1. #6241
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    As I said, it's useless because you still presume to exalt your biased opinion over all available evidence in game and out.

    Present actual facts and I'll see what you have, but if you persist in saying the developers don't know what they are talking about but you do, do not expect me to treat your claims with any measure of seriousness.

    Until such time as you do that, nothing has been 'debunked'.
    Hear me out dude, it is you who is maximizing the bits of the discussion, is not about devs not knowing what they talk about, the point we said they don't hold by itself is the population, devs know about warcraft, ones more than others, but don't come here to say that i say they don't know what they are talking about just for pointing a pair of flaws, stop twisting the words, stop being so blinded to your own desires.

    Tons of examples ingame were presented in this thread, is not my fault that you didn't take them, not my problem at all, only yours.

    It's me who is making a sin taking you seriously repeating the same facts again and again while you evade them because those don't fit your view, again and again and again.

    You even came here saying that you didn't saw a HE in your whole alliance leveling experience like if your personal experience is somwehat important. Or coming here saying that is easy to outnumber HE population without backup while still claiming that population is still important when it has been proven that it isn't. Or claiming that developer's word is the only and immovable truth.

    I don't even know if you are here for not wanting HE anymore, it currently seems like a seek for attention, you are not being honest in your claims and you are abusing people with weak arguments or attitude, and this is garbage because we can't use the thread for discuss about the matter, it is currently used for place a battle between anti and pro, and that doesn't give anything constructive, if you want to be against HE at least try to be goddamn honest with your points.

  2. #6242
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Firstly, if it was about the lore and not the skin colour then why the heck have pro-high elfers basically only provided ideas and input on how to make HIGH ELFS playable??? I've seen barely any input and suggestions from pro-high elfers on how to progress the high elf story via the void elfs... all I see is ""wah wah we wanted high elfs, not grape elfs". So, tell me again how light skinned pretty elfs on the alliance wasn't the agenda?
    Light skinned Elves was always the agenda.

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761606896

    This links to the Unofficial Void Elf discussion part 11, with links to the other, earlier threads on the front page. The creator of the first thread was Alurna, the author of the High Elf Manifesto that did the rounds for a few months. Posters present in the unofficial void elf discussions would later show up in the High Elf discussions on the official forums.

    These threads were created in an ultimately vain attempt to get Blizzard to 'improve' Void Elves. And by improve Void Elves, they meant adding normal skin tones to Void Elves. Enough players said in that thread that normal skin tones would be an acceptable 'compromise' for them that I came to the conclusion that for the vast majority of pro high elfers, the lore truly is irrelevant.

    After all, a normal looking Void Elf (indistinguishable from a Blood Elf) would still be edgy, still be emo, still be messing with dark powers and all that nonsense I've seen people complain about as to why Void Elves are unacceptable but as long as they have caucasian skin tones all is forgiven.

    Maybe some players really, truly just want Alliance High Elves for the lore. But I guarantee you that is probably a tiny minority. Anyone who posted in those threads asking for normal skin tones for Void Elves is basically admitting it's not about the lore at all. It's not even about the theme. It's about the aesthetic.

  3. #6243
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Enough players said in that thread that normal skin tones would be an acceptable 'compromise' for them that I came to the conclusion that for the vast majority of pro high elfers, the lore truly is irrelevant
    With a Mag'har orc you can say that you came from Outland or that you lived in Durotar all these years if you don't use certain emotes, you can't say that from a Void Elf.

    And claiming that wanting something does make people admit anything is only your own damn perception, not reality, and while it may be true for somebody is not universal.

    These threads are not still alive just for a goddamn look you know?
    Last edited by Aldo Hawk; 2018-05-30 at 10:59 PM.

  4. #6244
    Pit Lord Sigxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Maybe some players really, truly just want Alliance High Elves for the lore. But I guarantee you that is probably a tiny minority. Anyone who posted in those threads asking for normal skin tones for Void Elves is basically admitting it's not about the lore at all. It's not even about the theme. It's about the aesthetic.
    Thing is, even if it was the case that they wanted to play them for the Lore... I'm fairly sure you can still play a Void Elf who was a high elf, got tainted, and now touched by the void. But could still consider itself part of the Silver Covenant (Unless it's a big no-no for Void Elves being part of it).

