crystalline race has a lot of potential to be used in creative ways depending on their abilities.

If I remember lore well, then Frostborn are organic - do they bleed, and that differs them from Earthen.
And If I remember Skyrim story well, living underground did not end well for that Snow Elves, as they mostly devolved

Sure, I understand what You mean, although myself I would feel strange if they came in crystalline form.

Void elves are scholars who research dark powers. Do you have a proof that they are emo? Or maybe it's your headcannon?

There is no proof, but there is a suspicion - that their name comes from Kylo Ren in Star Wars

[Magnagarde]

Frig'dorei... please don't give them ideas.

[Gurluas]

If I remember lore well, then Frostborn are organic - do they bleed, and that differs them from Earthen.
And If I remember Skyrim story well, living underground did not end well for that Snow Elves, as they mostly devolved

Sure, I understand what You mean, although myself I would feel strange if they came in crystalline form.


There is no proof, but there is a suspicion - that their name comes from Kylo Ren in Star Wars

Well I meant the Snow elves who didn't devolve, they hid underground and then moved to the Hidden Valley, the ones who devolved were the ones who got forced to eat poison by the Dwemer.


And look at their quotes and their emotes and such, they have a really big Emo vibe going on.

[FlubberPuddy]

I rather believe that he personally has no clear idea, who or what High Elves could be, but this is just a prof, that he was not paying any attention of what players actually wanted. Because there are ideas for the development of High Elves all around there, in fact in huge numbers.

How I take this quote is that the surviving High Elves are too diverse to say that one group represents what High Elves are and none of the groups are large enough to say that is what High Elves are.

@JdRobespierre I think it's like how @Darththeo mentions it, surviving High Elves being too diverse for any group to represent em. This follows with Ion's previous statement that they've assimilated into other cultures.

I say, that this pushes High Elves into further likeness with the Mag'har Orcs. Those are Orcs that have no specific cultural variation from the existing green Orcs, heck from a recent interview Blizzard even said the point of making Mag'har into Orc Clans is because with armor on they would look too similar to current existing Orcs. Thus came born the idea that they'll vary up the skins with different colors and tattoo textures.

High Elves could then follow suit and become an amalgamation of various High Elf groups brought together. That's been touted already as one of their potential recruitment scenarios. Gather all the diaspora High Elves and bring them collectively together under one banner (just like Mag'har Orcs have done). "Stand as One!" as Anduin says (see this stuff just writes itself).

Also, I don't see why it really matters in the first place that the Alliance High Elves have become dispersed so much that none of the groups are large enough to say what High Elves are. Sounds like Humans to me! And what happened when Blizzard added Stormwind Humans? Those were the generic humans. What happened when Gilneans released? They made em British and Werewolf-y. What happened when Kul'Tiras was released? They made them burly sea-monster hunters.

Each different form of Humans were created to be diverse because Blizzard willed it so. That's really the bottom line here. They can, if they wish to, make High Elves more diverse from Blood Elves. They have enough material to work with as evidenced by the ideas in this thread and elsewhere.

They just do not currently want to. Yet they keep the High Elves around so there is some plan for High Elves they wish to have under wraps for the time being. Especially since they've used High Elves in pretty much every expansion since (aside WoD) release. Wonder if they'll do anything in BfA or next expansion over - that will have Blizzard make them "visually distinct" as they desire for an Allied Race to become playable.

But these reasonings ultimately boil down to one thing: They place importance of Allied Races on being visually distinct.

Thus why no go currently on High Elves, Wildhammer Dwarves, Forest Trolls, Gilgoblins, etc.

Especially not during a "faction expansion" where they want you to be prideful of your selected faction (even though they're also pushing towards playing the other faction )

[matrix123mko]

There is no proof, but there is a suspicion - that their name comes from Kylo Ren in Star Wars

That's why SIN'dorei summon demons. FAL'dorei are fallen nightborne.

[Enkrypt]

It's a variant of the Kubler-Ross model of grieving. Normally there are five stages. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. This is different.

