Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Deleted]

Blizz have created four different elven races with various colours and shades to provide the player base a variety of options each with own uniqueness, flavour and allegiance.

And this is exactly, what should be continued in independent High Elf development, as proposed on the begging of this thread skin colors differs as much from the Blood Elves, as Nightborne differs from Night Elves.

The 'classical' elfs you are referring to may have existed in WC II

But they are just way of portraying elves - in behavior, character, look (not limited to physicality). And moreover - that niche extends further, than what was shown in WC2, as this is just best possible starting point.

But, Blizz chose to take this 'classical' elf concept in other direction... that direction being the blood elfs and now the void elfs.

Neither of whom are classical anymore, as Void Elves for example take nearly all look from Warhammer's dark elves, and are by lore practitioners of forbidden magic, and so - they are on totally different territory now.

but in WC III they became what we call today the blood elfs (and yes a small minority ala the current high elfs did not join them).

And got huge part of story time, as close parallel stories are not harming faction divisions, but strengthening them and making more interesting, more attention catching. Constant appearance of High Elves on screen is in fact proof that Blizzard to some point acknowledges it.

Only identify that is endangered here is identify of other elves - like Blood Elves, if they are going to be further equated with High Elves, with whom they were never identical in way of portraying - when comes to themes, character and behavior. They were very close parallels, and so it is to this day.

Unfortunately, a few individuals on both sides don't like it when someone doesn't agree with them so hostilities have gradually risen over the last couple of months.

There are people who are here for discussion, and there are people who are here for crusade.

When people currently opposing to High Elves implementation were honest, and willing to listen about what exactly High Elves fans want to get - I had no troubles to convince them, that in fact a compromise field is huge, as implementing High Elves:

- Do not requires Thalasian elf model - in fact I stated, that imho this model is to aggressive in poses, and Nightborne skeleton would be better,
- Do not requires identical skins, as proposed on beginning of this thread are different, and still consistent with classical elven themes,
- Do not requires taking anything from the Horde, as bases mostly on unused and useless for current Blood Elf development direction motifs,
- Do not have to use the same architecture, as for example - I proposed here ideas of new settlements, created as rediscovered hidden refugee/exiles camps etc.
- Do require a story, and independent development, what creates occasion to highlight the differences (new lifestyle, more frequent crossbreeding, new solutions of balancing nature and arcane problem etc).

And still can be consistent with classical elven themes, in ways Blood Elves and Void Elves can not.

Also have few bonuses:

- Allows continue so called "mirroring" - close paralell storytelling, just with more highlighted differences, aside of independent development,
- Allows, or rather forces Blizzard to keep Blood Elves, Void Elves and Night Elves in niches close to their own core concepts, stops them from eroding, For Example - Void Elves released from task of being appealing to High Elven fans, can be pushed more in dark elven territory and stop being just silly joke,
- Stimulates discussion about fair share of elven motifs - I proposed here runic tattoos for Blood Elven faces, and anthers for Night Elves, as new customization options, while old school ranger tattoos for High Elves.

Blizzard in fact considered answering to High Elven demands, but failed in recognizing what people want. They just took blue eyes and Thalasian model, and pushed it as far from classical elf territory, as it was actually possible. However - after such move it is very hard to defend statement, that classical elf - in fact much less blurring lines can not be added.

Blizzard's answer in Q&A is just "we have no idea what to do with them". Well - if they do not tried to find out, or got distorted feedback, then it's not surprising. That however doesn't mean, there are in fact no good ways of solving this case.

PS: I might also loose temper a little, when someone tells me, that elves are defined just by look, not by their relation to archetypes.

[Aldo Hawk]

@Strippling Well, seeing that you don't want to continue the goddamn hostility of this thread i'm going to answer you in the most kind way i can.

You are concerned by the possibility of damaging the faction identities, but i can only say to you that there are ways to make HE different from BE when we talk about looks, may it be throught hairstyles/hairstyles with feathers or various decorations, jewelry, optional warpaint (with somekind of glow even throught armor), facial hair/facial hair with feathers or various decorations, slightly modified faces, or even restricting them the tanner skin options of some range (not so much) and giving two pairs of paler tones.

I would have missed something, but what i wrote can be seen in fan art inspired in Alleria and how HE were and are presented in wow, and that for me is enought to diferentiate them visually, because lorewise it's yet clear the differentiation.

There is an important thing about the discussion. That this is a mix of lore and looks, while the lore already allows such thing as alliance HE, the looks is what makes people worried, lore should only be taken when speaking of looks, because otherway we end in dishonesty and headcanon.

