Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Xath]

Wow, this thread is still going? Hey Blizzard reps, it's me, the guy that fought for taller Zandalari and thanks for listening to us about that. Can you do me another favor, I was wondering if you could add blue glowing eyes to the Blood Elves like you did the golden ones. I think it would help you get the point to these people, and it is a simple addition, just an emission color change on a model. 320 pages so far, I don't get it.

Let me fix that for you

"Hey blizzard reps thanks for listening to me about taller Zandalari now you mind pissing off 45% of your customer base to stomp on the alliance again and say go horde? I know a lot of alliance players are quitting but not all of them have yet let's fix that"

[Deno]

Let me fix that for you

"Hey blizzard reps thanks for listening to me about taller Zandalari now you mind pissing off 45% of your customer base to stomp on the alliance again and say go horde? I know a lot of alliance players are quitting but not all of them have yet let's fix that"

Assumption in your argument: All of the alliance player base is pissed off because high elves aren't added. Common sense simply says that's BS.

[Gurluas]

There is one candidate to become Snow elves in wow, the Shandaral elves. Currently to our knowledge they all died, but what if some survived underground or in hiding?
They'd be crystallized elves, immune to the cold.

They'd be visually similar to the Crystal Dryads.


Essentially, they'd Highborne who were crystallized by the Arcane explosion but somehow survived and retained their sanity.
They'd have no problem with the Cold due to being made of crystal, since the explosion they relocated to the most remote corners of Northrend, building beautiful crystalline structures in the icy wastes.



Had we gotten this instead of Void elves I'd have been friggin happy, I love Snow elves, and they wouldn't be locked into using the Void or being emos.

[Obelisk Kai]

And what made them to stop adding VE and Lightforged Draenei?

And Mulgore Tauren, Darkspear Trolls, Gnomes, Steamwheedle Goblins, Exodar Draenei...

Is not about authority of Blizzard (shielding behind that is pity to be honest), is about looking at what exists and compare, you can't simply say the number of population of a race is a problem, and then avoid the fact that HE may be 10 or 20 times more numerous than VE.

The population issue, is not an issue anymore, at least for allied races.

Your retreat to the retort about using an authority on this matter, i.e. the author, only serves to illustrate the poverty of your own position. I make no apologies for using the sources that support my positions, nor am I going to tie my hands in this debate because the pro High Elf community has literally nothing equivalent in retort.

On every occasion Blizzard has spoken about High Elves in detail in the past decade and a half, they have pointed out their rarity and their near extinction. Two of those occasions were even post the addition of Void Elves and Lightforged Draenei.

Either you are right from your flawed observations in game and your attempt to make them square with your own pre-conceived biases, or Blizzard is correct and the reason they keep bringing up the population issue in regards to High Elves alone is that they mean what they say and there really are too few High Elves to bother about.

If and when Blizzard changes their mind on this issue, we will all know and you will be free to use that as much as you wish. However to unilaterally declare 'The population issue, is not an issue anymore, at least for allied races.' when the population issue was cited twice in the Allied Race era as one of the reasons for NOT granting playable High Elves is hubris.

You don't have the authority to make a declaration like that yet.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok great tauren and trolls got few little stories, doesn't change the fact that high elves have gotten more attention. Also again, allied races, DI dwarves are "story props" in that case.

High Elves have never gotten attention. The point is High Elves have never participated in or fronted a story that was primarily about High Elves. They have always been props to someone else's story.

And as for the Dark Iron being story props, they have several zones in classic content dedicated to them. They had the scenario in Mists of Pandaria where they attempted to prove their worth to the Alliance. Their return to Ironforge under Moira constitutes a Dark Iron storyline. None of that holds true for Alliance High Elves.

Yet this is all speculation, even if half the blood elves were to race change to high elves (which is EXTREMELY doubtful) the horde will still maintain a strong population. Blood elves are high elves, correct. High elves are also part of the alliance though, and screaming blood elf=high elf will never change that fact.