  5. #6245
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    With a Mag'har orc you can say that you came from Outland or that you lived in Durotar all these years if you don't use certain emotes, you can't say that from a Void Elf.
    You can just as easily rp a void elf who was from the silver covenant..

  6. #6246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    You can just as easily rp a void elf who was from the silver covenant..
    Void Elves are part of the Silver Covenant?

    Big news!!

  7. #6247
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Void Elves are part of the Silver Covenant?

    Big news!!
    The allied race Mag'har came from outland or durotar?

    Big news!!

    I said you could rp a silver covenant void elf.. just like you can rp a mag'har from outland...

  8. #6248
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    The allied race Mag'har came from outland or durotar?

    Big news!!

    I said you could rp a silver covenant void elf.. just like you can rp a mag'har from outland...
    Ren'dorei aren't Silver Covenant members, Mag'har orcs are just orcs with brown skin.

    If you don't see the problem here is not my fucking fault.

  9. #6249
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Ren'dorei aren't Silver Covenant members, Mag'har orcs are just orcs with brown skin.

    If you don't see the problem here is not my fucking fault.
    Calm down buttercup, no need to get angry.

    The allied race Mag'har orcs are not from Outland or from Durotar.. they are from AU Draenor.

    You originally stated that you could play a Mag'har and say they came from Outland. I responded by saying you could play a Void Elf and pretend they were from the Silver Covenant... which is no different to your statement. What's the issue?

  10. #6250
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Calm down buttercup, no need to get angry.

    The allied race Mag'har orcs are not from Outland or from Durotar.. they are from AU Draenor.

    You originally stated that you could play a Mag'har and say they came from Outland. I responded by saying you could play a Void Elf and pretend they were from the Silver Covenant... which is no different to your statement. What's the issue?
    The issue is that you are doing a wrong comparison and treating it as a truth my dear, try to be a bit aware of what you are talking about.

  11. #6251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    I just think that when people start to almost demand that they should be playable
    It's annoying, as long as You are convenient people should not have such expectations. But in the relation between company making game for profit, and customers there is no reason for much sentiment. If people feel, that they are not allowed to experience the game in way they would like the most - they in fact should speak about it.

    Of course - It would be a lot easier, if everyone was creative here, and do not just stop at looking at High Elves and simply demand them playable.
    But -

    First thing not everyone can. I - as for example - had never time to push own graphic skills on any serious level, despite being quite efficient in manual drawing. Second - with all due respect for all great fan made concepts, by all people on the world, who are and always will be creative from their own internal need - not all have to be willing, to do for free work, for which already someone else is taking money here. At least not beyond point of extend they feel fine with.

    So in fact - it is perfectly fine, if someone is willing just to express support, or sign up under statement, that some specific ways of experiencing game are lacking, if that's all they are willing to. After all - that scale of interest matters. Even if it is, not the most pleasant thing, to being witness of that scale. As well as matters ensuring that feedback is understandable and accurate. I doubt that this threads can disappear, if expectations expressed in them will not be properly recognized and addressed.

    As for saying that there is no need for more elves - Blizzards decisions since Legion suggest, that they are aware of need of recreating success of Blood Elves, even if they look like being at least partially oblivious of it's source. After all - population of one of the factions can not be based solely on one playable race. So we should expect more elves in future anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Welp you just knockef soellforce up on my backlog list..still not started em even though i have had all 3 for ages lol
    I played just first part. And recall that game as almost as well as Warcraft 3. Very pleasant combination of RTS and RPG, nice diverse, and very classically portrayed races to play. Just maybe units too similar to each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalSyn View Post
    @FlubberPuddy - I'm an anti-heifer, but I'm NOT anti a fair skinned, traditional fantasy elf race being added to the alliance. I just don't think it should be high elves as they currently exist.
    Tell us then, how would You like solve the case? By not searching closest points of attachment in game world?