After all this you (or others) may think: 'Well, it seems that this is all about looks then'. I can only answer one thing: Yes and no, while looks is what attract some people the lore is what is keeping this thing alive, some of the people here who supports HE would never play one if they get added (not every HE supporter is alliance for example, and some alliance supporting it would not play one), HE were the obvious choose in the first place and we got VE with weak excuses, that is what fueled all this discussion apart from having the new allied race system, we respect the lore and want the factions to be the most complete as they can be, me personally would not be here asking for it if HE were not alliance in the first place, but they are, and they deserve a second look.

I don't expect everyone to agree with this, but what i expect understanding and not just finger pointing and blaming for wanting something.

Edit: I would even accept VE being formed by some HE, that would be shitty but at least they would be HE from the alliance in the alliance.

Me, as a horde player, feel more insulted about VE being formed of BE than if in the first place they were formed of HE, and i would not care at all if they added HE, i would be totally fine to see that.

[FlubberPuddy]

Just bravo post @JdRobespierre really sums it up.
@Strippling you are very incoherent right now. By your own notion it's okay to have 3+ variations of blue/purple elves (that's exactly what Nightborne and Void Elves are) yet for some strange reason there can only be one fair-ish skin type elf?

I advocate for what makes sense in the game. Alliance High Elves make sense, them being playable make sense. The only reason they aren't right now is because Blizzard considers it to "blur faction lines" and honestly it's more what Jd said, Blizzard has no idea what to do with them. So they just keep Alliance High Elves mosey-ing on along.

I have already stated and restated for you that if Void Elves were not just Blood Elves and indeed the major High Elf story got sucked into Void Elves then I wouldn't advocate for playable High Elves because then one can see the High Elf story going forward is Void Elf story.

That's not what happened though, Void Elves are entirely Blood Elves and even the newest lore that came out about them from Magister Umbric continues to state and show that they're ALL exiled Silvermoon Blood Elves that are part of his crew. It's head canon to think any Void Elves are High Elves right now.

Could this change in the future? Absolutely, but that's not the case right now.

Besides, it wouldn't even make sense for the majority of High Elves to even become Void Elves by their own admission they rejected the Fel, a dark form of magic, they wouldn't then just all of a sudden change their minds about that and be happy using Void magic.

What you're trying to do is make Void Elves more appealing to High Elf fans like me, but I'll tell you this: I don't give a shit about Void Elves, exiled Blood Elves are not what I wanted. I don't even like the Blood Elves on Horde as they are, not because they're Horde but because they're the archetypical stuck up bitchy elves that think they're better than the rest.

Alliance High Elves admonished those themes when they left Quel'thalas, the way Elisande berates them is pretty much how Blood Elves would berate them too.

This whole notion of "Lor'themar allows all elves to pilgrimage to Sunwell" okay but everyone's taking it to mean that ALL High Elves go to the Sunwell. That's such a dumb line of thinking.

It's more like this: You have a huge family feud and the family splits into two groups, one smaller and one bigger, the Head of the Household of the bigger group says "I know we have our differences but the house is always welcome to you guys" That doesn't negate all the animosity between most of the group members of each split family.

It's stupid to think just because it's allowed, that then all High Elves must be doing that. Nowhere in the game does it show this, players are just blowing this out of proportion.

If I'm considered a lame ass dude that no one wants to be around, but I have an awesome gaming setup, and say anyone can come play, I bet most people still won't come because they'd have to deal with my lame ass self while they're playing my awesome gaming setup.

Hope these examples explain well enough, that just because he allows it, doesn't mean it's actually happening. The pilgrimage's to the Sunwell didn't stop the Dalaran Purge from happening basically.

Anyways that was a tangent, but basically I don't give a shit about Void Elves so I'm not going to waste my time "trying to make them better" there's already people that enjoy them for what they are, and the new lore that keeps coming keeps showing that these elves are through and through Blood Elves.

All it does is actually reveal that all Blood Elves weren't so gung ho about the Horde, and that leaves one to wonder how many current Horde Blood Elves are also not as loyal but feigning their loyalty.

And about the Paladin bit: Seriously man, that section that you are quoting is talking about Post Blood Elf/High Elf split. My mention of High Elf Paladins being in the Royal Guard comes before that, before Blood Elves even existed. High Elf Paladins being members of the Silver Hand, and other High Elf Paladins being members of the Royal Guard comes BEFORE Blood Elves even exist.

The section you're quoting is about current day groups, that's why High Elves, Half-elves, and Night Elves are mentioned. And why they mention current High Elf Paladin NPCs in that section that exist in WoW.

