Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Strippling]

Uh, you might want to do further research before basing your entire finger-wagging post on such an audacious claim as this.

Care to enlighten me on the history of high elf paladins? Mr pretentious

Also, I recommend you read my post again to understand what it is based on. I'd also recommend you read things properly before responding to quotes.

[Obelisk Kai]

But you have to deal with it, stop using points that got already debunked, it's nonsensical that you repeat a hundred times things that does not provide any point at all.

HE are still possible, you like it or not, but please don't try to do as you have the only truth based on your desires, there's nothing pointing to HE being added or denied forever.

Simply, deal, with, it.

I see no points that have been debunked.

Your standard tactic is to counter in game sources or word of god from the developers with your biased opinion and then expect me to concede the point on the basis that your biased opinion has more weight than in game sources or word of god. I am not going to do that.

If you want to debunk my points, rather than simply saying you think they are wrong before embarking on an unearned victory lap, provide meaningful evidence proving it to be so.

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He is not, that's for sure, it's impossible that someone makes those claims with a straight face.

I can assure you I believe absolutely what I post. Because unlike your position, I can provide evidence to back up my assertions.

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Also, Blizzard has stated point blank that half elves like all half races are rare ... so High Elves aren't likely interbreeding with Humans.

Half breed races are rare. But just because they are rare does not mean that the majority of the tiny number of Alliance High Elves are not interbreeding with Humans.

Elisande made the dig at the High Elves that they were mingling their blood after all.

Ion pointed out in the first interview that they are assimilating into their host societies (not going out of their way to create a brand new culture for the sake of it as some in this thread wish to believe). This agrees with what Elisande said.

The logical conclusion is that the incredibly small number of High Elves are open to relations with Humans that will result in the birth of new Half Elves...but because there are so few Alliance High Elves to begin with the resulting Half Elf population is still going to be tiny and rare too.

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Care to enlighten me on the history of high elf paladins? Mr pretentious

Also, I recommend you read my post again to understand what it is based on. I'd also recommend you read things properly before responding to quotes.

The first Paladins on Azeroth were the Knights of the Silver Hand, created to serve the Alliance during the Second War by Archbishop Alonsus Faol when he was still breathing.

The first Paladins were mostly Humans. In fact the only High Elven (now Blood Elven) Paladin I can find evidence for is Mehlar Dawnblade

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mehlar_Dawnblade

He was a student of Uther's. Mehlar is proof that some High Elves WERE Paladins during the Second War era, at least one.

If we reason that any remaining High Elf Paladins would likely show up on the isle of thunder with the Silver Covenant, the last group of organised High Elves on the planet, I checked the isle of thunder npc page on wowhead.

Of the wandering Silver Covenant NPCs I found the Silver Covenant Captains who use warrior abilities, and the Silver Covenant Spellblades who use mage themed melee attacks such as a moon slash that deals arcane damage.

There are no Silver Covenant Paladins present on the Isle of Thunder, suggesting a lack of High Elf Paladins in the modern era.

In game I can only think of the Dalaran Paladin class trainer Rulean Lightsreap...who was replaced by the Draenei Varlean in the Legion version. If there are others it would be nice to know.

[Lumineus]

Care to enlighten me on the history of high elf paladins? Mr pretentious

Also, I recommend you read my post again to understand what it is based on. I'd also recommend you read things properly before responding to quotes.

Oh, so you want me to do your legwork for you too?

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mehlar_Dawnblade now a Blood Elf, but backstory identifies him as a founding member of the Silver Hand
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Thalorien_Dawnseeker - pre Scourging, Paladin armor, mana bar (and in fact it's known that most of the https://wow.gamepedia.com/Royal_Guard_(Quel'Thalas) survivors became Blood Knights) yeah he has Warrior skills; so did Bolvar when he was regent of Stormwind
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Rulen_Lightsreap clearly was never a blood elf
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Champion_Isimode this guy is a joke character, but frankly, so was Zen'kiki and he was the first and only named Darkspear Troll Druid
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Caladis_Brightspear I've heard it said this guy is maybe a hunter but note that his brother, first name unknown, who appears at the lodge in Legion does NOT have a mana bar

And before you say "that's only five guys!" keep in mind that it only took one (Zen'kiki/Nathanos) to approve Troll Druids and UD Hunters, and frankly, Zen'kiki was ex post facto in addition to being comic relief.