The damage is not just about the development of a potential imbalance in Horde/Alliance populations. The more profound issue is the replication of the theme of a core Horde race to the Alliance. This violates the integrity of the Horde in a game where the factions derive their distinctiveness from the races that comprise those factions. It means that a Horde race, and THE most popular Horde race, becomes de facto neutral. This is unfair to the Horde faction. It is also unfair to the Blood Elves to have a bunch of Alliance players saying that they are the 'true' High Elves and that the Blood Elves are the imposters. Say what you want about Void Elves, but nobody is ever going to call them the real High Elves.

Books too, lore. High elves are almost always around in every expansion since TBC. They're interacted with or spoken about in any current timeline book.

I gave a thorough examination of your claims and debunked them. I awaited a retort to show where I was wrong. You have instead restated your incorrect reading of the game world.

High Elves are NOT present in books that place since the TBC era with the exception of Veressa in Night of the Dragon, the sole High Elf to have any kind of role in a book (and in game for that matter). You have said High Elves have played a role in every current timeline book. Can you provide examples? Links? Page numbers for references?

As for their role in every expansion since TBC, this has been thoroughly debunked. The only time period when they may have played a meaningful role was in 5.1 and 5.2 with the purge and the Isle of Thunder, and both times were to further Jaina's story and not their own.

Great we can agree to disagree then, since this is your opinion and apparently you disregard the books. I don't however.

To restate what was said above, I have no tolerance for claims that are made without support. You made a claim, I said you were wrong and I ask you again to provide proof of your blanket statement that High Elves are in every book set in the time period since the TBC era.

It is also immensely arrogant to claim I am the one disregarding the books when you have offered no evidence to support your assertion. I own most of the Warcraft novels. I'll be able to confirm any evidence you have VERY rapidly should you supply it

Yup I do support high elves being playable, also I am not wrong about their presence...you'd have to block your eyes/ears and shout while playing this game to ignore their presence.

You are completely wrong about their presence. I am open to being proven wrong, but everything I have seen or read over the years backs up Blizzard's stance that they are a rare, almost extinct group.

So yeah, again you've proven nothing, I can see you're very passionate about your opinion on how things should be but your long paragraphs are really just your opinionated babbling as to why you don't want a certain feature...that wouldn't affect you...because you wouldn't play them anyways...
Previous presence allied races: DI dwarves, Zandalari, Magh'ar, Kul'tirans. (I'm assuming you're not including Legion)

You offer no proof. You offer no evidence. You are inventing something and insisting we agree with it based only on your word without any back up.

Me? I have back up.

From the Warcraft Encyclopedia


'In consequence, there are so few high elves left on Azeroth today that they cannot be considered a race in anything other than the biological sense.'


The Pro High Elf community hasn't a scintilla of evidence supporting it's position. You are welcome to attempt to actually prove me wrong rather than just asserting it.

As for not wanting to play a High Elf, that is a lie, I am playing one right now as my main.

They're purple/blue elves, just like night elves.

The equivalent alliance race to the nightborne would have been white skinned blood elves...with blue eyes (void elves have blue eyes), but that would apparently "destroy the faction walls and cause dire consequences"?

Void elves didn't only get "some" physical differences, they're completely different, pulled out of nowhere whereas nightborne are night elves with tattoos and a shitty selection of hair options.

Nightborne use significantly different skin tones to Night Elves.

Nightborne have noticeably thinner models to Night Elves.

Nightborne are thematically as far from the druidic, arboreal Night Elves as it is possible to get.

Void Elves use different skin tones to Blood/High Elves.

Many Void Elves possess body tentacles, which Blood/High Elves do not.

Void Elves are thematically different from the cultured, light orientated Blood/High Elves.

Both races are based on a parent present within the other faction. Both are substantially different from that parent, particularly thematically.

To deny that Nightborne are significantly different from Night Elves is an argument that can only be made when someone has an agenda, that agenda being upset at not getting Alliance High Elves.

Regarding your post about population, darkspear trolls, draenei, gnomes, void elves, LF draenei, worgen, forsaken and goblins would like a word with you. There's also something called reproduction.




Even the devs debunked that whole population argument themselves.

Firstly, and this is proving to be a pattern, provide a link or source to the devs 'debunking the population argument'. Because I can link a video from just over a month ago with the Game Director bringing the population issue up.

Secondly, all those races you listed truly are low on population. And they are on the same level as the Blood Elves.