    Having in mind, of course, that already such introductions as Void Elves, Sethrak and Vulpera become criticized as so called "asspulls".
    Last edited by mmoc5cb4a68957; 2018-05-30 at 11:44 PM.

  12. #6252
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    The issue is that you are doing a wrong comparison and treating it as a truth my dear, try to be a bit aware of what you are talking about.
    Wrong comparison? How? lol....

  13. #6253
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Firstly, if it was about the lore and not the skin colour then why the heck have pro-high elfers basically only provided ideas and input on how to make HIGH ELFS playable??? I've seen barely any input and suggestions from pro-high elfers on how to progress the high elf story via the void elfs... all I see is ""wah wah we wanted high elfs, not grape elfs". So, tell me again how light skinned pretty elfs on the alliance wasn't the agenda?

    Secondly, with regard to the royal guard:

    Little is known of what exactly the Royal Guard's duties were, aside from the stated goal of defending high elven society. Due to their name, it is possible that they served as the personal guard force of the royal family, which would also lend credence to defending Regent Lord Theron. This is from https://wow.gamepedia.com/Royal_Guard_(Quel%27Thalas).

    I can't find anywhere the states the royal guard were specifically paladins. If I've missed it please let me know. So, stating the royal guard were paladins is likely pure speculation... or in other words 'reaching' to suit a certain agenda (ie. muh elf paladins on the blue side!!). The only solid lore I can find on elf paladins is the order of blood knights.

    In your own words, ignorance of the lore doesn't make something a reality... or in this case. head canon lore doesn't make something a reality.
    You sound so illogical, "why are pro-high elfers wanting to make high elves playable!?" Why don't they love not High Elves?!! Are you understanding yourself when you create these sentences?

    You're basically asking "why are people only pushing for what they want and not what I/others want?" Uhhh...because that's what they want!! Duhh

    And I literally share with you from the Paladin races page, an excerpt showing that Royal Guard had Paladins right here:

    "Blood elves were once high elves allied with the humans like the dwarves. Like the two others, high elves also believed in the Holy Light. A few were members of the Silver Hand, such as Mehlar Dawnblade, while others belonged to the high elven Royal Guard."

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Paladin_races

    Can you be any more daft in your responses man??? It's taken from the Paladin Races page, it's all about Paladins. And I bolded where Royal Guard had Paladins! Not only that you are ignoring the sentences before where it says "a FEW were members of the Silver Hand, SUCH AS Mehlar Dawnblade" it's not stating Mehlar was the ONLY High Elf Paladin.

    Jeezus dude, it's comments like these which make me just outright ignore further questioning. You obviously are ignorant of the proofs even when they're shown plainly to your face.

    And not knowing exactly the duties of the Royal Guard doesn't preclude them from having Paladins in the first place, not that this point even matters. The Royal Guard existed before Blood Elves and was a High Elf thing and the Paladin Races page describes that some Paladins belonged to the Royal Guard - a High Elf thing - that alone should be proof enough High Elf Paladins existed.
    Last edited by FlubberPuddy; 2018-05-31 at 12:52 AM.

  14. #6254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    The issue is that you are doing a wrong comparison and treating it as a truth my dear, try to be a bit aware of what you are talking about.
    Uh, it's a great comparison. If we're talking lore, if this entire discussion is really just about lore (lol), Blizzard didn't give us the MU mag'har people were asking for, we got this completely new group of mag'har from an alternate universe that's also somehow from the future. RPing as a regular mag'har from MU Garadar, the ones we've been seeing as Horde NPCs and fighting beside for years (does this story sound familiar? ), is lore-breaking.

    It's actually very similar to the high elf/void elf situation. RPers can and already are writing around this, saying their void elf was a Silver Covenant member or w/e, but strictly speaking your AU mag'har was not an MU mag'har, and your void elf was not a high elf.