I did read your post up until that point, unfortunately I couldn't let your coloring of LITERALLY EVERYONE requesting this based on faulty logic go unanswered, don't talk about the lore if you don't know what the lore is!

Parrots "pretty light skinned elves!" (clearly not dogwhistling or anything, kek) yet calls me pretentious! Projecting much? Never mind that void elves have 4/6 obnoxiously light skin tones, to the point where they're so white you can only tell them apart if they take off their gloves, and are pretty/have better beards, so clearly that's NOT the point.

I wasn't inclined to read the rest of it, and I see you align with that serial misanthrope Obelisk, so I'm going to write you off based on that alone. Your faction identity? Your faction pride? Funny how you didn't give two shits how Blizz stepped on our faction identity in 2006 and our faction pride in 2011. And from what I can see, BfA is shaping up to double down.

[Deleted]

@JdRobespierre I think it's like how @Darththeo mentions it, surviving High Elves being too diverse for any group to represent em.

And game developers job is to see chances in such situation, not only obstacles. And so I'm staying critical about this statement.

I say, that this pushes High Elves into further likeness with the Mag'har Orcs. Those are Orcs that have no specific cultural variation from the existing green Orcs, heck from a recent interview Blizzard even said the point of making Mag'har into Orc Clans is because with armor on they would look too similar to current existing Orcs. Thus came born the idea that they'll vary up the skins with different colors and tattoo textures.

High Elves could then follow suit and become an amalgamation of various High Elf groups brought together. That's been touted already as one of their potential recruitment scenarios. Gather all the diaspora High Elves and bring them collectively together under one banner (just like Mag'har Orcs have done). "Stand as One!" as Anduin says (see this stuff just writes itself).

Also, I don't see why it really matters in the first place that the Alliance High Elves have become dispersed so much that none of the groups are large enough to say what High Elves are. Sounds like Humans to me! And what happened when Blizzard added Stormwind Humans? Those were the generic humans. What happened when Gilneans released? They made em British and Werewolf-y. What happened when Kul'Tiras was released? They made them burly sea-monster hunters.

Each different form of Humans were created to be diverse because Blizzard willed it so. That's really the bottom line here. They can, if they wish to, make High Elves more diverse from Blood Elves. They have enough material to work with as evidenced by the ideas in this thread and elsewhere.

Or alternatively, as I suggested - some of this groups can be written as seeds of the pillars of the new society.

Argument about assimilation sounds rather poor to me too - history knows example of cultures, that survived hundreds of years without home - in occupation, annexation, diaspora etc. There is no reason for devs to hurry up with that assimilation so much.

"No, we do not drink blood--that's the San'layn. Totally different emo elf." - that's just a joke.

Unfortunately - current design of Void Elves is not to serious. Either they will do in the near future something that will allow them to move to the positions of real dark elves - for example start a war, or they will remain a joke. Anyway, any tries of making them acceptable for High Elves fans do not serve them well, as they do not serve well Blood Elves.

Right now what you're asking for, is that you want 100% pro high-elves on this thread and people are not allowed to speak against your thoughts.

Of course they can. However judging this situation strongly depends of how we see how this topic could look like - it could be for example based on sharing ideas of what High Elves actually are, and what they could become, thus - quite helpful in understanding what High Elf fans actually want. Or it might be also time to time place of fair sharing doubts and searching for field for a compromise - which is always easier, when two sides listen to each other. But it could also be a eternal battlefield, and source of insults, where two sides just sit in to sit in trenches, and throw the same, and same arguments for thousand time again. And unfortunately there are people who openly admit, they are on crusade here - just to ensure no place of sharing ideas will exist, and no one will be satisfied.

There are for example threads where people share fan made concepts of Botani as a race. Or Ogres. Ogres are better example, cause we can see examples of some disagreements there - if Ogres shall be muscular, based on Cho'Ghal appearance? More practical, and for sure - more appealing to new players? Or should they stay as they are now in game, and in lore? I have not seen anyone pull out the hardest artillery of destroying game, and lore, about unjustified changes in appearance or anything similar, after suggestions to slim down the Ogres. No one seem to have problem in understanding, that it is practical decision about game in first place, so it should be evaluated in terms of whether it is required and necessary, and all in game explanations are secondary.