I find this the easiest argument to debunk on the matter of population, this false equivalence with the other endangered races. It presumes High Elves are equal to those groups, when it is Blood Elves (who are also endangered) that are the equivalent. And Alliance High Elves are but a fraction of the total thalassian elf population. And if all the races you've listed have many times the population of Alliance High Elves and THEY are endangered, that means the Alliance High Elves are past the point of recovery.

As for reproduction, if you've a fantasy of Alliance High Elves having High Elf babies to create a loyal population of blue eyed, white skinned thalassian elves, you can forget it. Firstly, there are too few Alliance High Elves to form the base of a sustainable population.

Secondly, the Alliance High Elves don't appear to be interested. Remember when Elisande mentioned them in the cinematic and a lot of pro High Elf supporters got supported because her acknowledgement meant 'hooray, they haven't forgotten High Elves?'.

They focused on the acknowledgement rather than what she was actually saying, that the Alliance High Elves are degrading themselves by mingling their blood with lesser races.

Which can only mean a large number of the few remaining Alliance High Elves, including their leader Veressa, are having Half Elf children.

Or if all the high elves became void elves. It would make people sad but at least the alliance high elves would have a real conclusion other than "BLOOD ELFS R HIGH ELFS PLAY HORDE OR GTFO LUL".........or if they all died. I don't like making speculations though.

While the end of the Alliance High Elves would gladden my heart, I don't see why Blizzard should eliminate a story tool just because you can't have them as a playable race. That's entitlement gone too far.

[Aldo Hawk]

Your retreat to the retort about using an authority on this matter, i.e. the author, only serves to illustrate the poverty of your own position. I make no apologies for using the sources that support my positions, nor am I going to tie my hands in this debate because the pro High Elf community has literally nothing equivalent in retort.

On every occasion Blizzard has spoken about High Elves in detail in the past decade and a half, they have pointed out their rarity and their near extinction. Two of those occasions were even post the addition of Void Elves and Lightforged Draenei.

Either you are right from your flawed observations in game and your attempt to make them square with your own pre-conceived biases, or Blizzard is correct and the reason they keep bringing up the population issue in regards to High Elves alone is that they mean what they say and there really are too few High Elves to bother about.

If and when Blizzard changes their mind on this issue, we will all know and you will be free to use that as much as you wish. However to unilaterally declare 'The population issue, is not an issue anymore, at least for allied races.' when the population issue was cited twice in the Allied Race era as one of the reasons for NOT granting playable High Elves is hubris.

You don't have the authority to make a declaration like that yet.

Sorry if i have to repeat myself, but i don't know how to say it anymore.

The population issue is not an issue anymore, stick that to your head, it can be seen from in-game content, doesn't matter if Ion himself comes and says that there are too few of them, when we can see that they are more or the same population as current allied races (except Nightborne surely) and some other classical races.

At this point, for HE to be too little of them, they should be less than a hundred or wiped out from warcraft.

Try changing your argumentation, that thing doesn't work.

[Obelisk Kai]

Sorry if i have to repeat myself, but i don't know how to say it anymore.

The population issue is not an issue anymore, stick that to your head, it can be seen from in-game content, doesn't matter if Ion himself comes and says that there are too few of them, when we can see that they are more or the same population as current allied races (except Nightborne surely) and some other classical races.

At this point, for HE to be too little of them, they should be less than a hundred or wiped out from warcraft.

Try changing your argumentation, that thing doesn't work.

Ion himself did come out and say there are too few of them.

He works on the game. You do not.

His position trumps yours.

It is your argument, that we must ignore what the developers say because it doesn't fit with your narrative, that needs to be jettisoned.

[Darththeo]

Ion himself did come out and say there are too few of them.

He works on the game. You do not.

His position trumps yours.

It is your argument, that we must ignore what the developers say because it doesn't fit with your narrative, that needs to be jettisoned.

Yet his position is that there aren't enough High Elves left. There has to be more High Elves than Void Elves in the world (canonly speaking). After all Void Elves are just a small group of Blood Elves (an elite force or something like that, that had their own view). Just like canonly, Blood Elves aren't the largest population of the Horde (however, player wise they are popular). His view that there isn't enough of them is factually wrong and just because he is a dev doesn't give his statement instant status.