I'm going to let this be probably one of the last times, if not the last time, I spend this much time trying to explain stuff to you because I hate long-winded posts both writing and reading them.

If you can't grasp it by now then Idk what else to say. I'll let others who are better at it like Jd handle it instead.

[Byleth]

Tell us then, how would You like solve the case? By not searching closest points of attachment in game world?

Having in mind, of course, that already such introductions as Void Elves, Sethrak and Vulpera become criticized as so called "asspulls".

I've already given my stance on that. Please refer back to previous posts before calling me out.

Also, I have never referred to allied race as ass-pulls, I actually hate that term. But yes, I do believe something fresh and new could be added relatively quickly to fill the gap. Blizz have proven they can do it.

- - - Updated - - -

When people currently opposing to High Elves implementation were honest, and willing to listen about what exactly High Elves fans want to get - I had no troubles to convince them, that in fact a compromise field is huge, as implementing High Elves:

- Do not requires Thalasian elf model - in fact I stated, that imho this model is to aggressive in poses, and Nightborne skeleton would be better,
- Do not requires identical skins, as proposed on beginning of this thread are different, and still consistent with classical elven themes,
- Do not requires taking anything from the Horde, as bases mostly on unused and useless for current Blood Elf development direction motifs,
- Do not have to use the same architecture, as for example - I proposed here ideas of new settlements, created as rediscovered hidden refugee/exiles camps etc.
- Do require a story, and independent development, what creates occasion to highlight the differences (new lifestyle, more frequent crossbreeding, new solutions of balancing nature and arcane problem etc).

And still can be consistent with classical elven themes, in ways Blood Elves and Void Elves can not.

This is pretty much how I fell on the matter. Except for the Nightborne skeleton, that part is just weird.

I'm pretty much fine with anything that does not use the Thalasian model, even if it's labelled a high elf.

[FlubberPuddy]

As long as you and others keep requesting playable blue eyed blood elfs on the alliance, expect resistance.

Also, this is literally what Void Elves are. So if that's truly all people were asking for then Void Elves should've been the huge runaway success and we'd have tons of High Elf fans praising Blizzard for finally after so many long years requesting it, adding High Elves.

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Edit: I would even accept VE being formed by some HE, that would be shitty but at least they would be HE from the alliance in the alliance.

Me, as a horde player, feel more insulted about VE being formed of BE than if in the first place they were formed of HE, and i would not care at all if they added HE, i would be totally fine to see that.

What's interesting is that this is pretty much known feedback since even the Unofficial Void Elf threads. Blizzard is often times quick to respond to feedback when it's pretty blatant.

This would've been a very easy fix, they could've had Magister Umbric include or mention that Alliance High Elves turned into/making more Void Elves with their newest lines from him.

But they didn't.

They kept it only to Void Elves being Blood Elves.

It can maybe point to potentially Blizzard wanting to keep High Elves available for something later.

Because everyone's been saying what you've commented as well and even anti-helfers would consider this to be an easy fix through that way. Yet they didn't do that, why not?

They changed stuff like Sylvanas's letter in Stormsong Valley when people were so offended by "how evil it blatantly makes her" so why not change the lines Umbric says?

[Garfurion]

What's interesting is that this is pretty much known feedback since even the Unofficial Void Elf threads. Blizzard is often times quick to respond to feedback when it's pretty blatant.

This would've been a very easy fix, they could've had Magister Umbric include or mention that Alliance High Elves turned into/making more Void Elves with their newest lines from him.

But they didn't.

They kept it only to Void Elves being Blood Elves.

It can maybe point to potentially Blizzard wanting to keep High Elves available for something later.

Because everyone's been saying what you've commented as well and even anti-helfers would consider this to be an easy fix through that way. Yet they didn't do that, why not?

They changed stuff like Sylvanas's letter in Stormsong Valley when people were so offended by "how evil it blatantly makes her" so why not change the lines Umbric says?

Having some no-name High Elves willingly submitting to transformation into Void Elves doesn't really make sense though and it will take any High Elf studying the void like Alleria did years before the can master it (and they would end up looking like normal High Elves like Alleria).

They could have based the Void Elves on Auric Sunchaser and Outland High Elves being forcefully transformed into Void Elves but Blizzard either didn't consider this or the Void Elves being former Blood Elves will turn out to be an important story arc (e.g. Umbric knowing how to disable Silvermoon's defenses)

The Silver Covenant could not be used as the basis for Void Elves since it would have meant transforming Vereesa into a Void Elf and Blizzard needs her at the moment as the "normal" Windrunner sister.

