1. #6221
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    The problem is that we view this same topic differently. I have to disagree (and I'll try to be less hostile).

    See, if lore was the main issue keeping this alive, then people would have been happy and accepted previous, current and upcoming lore development for NPC high elfs. As pro-high elfers have stated on many occasions, HE have appeared in most expansions (some appearances have been small, others more significant) and have apparently been more prevalent then some of the alliance races (ie. gnomes). So I can't understand how the lore is the issue here, when they've been included in storylines in nearly every expansion. Is it more high elf lore that pro-high elfers want? If so, then why can't this be achieved via NPC high elfs? With Alleria being the leader of the void elfs there is potential for a story which involves void elfs and high elfs integrating.

    Aesthetics on the other hand, seems to be the focal reason for keeping this alive. And this is why there has been such a heated argument about high elfs. I'm not gonna go into this topic, as it has been over talked about to death, but Blizz considers it to blur faction lines and I do too (along with many others). Like I said before, if I want to play a bearded dwarf then the alliance is waiting for me, if you want to play a light skinned high elf then the horde is waiting for you.
    -Well, if this is just only about high elf lore of course the discussion would be different, but we are discussing playable characters here, of course HE storylines is something that some people wants, but that's a side of this.

    I stated many times that VE being BE feels insulting for somebody like me that played BE and other horde characters and don't play alliance as much or at all. But i would be fine with them if they were alliance HE infused with void in the first place (being it for the most reasonable reasons Blizzard could provide), and i would totally accept a compromise of some former HE being transformed into VE, that would be end of discussion for me here, it would be an spicy pill to take as some of them would still be BE, but the alliance could at least play something that lorewise are their allied thalassians that weren't ever horde or BE, i would prefer much the pure concept of the HE allied race instead of that little pick, at least it would not feel as bad as VE for people that feel like me and it would be very natural by itself.

    And by being natural is what some people means in a contrary way when pointing to something as an asspull, it's just and allegory for it feeling forced, there is a pretext for HE that ever were there so it doesn't feel that way.

    -The looks of a race aren't all, it's just a way to make them feel different, and this is the point where HE supporters really enters in muddy territory, because we know that lorewise they make sense, but lore itself doesn't hold enought for an allied race as Blizzard points out.

    Some things were discussed about the looks, would they have new customisation options? of course, every new addition does have it, but what kind of customisation then? i'm not even going to say blue eyes because that's something BE should have by now alongside yellow-lighted and green being unique to them, and by now we know that blue eyes are just default as BE green eyes were for so long.

    Apart that, there was a discussion about giving them a new skeleton/animations, and anti HE stated that it would be unnatural, and i agree, even giving them just a slightly different idle would not be right.

    So then, the most popular choice were the tattoos/warpaint, as not all armor covers all the body, you could show some of them to give somekind of visual information, but something as tattoos/warpaint aren't that effective at all just because that surely would be an optional thing just as other tattoos/warpaints are.

    But then we have something that difficultly hides, the ears, and some people here stated that giving special kind of trinkets for the hair/ears (such as feathers or jewelry made of wood or something distinguishable) could be a nice visual information, as we currently can see, nowadays we could still miss a VE from a BE even in close distances in certain situations, not even full armor, in a HE that would be more difficult adding that jewelry are, as other things, optional.

    Then we have the Pandaren situation, we currently have the exact same race in the two factions with the exact same customisation options, and not much happened coming from that. Some argued that Pandaren being neutral killed their lore development, but surely they were not talking about how they look, so that would not apply to HE and BE, so they would not come from the same starting point in current lore, but they would have their clear differences, both of them even have places they can call home unlike Pandaren that doesn't seems to be returning to their island or setting locations (that's kind of Blizzard's fault), we have a precedent where nothing disastrous happened with having the same race in the two factions, and with HE, they would only not just be thalassians, but thalassians with their own way apart from BE, with their (even being little) own foundations out there in the world.