You need to understand just because he is a dev doesn't mean he is automatically correct in his stance. He can be factually wrong because he is a human, not a god.

[Aldo Hawk]

Yet his position is that there aren't enough High Elves left. There has to be more High Elves than Void Elves in the world (canonly speaking). After all Void Elves are just a small group of Blood Elves (an elite force or something like that, that had their own view). Just like canonly, Blood Elves aren't the largest population of the Horde (however, player wise they are popular). His view that there isn't enough of them is factually wrong and just because he is a dev doesn't give his statement instant status.

You need to understand just because he is a dev doesn't mean he is automatically correct in his stance. He can be factually wrong because he is a human, not a god.

Ion Hazzikostas is a god himself, be cautelous with your heresy or you will burn in hell for the rest of eternity PAYING FOR YOUR SINS.

Ion 'Big Package' Hazzikostas shall not be contraried, shall not be defied, and shall not be corrected, God-in-earth improves himself every time he breathes, don't dare to look into his perfect green eyes, OR FACE DIVINE CONSEQUENCES.

He gives, he withdraws, he modify.

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Ion himself did come out and say there are too few of them.

He works on the game. You do not.

His position trumps yours.

It is your argument, that we must ignore what the developers say because it doesn't fit with your narrative, that needs to be jettisoned.

Is not ignoring what he says my dear, is pointing when something doesn't apply with what we seen.

[FlubberPuddy]

Ion also didn't even use the population argument in his recent spiel. Even he is smart enough to know after Void Elves that the population argument makes no sense at all. Especially that we're dealing with ALLIED RACES not Major Races. Population of all Allied Races should be smaller by design.

He said High Elves just aren't active enough as a large group in a clear enough way.

"but also there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group which remains in Azeroth. There's a couple...we just met Alleria again...but they're not out there in the same way."

Which again, if you just use Void Elves as being playable and under this standard then they lose out in that regard too. Alleria was the ONLY example of what a Void Elf is.

Yet here is Ion even saying there's a couple examples of High Elves but apparently not at the volume they want. Yet Alleria's sole purpose and storyline was designed to create a whole new group of elves.

Also it's wrong for him to say there's no clear example of High Elves but then allow for Mag'har to be a thing. They're in the same boat, they're both "uncorrupted" versions of their already playable race groups. Mag'har are just literal and High Elves in the figurative sense.

It's easy to define what an Alliance High Elf is though, they didn't take in the Fel and left/got thrown out of their homes due to picking their friends (Alliance) over their families. The average Alliance High Elf isn't as haughty as the average Blood Elf in the fact that the Quel'dorei are known to intermingle with the "lesser races" as told by Elisande.

Of course all this is apparently too subtle for Blizzard, and Allied Race customization is about looks over lore. Lore only ties into when a race can be made playable aka "We Blizzard will write them story for why now they join" aka it can happen whenever Blizzard wants it to.

Doesn't take away the fact that High Elves continue to be a popular Alliance option for most Alliance players, even JdRobe's thread it's easy to see that High Elves are brought up often enough. As often as Wildhammer Dwarves.

[Hawkknight97]

Ion also didn't even use the population argument in his recent spiel. Even he is smart enough to know after Void Elves that the population argument makes no sense at all. Especially that we're dealing with ALLIED RACES not Major Races. Population of all Allied Races should be smaller by design.

He said High Elves just aren't active enough as a large group in a clear enough way.

"but also there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group which remains in Azeroth. There's a couple...we just met Alleria again...but they're not out there in the same way."

Which again, if you just use Void Elves as being playable and under this standard then they lose out in that regard too. Alleria was the ONLY example of what a Void Elf is.

Yet here is Ion even saying there's a couple examples of High Elves but apparently not at the volume they want. Yet Alleria's sole purpose and storyline was designed to create a whole new group of elves.

Also it's wrong for him to say there's no clear example of High Elves but then allow for Mag'har to be a thing. They're in the same boat, they're both "uncorrupted" versions of their already playable race groups. Mag'har are just literal and High Elves in the figurative sense.