Same is with implementation of classic elves to Alliance. Stories about them finding new settlements, new practices, do not have to already exist in game, as they could be introduced in every moment. Thing is - what kind of stories? In what points of game world and game lore they shall be rooted, to avoid being such miss like Void Elves? Cause clearly Blizzard's level of expectation analysis preceding the decision of "giving something like a Blood Elf to the Alliance" was not deep enough to solve the case for this time, and further searchings are rather needed.

Void Elves will not do because they are NOT WHITE.

I personally stated, that It would be much harder to criticize Blizzards deep love to purple and blue elves, if such appearance was given to Storm Elves, as continuation of High Elves story. It was however decided otherwise. Void Elves are not, because they fall in to category of dark elf, and trying to address High Elves fans from such position makes them really indigestible hybrid.

But yes - classical elves are usually rather white to bronze, when it comes to skin color, not purple or orange. Less often, gold or green. But it is also usually dark elves, who can be white in a completely literal sense.

Thread should be imho renamed as "Official High Elf And/Or Classical Elf for Alliance Discussion Megathread" - to highlight it's more creative, problem-dealing side, and mute the aspects related to simple conflict.

[Sigxy]

Thread should be imho renamed as "Official High Elf And/Or Classical Elf for Alliance Discussion Megathread" - to highlight it's more creative, problem-dealing side, and mute the aspects related to simple conflict.

I actually do agree with this, kind of. While I don't think we need more elves in the game and certainly don't think High Elves should be it's own playable race... I DO think it is fun when people come up with some ideas (There was some fan high elf art-work I really liked here). Making up stuff is fun, it's great to share ideas with others and it's awesome when they reply to it!

I just think that when people start to almost demand that they should be playable, it goes a bit far unless they bring up REALLY good points that aren't countered. And trust me, it was fun at the start but when people began to post new threads every week, more than once at times, it just got old really fast and I didn't feel like being silent about it anymore.

But that being said, I'm still looking forward to more concepts of different kinds! If it's good, I'm gonna love it as I'm a huge elf fan. Except D&D ones, never much liked how they are short... takes away the 'nobility & arrogance' I usually get from elves.

[Strippling]

Oh, so you want me to do your legwork for you too?

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mehlar_Dawnblade now a Blood Elf, but backstory identifies him as a founding member of the Silver Hand
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Thalorien_Dawnseeker - pre Scourging, Paladin armor, mana bar (and in fact it's known that most of the https://wow.gamepedia.com/Royal_Guard_(Quel'Thalas) survivors became Blood Knights) yeah he has Warrior skills; so did Bolvar when he was regent of Stormwind
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Rulen_Lightsreap clearly was never a blood elf
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Champion_Isimode this guy is a joke character, but frankly, so was Zen'kiki and he was the first and only named Darkspear Troll Druid
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Caladis_Brightspear I've heard it said this guy is maybe a hunter but note that his brother, first name unknown, who appears at the lodge in Legion does NOT have a mana bar

And before you say "that's only five guys!" keep in mind that it only took one (Zen'kiki/Nathanos) to approve Troll Druids and UD Hunters, and frankly, Zen'kiki was ex post facto in addition to being comic relief.

Parrots "pretty light skinned elves!" (clearly not dogwhistling or anything, kek) yet calls me pretentious! Projecting much

1. Mehlar Dawnblade - I agree this one is a paladin
2. Thalorian Dawnseeker - He is a warrior. Website even says so...
3. Chronicle III suggests they were priests beforehand. They became paladins when the order of blood knights was established. So these guys are blood elf’s
4. I agree he is a paladin
5. Nothing to suggest he was a paladin plus he has green eyes.. so with your same logic claiming thalorian was a paladin because of a visible mana bar then this guy is a blood elf becaus of his visible green eyes.. am I right?
6. Looks like a hunter to me.

So.. that’s approx only two cases of high elf paladins in history!! So, as I previously stated...lorewisehigh elf’s were not paladins, they were priests (apart from two or so exemptions). There is a night elf paladin in the order Hall, does that now mean that lore wise night elf’s were paladins??

Lore wise, blood elf’s were and are paladins (ie orderof the blood knights).

