Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Magnagarde]

This guy just gets quickly defensive over his flawed points in the worst of ways. I also remember this is the same guy who claimed Zandalari Paladins would make "no sense" while ignoring the lore literally showing the contrary. Then again, savagely ignoring the established lore is an awful vice of several High Elfers.

With Rezan now known to be dead dead, Zandalari paladins do not make sense to have.

Of course, depending on when he talked about it, this information might not have been out there and he could've been wrong at the time, but they do not make sense to have anymore and there's factual lore supporting this. However, future lore developments might change this.

[Oswen]

I'm not really pro-high elf but, as I said in the past, I can't really blame the fans asking for them after Blizzard used them over and over again in Alliance content.

What seems odd to me though are the various "let's add them but slightly different" requests: Storm Elves, Wild Elves, Celtic elves, Moon Elves, Snow Elves, Sea Elves etc.
I can understand some suggestions like making them actually Half Elves because of them mixing with Humans and change their posture or WC2 ranger tattoos as customization options (but wouldn't Blood Elves farstriders and the like have those aswell?) but what's the point of requesting High Elves if people would then go on and change them to make them "different"?

Because, hear me out, if changing them is fine as long they get in how about a High Elf changed by...the Void?
That's pretty much what Blizzard did with Void Elves, they are High (Blood) Elves who got slightly changed by somekind of energy, just like many of the requested suggestions.
What Blizzard did wrong is probably not turning those Alliance High Elves into the Void Elves we get to play.
Have them follow Alleria, get kidnapped by ethereals during a meeting or something and voilà, High Elves become Void Elves and we wouldn't be here discussing since every High Elf would be either a Blood or Void Elf, like somekind of divergent evolution path.
Blizzard chickened out of this scenario for some reasons but they can still fix it with a few lines or some small event with High Elves "converting" to the Void (and replace every High Elf npc in Stormwind and the like).

This is why I ask...what's wrong with Void Elves? Is Skin option#3 (purplish like in the artwork) not "pink" enough? I personally think they look nice.
I can understand people asking for Vanilla High Elves (unlikely as they may be) but if we really have to "change" them to make them work why would a "Storm" Elf be ok and a "Void" one not?

[Magnagarde]

Both sides of this decade-long arguement have extremely valid points. Blizzard is at fault here for giving extremely valid arguements to both sides. The only reason why Blizzard isn't the one taking blame is because one side of the arguement has it's points reinforced through a playable race, whereas the other is waiting for theirs. The fact that Blizzard came up with void elves and made them a playable Alliance race shows that they aknowledge the existence of the problem and that they attempted to fix it.

To say that there's not enough lore reasons why high elves should be playable for the Alliance is completely illogical and seems to be fueled with bias rather than objectivity. On the other hand, to ignore the fact that blood elves have - to my disappointment as I like the Old Horde style a thousand times more - become part of the Horde identity is illogical and selfish too because it is inconsiderate of all the players that are into blood elves.

The reason why this arguement hasn't been brought to a conclusion is because both sides are right and because Blizzard keeps stoking the flames. Blizzard hoped to resolve the arguement with void elves, but they made things much worse, even for those of us who have no interest in whatever type of elf is being talked about because two allied race slots have been used to tackle this issue and it's only been made worse.

[Zulkhan]

With Rezan now known to be dead dead, Zandalari paladins do not make sense to have.

Of course, depending on when he talked about it, this information might not have been out there and he could've been wrong at the time, but they do not make sense to have anymore and there's factual lore supporting this. However, future lore developments might change this.

No, I assure you the statement had nothing to do with that, it was a shallow and generalized reference about Troll Paladins making as much as sense as Pandaren and that Zandalari would have been made so out of "rule of cool" alone.

[Varx]

Yes High Elves and Blood Elves are different races in a ideological sense. Biologically however they're the god damn same. The blue to green eyes was just a minor effect that doesn't nearly justify an allied race the same way different skin color does. Hell with Belves getting golden eyes it shows just how easily eye color can change and perhaps would open up the possibility for an "eye color option" for belf players in the future similar to orc posture.

Its like saying white Americans and White British are different races. Clearly those two cultures are very different but I dare you to tell me that they differ greatly biologically. Imagine if they gave Horde Defias Humans as an allied race and justified it because they have different beliefs and cultures or if they gave the Alliance Grimtotem Tauren for the same reason. How boring would that be after we already got Highmountain and Kul tirans.