    I can pretend my AU mag'har was a former Garrosh loyalist, and you can pretend your void elf was a Silver Covenant member, but if lore is all that matters then neither of us should be happy. If lore is the core of the issue, that looks don't matter and void elves only suck because they're canonically derived from the group of Thalassian elves I dislike (Silvermoon) and not the group of Thalassian elves I like (Silver Covenant), then mag'har are in the exact same boat.

    But I think it's all bullshit. I think it's much simpler, much shallower, and comes back to what Obelisk was saying. As we saw in the original void elf megathreads - before the same people running them wrote off Velves as a failure and turned them into high elf megathreads - the overwhelming request was simply that they look normal. They wanted their elf to be Alleria, caucasian and pretty and blonde. Quite literally a blood elf with blue eyes.

    And honestly? So did I. I like my elves pretty, what can I say. I'd love my void elf (pretty though she is) to look like Alleria, her leader and inspiration. Heck, I still hope Blizzard comes out and says the Velf ritual is replicable and Locus-Walker is indeed making a new generation of Alleria-type void elves from the high elf and blood elf acolytes in Telogrus Rift, opening up some "normal" customization for Velves.

    But I wouldn't want Blizzard to waste another race slot on what could easily be a skin color for void elves. No more than I'd demand they add brown orcs a second time because the AU mag'har have a weird backstory.
    Last edited by mmoca98142c293; 2018-05-31 at 01:06 AM.

  15. #6255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elari View Post
    Uh, it's a great comparison. If we're talking lore, if this entire discussion is really just about lore (lol), Blizzard didn't give us the MU mag'har people were asking for, we got this completely new group of mag'har from an alternate universe that's also somehow from the future. RPing as a regular mag'har from MU Garadar, the ones we've been seeing as Horde NPCs and fighting beside for years (does this story sound familiar? ), is lore-breaking.

    It's actually very similar to the high elf/void elf situation. RPers can and already are writing around this, saying their void elf was a Silver Covenant member or w/e, but strictly speaking your AU mag'har was not an MU mag'har, and your void elf was not a high elf.

    I can pretend my AU mag'har was a former Garrosh loyalist, and you can pretend your void elf was a Silver Covenant member, but if lore is all that matters then neither of us should be happy. If lore is the core of the issue, that looks don't matter and void elves only suck because they're canonically derived from the group of Thalassian elves I dislike (Silvermoon) and not the group of Thalassian elves I like (Silver Covenant), then mag'har are in the exact same boat.

    But I think it's all bullshit. I think it's much simpler, much shallower, and comes back to what Obelisk was saying. As we saw in the original void elf megathreads - before the same people running them wrote off Velves as a failure and turned them into high elf megathreads - the overwhelming request was simply that they look normal. They wanted their elf to be Alleria, caucasian and pretty and blonde. Quite literally a blood elf with blue eyes.

    And honestly? So did I. I like my elves pretty, what can I say. I'd love my void elf to look like Alleria, her leader and inspiration. Heck, I still hope Blizzard comes out and says the Velf ritual is replicable and Locus-Walker is indeed making a new generation of Alleria-type void elves from the high elf and blood elf acolytes in Telogrus Rift, opening up some "normal" customization for Velves.

    But I wouldn't want Blizzard to waste another race slot on what could easily be a skin color for void elves. No more than I'd demand they add brown orcs a second time because the AU mag'har have a weird backstory.
    The developers, Ion in particular even refers to Void Elves as a type of Blood Elf. So therefore, people can headcanon all they want. At least Mag'har can actually LOOK like MU Mag'har.

    Void Elf players RPing as a High Elf can't even do that.

    And if you're going to say "oh stop focusing on looks" the entire purpose of Allied Races is all about looks. Lore is just a sprinkling.

    But Void Elves, currently, are through and through Blood Elves. If you want to say "oh just RP" then people could've just RPed Dark Iron, or Lightforged, or Highmountain, or Mag'har.

    It should be blatantly obvious why the "just RP" shtick doesn't cut it. Let's all just RP we're dragons then, no need for any new dragon race. Let's just all RP that our goblins are Vulpera and Worgen can be SNEKS.

    Undermines the entire Allied Races system.

