Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Garfurion]

Is there any NPC Group that's not a playable race Blizzard has continually progressed with through expansions that hasn't culminated in something happening?

Wildhammer Dwarves - Around since vanilla. Wildhammer stronghold in Outland with WC2 hero Kurdran (TBC). Council of Three hammers between Wrath and Cata. The Twilight Highlands quest line in cataclysm for Alliance was literally to unite the Wildhammer Clans under the Alliance banner which would have been the perfect introduction for them as an Allied Race if Allied races had existed in Cataclysm. From what I've read they play a pretty significant role again in BfA.

There are actually a lot of similarities between Wildhammer Dwarves and Alliance High Elves in that they are long-time members of the Alliance (going back to Warcraft II), significant presence in zones/quest-lines, have major lore figures appearing both in books and in-game and are not playable in terms of game mechanics despite being high on the list of requested (sub-)races.

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I wonder if Blizzard will do some more character improvement with Vereesa since she's now severely lacking in power compared to her sisters (although it makes sense since she is "Little Moon" anyway). But like how they gave Alleria Void Powers to make her relevant enough to stand on her own, wonder if the same will happen to Vereesa?

Vereesa will probably undergo some fel-infusion at some point (probably against her will).

There are 6 major sources of magic listed in Chronicle (Life vs Death, Shadow vs Light and Order (arcane) vs Disorder (fel)).

Alleria is the sister of Shadow and her partner is Turalyon who is associated with Holy/Light.
Sylvanas is the sister of Death.

Since Rhonin was clearly associated with Order/Arcane thus it only makes sense for Vereesa to become the sister of Disorder.

Of course this means Sylvanas must have a secret consort of Sylvanas associated with Life/Nature ? some yet unknown Zandalari troll druid maybe ...poor Nathanos

It only makes sense that after Blizzard turned Blood-Elves into classic tolkien High Elves, that Alliance High Elves become vampiric and fel empowered (like demon hunters) so they can fight fire with fire.

[Zulkhan]

Sooo, been gone for a few days and things haven't been great in here.

As a reminder, if you're in this thread just to argue with people for liking/wanting a thing and saying they are dumb/ignorant for liking/wanting a thing, don't. If you have productive/useful/non-crappy commentary to add, feel free. But if the sole reason you are coming into this thread is to start arguments, it's not going to end well.

I mean, I'm not even sure to whom this "warning" is aimed to, since you must have probably noticed how in the last few days this thread has simply turned into very little more than a mere debate between a single Pro-High Elfer and a single Anti-High Elfer, who are simply and endlessly reiterating how they think the other one is wrong.

[FlubberPuddy]

Wildhammer Dwarves - Around since vanilla. Wildhammer stronghold in Outland with WC2 hero Kurdran (TBC). Council of Three hammers between Wrath and Cata. The Twilight Highlands quest line in cataclysm for Alliance was literally to unite the Wildhammer Clans under the Alliance banner which would have been the perfect introduction for them as an Allied Race if Allied races had existed in Cataclysm. From what I've read they play a pretty significant role again in BfA.

There are actually a lot of similarities between Wildhammer Dwarves and Alliance High Elves in that they are long-time members of the Alliance (going back to Warcraft II), significant presence in zones/quest-lines, have major lore figures appearing both in books and in-game and are not playable in terms of game mechanics despite being high on the list of requested (sub-)races.

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Vereesa will probably undergo some fel-infusion at some point (probably against her will).

There are 6 major sources of magic listed in Chronicle (Life vs Death, Shadow vs Light and Order (arcane) vs Disorder (fel)).

Alleria is the sister of Shadow and her partner is Turalyon who is associated with Holy/Light.
Sylvanas is the sister of Death.

Since Rhonin was clearly associated with Order/Arcane thus it only makes sense for Vereesa to become the sister of Disorder.

Of course this means Sylvanas must have a secret consort of Sylvanas associated with Life/Nature ? some yet unknown Zandalari troll druid maybe ...poor Nathanos

It only makes sense that after Blizzard turned Blood-Elves into classic tolkien High Elves, that Alliance High Elves become vampiric and fel empowered (like demon hunters) so they can fight fire with fire.