    -As you can see the muddy part comes with looks, because that is what pull HE apart from being an allied race, and it's just that, just that detail that separates what we can play with what is in the lore, a VE is not a replacement just because it's ties with void and BE themes, being the void the un-apartable thing while the BE thing is the most subtle, but tied to VE, that's why i made the comparison between Mag'har and VE, you can pretend succesfully that you are from Outland or an ex-Garrosh sympathiser in the form of a dragonmaw orc because the AU draenor theme is not tied to Mag'har (That doesn't mean i like the idea of the whole AU Mah'gar...), while the void theme of VE not only separates them from HE, but have it's ties with exiled BE that currently doesn't seems to bend.

    It's all in Blizzard's hands, and until now we didn't got a positive response about the matter, and definitely not an ultimatum.

    Sorry if it was too long, there's much i would add, i just wanted to express what i got from participating in the HE discussion since two months, and playing wow since 7 or 8 years.

  2. #6222
    Looks like Blizz has decided to resort to all out censorship of the High Elf topic on their forums. They are simply deleting threads or posts that support the idea at all now. At least MMOC still lets us have freedom of speech.

  3. #6223
    Quote Originally Posted by Fossil Free View Post
    Looks like Blizz has decided to resort to all out censorship of the High Elf topic on their forums. They are simply deleting threads or posts that support the idea at all now. At least MMOC still lets us have freedom of speech.
    They tried to consolidate the various HE threads that kept popping up into one megathread. As of recent (within the last week or so) a number of different HE threads have begun to pop up again on top of the megathread. I'd say as a result of this Blizz may be censoring them as it's a violation of their thread policies (ie. spam)

  4. #6224
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    They tried to consolidate the various HE threads that kept popping up into one megathread. As of recent (within the last week or so) a number of different HE threads have begun to pop up again on top of the megathread. I'd say as a result of this Blizz may be censoring them as it's a violation of their thread policies (ie. spam)
    I just checked the US official forums and the 'Alliance High Elves as a playable race' thread is missing. Went back ten pages covering two days and it just isn't there. It was there yesterday, I'm sure of it.

    The only High Elf topic I saw in fact was one about elven Paladins that insisted it wasn't a High Elf thread.

    I can't post in the US forums so I only check them periodically, but some form of High Elf thread has been on the front page of General for the past seven months. Now a week or so after the Q and A where Ion ruled out Alliance High Elves, which triggered a proliferation of threads, the US mods attempted to consolidate feedback into one thread and began closing all the others. It's for the same reason the moderators here created the megathread, an attempt to consolidate the discussion into one location so that it wouldn't overwhelm the forums with the constant spam.

    While I am not surprised at the moderators closing all other High Elf topics on the official forum, I am surprised they've seemingly deleted the unofficial thread there. I wonder if it was a mistake, or overzealous interpretation of internal moderator guidelines regarding certain topics (i.e. only one High Elf thread allowed but in a sweep to get rid of the extraneous ones they closed the allowed one) or if the moderators have finally had enough of policing a circular discussion which is only circular because some of the participants persist in disregarding the answer they were given.

    Only time will tell, but a new high elf thread will probably prop up in the fullness of time.

  5. #6225
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    I just checked the US official forums and the 'Alliance High Elves as a playable race' thread is missing. Went back ten pages covering two days and it just isn't there. It was there yesterday, I'm sure of it.

    The only High Elf topic I saw in fact was one about elven Paladins that insisted it wasn't a High Elf thread.

    I can't post in the US forums so I only check them periodically, but some form of High Elf thread has been on the front page of General for the past seven months. Now a week or so after the Q and A where Ion ruled out Alliance High Elves, which triggered a proliferation of threads, the US mods attempted to consolidate feedback into one thread and began closing all the others. It's for the same reason the moderators here created the megathread, an attempt to consolidate the discussion into one location so that it wouldn't overwhelm the forums with the constant spam.