Blood/high elf’s ARE ‘pretty light skinned elfs’ and ARE what was being requested. How is this being pretentious??? I don’t even...

[Sorrior]

Been thinking this myself. That BfA will be the last Horde vs Alliance expansion. BfA ending with Old Gods then the factions finally will understand that they Need to fight together.

They are setting up the hatred Sylvanas has for the Alliance(humans spesifically) and Jainas hatred towards the Horde now before BfA comes. It might come to the part were those two either will be get rid of, or they will redeem themselves and then the Void gets full focus. And think about a full joint Silvermoon again. Glorious.

Now, this is fanfiction from me, but there are reasons to believe that the faction-barrier might be gone after BfA. The faction conflicts are getting tiresome and make less sense overall. And to think to be in 2018, where you can't get the full enjoyment of playing with friends just because you really love that one race on the other side of the barrier. Blizz is doing changes to make it more modern so to speak, this might be a thing they consider, if they are not already on it.

Warcraft was about Humans vs Orcs. But this was 20 years ago. Times change

Plus the whole comment about this being the climax of the faction wars..i have susoect for several months now this is a sort of last sendiff for the faction war..and gods do i hope they are getting rid of it. After we have fought together so often and having old gods and void lords coming up. The fighting just makes too little sense

[matrix123mko]

Unfortunately - current design of Void Elves is not to serious. Either they will do in the near future something that will allow them to move to the positions of real dark elves - for example start a war, or they will remain a joke. Anyway, any tries of making them acceptable for High Elves fans do not serve them well, as they do not serve well Blood Elves.

Yes, they fill different niches. It would be like saying that Kul'tirans are Vrykuls.

[Sorrior]

Well - Snow Elves could be inspired on encountered in Elder Scrolls. However there are also similar elves in old "Spellforce: the Breath of Winter". I always liked elven and dark elven architecture from this game -







I also would love to also see pure black eyes from Spelforce Dark Elves in Warcraft Void Elves, as I mentioned here in first post -





Sorry for not having awesome concepts

Welp you just knockef soellforce up on my backlog list..still not started em even though i have had all 3 for ages lol

[FlubberPuddy]

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Comments like this (and many others similar to it) suggest that the pro-high elf rallies were more founded upon 'pushing to get the pretty light skinned elf model on the alliance...oh and who can also be a paladin', rather than their claims of 'it's not about the model, it's about the lore'. Lorewise high elfs were not paladins...

I don't see an issue with high elfs per se, but I do see an issue when people have been blindly willing to blur the faction lines (even though WoW is and always will be heavily focused around two opposing factions) just so they can have their coveted thalassian model on the blue side... whilst hiding behind the pretense of 'it's about muh lore'. If it's about the lore, then why is story progression for NPC high elfs not sufficient??

I understand some may not see an issue with requesting to play the light skinned thalassian model on alliance, but unfortunately to others this would detract from their faction identity (which you know... is a core aspect of this franchise). Although you or some others may not care about faction identity, I DO, many others do and Blizzard does too. So when you feel 'berated' because people like Obelisk express their views on the matter, please realise that your 'innocent' request is actually coming at the potential expense of others who value faction pride.

Actually, as you are doing here, it's the anti high elf that keeps making it about skin color. I don't know if you've seen, but if Void Elves were made out of a group of High Elves then I wouldn't be here rallying for making them playable.

Because at that point, I would understand that "okay this is the Alliance High Elf story going forward" except that's not what Blizzard did. They made Void Elves solely out of an entirely unheard group of Blood Elves out of thin air. So we are playing the stories of a group of exiled Silvermoon Blood Elves, who need to gain the loyalty of the Alliance as said by Magister Umbric to the Player Void Elf.

Therefore, until new lore is created about High Elves becoming Void Elves, the current lore is that every player-made Void Elf is a Blood Elf that was part of Magister Umbric's crew.

That fact that you latch onto this being about white skin, when a couple of us are talking about the awesomeness of Viking Elves, is showing that the skin color is of important matter to you. To me, it's all about "what makes sense" not strictly just skin color. If it was about skin color then I'd just rally for Void Elves to get more fair-ish skin options. I'm not doing that either.

People who go around accusing others of things usually are the ones projecting it themselves.