With the pro High Elf community we start with Bargaining, all the artwork you see in this thread and elsewhere detailing how High Elves COULD be if Blizzard would only look. The pleading, the wheedling, the petitions, all of it is bargaining.

Then we get a developer comment, sometimes offhand, sometimes direct, emphasizing that High Elves aren't going to happen. We then move on to stage 2, Anger, where pro High Elf commentators get very upset that their bargaining didn't work. After a time the anger abates and we reach stage 3 denial.

Denial that the developer actually said no. Denial that the developer knew what he was talking about. Denial that the rationales continually presented as to why playable Alliance High Elves aren't going to be a thing matter. Denial that the comment still holds because it was said AGES ago and they may have changed their minds since. Denial that it was actually a 'no'. After a time they go back to bargaining and the cycle repeats.

Oh, my friend, I enjoyed this bit. I think I came close to laughing out loud.

[Aldo Hawk]

@Obelisk Kai I'm not gonna quote your verbiage because it's gonna make someone vomit with your ad nauseum.

Can you explain what 'having an agenda' even means? You seem like a PC in tantrum using buzzwords.

And can you please be honest in this discussion? You are doing mental gymnastics every friggin time and is looking very pity.

[matrix123mko]

Well I meant the Snow elves who didn't devolve, they hid underground and then moved to the Hidden Valley, the ones who devolved were the ones who got forced to eat poison by the Dwemer.


And look at their quotes and their emotes and such, they have a really big Emo vibe.

"No, we do not drink blood--that's the San'layn. Totally different emo elf." - that's just a joke.

[Obelisk Kai]

@Obelisk Kai I'm not gonna quote your verbiage because it's gonna make someone vomit with your ad nauseum.

Can you explain what 'having an agenda' even means? You seem like a PC in tantrum using buzzwords.

And can you please be honest in this discussion? You are doing mental gymnastics every friggin time and is looking very pity.

It means that your agenda is playable High Elves, that you view future development through that prism and that you are predisposed to minimise or ignore everything that gets in the way of that. You are innately, hopelessly biased.

I too have an agenda, no playable Alliance High Elves. The difference here is I acknowledge my bias, and my agenda is the one the developers have adopted on this matter.

As for being honest, I have been entirely honest.

As have the developers I am quoting. You have a problem with what they are saying I invite you to take it up with them and attempt to prove to them why they are wrong. Until such time as you succeed, something they have stated repeatedly over the course of a decade and a half outweighs your assertions to the contrary.

[Enkrypt]

@Obelisk Kai I'm not gonna quote your verbiage because it's gonna make someone vomit with your ad nauseum.

Can you explain what 'having an agenda' even means? You seem like a PC in tantrum using buzzwords.

And can you please be honest in this discussion? You are doing mental gymnastics every friggin time and is looking very pity.

I'm pretty sure this whole topic is ad nauseam.

"Having an agenda" in this context refers to you having motive for your asinine behavior. That motive is your, *cough*, ad nauseam "discussion" for High Elves. I can assure you, between you and Obelisk, you are definitely +2 in the tantrum throwing department.

Obelisk has been very honest and calm. Show us where he lied. Also, what are his "mental gymnastics"? Lol, I'm starting to think you just repeat what other posters say to fit in.

[Aldo Hawk]

It means that your agenda is playable High Elves, that you view future development through that prism and that you are predisposed to minimise or ignore everything that gets in the way of that. You are innately, hopelessly biased.

I too have an agenda, no playable Alliance High Elves. The difference here is I acknowledge my bias, and my agenda is the one the developers have adopted on this matter.

As for being honest, I have been entirely honest.

As have the developers I am quoting. You have a problem with what they are saying I invite you to take it up with them and attempt to prove to them why they are wrong. Until such time as you succeed, something they have stated repeatedly over the course of a decade and a half outweighs your assertions to the contrary.