    There is a huge difference between something being supported by the game, and something that isn't. And right now playable High Elves isn't. No amount of RP will bring that into reality.

    Also yeah it really shows me the character of people who pretty much can look like the races they've always wanted, yet want to nitpick little ass details such as not being MU vs AU.

    It's like the whole Nightborne thing with the "omg their eyes so round" they don't like their 'npc" at least they look damn 99% similar. Jeezus some people.

    And the reason people switched from the Void Elf threads to High Elf threads is because those people were fed up with trying to compromise and said "you know what, let's just ask for what we really want - High Elves" and those why those discussion threads were born and Void Elf threads were left to rot.

    To truly show Blizzard, nah all these "Void Elf threads" for "Void Elf discussion" it's not that people are so interested in Void Elves, it's that people wanted High Elves in the first place and got some unknown asspull elves out of nowhere.
    Last edited by FlubberPuddy; 2018-05-31 at 01:08 AM.

  16. #6256
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Wrong comparison? How? lol....
    It's a shame that i have to explain that a Mag'har is a brown orc that you can role as any kind or brown orc in existance while a void elf is not a high elf by any means.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elari View Post
    Uh, it's a great comparison. If we're talking lore, if this entire discussion is really just about lore (lol), Blizzard didn't give us the MU mag'har people were asking for, we got this completely new group of mag'har from an alternate universe that's also somehow from the future. RPing as a regular mag'har from MU Garadar, the ones we've been seeing as Horde NPCs and fighting beside for years (does this story sound familiar? ), is lore-breaking.

    It's actually very similar to the high elf/void elf situation. RPers can and already are writing around this, saying their void elf was a Silver Covenant member or w/e, but strictly speaking your AU mag'har was not an MU mag'har, and your void elf was not a high elf.

    I can pretend my AU mag'har was a former Garrosh loyalist, and you can pretend your void elf was a Silver Covenant member, but if lore is all that matters then neither of us should be happy. If lore is the core of the issue, that looks don't matter and void elves only suck because they're canonically derived from the group of Thalassian elves I dislike (Silvermoon) and not the group of Thalassian elves I like (Silver Covenant), then mag'har are in the exact same boat.

    But I think it's all bullshit. I think it's much simpler, much shallower, and comes back to what Obelisk was saying. As we saw in the original void elf megathreads - before the same people running them wrote off Velves as a failure and turned them into high elf megathreads - the overwhelming request was simply that they look normal. They wanted their elf to be Alleria, caucasian and pretty and blonde. Quite literally a blood elf with blue eyes.

    And honestly? So did I. I like my elves pretty, what can I say. I'd love my void elf (pretty though she is) to look like Alleria, her leader and inspiration. Heck, I still hope Blizzard comes out and says the Velf ritual is replicable and Locus-Walker is indeed making a new generation of Alleria-type void elves from the high elf and blood elf acolytes in Telogrus Rift, opening up some "normal" customization for Velves.

    But I wouldn't want Blizzard to waste another race slot on what could easily be a skin color for void elves. No more than I'd demand they add brown orcs a second time because the AU mag'har have a weird backstory.
    The void look of Void Elves locks them into a theme, the looks from a Mag'har doesn't, don't overcomplicate it, it's a crap what they did with Mag'har? yes, everyone expected those from Outland, but it doesn't stop you from having a Mag'har from Outland, at least pretending, you can't do that with a VE just because of how it looks.

    A silver covenant member being transformed into a Void Elf (don't forget Void Elves are ALL Blood Elves) is total headcanon.

    Vould be nice if they added to the VE lore a new way to transform elves into void elves and then present a group of FORMER HIGH ELVES being transformed into, that would give a good excuse, but is not comparable to a Mag'har where their looks aren't completely tied to the lore they asigned to them.

  17. #6257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elari View Post
    It's actually very similar to the high elf/void elf situation.
    Cosmic level of absurd...