Also on the topic of Royal Guard not being Paladins (they were btw) I'm going to follow up on the previous poster's post.

"The Blood Knight order attracted elves of many walks of life. Among them were former priests and priestesses who had turned away from the Light following the Third War, like Liadrin had. Others were former members of the Royal Guard, proud defenders of Quel'Thalas. Warriors and war heroes also joined the order, embracing their new-found powers."

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blood_Knights

Notice in the quote that both Priests and Warriors are outright mentioned, separately, from the members of the Royal Guard. And that every time the Royal Guard is mentioned they are described as "Proud Defenders", some of their members even joined up with the Silver Hand.

"Blood elves were once high elves allied with the humans like the dwarves. Like the two others, high elves also believed in the Holy Light. A few were members of the Silver Hand, such as Mehlar Dawnblade, while others belonged to the high elven Royal Guard."

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Paladin_races

On the page about "PALADIN RACES"

BOOM! Showing that Royal Guard included High Elf Paladins in their ranks, who believed in the Holy Light the same way as Humans and Dwarves.

The people who shout and scream that Paladins are a Blood Elf thing, not a High Elf thing, are like those other people who shouted and screamed when Demo Warlock's Metamorphosis got removed when Demon Hunter got created. Something that the players who didn't know the lore about it, couldn't understand why it was happening.

Ignorance of the lore doesn't make something a reality.

The problem with this is that we all have different opinions on things. And given how this is the -ONLY- thread we can discuss High Elves in, you have to accept the fact that we're going to get both Pro-High Elves and Anti-High Elves. Some people just don't want a high elf race of it's own.

And there's anger from both sides, believe me. Not to mention that while I'm against the idea of High Elves as their own playable race, even I am not too fond of people coming in and say something rude, saying high elves won't be a thing, and just telling people to get over it.

Yet whenever people bring up good reasons, like Obelisk, I'm happy about it because he can actually bring in a discussion about stuff.

As I said above - This is the -ONLY- thread where we can discuss High Elves now because people kept spamming the forums with different High Elf threads over and over. People are allowed to come here and say whatever they want. And they can repeat whatever people say because pro-high elves tend to keep repeating themselves too.

The reason people prefer to listen to people like Obelisk - someone I like to listen to - is that they brings up a lot of good points. I'm the type that prefers to see facts and I'm sorry to say, he has brought up a LOT more facts about them than the pro-High Elves. I'm fairly sure I even asked you the other week that, since you said High Elves would bring in a -lot of money- for Blizzard, I would like to see proof of any single race that is the cause for Blizzard getting a -lot of money-. Because I believe it's always been the gameplay content that has provided the money and the races are just a flavour. You never came back to me on that.

Honestly, this is the -ONLY- thing I've been gathering from Pro-High Elves, with VERY FEW exceptions (and I appreciate them for being more original): "We want WHITE, PRETTY Elves on the non-savage sage. Void Elves will not do because they are NOT WHITE." You don't care about the Lore. You don't care about what's really going on. You want to play an elf that looks pretty on Alliance.

And with that said; that's your opinion and I am actually fine with it. And what I said is my opinion which I am allowed to say on a public forum, especially on the ONLY High Elf thread allowed to exist here.

Going to reply to Bold only since you say a lot of fluff:

1) No actually, people can't come in and say whatever they want. The results of certain peeps being banned within this thread and receiving infarctions shows that. Especially with the most recent mod comment made, I'd advise you to go read it and then try leaving a comment going against what they say not to say and see if you get no warnings/etc.

So yeah absolutely can't just come in and say whatever. Disagreeing? Yeah sure, of course that's fine, but I never spoke about disagreeing, I spoke about berating others and trying to put a stop to the discussion as a whole.

2) You asked me something that no one can provide proof of but that pretty much can be found an answer of in-game and in reality would go nowhere in terms of a conversation. If you saw in-game when the Allied Races were unlocked, those that had 110 AR on the very first day of their release, either A) Boosted a lv 20 AR or B) Paid for a Race Change.

That, by definition, means that it made Blizzard money. Now High Elves, which are incredibly requested to this day, it's a sure bet the same thing would happen and probably in a greater amount than any other AR released so far. Why? Because it's been the longest requested one, by both sides. They are always on top of "which unplayable race would you like to see made playable" polls, none of those polls can have High Elves on top purely because it's simply "Alliance players" voting for them, the popularity comes from both sides.