Ah okay, I wasn't thinking of WHs when making that post but you're right! Was trying to see if there was any race Horde side that did as I described. Seems like this situation is unique to the Alliance.

Even the latest comic, Three Sisters, has both Vereesa and Alleria going back to the Alliance as they leave. The comic, as people requesting Alliance High Elves do, showing again that Blizzard continues to use High Elves and the Silver Covenant (ie keep them relevant).

The way the comic was going, as people theorized, could've had Vereesa die there at that moment and "dampen the HE movement" (as some would put it). Didn't happen though. I think it shows Blizzard has plans for em much much later.

I don't really think Vereesa will go Fel, that just what made the Blood Elves, Blood Elves. The starkest difference between the remaining Quel'dorei and the now Sin'dorei is super easy to see: One heavily relies on magic, the other not so much.

This can even be seen with the Blood Elves allies the Nightborne, another race of mana heavy elves that are just purple.

If Horde can get a race that similar, Alliance should be able to as well. And this wherein comes the whole "Wild Elves" idea that is making High Elves become a bit more similar to their Night Elf brethren - though not completely. So then we'd have just like Nightborne and Blood Elves who are 2 mana based elves, the High Elves and Night Elves who are more woodsy based elves.

Anyways, wherever the storylines lead, right now the Quel'dorei are the "blank slate of elves" just as Stormwind Humans are the "blank slate of humans" and we see the different iterations of them through Worgen, Kul'Tiran, and one could argue even Forsaken.

[Darththeo]

Wanting something is fine and is perfectly understandable.

But that doesn't mean the desire should pass without comment or opposition, particularly in regards to the fundamental objection I and the other Anti High Elf posters have, an objection that is sustained by a considerable body of evidence and commentary in support.

That High Elves are already playable as part of the Horde as Blood Elves, that Void Elves are a variant of a High Elf for the Alliance, and that it is impossible to differentiate an Alliance High Elf from a Horde Blood Elf without it still remaining a High Elf.

As a result, the request for an Alliance High Elf is a request for an exact duplicate of a core Horde race. This renders the request for an Alliance High Elf unique among almost all potential race suggestions and by far the most controversial.

I don't define Blood Elves as a core Horde race. How often are Blood elves the forefront of the Horde? One patch in MoP and the rest they act as a support troop. If you define core as main race played, I personally reject that pointless definition.

And yes, you can object ... but that isn't what you are doing. You are constantly informing people they are wrong without evidence. You think you have evidence, but you really don't. So please listen to the mod and stop.

[Obelisk Kai]

I don't define Blood Elves as a core Horde race. How often are Blood elves the forefront of the Horde? One patch in MoP and the rest they act as a support troop. If you define core as main race played, I personally reject that pointless definition.

And yes, you can object ... but that isn't what you are doing. You are constantly informing people they are wrong without evidence. You think you have evidence, but you really don't. So please listen to the mod and stop.

Blood Elves are a core Horde race by virtue of the fact that they are selectable as one of the starting races and because they constitute the biggest chunk of the Horde player base. Saying that the Blood Elves aren't a core race is to bring in yet more personal bias, that the Horde should just be Orcs and Trolls and Tauren sitting in the desert grunting, and defies the reality of the modern Horde as multi-racial, multi-cultural and multi-thematic, a Horde with an undead elf Warchief...in contrast to an Alliance that is mono-thematic and human dominated.

I also refuse your assertion that I have no evidence. I have produced plenty of evidence supporting my points and assertions. It is your inability to refute the evidence I have provided, to instead default to the standard pro High Elf modus operandi of attacking the evidence of the Anti High Elf side because the pro High Elf side has nothing to argue on, that is currently driving the debate. Time and again I have asked for something in game, something concrete said by a developer, anything to support the pro High Elf point of view. Because you cannot, you are determined to drag the entire debate onto a purely subjective platform where opinions are equal.

I will not tie my hands in this debate to cater to the weakness of your position. If you cannot accept the reality of the game as currently constituted, that is your problem and not mine. Your denial of the facts of the case don't render them any less true, no more than denial of the Earth being round by the flat earthers renders the earth less round.

The pro High Elf argument always boils down to the same result, the same plan. I don't even have to use my own words this time, I can use those provided by another pro High Elfer.

If we gona whine long enough - i bet HIGHT ELFS would be added eventualy too.

Nothing to go on except that desire, that wish. At least cocomen2 is honest about the plan.

[infinitemeridian]

I don't define Blood Elves as a core Horde race. How often are Blood elves the forefront of the Horde? One patch in MoP and the rest they act as a support troop. If you define core as main race played, I personally reject that pointless definition.

And yes, you can object ... but that isn't what you are doing. You are constantly informing people they are wrong without evidence. You think you have evidence, but you really don't. So please listen to the mod and stop.

"I don't..."

Pretty much sums up that post.

[Gurluas]

When something was a core race of the Alliance and then lore is made up to make them retroactively leave the Alliance earlier and then join the Horde because of random Nelves...Yeah people who are fans of the race get upset. I don't mind Blood elves in the Horde but they will never be a core Horde race, because they were an Alliance core race, and High elves are still in the Alliance.

Belves should never have been in the Horde without Alliance Helves.
And they technically weren't, we did get Alliance Helves as NPCs, making it clear that a part of the race always remains in the Alliance.
Now would have been the time to make them properly playable since they have a system for it. Even if the High elves had to diverge from the standard High elves, most would be fine with that judging by this thread.

Ion however, doesn't seem to get what makes High elves special, interesting, or distinct from Blood elves. He thinks Alliance players just want pretty blonde Elves in the Alliance. This is why High elf fans are upset. Void elves are NOT High elves, they're Blood elves, and act that way too.
You can cover up yourself as a Velf and RP a Helf, sure, but it's still annoying having to do that.

The Antis will keep parroting Ion and the Helf fans get more upset because the Antis and Blizzard aren't listening.
This whole thing is almost 200 pages of back and forth without any substance.

It's getting quite annoying. Even my concept of Snow elves, which could remove the need for High elves entirely, was ignored.
So instead we're here repeating ourselves over and over and over.

[Traveler Voltin]

High elves were alliance for 1 game and its expansion(maybe?) then left the alliance after the Orc threat was over.

Blood elves have been apart of the horde for 6 expansions soon to be 7.

High elves a core alliance my butt.

blood elves are a core horde race.

[Zulkhan]

When something was a core race of the Alliance and then lore is made up to make them retroactively leave the Alliance earlier and then join the Horde because of random Nelves...Yeah people who are fans of the race get upset.

Retroactively? The lore always had High Elves leaving the Alliance before the Third War even began and so the Blood Elves breaking that relationship for good in TFT. And High Elves always had a pretty precarious relationship with the Alliance, always attracted by a rather isolationist kind of lifestyle. If there is any perception that High Elves were super-uber important in the Alliance that perception was sold by Alleria and her little squad of rangers. Which is, nonetheless, still perception.

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Ion however, doesn't seem to get what makes High elves special, interesting, or distinct from Blood elves.

He doesn't because, facts at hand, there is nothing of the sort. All High Elf fans have kept doing is projecting their borderline headcanon, the one making High Elves incredibly distinct and interesting.

The Antis will keep parroting Ion and the Helf fans get more upset because the Antis and Blizzard aren't listening.

That's because repeating a flawed reasoning over, over and over again for 10 years is not going to make it more convincing, it just bores people eventually.

[Gurluas]

Retroactively? The lore always had High Elves leaving the Alliance before the Third War even began and so the Blood Elves breaking that relationship for good in TFT. And High Elves always had a pretty precarious relationship with the Alliance, always attracted by a rather isolationist kind of lifestyle. If there is any perception that High Elves were super-uber important in the Alliance that perception was sold by Alleria and her little squad of rangers. Which is, nonetheless, still perception.

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He doesn't because, facts at hand, there is nothing of the sort. All High Elf fans have kept doing is projecting their borderline headcanon, the one making High Elves incredibly distinct and interesting.



That's because repeating a flawed reasoning over, over and over again for 10 years is not going to make it more convincing, it just bores people eventually.

The Third war wasn't even a thing when the High elves were an Alliance core race, and even then, during those days a big group of High elves rejoined the Alliance and were part of it in Wow, if anything they were slated to have High elves in the Alliance and Blood elves becoming darker with the Illidari.

In fact, there's hints in Vanilla wow that High elves were planned and were going to be an Alliance race.

The fact you consider wow lore both ingame and out of the game as headcanon proves you're not worth even talking to.
It's not headcanon that there was a deep political and ideological divide. The side of this divide that the High elves took is what High elf fans like.

The distinctness in this thread was brainstorming to try and give Blizzard a way to make High elves more distinct from Blood elves based on their original lore and ideological reason to stick to the Alliance.

Not all of it is though, for instance, the Highvale High elves really did quit any kind of Arcane magic and lived in harmony with the land and Wildhammers.

[Evilfish]

When something was a core race of the Alliance and then lore is made up to make them retroactively leave the Alliance earlier and then join the Horde because of random Nelves...Yeah people who are fans of the race get upset. I don't mind Blood elves in the Horde but they will never be a core Horde race, because they were an Alliance core race, and High elves are still in the Alliance.

Belves should never have been in the Horde without Alliance Helves.
And they technically weren't, we did get Alliance Helves as NPCs, making it clear that a part of the race always remains in the Alliance.
Now would have been the time to make them properly playable since they have a system for it. Even if the High elves had to diverge from the standard High elves, most would be fine with that judging by this thread.

Ion however, doesn't seem to get what makes High elves special, interesting, or distinct from Blood elves. He thinks Alliance players just want pretty blonde Elves in the Alliance. This is why High elf fans are upset. Void elves are NOT High elves, they're Blood elves, and act that way too.
You can cover up yourself as a Velf and RP a Helf, sure, but it's still annoying having to do that.

The Antis will keep parroting Ion and the Helf fans get more upset because the Antis and Blizzard aren't listening.
This whole thing is almost 200 pages of back and forth without any substance.

It's getting quite annoying. Even my concept of Snow elves, which could remove the need for High elves entirely, was ignored.
So instead we're here repeating ourselves over and over and over.

But they were not an alliance core race. They were a reluctant ally at best, used the humans as meatshields. And they were not an actual Alliance race, they had units in the Alliance roster in Warcraft and Warcraft II, but in Warcraft III they got a campaign dedicated to them and it was all about quitting the LORDAERON ALLIANCE. So, unless you are confusing Warcraft with Lord of the Rings, they were never an Alliance core race.

Well whatever time you are talking about has long passed the moment you got Void Elves. But take consolation in the fact that you were never going to get them. Not even if WoW ended up failing badly. This is the best you get. Deal with it already.

I think Ion got you pegged right, cause to be honest, helf fans tend to spill their guts on the forums, no matter how stupid it sounds. Proof of that is how you think he has the issue, not you. You are simply not rational people. That is the unfortunate truth.

The "Antis" try to stick some common sense into your skulls. They are not parroting Ion, they are reminding you Blizzard's position on this High Elf idiocy that has become a monumental embarrassment. When someone tells you what you don't want to hear your shriek like you've lost your minds. And these 200 pages are proof of that, proof that you keep beating a horse that has be irrefutably confirmed dead and decayed. The train has left the station and it's never coming back, enjoy Velfs or don't. But deal with the fact that's all you get. You want the pretty blonde version, get used to wearing red.

Your concept was wasted, because the fact is the game does not need more elves. However more elves could be added if their elf identity comes second. Take the Vampelfs for example. They are ok. Why? Because they are so far away from the elf concept that they become something else entirely, like the Velfs. That's the best you could hope for. But to be honest, as annoying and irrational as you are, you don't deserve it.

[DeicideUH]

Anyone saying there wasn't a retcon to make blood elves a Horde race is wrong.

First off, high elves were a core Alliance race. You can say their kingdom in-lore seceeded, true, but the elves were still in the Alliance, just not as a nation:



Second: every material post-WC3, including the RPG and WoW, continued to portray high elves as an Alliance race. Canonically, Silvermoon was a dead place, no elf had survived there. Both the RPG (Lands of Conflict book) and an early WoW concept maps showed there were Alliance-friendly elves living in Quel'danas, however. There were essentially two off-shoots of the elves at that timestamp: the high elf refugees that were still part of the Alliance, and Kael'thas blood elves, which went to Outland and were portrayed and demon-feeding radicals.

In Vanilla WoW, all high elf settlements and most NPCs were Alliance-friendly (with exceptions like a Horde-friendly pirate in Barrens and some generic mobs from some cults (like Scholomance, Dark Strand and so on) that were hostile to both factions.

There were Horde-only quests to kill high elves in both Plaguelands and Hinterlands. Also, the only blood elf settlement was Azshara, it was hostile to everyone, and Horde had quests to fight them. They were portrayed as the evil radicals concept that I talked earlier.

For the "elves in the Horde" Burning Crusade plot to be possible, Blizzard had to retcon the entire pre-TBC lore, so Silvermoon had lots of survivors, and they had to whitewash the villainous blood elves so that this population of them had never tasted fel (and yet has green eyes for some reason). Even back in TBC, there was effort to portray high and blood elves differently, and we still saw high elves in the Alliance.

Adding elves to the Horde was a late decision taken way after WoW was launched, and probably motivated by player populations, as the Horde needed a "popular" race to counter Alliance's higher numbers. TBC came not only with that retcon, but also many others (including changing the Eredar's origin and Sargera's story to justify the complete asspull that was the draenei race).

[FlubberPuddy]

High Elves are definitely a core Alliance race and all the lore that is still canon supports this to this day.

Hell the entire city of Dalaran is pretty much the shining example of Human and High Elf camaraderie!

Also we see that there's a difference in the groups of High Elves even before the High Elf/Blood Elf split that's supported by previous lore and recent lore (Chronicles) wherein the Silvermoon High Elves who resided in their home were the ones that pretty much embodied what the Blood Elves are today: The ones who consider themselves the superior race and all other races as lesser than them and looked down upon Humans etc.

While the High Elves that decided to venture out (Like Alleria and hell even Kael!) were the High Elves who appreciated the other races and believed there's more to be learned from them etc etc.

So already there was a big ideological split, that's supported by the lore, that was around even before the actual High Elf/Blood Elf split happened.

And hell yeah the developers still support High Elves being a core Alliance race by virtue of them continually being shown as part of the Alliance, even in BFA!

Hell when Muffinus spoke about the Island Expedition teams he said something along the lines of "we had fun creating these teams of races that represent their factions" and guess what? The only non-playable Alliance race that's on an Expedition team is a HIGH ELF Ayyyy~

Also we have new lore by Magister Umbric saying that the Alliance are where his people belong! Heck, Void Elves are exiled Blood Elves so by definition and virtue the "Blood Elf" cannot be a core Horde race since they're not neutral.

You can play a type of Blood Elf on the Alliance side (Void Elf) and a type of Blood Elf on the Horde side (Blood Elf).

There's even continual talks of bringing Silvermoon back into the Alliance fold (not that it for sure will happen or w/e) and we've known since Blood Elves were released that there are even Blood Elves in Silvermoon that didn't entirely agree with joining the Horde and had to be brainwashed into it, and Umbric's crew is a part of the group of Blood Elves that didn't agree with the Horde leadership.

I'm not sure how people cannot see this? Regardless of the fact that there are Blood Elves on Horde and High Elves aside, the game has showed time and again bits and pieces of moments where the Blood Elf loyalty to the Horde isn't as strong as other races and then we finally have a playable exiled group of Blood Elves now in the Alliance.

To equate their loyalty to the ones of Orcs, Taurens, and Trolls is utterly dismissive of all the times and now that have shown "hey these Blood Elves, yeah they're not so with it in the Horde."

Shoot even in the BETA it's showing that the Forsaken aren't even entirely buddy buddy with the Blood Elves. Ask a Forsaken Battleguard in Zuldazar/Great Seal about Enchanting Trainer and they talk about blood elf Enchantress Quinni THEN they say at the end:

"You ask me, we sure did bring a lot of blood elves along with us. Makes one suspicious..." TF would a Forsaken Battleguard say this for?? lol

[Darththeo]

Blood Elves are a core Horde race by virtue of the fact that they are selectable as one of the starting races and because they constitute the biggest chunk of the Horde player base. Saying that the Blood Elves aren't a core race is to bring in yet more personal bias, that the Horde should just be Orcs and Trolls and Tauren sitting in the desert grunting, and defies the reality of the modern Horde as multi-racial, multi-cultural and multi-thematic, a Horde with an undead elf Warchief...in contrast to an Alliance that is mono-thematic and human dominated.

I also refuse your assertion that I have no evidence. I have produced plenty of evidence supporting my points and assertions. It is your inability to refute the evidence I have provided, to instead default to the standard pro High Elf modus operandi of attacking the evidence of the Anti High Elf side because the pro High Elf side has nothing to argue on, that is currently driving the debate. Time and again I have asked for something in game, something concrete said by a developer, anything to support the pro High Elf point of view. Because you cannot, you are determined to drag the entire debate onto a purely subjective platform where opinions are equal.

I will not tie my hands in this debate to cater to the weakness of your position. If you cannot accept the reality of the game as currently constituted, that is your problem and not mine. Your denial of the facts of the case don't render them any less true, no more than denial of the Earth being round by the flat earthers renders the earth less round.

The pro High Elf argument always boils down to the same result, the same plan. I don't even have to use my own words this time, I can use those provided by another pro High Elfer..

Again, I reject your definition of core because that is equivalent to "most played" and I don't view those as the same thing. And you basically are saying, you get personal bias, but I don't. Your bias is "Most played" is core. And just because they are playable doesn't make the core. That's a pretty weak definition of core, and on top of being weak is 100% useless. You are saying core to strengthen your argument when simply stating it is a playable race says all the same thing you are doing by calling them core. By calling them core, you make it seem they are 100% Horde only ... they aren't, only the playable version is and lore states they will do whatever is best for them. The Blood Elves would leave the Horde if it no longer suited their needs.

It's not an assertion ... it's a fact. You seem to struggle with facts. You accept only those that agree with you and reject all those that disagree. You have stated NO argument will ever sway you, so I ask what reason to you have for even posting here? You are just here to tell people they are wrong without evidence of them being wrong. This isn't an assertion, it's evidence by your posts.

[Strippling]

High Elves are definitely a core Alliance race and all the lore that is still canon supports this to this day.

Regardless of the fact that there are Blood Elves on Horde and High Elves aside, the game has showed time and again bits and pieces of moments where the Blood Elf loyalty to the Horde isn't as strong as other races and then we finally have a playable exiled group of Blood Elves now in the Alliance.

High elves are not a core alliance race. Core alliance races are those that are currently playable. High elves better fit the description of "lesser alliance race"... or something along those lines.

Also, High elf loyalty to the alliance has been questionable at times. Vareesa almost joined Sylvanas and the Horde. The high elves in the past left the Alliance at times and really only rejoined out of convenience. Here is a quote on recent history of the High elves and their "so called" core position in the Alliance:

A few high elves have chosen to join the Alliance in recent years, but the Alliance as a whole remains somewhat suspicious of high elves to this day. The high elves' secession from the Alliance during the Second War left bitter memories. Furthermore, the night elves, who became part of the Alliance during the Third War, saw it as their duty to warn their new allies against the high elves. The Highborne's part in bringing about the War of the Ancients figured heavily in the night elves' retelling of high elf history

https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf

This suggests that High Elves aren't as core as some may think.

Also from the same link; Other high elf remnants have chosen to rejoin the Alliance in recent years, arriving to a cold reception.[2] Modern high elves are a rare sight, and are commonly mistaken for blood elves.[11][12] In consequence, there are so few high elves left on Azeroth today that they cannot be considered a race in anything other than the biological sense. High elves did not gather in any significant numbers, nor did they act as a coordinated whole. They are a very small group of individuals scattered all over the world. As such, they do not have common opinions or goals. Indeed, modern high elves cannot even truly be said to have a culture—only a past filled with glory and regret.

Looks like the Alliance are somewhat skeptical of the High Elves for the most part. Also, modern high elves don't really have a culture - only a past filled with glory and regret. Based on this, the concept of playable high elves is founded on weak grounding. They aren't even really considered a race (which is consistent with Ion's statements) and at best are a few stragglers who chose to remain with the Alliance (who for the most part are skeptical of them) and formed a few different but very minor groups who lack culture and are filled with regret.. sounds like a pretty poor choice as an allied race to me (notwithstanding the fact that they would also detract from core horde aesthetics).

What I've presented above are actual sources and facts giving reason as to why high elves are not a core alliance race and why they would make for a poor allied race.

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Again, I reject your definition of core because that is equivalent to "most played" and I don't view those as the same thing. And you basically are saying, you get personal bias, but I don't.

See my above comments.

Also, Blood elves are a core Horde race because they are a playable race. Stonemaul ogres would fit the mold of not a core Horde race... canonically, they are allied with the Horde but they are not playable.

[Darththeo]

Also, Blood elves are a core Horde race because they are a playable race. Stonemaul ogres would fit the mold of not a core Horde race... canonically, they are allied with the Horde but they are not playable.

Again, definition rejected. If core is just a synonym for playable ... it's irrelevant, redundant and thus useless. It makes it sound like Blood Elves are intrinsic to the Horde, and they are not lorewise. While Blood Elves are around, they rarely make up the bulk of the canon forces of the Horde in a group.

As for High Elves being a "poor allied race" ... I disagree. Given the quality of allied races, I don't see their quality significantly less than those we have. Yes, it isn't the best choice, but that doesn't make them a poor choice, just a poorer choice.

[FlubberPuddy]

SNIP

Thanks for citing very old lore in comparison to all the new lore developments I've used since then. Vereesa even got invited to Tyrande and Malfurion's wedding, suggesting mended relationships between High Elves and Night Elves, that's how old your sources are. They were debunked since...Cata? I think that's when the wedding happened.

Anyways, not here to go into back and forths with very obvious anti-helf peeps.

Just wanted to drop in and share this thread: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...5127473?page=1

Which other than the very few obvious pro-helfers and anti-helfers. Is filled with the most amount of neutral players I've seen that don't care one way or the other but many of them say similar things that Ion's excuses were terribad and that they wouldn't care if High Elves were added or not. Just very glad to see this.

[Ielenia]

Blizz tend to use this response anytime they're asked about something but they have no intention of actually developing. It's a polite way of saying no.

They gave that exact same response ("No plans right now") when asked about Demon Hunters, just FYI.

[Strippling]

Again, definition rejected. If core is just a synonym for playable ... it's irrelevant, redundant and thus useless. It makes it sound like Blood Elves are intrinsic to the Horde, and they are not lorewise. While Blood Elves are around, they rarely make up the bulk of the canon forces of the Horde in a group.

As for High Elves being a "poor allied race" ... I disagree. Given the quality of allied races, I don't see their quality significantly less than those we have. Yes, it isn't the best choice, but that doesn't make them a poor choice, just a poorer choice.

Care to share your definition of a core race then? You stated in a previous post "How often are Blood elves the forefront of the Horde? One patch in MoP and the rest they act as a support troop." Your very own statement could be said for High Elves too!!! if you consider Blood elves not core Horde because according to you they have not been the forefront of the Horde, then you must consider High elves as FAR from core Alliance yea?

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Thanks for citing very old lore in comparison to all the new lore developments I've used since then. Vereesa even got invited to Tyrande and Malfurion's wedding, suggesting mended relationships between High Elves and Night Elves, that's how old your sources are. They were debunked since...Cata? I think that's when the wedding happened.

It's not old lore, considering the current game director of WoW himself seems to agree with it. It's only old lore according to you because it disputes your personal opinion.

The wedding invite could suggest a relationship between the individuals themselves rather than the entire races? Claiming sources or counter-arguments are debunked based on highly assumpteous or anecdotal information is naughty.

[Darththeo]

Care to share your definition of a core race then? You stated in a previous post "How often are Blood elves the forefront of the Horde? One patch in MoP and the rest they act as a support troop." Your very own statement could be said for High Elves too!!! if you consider Blood elves not core Horde because according to you they have not been the forefront of the Horde, then you must consider High elves as FAR from core Alliance yea?

Given I never claimed High Elves are a core alliance race, I don't get what you are getting at.