[Aldo Hawk]

Having some no-name High Elves willingly submitting to transformation into Void Elves doesn't really make sense though and it will take any High Elf studying the void like Alleria did years before the can master it (and they would end up looking like normal High Elves like Alleria).

They could have based the Void Elves on Auric Sunchaser and Outland High Elves being forcefully transformed into Void Elves but Blizzard either didn't consider this or the Void Elves being former Blood Elves will turn out to be an important story arc (e.g. Umbric knowing how to disable Silvermoon's defenses)

The Silver Covenant could not be used as the basis for Void Elves since it would have meant transforming Vereesa into a Void Elf and Blizzard needs her at the moment as the "normal" Windrunner sister.

Is the Ban'dinoriel active again?

[Obelisk Kai]

Hear me out dude, it is you who is maximizing the bits of the discussion, is not about devs not knowing what they talk about, the point we said they don't hold by itself is the population, devs know about warcraft, ones more than others, but don't come here to say that i say they don't know what they are talking about just for pointing a pair of flaws, stop twisting the words, stop being so blinded to your own desires.

Tons of examples ingame were presented in this thread, is not my fault that you didn't take them, not my problem at all, only yours.

I ask for evidence and I again get references to nebulous examples you say you've presented 'again and again and again'. You have provided no such examples, you merely declared the population issue no longer matters. And why? Because Void Elves must have a low population as well and if they are viable, then High Elves are viable.

On the one hand I have four sources saying the Alliance High Elf population is extremely low, three of those sources stating this is one of the reasons they aren't playable and two of which came after Blizzard introduced Void Elves. On the other hand, you have your 'examples' which are in truth based on your personal experience of the game and your subjective viewpoint. But a personal experience of the game isn't admissible from your perspective because, as you stated...

You even came here saying that you didn't saw a HE in your whole alliance leveling experience like if your personal experience is somwehat important.

Firstly, what I actually said was

The few High Elves I encountered stood out because I was specifically looking for this 'massive' High Elf presence within the Alliance. I encountered a few, but mostly related to the Silver Covenant as i expected.

So I never actually stated I encountered 'no' High Elves, merely that I only encountered a handful, that they were much rarer than the real Alliance races and that I encountered them where I expected to encounter them. My 'personal interpretation' is therefore consistent with in game lore and out of game word of god.

Or coming here saying that is easy to outnumber HE population without backup while still claiming that population is still important when it has been proven that it isn't. Or claiming that developer's word is the only and immovable truth.

You have provided no evidence that the population issue no longer matters. I can provide multiple sources stating that it is. Your counter argument is based on your subjective, personal interpretation but as I discussed earlier they shouldn't count.

My multiple sources beat your personal interpretation which, as you so helpfully suggested, isn't really important in the grand scheme of things.

I don't even know if you are here for not wanting HE anymore, it currently seems like a seek for attention, you are not being honest in your claims and you are abusing people with weak arguments or attitude, and this is garbage because we can't use the thread for discuss about the matter, it is currently used for place a battle between anti and pro, and that doesn't give anything constructive, if you want to be against HE at least try to be goddamn honest with your points.

My points are honest...although to be fair I don't quite get what you mean by that. After all, most of my points are backed up by rock solid evidence. Even on the population issue I can point to all those statements. All you do is to keep going on about how the developers aren't perfect, don't know what they are on about or aren't reliable.

The developer's word is the only truth. It is not immovable. But precisely because this is a fictional universe, the truth is what they say it is. If they change their minds that becomes the new truth. But on this issue, they haven't. And they've been remarkably consistent on it for fifteen years.

Frankly I find your attitude that you know the game better than the developers who created it and are currently working on it exceptionally arrogant.

As for why I am here it is because I wish to represent an anti High Elf point of view. I represent an anti High Elf point of view because Alliance High Elves can never be meaningfully differentiated from Blood Elves, a core Horde race. And we know they can never be meaningfully differentiated because when they were meaningfully differentiated, the pro High Elf community threw a massive strop and said it wasn't good enough.

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With a Mag'har orc you can say that you came from Outland or that you lived in Durotar all these years if you don't use certain emotes, you can't say that from a Void Elf.

And claiming that wanting something does make people admit anything is only your own damn perception, not reality, and while it may be true for somebody is not universal.

These threads are not still alive just for a goddamn look you know?

And as I said, that a small group of people genuinely want Alliance High Elves for the lore is undeniable. But the majority, due to their participation in the Unofficial Void Elf threads and the clamouring for normal skin options, proved that the lore and the theme mean nothing. It was always about the aesthetic of having a 'pale, majestic elf'.