This is even seen here and on the forums, where there are Horde players that say they would not play them but they can't understand why they shouldn't be added etc.

It's a no brainer that Allied Races bring in additional money to Blizzard, and it's a no-brainer that adding a highly popular Allied Race would bring in even more money. To ask for proof of this is really stupid honestly because no one has access to that information. I could also reverse to you and say, "can you provide proof they aren't gaining Blizzard money?" It's a line of convo that goes nowhere as I mentioned, tis why I didn't bother replying to it back then. I thought you would have enough wits to understand that, but I guess I was wrong.

3) For your last bold just refer to my skin reply to Strippling. You're the one making it about the skin tone, not me. I think anyone who appreciates lore would ask for things that make sense? So people asking for High Elves and then being told "these Void Elves are your High Elves" aren't the ones at the fault here. And my comment to Strippling explains why it is so.

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Also all this commentary and supposed outrage over people asking for an Alliance race, that just happens to have fair skin. Where is the outrage over Horde receiving purple elves? Where are the crusaders for anti-helf in talking about the injustices of bringing something that was unique to Alliance and porting it over to the Horde? Oh yeah you guys don't really give a shit because you have it now, just like ultimately this entire spiel about Alliance High Elves destroying faction identity would result in the same most people not giving a shit once it actually gets added.

And try not to mince words, Nightborne are in-fact Purple Elves to the Horde.

http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=49427/not-our-purple-elves

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@JdRobespierre : Yeah becoming the pillars of some new society would work as well. It's stupid for others to say "Nightborne were made different enough" when they are Night Elves. And then turn around and try to hold Alliance High Elves in stasis as if they cannot grow/progress from where they are now, even though in-game they've been progressing with each expansion.

Blizzard could lead the High Elf story into something that does make them "different enough" just like how Nightborne didn't exist until Legion.

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Yes, they fill different niches. It would be like saying that Kul'tirans are Vrykuls.

Funnily enough, there are those that see Kul'tirans as Vrykul compromise.

What I won't ever understand is why is it only Alliance races that need to be a "compromise" (Void Elves and Kul'Tirans) when 0 Horde races are compromises.

Well anyways, it's a player made assumption they are compromises, doesn't mean Blizzard sees them this way.

[Aldo Hawk]

The problem with this is that we all have different opinions on things. And given how this is the -ONLY- thread we can discuss High Elves in, you have to accept the fact that we're going to get both Pro-High Elves and Anti-High Elves. Some people just don't want a high elf race of it's own.

And there's anger from both sides, believe me. Not to mention that while I'm against the idea of High Elves as their own playable race, even I am not too fond of people coming in and say something rude, saying high elves won't be a thing, and just telling people to get over it.

Yet whenever people bring up good reasons, like Obelisk, I'm happy about it because he can actually bring in a discussion about stuff.



As I said above - This is the -ONLY- thread where we can discuss High Elves now because people kept spamming the forums with different High Elf threads over and over. People are allowed to come here and say whatever they want. And they can repeat whatever people say because pro-high elves tend to keep repeating themselves too.

The reason people prefer to listen to people like Obelisk - someone I like to listen to - is that they brings up a lot of good points. I'm the type that prefers to see facts and I'm sorry to say, he has brought up a LOT more facts about them than the pro-High Elves. I'm fairly sure I even asked you the other week that, since you said High Elves would bring in a -lot of money- for Blizzard, I would like to see proof of any single race that is the cause for Blizzard getting a -lot of money-. Because I believe it's always been the gameplay content that has provided the money and the races are just a flavour. You never came back to me on that.

Honestly, this is the -ONLY- thing I've been gathering from Pro-High Elves, with VERY FEW exceptions (and I appreciate them for being more original): "We want WHITE, PRETTY Elves on the non-savage sage. Void Elves will not do because they are NOT WHITE." You don't care about the Lore. You don't care about what's really going on. You want to play an elf that looks pretty on Alliance.

And with that said; that's your opinion and I am actually fine with it. And what I said is my opinion which I am allowed to say on a public forum, especially on the ONLY High Elf thread allowed to exist here.