Ignore or minimise everything that get in way to playable HE? Poor guy, i would not be here discussing this if allied races would not be a thing, or if there's something that makes HE impossible to be playable, just look on how i'm not twisting things to a point where it fits my position, that also includes not being biased.

And no, you had not been honest, please do a little bit of introspective thinking, your whole participation here has been deny for the sake of deny, you are in denial while some people here acknowledges the issues of the matter and find solutions that doesn't twist what we have, while you come here to... deny more? and when you have been pointed a hundred times you simply started to not make sense, i remember you were not a Blizzard's word cultist like 20 pages ago, now? you doubled on fallacies and dishonesty.

I'm not going to give you a proper answer for the 'talk to the developers' bullshit, you can't even be serious. But i'm gonna repeat you by the fifteenth time that doesn't matter all those years of not having a possibility for HE, allied races got added now, not 10 years ago, deal with it.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm pretty sure this whole topic is ad nauseam.

"Having an agenda" in this context refers to you having motive for your asinine behavior. That motive is your, *cough*, ad nauseam "discussion" for High Elves. I can assure you, between you and Obelisk, you are definitely +2 in the tantrum throwing department.

Obelisk has been very honest and calm. Show us where he lied. Also, what are his "mental gymnastics"? Lol, I'm starting to think you just repeat what other posters say to fit in.

I pointed a hundred times where he lied. The population issue, the years of not having allied races, the criteria for allied races, the faction wall destruction, the whole 'a dev can't be wrong ever', and much more bullshit he was throwing here in the course of the thread, i'm not in the mood now to search for it, but it's there.

Ohh, and i'm not going to forget his denying of B4A being a 'last hurrah' for the faction war, it came from a mouth of a developer in an interview, they were not completely right with everything they said?

And you are doing another fallacy (faulty comparison), doesn't matter how long is this thread, Obelisk comes here and throws bunchs and bunchs and bunchs of walls of text, do you think that encourages people to discuss? it just makes the discussion blurs in a rain of words, and ohh, that's called an ad nauseum.

And no my little dear, i'm not repeating what others say, sadly for you (and unlike you i imagine) i think by myself.

[FlubberPuddy]

That's why SIN'dorei summon demons. FAL'dorei are fallen nightborne.

I say, following from my previous post above, make the Quel'dorei the Elf equivalent of Stormwind Humans.

Both are generic and add nothing new to the table, they are just a fantasy staple? Well perfect! That's their niche

Alliance High Elves can be the equivalent of Stomwind Humans for Thalassian Elves.

These QUEL'dorei can quell the High Elf fan request.

[Gurluas]

"No, we do not drink blood--that's the San'layn. Totally different emo elf." - that's just a joke.

Their hairstyles, their quotes, their mannerisms, it's all based on goth/emo culture.
They generally have this dark and...voidy look, which is optional in other races.

As a Belf you can go black haired and make a Shadow priest with full evil gear, not so much when it comes to Velves, you're locked into it.
Snow elves would have far more variety while being different enough.

[matrix123mko]

Their hairstyles, their quotes, their mannerisms, it's all based on goth/emo culture.
They generally have this dark and...voidy look, which is optional in other races.

As a Belf you can go black haired and make a Shadow priest with full evil gear, not so much when it comes to Velves, you're locked into it.
Snow elves would have far more variety while being different enough.

I would like them to go on full dark elf theme with many classes: assasins, dark knights, etc.

[Gurluas]

I would like them to go on full dark elf theme with many classes: assasins, dark knights, etc.

Even typical Dark elves aren't locked into a role like Void elves are.
Take Everquest 2, you can have Dark elves becoming good and being Paladins and whatnot.

Void elves however, are forced to have taken a path leading them to the Void and to have to fight the whispers and all that entails. It's my biggest issue, it's really limiting for a race to have all of them virtually come from the same place and be warped by the same power.

Even Lightforged aren't that limited as they can have several origin stories.

[Obelisk Kai]

Ignore or minimise everything that get in way to playable HE? Poor guy, i would not be here discussing this if allied races would not be a thing, or if there's something that makes HE impossible to be playable, just look on how i'm not twisting things to a point where it fits my position, that also includes not being biased.