It's easy to define what an Alliance High Elf is though, they didn't take in the Fel and left/got thrown out of their homes due to picking their friends (Alliance) over their families. The average Alliance High Elf isn't as haughty as the average Blood Elf in the fact that the Quel'dorei are known to intermingle with the "lesser races" as told by Elisande.

Of course all this is apparently too subtle for Blizzard, and Allied Race customization is about looks over lore. Lore only ties into when a race can be made playable aka "We Blizzard will write them story for why now they join" aka it can happen whenever Blizzard wants it to.

Doesn't take away the fact that High Elves continue to be a popular Alliance option for most Alliance players, even JdRobe's thread it's easy to see that High Elves are brought up often enough. As often as Wildhammer Dwarves.

Here Here.

This perfectly explains a lot that why the Anti High Elf crowd/Thalassian Fanboys failed to understand the reason why there's still Players out there still asking for High Elves. Its not just because they want to play a Precious Thalassian Model with Blue Eyes its the fact that the remaining surviving High Elves who were not around in Quel'thalas like Outlands for example or exiled from the Sin'dorei Blood Elves are still around. You see within Outlands Stronghold, Highvale in Hinterlands, Etc.

The Fact that Horde is getting uncorrupted versions of orcs like Mag'har for example should make more sense for Quel'dorei High Elves to be playable. If people started to complain about Model so much why not do a new model like the Nightborne or Kul'tiran Humans with a different model that still fits Quel'dorei Warcraft 2 High Elf theme with different eye colors then blue. I mean I have seen customization that makes High Elves completely different like in terms of eye colors of purple, deep blue, and sky blue. There's Celtic inspired Tattoos, Beards, Hairstyles, Etc.

Point being said as long as Alliance Players still ask for a Warcraft 2 Race that hasn't been in the game for a long time now the popular demand still is there. I mean to be 100% Honest I'm kind of tried of having Elven races or races in general on the alliance to be blue, blue, purple, purple, dark blue, light blue doesn't matter what its still the same boring color. It was good first time and second with Night Elves and Draeneis but after that its too much.

At the end of day I don't care what different options Blizzard does for the High Elves. Ether being like Snow Elves who were up in Northrend for so long or Storm Elves who probably got lightning runic powers or maybe great awesome high elf idea concept of High Elves in Northern Lordaeron by a wow fan artist. As long as these three elf options are High Elven of the Quel'dorei High Elves I'll be happy. Heck I'll even be more happy for Wildhammer Dwarves. Yes Dark Iron Dwarves are coming but I'm little bit more of Celtic/Scottish lover that really likes the overall celtic theme to the Wildhammer Dwarves.

[Deleted]

"but also there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group which remains in Azeroth. There's a couple...we just met Alleria again...but they're not out there in the same way."

I rather believe that he personally has no clear idea, who or what High Elves could be, but this is just a prof, that he was not paying any attention of what players actually wanted. Because there are ideas for the development of High Elves all around there, in fact in huge numbers.

[Deleted]

Is this thread still alive and people still discuss this topic?

[Deleted]

I rather believe that he personally has no clear idea, who or what High Elves could be, but this is just a prof, that he was not paying any attention of what players actually wanted. Because there are ideas for the development of High Elves all around there, in fact in huge numbers.

Mainly ideas on how to ret con so that High Elves are different and also ret con in game lore and dialogue that the high elves are a fading race.

Ret conning seems to be accepted in this case for some reason.

[Deleted]

Mainly ideas on how to ret con so that High Elves are different and also ret con in game lore and dialogue that the high elves are a fading race.

Ret conning seems to be accepted in this case for some reason.

Neither creating a new lore, nor filling the gaps in the existing one is a retcon.

But yes - there is some level of acceptance. Probably because of how many times retcons have been already used to justify Blood Elves and push them in High Elf territory. Unsuccessfully, as they are still not recognized commonly as such.

[Darththeo]

"but also there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group which remains in Azeroth. There's a couple...we just met Alleria again...but they're not out there in the same way."

How I take this quote is that the surviving High Elves are too diverse to say that one group represents what High Elves are and none of the groups are large enough to say that is what High Elves are.