Which is an aesthetic and theme currently available.

[Aldo Hawk]

@Obelisk Kai You don't have remedy.

[FlubberPuddy]

Having some no-name High Elves willingly submitting to transformation into Void Elves doesn't really make sense though and it will take any High Elf studying the void like Alleria did years before the can master it (and they would end up looking like normal High Elves like Alleria).

They could have based the Void Elves on Auric Sunchaser and Outland High Elves being forcefully transformed into Void Elves but Blizzard either didn't consider this or the Void Elves being former Blood Elves will turn out to be an important story arc (e.g. Umbric knowing how to disable Silvermoon's defenses)

The Silver Covenant could not be used as the basis for Void Elves since it would have meant transforming Vereesa into a Void Elf and Blizzard needs her at the moment as the "normal" Windrunner sister.

Oh believe me mah dude I completely understand it would make no sense at all for High Elves to willingly submit to transform into Void Elves. It's not part of their mindset as a group to do that.

It's just I tire of the asinine theory brought up that some High Elves are becoming Void with no proof at all and further proof showing reinforcing that these Void Elves we play (super important bit for those who don't know) are 100% exiled Silvermoon Blood Elves.

You're right it could've been written that some were forcefully transformed, that's my entire point though for the anti-helf crowd. If Blizzard really didn't want to have High Elves continue being a thing then why didn't they make such an easy solution?

Your suggestion of Auric and his High Elves also could've been a solution yet here we see an Island expedition team containing a High Elf and named Auric's Angels.

Blizzard is keeping High Elves around, that much is known. For what, we don't really know yet.

There is still a Windrunner Reunion to come, and as I've said before we now have 2 Elven NPCs talking about bringing Silvermoon back into the Alliance fold.

Wonder if anything will come from either of these, but we can only wait and see how the expansion progresses to know.

[Strippling]

You sound so illogical

I feel the same about you.

I really can't be bothered going back and forth either with walls of text. You think HE should be playable for x reasons, I think they shouldn't for y reasons. Is x > y or is y > x, its a subjective answer but Blizz for the moment seem to agree with y (ie. no HE)...

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@Strippling

There is an important thing about the discussion. That this is a mix of lore and looks, while the lore already allows such thing as alliance HE, the looks is what makes people worried, lore should only be taken when speaking of looks, because otherway we end in dishonesty and headcanon.

After all this you (or others) may think: 'Well, it seems that this is all about looks then'. I can only answer one thing: Yes and no, while looks is what attract some people the lore is what is keeping this thing alive, some of the people here who supports HE would never play one if they get added (not every HE supporter is alliance for example, and some alliance supporting it would not play one), HE were the obvious choose in the first place and we got VE with weak excuses, that is what fueled all this discussion apart from having the new allied race system, we respect the lore and want the factions to be the most complete as they can be, me personally would not be here asking for it if HE were not alliance in the first place, but they are, and they deserve a second look.

The problem is that we view this same topic differently. I have to disagree (and I'll try to be less hostile).

See, if lore was the main issue keeping this alive, then people would have been happy and accepted previous, current and upcoming lore development for NPC high elfs. As pro-high elfers have stated on many occasions, HE have appeared in most expansions (some appearances have been small, others more significant) and have apparently been more prevalent then some of the alliance races (ie. gnomes). So I can't understand how the lore is the issue here, when they've been included in storylines in nearly every expansion. Is it more high elf lore that pro-high elfers want? If so, then why can't this be achieved via NPC high elfs? With Alleria being the leader of the void elfs there is potential for a story which involves void elfs and high elfs integrating.

Aesthetics on the other hand, seems to be the focal reason for keeping this alive. And this is why there has been such a heated argument about high elfs. I'm not gonna go into this topic, as it has been over talked about to death, but Blizz considers it to blur faction lines and I do too (along with many others). Like I said before, if I want to play a bearded dwarf then the alliance is waiting for me, if you want to play a light skinned high elf then the horde is waiting for you.

[Aldo Hawk]

The problem is that we view this same topic differently. I have to disagree (and I'll try to be less hostile).

See, if lore was the main issue keeping this alive, then people would have been happy and accepted previous, current and upcoming lore development for NPC high elfs. As pro-high elfers have stated on many occasions, HE have appeared in most expansions (some appearances have been small, others more significant) and have apparently been more prevalent then some of the alliance races (ie. gnomes). So I can't understand how the lore is the issue here, when they've been included in storylines in nearly every expansion. Is it more high elf lore that pro-high elfers want? If so, then why can't this be achieved via NPC high elfs? With Alleria being the leader of the void elfs there is potential for a story which involves void elfs and high elfs integrating.