    While I am not surprised at the moderators closing all other High Elf topics on the official forum, I am surprised they've seemingly deleted the unofficial thread there. I wonder if it was a mistake, or overzealous interpretation of internal moderator guidelines regarding certain topics (i.e. only one High Elf thread allowed but in a sweep to get rid of the extraneous ones they closed the allowed one) or if the moderators have finally had enough of policing a circular discussion which is only circular because some of the participants persist in disregarding the answer they were given.

    Only time will tell, but a new high elf thread will probably prop up in the fullness of time.
    Oh ok, thanks for the update. Does seem weird to delete the unofficial thread but I'm sure another will pop up soon

  6. #6226
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by TotalSyn View Post
    I'm pretty much fine with anything that does not use the Thalasian model, even if it's labelled a high elf.
    I misunderstood You then. Sorry. I was thinking You are against connecting the story of future classic elves with existing High Elven groups. But when You put it this way - I personally in fact perfectly agree with You, that they are not ready for implementation, and need some development.

    I didin't also said You used this term, I just noticed necessity of acknowledging this problem. If race is to traditional - they will be heard voices, that it is unnecessarily, generic, or not unique enough. If it is introduced as totally new, and not rooted in existing story - such voices are sure to be heard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The developer's word is the only truth.
    Not exactly. When some name is also a common name, developer won't be able to convince everyone that 2 + 2 = 7, cause it refers to things existing outside game. And this is the case here. They have no full control about what people recognize as "High Elf", and what they do not, cause it is not just their creation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    because when they were meaningfully differentiated, the pro High Elf community threw a massive strop and said it wasn't good enough.
    This is a manipulation. You actually rejected ideas of differentiating in way consistent with theme, proposed by High Elf fans - like bronze skins - by yourself, and You are staying silent about it now. You refer only to such tries of differentiation that were clearly here said to be harming to current relation of particular elf interpretation to archetype. Because that is more suiting to your thesis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Blizz for the moment seem to agree with y
    This is out of discussion, that they are.

    However not everyone have to take for good coin, when they say their excuses. I'm for example strongly convenient, that making classical elves playable for Alliance in not harmful for the game way is absolutely possible. And this is a statement I defend here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    With Alleria being the leader of the void elfs there is potential for a story which involves void elfs and high elfs integrating.
    This one is actually troubling for elven fans, as it rather endangers elven identities.

    As for now High Elven presence on screen do not resulted in independent development, that would make them possible to be playable, by differentiating enough. There are some points of lore, that could be used in such way - Highvale Elf story, Isle of Thunder Story, but they were never pushed to the point making High Elves ready to unlock.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    if I want to play a bearded dwarf then the alliance is waiting for me
    So, the reason why we can not have Vyrkul, is that Dwarves also have beards, right? This is why any other race can not have beard?

    If we simplify race to just one particular aspect of it's appearance - two things happen. First, we destroy it's concept, at races are defined by relation of all their properties to archetype, not just appearance. If You describe Blood Elf just by it's skin color - this is not a Blood Elf anymore. I know, that for some people paying attention to more elements is tiresome, but they are still there, and they at least to some point determine popularity of the race and it's reception.

    Second - we end with quite absurd conclusions. For example - that there is no way of making classical elf on Alliance side, that would be at least as different from Blood Elves, as NIghtborne are from Night Elves. And this is simple not true. Such solutions are possible here.

    If Blizzard will get to conclusion, that skin color alone is factor more important, than making new elven race more classical and more similar to WCII, and partially WCIII elves - their next try of making answer might be even worst, than Void Elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    That's not what happened though, Void Elves are entirely Blood Elves and even the newest lore that came out about them from Magister Umbric continues to state and show that they're ALL exiled Silvermoon Blood Elves that are part of his crew. It's head canon to think any Void Elves are High Elves right now.
    Maybe they concluded, that it would be easier to bypass of population problem, when they would be able to supply their ranks on both sides, maybe they concluded that Alleria solitary traveling through Twisting Nether for a thousand years, can not become whole new race alone, and maybe they understood, that making elves who refused use fel in past void practitioners now would be to ridiculous even for them.