[Obelisk Kai]

Yet his position is that there aren't enough High Elves left. There has to be more High Elves than Void Elves in the world (canonly speaking). After all Void Elves are just a small group of Blood Elves (an elite force or something like that, that had their own view). Just like canonly, Blood Elves aren't the largest population of the Horde (however, player wise they are popular). His view that there isn't enough of them is factually wrong and just because he is a dev doesn't give his statement instant status.

You need to understand just because he is a dev doesn't mean he is automatically correct in his stance. He can be factually wrong because he is a human, not a god.

It is not just about him being a developer. As I have posted, there are multiple statements across fifteen years of lore where Blizzard has consistently brought up the population issue as one of the strikes against playable Alliance High Elves.

It is not the biggest problem with the idea of course, the biggest problem with the idea being that High Elves are already playable, but it is one of the many flaws a lot of people are familiar with and people are familiar with it because Blizzard themselves keep bringing it up.

Saying Ion is wrong on the population issue neglects that he isn't the only one saying it, it is the usual pro High Elf attempt to isolate the words of one individual, disregard his seniority and authority, and then say he's only Human so of course he is making a mistake.

Here's the truth.

He isn't wrong. Just as the Warcraft Encyclopedia isn't wrong. Just as Caydiem wasn't wrong. Every time Blizzard has talked about High Elves in depth, their rarity has been brought up as one of the justifications for them not being playable.

We have no real numbers for the populations of the Lightforged Draenei or the Void Elves, but we do have SOME evidence to make informed speculation on.

The Lightforged Draenei have fought the Legion for many thousands of years. The Lightforged Draenei have been able to reproduce, so they must have raised successive generations on board the Xenedar. We know this because in the lightforged Draenei scenario, there are young Draenei being inducted. As they are young, they must have been born on board the Xenedar. The Lightforged Draenei are therefore a society unto themselves, one able to replenish the losses they have undoubtedly suffered through the attrition of war and the ravages of old age. The LF Draenei almost certainly outnumber the Alliance High Elves.

The Void Elves are a matter of debate. It is heavily implied that the Void Elves are able to convert other thalassian elves willing to join their cause into Void Elves. If this is true, then the Void Elves would easily at this point outnumber the remaining Alliance High Elves as they would be able to draw from both groups to boost their numbers.

While informed speculation only, you cannot do the same thing for Alliance High Elves given that Blizzard has been very vocal and very consistent in letting us know they are almost all dead and that the survivors are likely interbreeding with humanity.

[Gurluas]

This topic is going nowhere, but there is still something we can discuss. So Void elves didn't satisfy those wanting classical Elves, and High elves are off the table for now...Yesterday I made a post which was ignored since it was a page-ender.

How about something like this as a new elf race instead?
The main issue with Void elves is that it REALLY limits what kind of character you can be.
You HAVE to use dark magic, you HAVE to have been a Blood elf who decided to fuck with the Void alongside Umbridge, you HAVE to be an emo.
It's very limiting compared to all other races except perhaps Lightforged.

There is one candidate to become Snow elves in wow, the Shandaral elves. Currently to our knowledge they all died, but what if some survived underground or in hiding?
They'd be crystallized elves, immune to the cold.

They'd be visually similar to the Crystal Dryads.


Essentially, they'd Highborne who were crystallized by the Arcane explosion but somehow survived and retained their sanity.
They'd have no problem with the Cold due to being made of crystal, since the explosion they relocated to the most remote corners of Northrend, building beautiful crystalline structures in the icy wastes.

Snow elves could be the true compromise. A new take on Elves that still has the "magical" elf feel, and doesn't lock your character in place.



Had we gotten this instead of Void elves I'd have been friggin happy, I love Snow elves, and they wouldn't be locked into using the Void or being emos.

[Obelisk Kai]

Ion Hazzikostas is a god himself, be cautelous with your heresy or you will burn in hell for the rest of eternity PAYING FOR YOUR SINS.

Ion 'Big Package' Hazzikostas shall not be contraried, shall not be defied, and shall not be corrected, God-in-earth improves himself every time he breathes, don't dare to look into his perfect green eyes, OR FACE DIVINE CONSEQUENCES.

He gives, he withdraws, he modify.

Like it or not, he is a developer, you are a fan with an agenda.

His word trumps your word, and no matter how much you might think you've caught a developer in a lie or a mistake, it does not make it so.