Aesthetics on the other hand, seems to be the focal reason for keeping this alive. And this is why there has been such a heated argument about high elfs. I'm not gonna go into this topic, as it has been over talked about to death, but Blizz considers it to blur faction lines and I do too (along with many others). Like I said before, if I want to play a bearded dwarf then the alliance is waiting for me, if you want to play a light skinned high elf then the horde is waiting for you.

-Well, if this is just only about high elf lore of course the discussion would be different, but we are discussing playable characters here, of course HE storylines is something that some people wants, but that's a side of this.

I stated many times that VE being BE feels insulting for somebody like me that played BE and other horde characters and don't play alliance as much or at all. But i would be fine with them if they were alliance HE infused with void in the first place (being it for the most reasonable reasons Blizzard could provide), and i would totally accept a compromise of some former HE being transformed into VE, that would be end of discussion for me here, it would be an spicy pill to take as some of them would still be BE, but the alliance could at least play something that lorewise are their allied thalassians that weren't ever horde or BE, i would prefer much the pure concept of the HE allied race instead of that little pick, at least it would not feel as bad as VE for people that feel like me and it would be very natural by itself.

And by being natural is what some people means in a contrary way when pointing to something as an asspull, it's just and allegory for it feeling forced, there is a pretext for HE that ever were there so it doesn't feel that way.

-The looks of a race aren't all, it's just a way to make them feel different, and this is the point where HE supporters really enters in muddy territory, because we know that lorewise they make sense, but lore itself doesn't hold enought for an allied race as Blizzard points out.

Some things were discussed about the looks, would they have new customisation options? of course, every new addition does have it, but what kind of customisation then? i'm not even going to say blue eyes because that's something BE should have by now alongside yellow-lighted and green being unique to them, and by now we know that blue eyes are just default as BE green eyes were for so long.

Apart that, there was a discussion about giving them a new skeleton/animations, and anti HE stated that it would be unnatural, and i agree, even giving them just a slightly different idle would not be right.

So then, the most popular choice were the tattoos/warpaint, as not all armor covers all the body, you could show some of them to give somekind of visual information, but something as tattoos/warpaint aren't that effective at all just because that surely would be an optional thing just as other tattoos/warpaints are.

But then we have something that difficultly hides, the ears, and some people here stated that giving special kind of trinkets for the hair/ears (such as feathers or jewelry made of wood or something distinguishable) could be a nice visual information, as we currently can see, nowadays we could still miss a VE from a BE even in close distances in certain situations, not even full armor, in a HE that would be more difficult adding that jewelry are, as other things, optional.

Then we have the Pandaren situation, we currently have the exact same race in the two factions with the exact same customisation options, and not much happened coming from that. Some argued that Pandaren being neutral killed their lore development, but surely they were not talking about how they look, so that would not apply to HE and BE, so they would not come from the same starting point in current lore, but they would have their clear differences, both of them even have places they can call home unlike Pandaren that doesn't seems to be returning to their island or setting locations (that's kind of Blizzard's fault), we have a precedent where nothing disastrous happened with having the same race in the two factions, and with HE, they would only not just be thalassians, but thalassians with their own way apart from BE, with their (even being little) own foundations out there in the world.

-As you can see the muddy part comes with looks, because that is what pull HE apart from being an allied race, and it's just that, just that detail that separates what we can play with what is in the lore, a VE is not a replacement just because it's ties with void and BE themes, being the void the un-apartable thing while the BE thing is the most subtle, but tied to VE, that's why i made the comparison between Mag'har and VE, you can pretend succesfully that you are from Outland or an ex-Garrosh sympathiser in the form of a dragonmaw orc because the AU draenor theme is not tied to Mag'har (That doesn't mean i like the idea of the whole AU Mah'gar...), while the void theme of VE not only separates them from HE, but have it's ties with exiled BE that currently doesn't seems to bend.

It's all in Blizzard's hands, and until now we didn't got a positive response about the matter, and definitely not an ultimatum.

Sorry if it was too long, there's much i would add, i just wanted to express what i got from participating in the HE discussion since two months, and playing wow since 7 or 8 years.

[FossilFree]

Looks like Blizz has decided to resort to all out censorship of the High Elf topic on their forums. They are simply deleting threads or posts that support the idea at all now. At least MMOC still lets us have freedom of speech.

[Strippling]

Looks like Blizz has decided to resort to all out censorship of the High Elf topic on their forums. They are simply deleting threads or posts that support the idea at all now. At least MMOC still lets us have freedom of speech.