    But no matter what the reason was - now that move now confirms, that Void Elves could not be considered answer for people asking High Elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    And the reason people switched from the Void Elf threads to High Elf threads is because those people were fed up with trying to compromise and said "you know what, let's just ask for what we really want - High Elves" and those why those discussion threads were born and Void Elf threads were left to rot.
    And this is in fact sad, that some people trying to handle somehow situation in what Blizzard carelessly put them, might now become argument for ant-High Elven statements.

  7. #6227
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    I think the reason the unofficial High Elf thread got 404'd is because it can get pretty toxic.

    Just like this thread can at time also get toxic. But the moderators here give out warnings before starting with bans.

    It's not the first time the US High Elf threads get 404'd when the discussion gets too heated.

    I wouldn't see it as the moderators tire of the discussion, more so that the trolls who come to be antagonistic and toxic got the thread closed because too many people took their bait and toxicity and responded back in kind.

    As others have said, another will pop up back soon, I wouldn't be overly concerned with it.

    I did find some interesting news yesterday checking the High Elf Discord.

    1) They added some High Elves back to the Arathi Warfront, as part of the 7th Legion. This makes absolute sense since High Elf War Mages have been in the 7th Legion since Wrath.

    2) Ian Bates (Red shirt Guy) also found some more nondescript High Elf NPCs in BfA in some underwater bar or something with some other Alliance NPCs hanging around. -- So High Elf presence continues to be a thing, albeit in a minor manner (which makes sense for them as a minor race, not main race).

    3) Probably the most interesting thing: Ion Hazzikostas himself liked a Tweet from a fan saying that they were disappointed High Elves would not be playable for the Alliance for the time being and they hope that one day Blizzard can make this race that people enjoy and love so much playable.

    Edit: Also there is newer High Elf fan artwork in the HE Discord, I wish it were posted here, some of it is incredibly beautiful and bad ass!!

  8. #6228
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    3) Probably the most interesting thing: Ion Hazzikostas himself liked a Tweet from a fan saying that they were disappointed High Elves would not be playable for the Alliance for the time being and they hope that one day Blizzard can make this race that people enjoy and love so much playable.
    I think Ion stopped making Q&A because of all the controversy created by his comments on the high elf subject.
    Blizzard wanted to avoid another internet war after what happened in the last Q&A, and so i doubt he will do another Q&A soon.

  9. #6229
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    Wait, they are deleting high elf threads on the Blizzard forums? Well that's annoying. I can see it being an issue if there were too many threads but some kind of warning would've been good.

    Even if I don't want High Elves as a playable thing, they shouldn't delete pro-high elves' opinions just like that. ;_:

  10. #6230
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    Wait, they are deleting high elf threads on the Blizzard forums? Well that's annoying. I can see it being an issue if there were too many threads but some kind of warning would've been good.

    Even if I don't want High Elves as a playable thing, they shouldn't delete pro-high elves' opinions just like that. ;_:
    Yes, that is very sad if it is true. I'm also a pro high elf person.
    Forced deleted high elf threads won't help blizzard at all, if it is true.

  11. #6231
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    I think Ion stopped making Q&A because of all the controversy created by his comments on the high elf subject.
    Blizzard wanted to avoid another internet war after what happened in the last Q&A, and so i doubt he will do another Q&A soon.
    Nothing surprising.

    If I was a game director, I would for sure not came out for the audience and said for the third time "we actually have no god idea what to do with them" but instead, said to coworkers "I'm waiting for expectation analysis on my desk till Monday, and let it better be the last time, I had to answer to that wild peoples demands".

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    they shouldn't
    Never ever expect any kind of human decency from company. Profit and PR are the only things that matter.
    Last edited by mmoc5cb4a68957; 2018-06-01 at 04:26 PM.

  12. #6232
    Quote Originally Posted by JdRobespierre View Post
    Nothing surprising.