After all, look what happened to poor High Elven Arcanist Ilira once the pro High Elf community trumpeted her existence and the existence of her fellow High Elven NPCs inside Warfronts as evidence of the 'strong and visible' High Elven presence within the Alliance.

It looks like once Blizzard realised the implication of overusing High Elves, they got turned into Horde Blood Elves and the Alliance NPCs were replaced by generic Humans.

It was the one time I felt the pro High Elf community actually managed to affect the game.

Basically if you manage to prove a developer wrong on an in game representation they aren't going to change the story in response. They'll change the game to match the story.

IIs not ignoring what he says my dear, is pointing when something doesn't apply with what we seen.

Which is highly subjective and open to interpretation.

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I rather believe that he personally has no clear idea, who or what High Elves could be, but this is just a prof, that he was not paying any attention of what players actually wanted. Because there are ideas for the development of High Elves all around there, in fact in huge numbers.

This is of course, incorrect.

Look at it realistically. Pretending the game director has no idea what he is talking about leaves open the possibility that once you get through to him, once you sit him down, once you very carefully explain what High Elves are that the scales will fall from his eyes and he will see that you were correct all along.

Firstly, that is arrogance. It presumes that your understanding of this topic trumps his. Never mind that High Elves were almost certainly considered as an Allied race and that they were rejected on the grounds that they are identical to Blood Elves save political affiliation. Never mind that Blood Elves being identical to High Elves except for political affiliation is something supported by every piece of evidence, both in game and out.

Secondly, it is desperation. Because the far likelier rationale is that Ion knows exactly what the High Elves of Warcraft are, that the dev team knows it too and that it wasn't enough to justify them as an Allied race. You are presuming ignorance because the prosaic truth, that what you believe to be very strong arguments are actually exceptionally weak and didn't stand up under scrutiny, is too harsh to accept.

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Is this thread still alive and people still discuss this topic?

It's a variant of the Kubler-Ross model of grieving. Normally there are five stages. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. This is different.

With the pro High Elf community we start with Bargaining, all the artwork you see in this thread and elsewhere detailing how High Elves COULD be if Blizzard would only look. The pleading, the wheedling, the petitions, all of it is bargaining.

Then we get a developer comment, sometimes offhand, sometimes direct, emphasizing that High Elves aren't going to happen. We then move on to stage 2, Anger, where pro High Elf commentators get very upset that their bargaining didn't work. After a time the anger abates and we reach stage 3 denial.

Denial that the developer actually said no. Denial that the developer knew what he was talking about. Denial that the rationales continually presented as to why playable Alliance High Elves aren't going to be a thing matter. Denial that the comment still holds because it was said AGES ago and they may have changed their minds since. Denial that it was actually a 'no'. After a time they go back to bargaining and the cycle repeats.

[Deleted]

Man... Have You ever heard about thinking by yourself? Questioning authorities? Critical listening?

He don't look like he feels elven themes well, he don't sound like he feels elven themes well. He looks and sounds like person, who is tired of being asked again and again about something, that is not his primary sphere interest, and so he probably is. Because the game is not just about the elves. There could be thousands of people on the world with better sense of elves, and It's fine, cause not everyone have to get scientific degree in practical elfology. So why I should not believe him, that they have no good ideas what to do with them?

Sad thing - he is in charge, and that do not it does not bode well to all in game elves.

Never mind that High Elves were almost certainly considered as an Allied race and that they were rejected on the grounds that they are identical

If I was man, who can do everything with in game world, then having good ideas about what to do with some things, would be definitely more important for me, that their current state, which do not limits me in any way. Sure they were. We can even guess role of the Rule of Cool, and distorted feedback in this process, that made us end with Void Elves. We might even assume, that they wanted well. However, well... I still get sad, when looking at Void Elf. Assuming such causes is in fact just more reasonable, than listening to some explanations based on in game obstacles, that were in many cases already proved invalid. I don't but this answers.

desperation

Is what You feel, when it occurs, that You are last Ion's herald, and no one more is willing to deal with classical elf demands, neither even believing, they can be stopped without any the proper answer? Cause I feel maybe little annoyed, that good ideas are still waisted, but rather still in good cheer, when I see, that in most cases people who are willing to listen, rather get what it is all about with time.