They tried to consolidate the various HE threads that kept popping up into one megathread. As of recent (within the last week or so) a number of different HE threads have begun to pop up again on top of the megathread. I'd say as a result of this Blizz may be censoring them as it's a violation of their thread policies (ie. spam)

[Obelisk Kai]

They tried to consolidate the various HE threads that kept popping up into one megathread. As of recent (within the last week or so) a number of different HE threads have begun to pop up again on top of the megathread. I'd say as a result of this Blizz may be censoring them as it's a violation of their thread policies (ie. spam)

I just checked the US official forums and the 'Alliance High Elves as a playable race' thread is missing. Went back ten pages covering two days and it just isn't there. It was there yesterday, I'm sure of it.

The only High Elf topic I saw in fact was one about elven Paladins that insisted it wasn't a High Elf thread.

I can't post in the US forums so I only check them periodically, but some form of High Elf thread has been on the front page of General for the past seven months. Now a week or so after the Q and A where Ion ruled out Alliance High Elves, which triggered a proliferation of threads, the US mods attempted to consolidate feedback into one thread and began closing all the others. It's for the same reason the moderators here created the megathread, an attempt to consolidate the discussion into one location so that it wouldn't overwhelm the forums with the constant spam.

While I am not surprised at the moderators closing all other High Elf topics on the official forum, I am surprised they've seemingly deleted the unofficial thread there. I wonder if it was a mistake, or overzealous interpretation of internal moderator guidelines regarding certain topics (i.e. only one High Elf thread allowed but in a sweep to get rid of the extraneous ones they closed the allowed one) or if the moderators have finally had enough of policing a circular discussion which is only circular because some of the participants persist in disregarding the answer they were given.

Only time will tell, but a new high elf thread will probably prop up in the fullness of time.

[Strippling]

I just checked the US official forums and the 'Alliance High Elves as a playable race' thread is missing. Went back ten pages covering two days and it just isn't there. It was there yesterday, I'm sure of it.

The only High Elf topic I saw in fact was one about elven Paladins that insisted it wasn't a High Elf thread.

I can't post in the US forums so I only check them periodically, but some form of High Elf thread has been on the front page of General for the past seven months. Now a week or so after the Q and A where Ion ruled out Alliance High Elves, which triggered a proliferation of threads, the US mods attempted to consolidate feedback into one thread and began closing all the others. It's for the same reason the moderators here created the megathread, an attempt to consolidate the discussion into one location so that it wouldn't overwhelm the forums with the constant spam.

While I am not surprised at the moderators closing all other High Elf topics on the official forum, I am surprised they've seemingly deleted the unofficial thread there. I wonder if it was a mistake, or overzealous interpretation of internal moderator guidelines regarding certain topics (i.e. only one High Elf thread allowed but in a sweep to get rid of the extraneous ones they closed the allowed one) or if the moderators have finally had enough of policing a circular discussion which is only circular because some of the participants persist in disregarding the answer they were given.

Only time will tell, but a new high elf thread will probably prop up in the fullness of time.

Oh ok, thanks for the update. Does seem weird to delete the unofficial thread but I'm sure another will pop up soon

[Deleted]

I'm pretty much fine with anything that does not use the Thalasian model, even if it's labelled a high elf.

I misunderstood You then. Sorry. I was thinking You are against connecting the story of future classic elves with existing High Elven groups. But when You put it this way - I personally in fact perfectly agree with You, that they are not ready for implementation, and need some development.

I didin't also said You used this term, I just noticed necessity of acknowledging this problem. If race is to traditional - they will be heard voices, that it is unnecessarily, generic, or not unique enough. If it is introduced as totally new, and not rooted in existing story - such voices are sure to be heard.

The developer's word is the only truth.

Not exactly. When some name is also a common name, developer won't be able to convince everyone that 2 + 2 = 7, cause it refers to things existing outside game. And this is the case here. They have no full control about what people recognize as "High Elf", and what they do not, cause it is not just their creation.

because when they were meaningfully differentiated, the pro High Elf community threw a massive strop and said it wasn't good enough.

This is a manipulation. You actually rejected ideas of differentiating in way consistent with theme, proposed by High Elf fans - like bronze skins - by yourself, and You are staying silent about it now. You refer only to such tries of differentiation that were clearly here said to be harming to current relation of particular elf interpretation to archetype. Because that is more suiting to your thesis.

Blizz for the moment seem to agree with y

This is out of discussion, that they are.

However not everyone have to take for good coin, when they say their excuses. I'm for example strongly convenient, that making classical elves playable for Alliance in not harmful for the game way is absolutely possible. And this is a statement I defend here.