And no, you had not been honest, please do a little bit of introspective thinking, your whole participation here has been deny for the sake of deny, you are in denial while some people here acknowledges the issues of the matter and find solutions that doesn't twist what we have, while you come here to... deny more? and when you have been pointed a hundred times you simply started to not make sense, i remember you were not a Blizzard's word cultist like 20 pages ago, now? you doubled on fallacies and dishonesty.

I'm not going to give you a proper answer for the 'talk to the developers' bullshit, you can't even be serious. But i'm gonna repeat you by the fifteenth time that doesn't matter all those years of not having a possibility for HE, allied races got added now, not 10 years ago, deal with it.

'Deal with it' is a phrase used when someone unwilling to face a truth or reality persists in ignoring that truth and reality and instead must be compelled to face the facts. It is much more apt to be applied to yourself, someone whose entire argument is predicated on ignoring what he has been told, than myself who is quite happy with things the way they currently are.

Your final stance is that 'allied races' make High Elves possible.

That High Elves are the one group ruled out specifically by the developers, that they have done so on two occasions since Void Elves were introduced, that Void Elves were clearly added to give the Alliance thalassian elves in such a way so as not to give them High Elves...all these show that your stance is nonsensical. Because High Elves were considered as an allied race, rejected and a new variant created to take their place. The variant's existence is enough by itself to prevent playable Alliance High Elves.

There are no solutions to the issues presented, that is the truth. I have said it before, I will say it again. This is an attempt to reinvent the wheel and that is not good enough, not even close. As Blood Elves are High Elves, High Elves are already playable. There is no way of meaningfully differentiating them from Blood Elves that would satisfy you.

Void Elves are High Elves that have been meaningfully differentiated from High Elves to be made playable, but apparently they are not good enough. That is your problem and a reality that you must 'deal with'.

[Aldo Hawk]

'Deal with it' is a phrase used when someone unwilling to face a truth or reality persists in ignoring that truth and reality and instead must be compelled to face the facts. It is much more apt to be applied to yourself, someone whose entire argument is predicated on ignoring what he has been told, than myself who is quite happy with things the way they currently are.

Your final stance is that 'allied races' make High Elves possible.

That High Elves are the one group ruled out specifically by the developers, that they have done so on two occasions since Void Elves were introduced, that Void Elves were clearly added to give the Alliance thalassian elves in such a way so as not to give them High Elves...all these show that your stance is nonsensical. Because High Elves were considered as an allied race, rejected and a new variant created to take their place. The variant's existence is enough by itself to prevent playable Alliance High Elves.

There are no solutions to the issues presented, that is the truth. I have said it before, I will say it again. This is an attempt to reinvent the wheel and that is not good enough, not even close. As Blood Elves are High Elves, High Elves are already playable. There is no way of meaningfully differentiating them from Blood Elves that would satisfy you.

Void Elves are High Elves that have been meaningfully differentiated from High Elves to be made playable, but apparently they are not good enough. That is your problem and a reality that you must 'deal with'.

But you have to deal with it, stop using points that got already debunked, it's nonsensical that you repeat a hundred times things that does not provide any point at all.

HE are still possible, you like it or not, but please don't try to do as you have the only truth based on your desires, there's nothing pointing to HE being added or denied forever.

Simply, deal, with, it.

[FlubberPuddy]

But you have to deal with it, stop using points that got already debunked, it's nonsensical that you repeat a hundred times things that does not provide any point at all.

HE are still possible, you like it or not, but please don't try to do as you have the only truth based on your desires, there's nothing pointing to HE being added or denied forever.

Simply, deal, with, it.

The fact that people like Obelisk have to come in and continually "remind people it won't happen" means they aren't confident enough by Ion's own response. Otherwise they wouldn't be trying so hard to stamp out people's request/hope. <-- and that is exactly the purpose of posts like Obelisk's and a few others.