    Mag'har are Mag'har - uncorrupted orcs by definition. Resonants of original orcish culture - no matter what world do they come from. Void Elves, when comes to term of themes and motifs are simple opposite of High Elf, opposite of classical elf niche. As it was stated in this thread before - You can not play void elf, without being actual practitioner of Void magic, controversial form of magic - by definition rejected by High Elves. You can not call Void Elf form of implementation of classic elven motifs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elari View Post
    the overwhelming request was simply that they look normal. They wanted their elf to be Alleria, caucasian and pretty and blonde. Quite literally a blood elf with blue eyes.
    If I like Allerias look just because she is caucasian, then answer my - why do You think I hate High Elven reskins of Sylvanas?
    Why did I criticized ideas of turning Quel'Thalas Alliance here, using such phrases like being disappointed of >>simple recoloring<<?
    Why would I straightly speak against so called normal skins for Void Elves?
    Why would I be against giving blue eyes to Blood Elves?
    Why was I arguing so much, that equating both Void Elves and Blood Elves with High Elves harms them, and do not allow to follow their core concepts?

    I will answer one of this questions for You - I hate Sylvanas reskins, cause they are so similar to current Blood Elves. They are easy to describe just by Ion's worlds - "majestic", and in fact - nothing more. Meanwhile Alleria - who was not character from the WC3, but WC2, still keeps in her appearance memory of the period when they were portrayed in the most classic way. The same memory, that pushes people to create Ranger themed concepts like ones in the beginning of this thread. I don't care existing lore at all, I care for current High Elves being a starting point for recreating classical elves, and reusing oldest Blizzard's elven concepts. And them being independently developed further in that tracks. I care about concepts, themes and niches fulfilled by different types of elves. And I know absolutely for sure, that as long, as this lacking point is not fulfilled, identifies of Blood, Void or Night Elves will undergo further erosion, cause of pushing them and extending to become appealing for people interested in classical elves. What makes them all tasteless jokes.

    Yes, it counts also for Night Elves growing pumpkins instead being warrior amazons. It's connected vessels system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elari View Post
    Quite literally a blood elf with blue eyes.
    If that was true, it would mean there is no Blood Elves in this game anymore. Ion's worlds are their tombstone, and people like Obelisk are dancing on their grave, pushing their buried uniqueness straight further in the ground. If You can't even define them more precisely - they are finished.

    Blood Elves were once ambiguous, morally ambivalent, scared people, who made difficult choices. Under layer of their beauty, there were hidden wildness, danger and hunger for power, even cruelty. They were like Drows in disguise. That was the Elves, who once get me truly impressed, as one of the most unique known to me elven implementation.

    Not a f*****g caucasian blondes with no character and no properties. I want erosion of the (all) elven concepts reversed. And all elements of the puzzle back to their place. If You wan't to play innocent, pure elf, with no hard story, any controversies and moral ambivalence - It's Alliance, that should wait for You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elari View Post
    what could easily be a skin color for void elves
    For You. That does not mean this is everything what other people can see in them.
    Last edited by mmoc5cb4a68957; 2018-05-31 at 04:10 AM.

  18. #6258
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post

    You're basically asking "why are people only pushing for what they want and not what I/others want?" Uhhh...because that's what they want!! Duhh
    Which goes back to what I originally stated... some people want playable pretty light skinned elfs on the alliance BUT they don't consider the effect it could have on others (such as faction pride...which you know...is a CORE part of this game). They then get upset because these other players express their concern about blurring faction lines, even though they have a legitimate reason to be concerned. Their concerns are then normally responded to with some form of attack (whether it be finger wagging, nasty comments, arrogant or snide remarks, stubborness, etc...). Not all pro-high elf supporters respond negatively, but from reading multiple threads on the topic it's safe to conclude that a vast majority normally beat their chests when a counter-argument is put forward to them.

    You claimed initially that you cared about the lore progression of high elfs not the aesthetics, but now you're saying the opposite. Make up your mind, is it about the lore or is it about the aesthetics??

    If it's about the lore then how about you offer up suggestions as to how blizz could progress the high elf story via void elfs.. or separately (but if separately it should not come at the expense of or detract from the void elf story progression).