Having opinions aren't an excuse for being totally sided and blinded to what others has to say.

And bringing facts about poor argumentation doesn't give anything, argue that HE would bring a lot of money didn't came from my mouth ever because i know that it doesn't bring anything substantial.

Sorry, if you think that somebody is a conquerer for invading a poor country you should change your perspective.

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I see no points that have been debunked.

You never see points debunked, you just see what you want to see, it's useless.

[Obelisk Kai]

You never see points debunked, you just see what you want to see, it's useless.

As I said, it's useless because you still presume to exalt your biased opinion over all available evidence in game and out.

Present actual facts and I'll see what you have, but if you persist in saying the developers don't know what they are talking about but you do, do not expect me to treat your claims with any measure of seriousness.

Until such time as you do that, nothing has been 'debunked'.

[Strippling]

Actually, as you are doing here, it's the anti high elf that keeps making it about skin color. I don't know if you've seen, but if Void Elves were made out of a group of High Elves then I wouldn't be here rallying for making them playable.

Also on the topic of Royal Guard not being Paladins (they were btw) I'm going to follow up on the previous poster's post.

"The Blood Knight order attracted elves of many walks of life. Among them were former priests and priestesses who had turned away from the Light following the Third War, like Liadrin had. Others were former members of the Royal Guard, proud defenders of Quel'Thalas. Warriors and war heroes also joined the order, embracing their new-found powers."

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blood_Knights

Notice in the quote that both Priests and Warriors are outright mentioned, separately, from the members of the Royal Guard. And that every time the Royal Guard is mentioned they are described as "Proud Defenders", some of their members even joined up with the Silver Hand.

"Blood elves were once high elves allied with the humans like the dwarves. Like the two others, high elves also believed in the Holy Light. A few were members of the Silver Hand, such as Mehlar Dawnblade, while others belonged to the high elven Royal Guard."

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Paladin_races

On the page about "PALADIN RACES"

BOOM! Showing that Royal Guard included High Elf Paladins in their ranks, who believed in the Holy Light the same way as Humans and Dwarves.

Firstly, if it was about the lore and not the skin colour then why the heck have pro-high elfers basically only provided ideas and input on how to make HIGH ELFS playable??? I've seen barely any input and suggestions from pro-high elfers on how to progress the high elf story via the void elfs... all I see is ""wah wah we wanted high elfs, not grape elfs". So, tell me again how light skinned pretty elfs on the alliance wasn't the agenda?

Secondly, with regard to the royal guard:

Little is known of what exactly the Royal Guard's duties were, aside from the stated goal of defending high elven society. Due to their name, it is possible that they served as the personal guard force of the royal family, which would also lend credence to defending Regent Lord Theron. This is from https://wow.gamepedia.com/Royal_Guard_(Quel%27Thalas).

I can't find anywhere the states the royal guard were specifically paladins. If I've missed it please let me know. So, stating the royal guard were paladins is likely pure speculation... or in other words 'reaching' to suit a certain agenda (ie. muh elf paladins on the blue side!!). The only solid lore I can find on elf paladins is the order of blood knights.

In your own words, ignorance of the lore doesn't make something a reality... or in this case. head canon lore doesn't make something a reality.

- - - Updated - - -

Funny how you didn't give two shits how Blizz stepped on our faction identity in 2006

What faction identity did Blizz step on?? Are you referring to blood elfs joining the horde? If so, then this is another example of head canon at its finest. Many of the pro-high elfers are the same people who cry still to this day about blood elfs joining the horde. According to them (ie. their own head canon), this should have never happened. According to Blizz (you know..the actual authors of the lore) this should of and did happen... why would they want to join the alliance when the alliance wanted them executed for the most petty of reasons?? So, if this faction identity is what you're referring to then the only thing blizz stepped on was your head cannon.

[Aldo Hawk]

As I said, it's useless because you still presume to exalt your biased opinion over all available evidence in game and out.

Present actual facts and I'll see what you have, but if you persist in saying the developers don't know what they are talking about but you do, do not expect me to treat your claims with any measure of seriousness.

Until such time as you do that, nothing has been 'debunked'.

Hear me out dude, it is you who is maximizing the bits of the discussion, is not about devs not knowing what they talk about, the point we said they don't hold by itself is the population, devs know about warcraft, ones more than others, but don't come here to say that i say they don't know what they are talking about just for pointing a pair of flaws, stop twisting the words, stop being so blinded to your own desires.

Tons of examples ingame were presented in this thread, is not my fault that you didn't take them, not my problem at all, only yours.

It's me who is making a sin taking you seriously repeating the same facts again and again while you evade them because those don't fit your view, again and again and again.

You even came here saying that you didn't saw a HE in your whole alliance leveling experience like if your personal experience is somwehat important. Or coming here saying that is easy to outnumber HE population without backup while still claiming that population is still important when it has been proven that it isn't. Or claiming that developer's word is the only and immovable truth.

I don't even know if you are here for not wanting HE anymore, it currently seems like a seek for attention, you are not being honest in your claims and you are abusing people with weak arguments or attitude, and this is garbage because we can't use the thread for discuss about the matter, it is currently used for place a battle between anti and pro, and that doesn't give anything constructive, if you want to be against HE at least try to be goddamn honest with your points.

[Obelisk Kai]

Firstly, if it was about the lore and not the skin colour then why the heck have pro-high elfers basically only provided ideas and input on how to make HIGH ELFS playable??? I've seen barely any input and suggestions from pro-high elfers on how to progress the high elf story via the void elfs... all I see is ""wah wah we wanted high elfs, not grape elfs". So, tell me again how light skinned pretty elfs on the alliance wasn't the agenda?

Light skinned Elves was always the agenda.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761606896

This links to the Unofficial Void Elf discussion part 11, with links to the other, earlier threads on the front page. The creator of the first thread was Alurna, the author of the High Elf Manifesto that did the rounds for a few months. Posters present in the unofficial void elf discussions would later show up in the High Elf discussions on the official forums.

These threads were created in an ultimately vain attempt to get Blizzard to 'improve' Void Elves. And by improve Void Elves, they meant adding normal skin tones to Void Elves. Enough players said in that thread that normal skin tones would be an acceptable 'compromise' for them that I came to the conclusion that for the vast majority of pro high elfers, the lore truly is irrelevant.

After all, a normal looking Void Elf (indistinguishable from a Blood Elf) would still be edgy, still be emo, still be messing with dark powers and all that nonsense I've seen people complain about as to why Void Elves are unacceptable but as long as they have caucasian skin tones all is forgiven.

Maybe some players really, truly just want Alliance High Elves for the lore. But I guarantee you that is probably a tiny minority. Anyone who posted in those threads asking for normal skin tones for Void Elves is basically admitting it's not about the lore at all. It's not even about the theme. It's about the aesthetic.

[Aldo Hawk]

Enough players said in that thread that normal skin tones would be an acceptable 'compromise' for them that I came to the conclusion that for the vast majority of pro high elfers, the lore truly is irrelevant

With a Mag'har orc you can say that you came from Outland or that you lived in Durotar all these years if you don't use certain emotes, you can't say that from a Void Elf.

And claiming that wanting something does make people admit anything is only your own damn perception, not reality, and while it may be true for somebody is not universal.

These threads are not still alive just for a goddamn look you know?

[Sigxy]

Maybe some players really, truly just want Alliance High Elves for the lore. But I guarantee you that is probably a tiny minority. Anyone who posted in those threads asking for normal skin tones for Void Elves is basically admitting it's not about the lore at all. It's not even about the theme. It's about the aesthetic.

Thing is, even if it was the case that they wanted to play them for the Lore... I'm fairly sure you can still play a Void Elf who was a high elf, got tainted, and now touched by the void. But could still consider itself part of the Silver Covenant (Unless it's a big no-no for Void Elves being part of it).

[Strippling]

With a Mag'har orc you can say that you came from Outland or that you lived in Durotar all these years if you don't use certain emotes, you can't say that from a Void Elf.

You can just as easily rp a void elf who was from the silver covenant..

[Aldo Hawk]

You can just as easily rp a void elf who was from the silver covenant..

Void Elves are part of the Silver Covenant?

Big news!!

[Strippling]

Void Elves are part of the Silver Covenant?

Big news!!

The allied race Mag'har came from outland or durotar?

Big news!!

I said you could rp a silver covenant void elf.. just like you can rp a mag'har from outland...