To add to that, What would be the opposite of High Elves for the Horde Allied race, Green eyed Night elves? Because Blizzard sure as hell won't give the Horde another Alliance race while the alliance gets yet ANOTHER Thallasian model with less differences than Velves. You guys forget about that. You either give the horde a boring new allied race just like the Alliance, or you screw over the majority of Alliance players with a copy past while the horde gets something fresh like Gilgoblins or w/e.

High Elves exist where they belong and that is as NPC's. If you guys got your way then why shouldn't the special snowflakes who wants to play a Wildhammer or a Taunka or a fucking OUTLAND Mag'har because "hurr durr lore reasons" get their race too?

[DeicideUH]

Both sides of this decade-long arguement have extremely valid points. Blizzard is at fault here for giving extremely valid arguements to both sides. The only reason why Blizzard isn't the one taking blame is because one side of the arguement has it's points reinforced through a playable race, whereas the other is waiting for theirs. The fact that Blizzard came up with void elves and made them a playable Alliance race shows that they aknowledge the existence of the problem and that they attempted to fix it.

To say that there's not enough lore reasons why high elves should be playable for the Alliance is completely illogical and seems to be fueled with bias rather than objectivity. On the other hand, to ignore the fact that blood elves have - to my disappointment as I like the Old Horde style a thousand times more - become part of the Horde identity is illogical and selfish too because it is inconsiderate of all the players that are into blood elves.

The reason why this arguement hasn't been brought to a conclusion is because both sides are right and because Blizzard keeps stoking the flames. Blizzard hoped to resolve the arguement with void elves, but they made things much worse, even for those of us who have no interest in whatever type of elf is being talked about because two allied race slots have been used to tackle this issue and it's only been made worse.

The problem is that asking them to just be regular high elves is often denied with the "then you just want blood elves in the Alliance" argument, so to counter that people will often suggest compromises that feel like natural story developments to the high elf storyline. As exiles from a race that is known to change in contact with magic, it's not a stretch to suggest some minor alterations that keeps them mostly like high elves but still different from blood elves.

Void elves missed the mark by not being a natural continuation of the high elf storyline. Blizzard made the mistake of creating a totally new group of never-before-seen blood elves and then mutating them with a source of magic that would be normally shunned by your typical high elf.

[Sigxy]

I'm not really pro-high elf but, as I said in the past, I can't really blame the fans asking for them after Blizzard used them over and over again in Alliance content.

What seems odd to me though are the various "let's add them but slightly different" requests: Storm Elves, Wild Elves, Celtic elves, Moon Elves, Snow Elves, Sea Elves etc.
I can understand some suggestions like making them actually Half Elves because of them mixing with Humans and change their posture or WC2 ranger tattoos as customization options (but wouldn't Blood Elves farstriders and the like have those aswell?) but what's the point of requesting High Elves if people would then go on and change them to make them "different"?

Because, hear me out, if changing them is fine as long they get in how about a High Elf changed by...the Void?
That's pretty much what Blizzard did with Void Elves, they are High (Blood) Elves who got slightly changed by somekind of energy, just like many of the requested suggestions.
What Blizzard did wrong is probably not turning those Alliance High Elves into the Void Elves we get to play.
Have them follow Alleria, get kidnapped by ethereals during a meeting or something and voilà, High Elves become Void Elves and we wouldn't be here discussing since every High Elf would be either a Blood or Void Elf, like somekind of divergent evolution path.
Blizzard chickened out of this scenario for some reasons but they can still fix it with a few lines or some small event with High Elves "converting" to the Void (and replace every High Elf npc in Stormwind and the like).

This is why I ask...what's wrong with Void Elves? Is Skin option#3 (purplish like in the artwork) not "pink" enough? I personally think they look nice.
I can understand people asking for Vanilla High Elves (unlikely as they may be) but if we really have to "change" them to make them work why would a "Storm" Elf be ok and a "Void" one not?

The problem is that they will not accept High Elves who turns into Void Elves (Nor will they accept Blood elves getting blue eyes as an option). They want to play a pretty, white-skinned elf on the Alliance side as they don't like the Horde side. Void Elves are just not white enough, not 'pure' enough.

And honestly, why people want more than 4 different playable elf types is beyond me. x_x Had one in Vanilla - had a new one in TBC.. then after all this time, we get 2 new ones in the same expansion. I don't think we need more, certainly not for the next 10 years.

Yes High Elves and Blood Elves are different races in a ideological sense. Biologically however they're the god damn same. The blue to green eyes was just a minor effect that doesn't nearly justify an allied race the same way different skin color does. Hell with Belves getting golden eyes it shows just how easily eye color can change and perhaps would open up the possibility for an "eye color option" for belf players in the future similar to orc posture.