Work on entertainment industry and pop culture is rather always superficial, trivial, blindly following the dominant ideological cliches, washed out of respect for own subject, and for own recipients, completely incompatible with subtlety and deep thought. Conducted without a good plan, in a permanent hurry and with any concerns only about fastest possible money. So there is no reason to care about it to much, and no reason to get 'desperate' about anything.

There are however reasons to stay calmly on your position, and precisely define what You want. And so - there are some reason to stay here and remind, that good ideas of independent High Elf development, consistent with classical elven themes and players demands actually exist, and do not require neither shocking changes of the story, nor especially hard creative work.

How about something like this as a new elf race instead?
The main issue with Void elves is that it REALLY limits what kind of character you can be.
You HAVE to use dark magic, you HAVE to have been a Blood elf who decided to fuck with the Void alongside Umbridge, you HAVE to be an emo.

Well, crystalline elves are not my favorite idea, neither is appearance of Crystal Dryads, nor having Ice Palaces... It's kind of too much fairytale. I was thinking about something more organic.

Also - snow elves do not seem imho to fit well to hiding underground, rather somewhere in mountains. Maybe in Storm Peaks? It looks like a place, where few things could be still rediscovered. However finding Snow Elves now, when we know Frostborn Dwarves for so long time already, would feel forced to me.

But that's just my opinion.

[Gurluas]

Man... Have You ever heard about thinking by yourself? Questioning authorities? Critical listening?

He don't look like he feels elven themes well, he don't sound like he feels elven themes well. He looks and sounds like person, who is tired of being asked again and again about something, that is not his primary sphere interest, and so he probably is. Because the game is not just about the elves. There could be thousands of people on the world with better sense of elves, and It's fine, cause not everyone have to get scientific degree in practical elfology. So why I should not believe him, that they have no good ideas what to do with them?

Sad thing - he is in charge, and that do not it does not bode well to all in game elves.


If I was man, who can do everything with in game world, then having good ideas about what to do with some things, would be definitely more important for me, that their current state, which do not limits me in any way. Sure they were. We can even guess role of the Rule of Cool, and distorted feedback in this process, that made us end with Void Elves. We might even assume, that they wanted well. However, well... I still get sad, when looking at Void Elf. Assuming such causes is in fact just more reasonable, than listening to some explanations based on in game obstacles, that were in many cases already proved invalid. I don't but this answers.


Is what You feel, when it occurs, that You are last Ion's herald, and no one more is willing to deal with classical elf demands, neither even believing, they can be stopped without any the proper answer? Cause I feel maybe little annoyed, that good ideas are still waisted, but rather still in good cheer, when I see, that in most cases people who are willing to listen, rather get what it is all about with time.

Work on entertainment industry and pop culture is rather always superficial, trivial, blindly following the dominant ideological cliches, washed out of respect for own subject, and for own recipients, completely incompatible with subtlety and deep thought. Conducted without a good plan, in a permanent hurry and with any concerns only about fastest possible money. So there is no reason to care about it to much, and no reason to get 'desperate' about anything.

There are however reasons to stay calmly on your position, and precisely define what You want. And so - there are some reason to stay here and remind, that good ideas of independent High Elf development, consistent with classical elven themes and players demands actually exist, and do not require neither shocking changes of the story, nor especially hard creative work.


Well, crystalline elves are not my favorite idea, neither is appearance of Crystal Dryads, nor having Ice Palaces... It's kind of too much fairytale. I was thinking about something more organic.

Also - snow elves do not seem imho to fit well to hiding underground, rather somewhere in mountains. Maybe in Storm Peaks? It looks like a place, where few things could be still rediscovered. However finding Snow Elves now, when we know Frostborn Dwarves for so long time already, would feel forced to me.

But that's just my opinion.

Well Frostborn are more ice rather than crystal. And yeah perhaps not underground, I just thought they'd hide like the Skyrim Snow elves, I.E go underground into a hidden cut off valley in the most cold areas of Northrend.

It's not High elves, but it's certainly better than Void elves to me, and a crystalline race has a lot of potential to be used in creative ways depending on their abilities.