    If I was a game director, I would for sure not came out for the audience and said for the third time "we actually have no god idea what to do with them" but instead, said to coworkers "I'm waiting for expectation analysis on my desk till Monday, and let it better be the last time, I had to answer to that wild peoples demands".


    Never ever expect any kind of human decency from company. Profit and PR are the only things that matter.
    it wouldnt be for the 3rd time it would be for the 5th time apparently.
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  13. #6233
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    they shouldn't delete pro-high elves' opinions just like that. ;_:
    They're not. All the other ones are still up. Sometimes they can just get pretty toxic due to anti-helf and pro-helf back and forth, just like this thread. That's why they get 404'd sometimes. This isn't the first time it's happened.

    It'll be back or a new one will take its place, I wouldn't worry.

  14. #6234
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    They're not. All the other ones are still up. Sometimes they can just get pretty toxic due to anti-helf and pro-helf back and forth, just like this thread.

    It'll be back or a new one will take its place, I wouldn't worry.
    And when it does, I'm pretty sure you'll see it as a sign that helves are coming

  15. #6235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    How about Vrykul Elves? Kval'dorei got a nice ring to it.
    Why are Void Elves not called Voi'dorei? Blizz fucked up when they named them.

  16. #6236
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deno View Post
    And when it does, I'm pretty sure you'll see it as a sign that helves are coming
    As Ornyx once said, people should be allowed to discuss game related matters, which are what High Elves being playable are all about.

    Toxicity isn't needed nor should be encouraged. Therefore I don't see it as wrong when they 404 the threads due to too many toxic posts.

    If people can't stay on topic or get jebaited then that's their fault as well and not just any one side.

    EDIT: Anyways, got into Beta so now I can experience some BfA High Elf-ness on my own accord

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    Why are Void Elves not called Voi'dorei? Blizz fucked up when they named them.
    Why aren't Nightborne called "Ni'dorei" and instead Shal'dorei?

    The prefixes mean something different, not necessarily pertaining exactly to the prefix describing the Elves.

  17. #6237
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    Why are Void Elves not called Voi'dorei? Blizz fucked up when they named them.
    It's like a meme. Ren as in Kylo Ren is kinda edgy, and so are the void elves.

  18. #6238
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    As Ornyx once said, people should be allowed to discuss game related matters, which are what High Elves being playable are all about.

    Toxicity isn't needed nor should be encouraged. Therefore I don't see it as wrong when they 404 the threads due to too many toxic posts.

    If people can't stay on topic or get jebaited then that's their fault as well and not just any one side.

    EDIT: Anyways, got into Beta so now I can experience some BfA High Elf-ness on my own accord

    - - - Updated - - -



    Why aren't Nightborne called "Ni'dorei" and instead Shal'dorei?

    The prefixes mean something different, not necessarily pertaining exactly to the prefix describing the Elves.
    Well, it wasn't really toxicity or anything, nor it was intended to be. It was a banter at your state when some mods expanded the helf threads, which honestly was ridiculous. Especially with the way you go against people, I think you should be able to take some banter when someone does it to you .
    Last edited by Deno; 2018-06-01 at 07:22 PM.

  19. #6239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fossil Free View Post
    Looks like Blizz has decided to resort to all out censorship of the High Elf topic on their forums. They are simply deleting threads or posts that support the idea at all now. At least MMOC still lets us have freedom of speech.
    Spamming the forums with irrelevant tripe isn’t freedom of speech.

  20. #6240
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deno View Post
    Well, it wasn't really toxicity or anything, nor it was intended to be. It was a banter at your state when some mods expanded the helf threads, which honestly was ridiculous. Especially with the way you go against people, I think you should be able to take some banter when someone does it to you .
    I wasn't calling you nor your post toxic, I was talking about the US High Elf threads.

    I find it funny when people get so defensive when I'm not calling them out at all or even mentioning them in particular

    If I have something to say about you in particular or someone else I will plainly state that, just as I have with others

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