Its like saying white Americans and White British are different races. Clearly those two cultures are very different but I dare you to tell me that they differ greatly biologically. Imagine if they gave Horde Defias Humans as an allied race and justified it because they have different beliefs and cultures or if they gave the Alliance Grimtotem Tauren for the same reason. How boring would that be after we already got Highmountain and Kul tirans.

To add to that, What would be the opposite of High Elves for the Horde Allied race, Green eyed Night elves? Because Blizzard sure as hell won't give the Horde another Alliance race while the alliance gets yet ANOTHER Thallasian model with less differences than Velves. You guys forget about that. You either give the horde a boring new allied race just like the Alliance, or you screw over the majority of Alliance players with a copy past while the horde gets something fresh like Gilgoblins or w/e.

High Elves exist where they belong and that is as NPC's. If you guys got your way then why shouldn't the special snowflakes who wants to play a Wildhammer or a Taunka or a fucking OUTLAND Mag'har because "hurr durr lore reasons" get their race too?

If they DID get their way... hoo boy.



This is the kind of stuff Blizzard makes fun out of.

Edit: Actually, I take that back - they're not pretty enough.

[FlubberPuddy]

The problem is that asking them to just be regular high elves is often denied with the "then you just want blood elves in the Alliance" argument, so to counter that people will often suggest compromises that feel like natural story developments to the high elf storyline. As exiles from a race that is known to change in contact with magic, it's not a stretch to suggest some minor alterations that keeps them mostly like high elves but still different from blood elves.

Void elves missed the mark by not being a natural continuation of the high elf storyline. Blizzard made the mistake of creating a totally new group of never-before-seen blood elves and then mutating them with a source of magic that would be normally shunned by your typical high elf.

What's funny about the people who say BOLD also don't realize that Void Elves are exactly that: Blood Elves on the Alliance. No lore so far has said High Elves are turning into Void machinations and neither has any BFA lore so far insinuated new Void Elves are being made, just that the Void Elf players at the most current time were all Blood Elves part of Magister Umbric's group.

Yet we do not see these same people who make that type of comment, being so utterly offended over Void Elves existing, one has to presume why? Is it because they're added into the game and so it doesn't matter? (An effect High elves would have as well) Or maybe because the same way they try to berate pro-helfers for "focusing on skin color only" they're fine with it because "it's not the same skin color" either therefore okay.

This also doesn't take into account that as your last statement says, Void magic would certainly fall into "dangerous chaotic magics shunned by High Elves" just as they shunned Fel magic.

So High Elves taking up the Void would just make them look like hypocrites. This isn't impossible for Blizzard to write in, but it would essentially render the whole reason for the High Elf/Blood Elf split (a prominent event for Thalassian Elves) moot. Something these so called "enjoy Blood Elves for what they are!" don't seem to understand themselves.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes High Elves and Blood Elves are different races in a ideological sense. Biologically however they're the god damn same. The blue to green eyes was just a minor effect that doesn't nearly justify an allied race the same way different skin color does. Hell with Belves getting golden eyes it shows just how easily eye color can change and perhaps would open up the possibility for an "eye color option" for belf players in the future similar to orc posture.


To add to that, What would be the opposite of High Elves for the Horde Allied race, Green eyed Night elves? Because Blizzard sure as hell won't give the Horde another Alliance race while the alliance gets yet ANOTHER Thallasian model with less differences than Velves. You guys forget about that. You either give the horde a boring new allied race just like the Alliance, or you screw over the majority of Alliance players with a copy past while the horde gets something fresh like Gilgoblins or w/e.

What your first BOLD misunderstands is that after the Gold Eye change they also internally changed the file names for the High Elf skins so that the world doesn't proliferate High Elves with Gold Eyes nor Blood Elves with Blue eyes any longer. Something that happened a few times in the past.

Therefore closing the possibility of Blue Eye Blood Elves and further using the Blue Eyes to indicate "Hey, this is a High Elf" going forward. This is why the Blue eye Blood Elf requests died on the official forums as well, once the change was made.

And as for your last bold, I guarantee High Elves being added as an Allied Race won't "screw over Alliance" while Horde gets Gilgoblins. There's not even much hype for Gilgoblins compared to Undead Elves (oh look at it, another Elf variant that Horde players want).

People just need to face it: Elves are popular, don't let the small community of this website color your experience, most people don't care about all these minute details we're all posting over.

Just the big picture, which is what Blizzard looks at as well.

[DeicideUH]

So High Elves taking up the Void would just make them look like hypocrites. This isn't impossible for Blizzard to write in, but it would essentially render the whole reason for the High Elf/Blood Elf split (a prominent event for Thalassian Elves) moot. Something these so called "enjoy Blood Elves for what they are!" don't seem to understand themselves.

Indeed. I think the reason Blizzard chose to make void elves an entirely new group is that it was decided they'd explore the Void, but that wouldn't make any sense if they were high elves. So, they made Umbric and his followers.

IMO, void elves could have been made more tolerable if more thought had been put into their storyline. For one, I'd make a large group of them be a Silver Covenant squad and other high elves (specially some from Allerian Stronghold) that were helping Alleria locate Umbric and were caught in the incident, so they were forcefully transformed without ever dealing with the void. That, from the get-go, would help with a lot of things, like explaining where void elf warriors and hunters come from, why are there so many void elves and immediately making void elves fall into two opposing camps: blood elves that studied the void and high elves that were just victims of an event outside their control.

[FlubberPuddy]

Indeed. I think the reason Blizzard chose to make void elves an entirely new group is that it was decided they'd explore the Void, but that wouldn't make any sense if they were high elves. So, they made Umbric and his followers.

IMO, void elves could have been made more tolerable if more thought had been put into their storyline. For one, I'd make a large group of them be a Silver Covenant squad and other high elves (specially some from Allerian Stronghold) that were helping Alleria locate Umbric and were caught in the incident, so they were forcefully transformed without ever dealing with the void. That, from the get-go, would help explain with a lot of things, like explaining where void elf warriors and hunters come from, why are there so many void elves and immediately making void elves fall into two opposing camps: blood elves that studied the void and high elves that were just victims of an event outside their control.

And if that were to happen I personally wouldn't be here rallying for ACTUAL High Elves to be added, as I'd understand this was their story going forward.

As it is now, Blizzard basically created 3 types of Thalassian Elves now: High Elves, Blood Elves, and Void Elves now.

[Varx]

The only reason this is even a debate is due to the two names for one race. If all the high elves decided to rename them selves blood elves in respect to those killed by the scourge but keep all their current beliefs and alliegences then pro high elfers' argument would completely fall apart.

Being a "blood" elf means you are honoring your dead people.

[DeicideUH]

The only reason this is even a debate is due to the two names for one race. If all the high elves decided to rename them selves blood elves in respect to those killed by the scourge but keep all their current beliefs and alliegences then pro high elfers' argument would completely fall apart.

Being a "blood" elf means you are honoring your dead people.

But they didn't rename themselves, and in doing so they rejected the new path their race took. That was a cultural division that also made them not be tainted by fel, which was a physical division. High elves exist, they are in the Alliance and they rejected the blood elf path, that's the point.

[Varx]

But they didn't rename themselves, and in doing so they rejected the new path their race took. That was a cultural division that also made them not be tainted by fel, which was a physical division. High elves exist, they are in the Alliance and they rejected the blood elf path, that's the point.

The fel story and is a thing of the past and is no longer relevant. Also the fell taint was not even a significant change.

Culture changes does not justify a playable race. If it did then blood/high elves would be like pandas.

Also answer me this are draenie and uncorrupted eredar different races? The answer is no. Imagine how dumb it would be if horde players demanded uncorrupted eredar since they are"different"

[FlubberPuddy]

Also answer me this are draenie and uncorrupted eredar different races? The answer is no. Imagine how dumb it would be if horde players demanded uncorrupted eredar since they are"different"

You mean like Mag'har and regular Orcs? Where Mag'har literally means "uncorruped". Nice.

Also there are Horde players that ask for Alliance races, like Horde side used to ask for Dark Irons, Red Eredar (which are basically Red Draenei), and the more recently Alterac Humans.

Only difference is Alliance players don't throw a hissy fit and instead go "Yeah sure if it makes sense"

[Traveler Voltin]

But they didn't rename themselves, and in doing so they rejected the new path their race took. That was a cultural division that also made them not be tainted by fel, which was a physical division. High elves exist, they are in the Alliance and they rejected the blood elf path, that's the point.

you really need to learn blood elf before talking out your butt.

[Friendlyimmolation]

You mean like Mag'har and regular Orcs? Where Mag'har literally means "uncorruped". Nice.

Also there are Horde players that ask for Alliance races, like Horde side used to ask for Dark Irons, Red Eredar (which are basically Red Draenei), and the more recently Alterac Humans.

Only difference is Alliance players don't throw a hissy fit and instead go "Yeah sure if it makes sense"

Nearly 350 pages of of this thread alone laugh at that silly statement.

Point out where Horde players constantly demand for this things and cry out that they deserve them as a race for years.

Also blood elves are no where near as corrupted as the orcs were, not to mention unlike the orcs, the blood elves reverse the effects the fel had on them with the Sunwell. The high elf split is only political.

[FlubberPuddy]

[/B]

Nearly 350 pages of of this thread alone laugh at that silly statement.

Point out where Horde players constantly demand for this things and cry out that they deserve them as a race for years.

Also blood elves are no where near as corrupted as the orcs were, not to mention unlike the orcs, the blood elves reverse the effects the fel had on them with the Sunwell. The high elf split is only political.

Oh you mean 350 pages of this thread full of the same people on both sides that can't back down? Sounds like another thread currently more active than this one

No one asks for anything "constantly" it's just the High Elf thing is highlighted right now due to getting Void Elves. I guarantee you if Void Elves weren't added there wouldn't be this much talk of High Elves that exploded after the fact.

Throughout the years of WoW High Elves have been a pretty frequent request, but it has come up that Horde players have asked for some Alliance races as well.

You can go ahead and read through this thread where the recent Alterac Human reddit thread was leaked.

I'm not gonna waste my time searching for evidence that's pretty easy to find and has been discussed to death.

And Blood Elves didn't reverse any effects, they just received a different magic source that doesn't require them to rely on Fel to feed their addiction.

If they were reversed they'd be reverting back to blue eyes and no mark of Fel would be a part of them. As it is, only Blood Elf Paladin and Priest NPCs will have the new Golden eyes, there will still be fel eyed Blood Elf NPCs because guess what? That's part of their people/culture.

[Varx]

You mean like Mag'har and regular Orcs? Where Mag'har literally means "uncorruped". Nice.

What exactly was you point with this? Regular Orcs are corrupted which is their distinction between them and the Mag'har, hence Mag'har being an allied race. Eredar and Draenie have no biological differences which is my point with Blood and High Elves.

[Deleted]

But they didn't rename themselves, and in doing so they rejected the new path their race took. That was a cultural division that also made them not be tainted by fel, which was a physical division. High elves exist, they are in the Alliance and they rejected the blood elf path, that's the point.

Lulwut? The high elf/blood elf divide had nothing to do with fel magic. Per the UVG (the only official source since 2007 that's talked about Alliance HEs at all), most of the high elves in the Alliance today have been there since the Second War, because they disagreed with Quel'Thalas' isolationist policy and wanted to remain with their friends in the Alliance. They gave up their culture to integrate into the various kingdoms of the Alliance. Elisande derided them for bastardizing their bloodline because of this. Even Ion referenced this when talking about their lack of racial identity and their sparse pockets of population.

It honestly blows my mind how you guys can pull so hard for this race without even really doing basic reading on their actual lore. Even the EPL high elves exiled by Lor'themar never claimed to be against fel or "dangerous magic". They simply found the act of draining mana from living things immoral. They could easily embrace the void without being hypocrites, because this narrative you and others have pushed on them is pure fan invention.

Only difference is Alliance players don't throw a hissy fit

You must be joking. You yourself having a conniption across this thread over the possibility of blue eyes for blood elves ("never gonna happen! it's impossible! just give up asking!" remind you of someone? ) gives the lie to this.

[FlubberPuddy]

What exactly was you point with this? Regular Orcs are corrupted which is their distinction between them and the Mag'har, hence Mag'har being an allied race. Eredar and Draenie have no biological differences which is my point with Blood and High Elves.

Given that Blood Elf children are born with Fel eyes it looks like there is a biological difference, but slight. Just like the skin difference between Mag'har and Green Orcs.

Hell the Orcish culture of Mag'har are the same as current Green Orcs, so while High Elves and Blood Elves are physically and politically different, Orcs are just physically different yet that's enough to have them playable yet not enough to have High Elves on Alliance playable?

Yeah that's pretty much a great example of splitting hairs: Skin color is enough of a difference, but eye color isn't to make playable.

- - - Updated - - -

You must be joking. You yourself having a conniption across this thread over the possibility of blue eyes for blood elves ("never gonna happen! it's impossible! just give up asking!" remind you of someone? ) gives the lie to this.

You must've missed the post after where I said this one thread is full of the same type of people who won't back down, that doesn't mean there's an army of Alliance players "throwing a hissy fit" as you and Friendly like to imply. I also never excluded myself when I typed that line, so I don't see the point you're trying to make.

Also read my earlier post about how they've changed the files to ensure Blue Eye Blood Elves don't happen.

So easy it is to see anti-helfers just jumping at the bits to find someone and go "Ah ha! I got you now!"