    If it's about the aesthetics, then expect plenty more push back from anti-high elfers and blizz. Although your bias toward playable high elfs might cloud your vision, the reality is that requesting the aesthetic will impact many others faction pride/identity...which again...is a CORE aspect of the game. I know this may be hard for you and others like you to accept, but don't act like a victim when you experience push back or are presented with counter-arguments. Also, stop claiming that any counter-arguments have been debunked....because they haven't (regardless of your head canon) and Blizz agrees too.

    As long as you and others keep requesting playable blue eyed blood elfs on the alliance, expect resistance. Your request literally comes at the expense of others game experience. Requesting NPC high elf progression via void elfs is more appropriate, and you'll likely experience less resistance on the forums if you focus on that agenda. If you want to play a light skinned elf, the Horde is waiting for you. If I want to play a short, stocky dwarf with a mighty beard, the Alliance is waiting for me.

    Also, regarding your paladin comments (which by the way are truly reaching)... here's an excerpt from the very same link you gave me.

    High elves paladins are rare,[8] but do exist. The few high elf paladins and priests proved invaluable in the Third War

    Night elf paladins are rare, with only a few being seen in game.

    Notice how both night elf and high elf paladins existed but were rare???

    If I apply your logic that lorewise high elfs were paladins because of a couple rare) cases, then with that same breath we can also say that lorewise night elfs were paladins too. This is not the case, you know it and I know it too...

  19. #6259
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Which goes back to what I originally stated... some people want playable pretty light skinned elfs on the alliance BUT they don't consider the effect it could have on others (such as faction pride...which you know...is a CORE part of this game).
    Think about what You have written for a moment - creating new light skinned elven race, would be "harming to the faction pride". But creating four different elven races in all shades of blue and purple is no harm for any faction, right? This casts rather bad light on the source of this pride.

    No. People don't want High Elves just because they are pretty. They want High Elves, because they are unsatisfied of lacking classical elves in game. It's much more than being pretty - it's following references, and tropes that are included in "High Elf" name not by Blizzard's definition, but by common meaning of this name.

    And not every light skinned elf is archetypal classical elf. As many people, including me, do not recognize as such Blood Elves in any way.

  20. #6260
    Quote Originally Posted by JdRobespierre View Post
    Think about what You have written for a moment - creating new light skinned elven race, would be "harming to the faction pride". But creating four different elven races in all shades of blue and purple is no harm for any faction, right? This casts rather bad light on the source of this pride.

    No. People don't want High Elves just because they are pretty. They want High Elves, because they are unsatisfied of lacking classical elves in game. It's much more than being pretty - it's following references, and tropes that are included in "High Elf" name not by Blizzard's definition, but by common meaning of this name.
    Blizz have created four different elven races with various colours and shades to provide the player base a variety of options each with own uniqueness, flavour and allegiance. Adding high elfs would detract from this uniqueness (mainly limited visual distinction between high and blood elf) and as such detract from the Horde (more so than what the existing playable elf races do).

    The 'classical' elfs you are referring to may have existed in WC II, but in WC III they became what we call today the blood elfs (and yes a small minority ala the current high elfs did not join them). But, Blizz chose to take this 'classical' elf concept in other direction... that direction being the blood elfs and now the void elfs. This new direction of classical elfs has become a core part of the Horde, with another flavour of them being added to the alliance. To many, adding high elfs would detract from the direction Blizz chose to take them and also detract from the faction pride that has now been established with them over the past decade.

    WoW focuses heavily on faction identity, so any matter (such as high elfs) that could blur this identity needs to be seriously considered. In this case, Blizz considered it a risk to blurring faction lines and consequently responded in the recent Q&A. Anti-high elfers recognised the risks too, and have expressed their concerns. Unfortunately, a few individuals on both sides don't like it when someone doesn't agree with them so hostilities have gradually risen over the last couple of months. Unfortunately, I'm guilty of falling into this trap of throwing hostile missile verbals back and forth, and so are many others in this forum. So with that, I appreciate your respectful counter-comments toward me.

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