With Alleria being the leader of the void elfs there is potential for a story which involves void elfs and high elfs integrating.

This one is actually troubling for elven fans, as it rather endangers elven identities.

As for now High Elven presence on screen do not resulted in independent development, that would make them possible to be playable, by differentiating enough. There are some points of lore, that could be used in such way - Highvale Elf story, Isle of Thunder Story, but they were never pushed to the point making High Elves ready to unlock.

if I want to play a bearded dwarf then the alliance is waiting for me

So, the reason why we can not have Vyrkul, is that Dwarves also have beards, right? This is why any other race can not have beard?

If we simplify race to just one particular aspect of it's appearance - two things happen. First, we destroy it's concept, at races are defined by relation of all their properties to archetype, not just appearance. If You describe Blood Elf just by it's skin color - this is not a Blood Elf anymore. I know, that for some people paying attention to more elements is tiresome, but they are still there, and they at least to some point determine popularity of the race and it's reception.

Second - we end with quite absurd conclusions. For example - that there is no way of making classical elf on Alliance side, that would be at least as different from Blood Elves, as NIghtborne are from Night Elves. And this is simple not true. Such solutions are possible here.

If Blizzard will get to conclusion, that skin color alone is factor more important, than making new elven race more classical and more similar to WCII, and partially WCIII elves - their next try of making answer might be even worst, than Void Elves.

That's not what happened though, Void Elves are entirely Blood Elves and even the newest lore that came out about them from Magister Umbric continues to state and show that they're ALL exiled Silvermoon Blood Elves that are part of his crew. It's head canon to think any Void Elves are High Elves right now.

Maybe they concluded, that it would be easier to bypass of population problem, when they would be able to supply their ranks on both sides, maybe they concluded that Alleria solitary traveling through Twisting Nether for a thousand years, can not become whole new race alone, and maybe they understood, that making elves who refused use fel in past void practitioners now would be to ridiculous even for them.

But no matter what the reason was - now that move now confirms, that Void Elves could not be considered answer for people asking High Elves.

And the reason people switched from the Void Elf threads to High Elf threads is because those people were fed up with trying to compromise and said "you know what, let's just ask for what we really want - High Elves" and those why those discussion threads were born and Void Elf threads were left to rot.

And this is in fact sad, that some people trying to handle somehow situation in what Blizzard carelessly put them, might now become argument for ant-High Elven statements.

[FlubberPuddy]

I think the reason the unofficial High Elf thread got 404'd is because it can get pretty toxic.

Just like this thread can at time also get toxic. But the moderators here give out warnings before starting with bans.

It's not the first time the US High Elf threads get 404'd when the discussion gets too heated.

I wouldn't see it as the moderators tire of the discussion, more so that the trolls who come to be antagonistic and toxic got the thread closed because too many people took their bait and toxicity and responded back in kind.

As others have said, another will pop up back soon, I wouldn't be overly concerned with it.

I did find some interesting news yesterday checking the High Elf Discord.

1) They added some High Elves back to the Arathi Warfront, as part of the 7th Legion. This makes absolute sense since High Elf War Mages have been in the 7th Legion since Wrath.

2) Ian Bates (Red shirt Guy) also found some more nondescript High Elf NPCs in BfA in some underwater bar or something with some other Alliance NPCs hanging around. -- So High Elf presence continues to be a thing, albeit in a minor manner (which makes sense for them as a minor race, not main race).

3) Probably the most interesting thing: Ion Hazzikostas himself liked a Tweet from a fan saying that they were disappointed High Elves would not be playable for the Alliance for the time being and they hope that one day Blizzard can make this race that people enjoy and love so much playable.

Edit: Also there is newer High Elf fan artwork in the HE Discord, I wish it were posted here, some of it is incredibly beautiful and bad ass!!

[RangerDaz]

3) Probably the most interesting thing: Ion Hazzikostas himself liked a Tweet from a fan saying that they were disappointed High Elves would not be playable for the Alliance for the time being and they hope that one day Blizzard can make this race that people enjoy and love so much playable.

I think Ion stopped making Q&A because of all the controversy created by his comments on the high elf subject.
Blizzard wanted to avoid another internet war after what happened in the last Q&A, and so i doubt he will do another Q&A soon.

[Sigxy]

Wait, they are deleting high elf threads on the Blizzard forums? Well that's annoying. I can see it being an issue if there were too many threads but some kind of warning would've been good.

Even if I don't want High Elves as a playable thing, they shouldn't delete pro-high elves' opinions just like that. ;_: