Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[DeicideUH]

There are great differences between Night Elves and Nightborne. What difference are there physically between High Elves and Blood Elves besides having to zoom to your face to see it.

There's whole threads dealing with this subject. Check them out. It's just as FlubberPuddy said:

Which is why the pro-helf group, who want to still play High Elves said, "Ok if eye color isn't enough how about all these other things in terms of looks that still follow High Elf thematics be added too" and thus threads like this one were born with fan concepts showing further extra differentiation that would VISUALLY differentiate High Elves from Blood Elves but still keep their lore as a people the same.

Then you have the antagonizers coming in and saying "but but but if you change then it's not a High Elf!" and round and round the wheels go of "Ok we'll just keep them the same look it doesn't matter" and "but then you can't have exactly Blood Elves!"

That's how retarded the circular arguments are and why I try to avoid them. But as I said before in another post, it's so easy to see how quickly some anti-helfers just want to jump on someone's comments and go "ha! I've proved you wrong!!!"

We suggest a ton of possibilities to make high elves different. People shoot them down as "not canon"/"impossible".

Heck, void elves almost hit the mark but failed because their lore was badly put together.

[FlubberPuddy]

There are great differences between Night Elves and Nightborne. What difference are there physically between High Elves and Blood Elves besides having to zoom to your face to see it.

Yet players have commented saying they thought what was a Night elf they ran past actually turned out to be a Nightborne, so the differences don't matter much at all.

It's easier and more sense to go-

Alliance: "Oh enemy purple elf? Nightborne"
Horde: "Oh enemy purple elf? Night elf"

Alliance: "Oh enemy pale elf? Blood Elf"
Horde: "Oh enemy pale elf? High Elf"

Unless you'd like to say you personally wouldn't be able to tell differences in-game yourself. Then by all means do so.

[Sluvs]

Which is why the pro-helf group, who want to still play High Elves said, "Ok if eye color isn't enough how about all these other things in terms of looks that still follow High Elf thematics be added too" and thus threads like this one were born with fan concepts showing further extra differentiation that would VISUALLY differentiate High Elves from Blood Elves but still keep their lore as a people the same.

Then you have the antagonizers coming in and saying "but but but if you change then it's not a High Elf!" and round and round the wheels go of "Ok we'll just keep them the same look it doesn't matter" and "but then you can't have exactly Blood Elves!"

That's how retarded the circular arguments are and why I try to avoid them. But as I said before in another post, it's so easy to see how quickly some anti-helfers just want to jump on someone's comments and go "ha! I've proved you wrong!!!"

That is a fair argument, but there almost nothing that could be added to the HE customization that would not be able to be added to BE. And that is an important point. The design space there is very tiny, if there is any of it all. Unless you are suggesting that 100% new lore is created, like they becoming Lightforged or something. But then, would that really satisfy the crowd? they did try to do that with the void elves and it was not that well received by that crowd.

Let's do a little thought exercise here, what if in patch 8.1 they decided to have Alleria teach ALL THE HIGH ELVES void magic and turn them into VE, making the bulk of VE high elves, would you be okay with that? Or would you still want a Fair skinned elf in the alliance?

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High Elves have been much more longer requested than Transmog, the changes to PVP/PVE servers happening in BFA, same server Alliance and Horde, Vanilla Servers etc etc (basically any long time request is where i"m getting at that had people saying those are terrible ideas)

I'm pretty confident they would be a good idea, also "calm down"? who's uncalm?

Thats because HE has a obstacle that cannot be solved by coding or technical limitations of the time. The obstacle is the faction system and reusing assets and saying that they are new. It's way different.

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Anything in the game pretty much would bring more lore to the game than Void Elves...they were just a asspull to troll players.

That is just a wrong. You might not like the lore, that is fine. But they brought new lore with the VE, a new faction of elves that is corrupted by the void and trying to find their way in this new world while dealing with the alliance and listening to crazy whispers? Not to mention the new VE leaders and the locust walkers. That IS new lore, might be bad lore, might be lore that is not as deep, but it is lore.

I personally find it interesting.

[Kithelle]

snip

There is no lore besides they're former Blood Elves who chose to follow the call of the void and were exiled...there is no lore beyond that.

[Sluvs]

There is no lore besides they're former Blood Elves who chose to follow the call of the void and were exiled...there is no lore beyond that.

So there is lore, you are just trying to ignore it? Got it.

[FlubberPuddy]

That is a fair argument, but there almost nothing that could be added to the HE customization that would not be able to be added to BE. And that is an important point. The design space there is very tiny, if there is any of it all. Unless you are suggesting that 100% new lore is created, like they becoming Lightforged or something. But then, would that really satisfy the crowd? they did try to do that with the void elves and it was not that well received by that crowd.

Let's do a little thought exercise here, what if in patch 8.1 they decided to have Alleria teach ALL THE HIGH ELVES void magic and turn them into VE, making the bulk of VE high elves, would you be okay with that? Or would you still want a Fair skinned elf in the alliance?

This bold is wrong. Blood Elves as a society wouldn't put twigs in their hair and dirty up themselves like former looks of Warcraft 2 High Elves nor the fan art made by various posters here and exampled in the OP. Ion said, "if you want a pale, blonde haired, majestic elf - that is a Blood Elf" and this is not how High Elves on Alliance have come across, they're even given the less proud NE voice speaks because the BE voice chats sound more uppity.

Therefore the more wilderness vibe looks, and tattoos, etc accounting for further differentiation wouldn't be given to Blood Elves.

Another thing to look at is, Blizzard can do whatever they want to differentiate them, this is already shown by Void Elf male Facial hair, much different designs than Blood Elf facial hair, yet facial hair isn't unique/special to one side but Blizzard made it so. I've seen Blood Elves male players already asking for VE male facial hair, so the asking has already begun.

As Bjoramier points out, Blizzard can always add whatever lore they want to justify anything they add into the game. The purpose most pro-helfers had is that "Blizzard doesn't need to add lore because there's already exhibits A, B, C, D etc that exist."

I'm sure it would satisfy the crowd. Do you want to know why Void Elves didn't? Because it's as you said "that crowd". High Elf fans want High Elves. What they got weren't even High Elves, they were Blood Elves. If High Elf fans wanted to play the Blood Elves they would've joined them so many years ago.

If High Elf fans wanted to play Blood Elves on the Alliance then they would've all played Void Elves and none of these threads would exist.

It's just like the Zandalari, when they were found to be shorter in height or missing that back toe, did you see the bitch fits over that? People want the races they love to be true to their core.

Void Elves aren't even that in the personality sense. They're straight up what Blood Elves were in TBC before the end of TBC made Blood Elves more vanilla. Void Elves are the new pragmatic elves that use a chaotic magic and try to control it, doesn't that sound familar to Blood Elves at the beginning of TBC?

High Elves aren't like that at all.

As for your thought exercise, I've already went on record to say that if Void Elves were introduced as the Alliance High Elves turned Void then I wouldn't be here asking for High Elves. Because I understand that "Ok this doesn't really make sense but I guess this is the High Elf story going forward."

Yet continually any new lore so far brought up about Void Elves is that they're de-facto Blood Elves. Even after people were riding the whole "there's High Elves in the starting area! Your Void Elf can be a High Elf too!"

Yet newest info about player Void Elves is that they're all Blood Elves that followed Magister Umbric, since his dialogue is specifically about the player character Void Elf. It goes back to "just imagine you're a High Elf then"

To which I'd say "just imagine you're a Dark Iron" "just imagine you're mag'har" as you play your bronzebeard dwarf, or green orc. There's a difference between the game supporting something you are and when you have to use "imagination". If this wasn't something then we wouldn't be getting race variants in the first place.

I'm explaining all this to you now because it's already been repeated ad-naseum throughout the thread but you seem to be a latecomer.

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Thats because HE has a obstacle that cannot be solved by coding or technical limitations of the time. The obstacle is the faction system and reusing assets and saying that they are new. It's way different.

The entire Allied Race system is reusing assets, painting it different, and calling it new. It's not different at all. HMT are Tauren with moose antlers and tattoos, that's it visually. They're still reusing everything else Tauren related. Same for Lightforged Draenei, and Mag'har Orc and Void Elves.

This is also why Blizzard can give posture options to old green Orcs, because they came up with it when designing the Mag'har.

Just like Blood Elves got lip fixes and new faces, it's because both Void Elf and Blood Elf share the same assets, which is why when the lip fix was applied to Blood Elves it was also applied to Void Elves, because Blizzard was actually working on it for Void Elves. Same with their bow shooting animation and moving around.

The only differences visually are just that, visuals. An "easy" thing in terms of coming up with High Elf visual differences.

For instance, all this speculation and fan concept of High Elf wild tattoos, feathers in hair, etc. I guarantee you will never see that ever for Blood Elves, even if High Elves weren't ever to become playable, because it's just not a part of their visual aesthetics and design intent that Blizzard decided for them.

Kul'Tiran, and Zandalari are greater differentiations. But at their "laziest" (HMT/LFD/Mag'har/VE) we can see there's just visual differences and nothing inherently different about the models themselves for certain Allied Races.

[felrager]

How in god's name is this thread still going after they've straight up said they aren't doing it. They said high elves are so rare as most Caucasian elves are blood elves and they'd use the exact same model so there'd be no telling them apart. We got void elves. How is that not the end of this discussion? Mother of god find something else to argue about.

[Sluvs]

This bold is wrong. Blood Elves as a society wouldn't put twigs in their hair and dirty up themselves like former looks of Warcraft 2 High Elves nor the fan art made by various posters here and exampled in the OP. Ion said, "if you want a pale, blonde haired, majestic elf - that is a Blood Elf" and this is not how High Elves on Alliance have come across, they're even given the less proud NE voice speaks because the BE voice chats sound more uppity.

Therefore the more wilderness vibe looks, and tattoos, etc accounting for further differentiation wouldn't be given to Blood Elves.

Another thing to look at is, Blizzard can do whatever they want to differentiate them, this is already shown by Void Elf male Facial hair, much different designs than Blood Elf facial hair, yet facial hair isn't unique/special to one side but Blizzard made it so. I've seen Blood Elves male players already asking for VE male facial hair, so the asking has already begun.

As Bjoramier points out, Blizzard can always add whatever lore they want to justify anything they add into the game. The purpose most pro-helfers had is that "Blizzard doesn't need to add lore because there's already exhibits A, B, C, D etc that exist."

I'm sure it would satisfy the crowd. Do you want to know why Void Elves didn't? Because it's as you said "that crowd". High Elf fans want High Elves. What they got weren't even High Elves, they were Blood Elves. If High Elf fans wanted to play the Blood Elves they would've joined them so many years ago.

If High Elf fans wanted to play Blood Elves on the Alliance then they would've all played Void Elves and none of these threads would exist.

It's just like the Zandalari, when they were found to be shorter in height or missing that back toe, did you see the bitch fits over that? People want the races they love to be true to their core.

Void Elves aren't even that in the personality sense. They're straight up what Blood Elves were in TBC before the end of TBC made Blood Elves more vanilla. Void Elves are the new pragmatic elves that use a chaotic magic and try to control it, doesn't that sound familar to Blood Elves at the beginning of TBC?

High Elves aren't like that at all.

As for your thought exercise, I've already went on record to say that if Void Elves were introduced as the Alliance High Elves turned Void then I wouldn't be here asking for High Elves. Because I understand that "Ok this doesn't really make sense but I guess this is the High Elf story going forward."

Yet continually any new lore so far brought up about Void Elves is that they're de-facto Blood Elves. Even after people were riding the whole "there's High Elves in the starting area! Your Void Elf can be a High Elf too!"

Yet newest info about player Void Elves is that they're all Blood Elves that followed Magister Umbric, since his dialogue is specifically about the player character Void Elf. It goes back to "just imagine you're a High Elf then"

To which I'd say "just imagine you're a Dark Iron" "just imagine you're mag'har" as you play your bronzebeard dwarf, or green orc. There's a difference between the game supporting something you are and when you have to use "imagination". If this wasn't something then we wouldn't be getting race variants in the first place.

I'm explaining all this to you now because it's already been repeated ad-naseum throughout the thread but you seem to be a latecomer.

I am indeed a late comer. But lets get down to it.

I do not think that is how it works with the wild things and what not, the rangers in silvermoon are pretty wild and if i remember correctly, they are looked down because of that. Not to mention tattoos can be elegant too. So I don't see that much design space left honestly.

Btw, I'm 100% okay with blizz creating new lore to justify it. But that lore would need to make them little more different than BE.

So, what you really want is the HE lore to progress right? That is more reasonable. And more possible, but with recent development, I doubt that they would make HE playable anytime soon.


While I do understand your point and some do have some ground, I cannot agree with you. I do not think it would be good for the game to reuse the assets and I doubt that they will do it in the near future. I do see they developing the lore to a point where HE are reincorporated in the BEs or into the VEs.

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Not to mention that I dont see the high elves as wild as you see them. They still use arcane, their "embasy" of sorts basically was in dalaran (The most magical city of all) for a long time. We kinda already have wild elves, they are the NE.

[Aldo Hawk]

Ok fine you wanna use the RTS's. Night Elves were a neutral race in Warcraft 3. There are many neutral Night Elves in WoW, many of which are not aligned with Darnassus or the teachings of elune. Why can't the horde have Night Elves.

Proper night elves would be nice on the horde, why not? if there is a good explain on that i would take it.

However, what you said does not apply to what has been discussed here, simply for the reason that we can't find Night Elves aligned with the horde in any manner so your example simply falls apart.

[FlubberPuddy]

Btw, I'm 100% okay with blizz creating new lore to justify it. But that lore would need to make them little more different than BE.

So, what you really want is the HE lore to progress right? That is more reasonable. And more possible, but with recent development, I doubt that they would make HE playable anytime soon.


While I do understand your point and some do have some ground, I cannot agree with you. I do not think it would be good for the game to reuse the assets and I doubt that they will do it in the near future. I do see they developing the lore to a point where HE are reincorporated in the BEs or into the VEs.

Indeed it seems High Elf lore needs to be progressed in order for them to happen as a playable race IF it were to even happen in the first place, and of course it won't happen anytime soon, just as any other race that has already gotten an AR variant won't have another so soon as well.

Some have even speculated that Blizzard is saving them around for more story down the road, where it'll take them we as players do not know.

The interesting thing about your bolded statement is that the reverse is happening actually. We've been given 3 times now the subject/topic from in-game and out of game sources about bringing the Blood Elves/Silvermoon back into the Alliance fold. Whether this is just hearsay to be hearsay or something actually comes of it, we don't know until further stories occur with the Thalassian elves.

[DeicideUH]

It was a mistake by blizzard and they never corrected it

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The problem is, canonically, they did neither of those things.

You are deluding yourself if you think it was "a mistake" and these things didn't happen canonically. Just because it's early TBC lore doesn't mean these things weren't retconned. It was confirmed in old Q&As, and even canon stories like "Under the Shadow of the Sun" reference the eyes, citing high elf eyes as "unpolluted".

Blood elf fel usage was real, and it's part of their distinct visuals. It's part of their identity during the "Dark Times", they may have moved on from it, but it was there.

[Sigxy]

Whoa, calm down, you cannot spout those number and "be pretty confident" using only your guts. Also, the only backlash for the void elves that I saw came from the high elf community, so let's ease up on the certainty that high elves would be a good idea.

It's not much worth bothering them when it gets to numbers. I was told by people, this person included, that adding high elves would give Blizzard a -lot of money-. Never did prove it with real numbers and when I kept asking, I was just shut down and never got the answer. :<

For nearly seven thousand years, the High Elves cultivated a shining magical kingdom deep within the forests of northern Lordaeron. But five years ago, the undead Scourge invaded Quel'Thalas and drove the Elves to the brink of extinction. Led by the evil Death Knight Arthas, the Scourge destroyed the mystical Sunwell, thereby severing the Elves from the source of their arcane power. Though the scars of that conflict are evident, the remaining Elves have banded together and retaken much of their homeland. Calling themselves “blood elves”, these grim survivors are committed to regaining the vast powers they once commanded. Inspired by the leadership of their beloved prince, Kael'thas Sunstrider, the Blood Elves now seek out new sources of arcane magic and the means of defending their land against the undying horrors of the Scourge.

The past few years have seen unprecedented changes within the eternal land of Quel'Thalas. The blood elves, following the will of their crazed leader Kael'thas Sunstrider channeled dangerous chaotic magics to transform their sacred Sunwell into a gateway of unspeakable evil. While Kael'thas and his demonic masters were eventually defeated, a different kind of transformation occurred within the Sunwell itself, as a dying Naaru sacrificed its life essence to reignite the Sunwell into a fount of holy energy.
Now the blood Elf regent Lor'themar Theron sees a new hope on the horizon for his people. Over time, the Sunwell's light could cure the blood elves of their cursed state, but many still cling to the arcane powers they procured and are hesitant to relinquish them. As one of the remaining blood elves, you must fight to protect Quel'Thalas and help redeem the soul of your ancient people.

And not once did it say they were using fel - just seeking out "new sources of arcane magic" (living beings)! Closest is what people here pointed out - they used fel to rebuild, that was it. Thanks for linking!

[DeicideUH]

For nearly seven thousand years, the High Elves cultivated a shining magical kingdom deep within the forests of northern Lordaeron. But five years ago, the undead Scourge invaded Quel'Thalas and drove the Elves to the brink of extinction. Led by the evil Death Knight Arthas, the Scourge destroyed the mystical Sunwell, thereby severing the Elves from the source of their arcane power. Though the scars of that conflict are evident, the remaining Elves have banded together and retaken much of their homeland. Calling themselves “blood elves”, these grim survivors are committed to regaining the vast powers they once commanded. Inspired by the leadership of their beloved prince, Kael'thas Sunstrider, the Blood Elves now seek out new sources of arcane magic and the means of defending their land against the undying horrors of the Scourge.

The past few years have seen unprecedented changes within the eternal land of Quel'Thalas. The blood elves, following the will of their crazed leader Kael'thas Sunstrider channeled dangerous chaotic magics to transform their sacred Sunwell into a gateway of unspeakable evil. While Kael'thas and his demonic masters were eventually defeated, a different kind of transformation occurred within the Sunwell itself, as a dying Naaru sacrificed its life essence to reignite the Sunwell into a fount of holy energy.
Now the blood Elf regent Lor'themar Theron sees a new hope on the horizon for his people. Over time, the Sunwell's light could cure the blood elves of their cursed state, but many still cling to the arcane powers they procured and are hesitant to relinquish them. As one of the remaining blood elves, you must fight to protect Quel'Thalas and help redeem the soul of your ancient people.

So what? Just because the intros don't talk about fel magic does not mean it was not there.
You can't deny the green eyes. It's in their very identity.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ask_CDev#A...wers_-_Round_3

How did the blood elven fel eye glint become so widespread?

The Warcraft Encyclopedia suggests that Rommath only taught the blood elves of Azeroth about how to siphon arcane magic, as most of the populace would likely be "horrified" if they knew the true extent of Kael's dealings with Illidan.

The situation regarding blood elf eyes is, in fact, extremely similar to that of the green skin of orcs: just being around heavy use of fel magic turned the eyes of the blood elves green. You could be the most pious of priests or most outdoorsy of Farstriders, chances are, if you were a high elf in Quel'Thalas or Outland following the Third War, you were around fel energies, and your eyes would turn green. Like the orcs' skin color, such an effect would take a very long time to wear off. Fel magic works a bit like radiation in this sense; it permeates the area and seeps into anything in the vicinity. Anything near a source of fel magic shows signs of slight corruption, it just so happens that high elves and orcs manifest it in a very visual way.

Blizzard may have tried to sweep the thing under the rug, but it's there. It has been referenced in sources.

Even as late as Mists of Pandaria there were references to it:

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:What%27s_in_the_Box%3F

As Rommath says:
This Korune device is similar to the fel crystals we once used to enslave demonic energies. Demon or angry spirit or elemental manifestation of an emotion, the principle is relatively the same.

So, like it or not, blood elves using fel in some capacity is canon. Blizzard needs to update/clarify exactly how it was used, but at some point fel power was very common in Quel'thalas. Common enough to taint their eyes, just like the renewed Sunwell is not turning their eyes golden.

[Lumineus]

channeled dangerous chaotic magics

Translation: used the Fel, sorry we didn't hit you over the head with it

This is the post-Cataclysm intro.

[Varx]

Even if they accept it or not Lore-wise High Elves are a dying breed, the Sin'dorie and Ren'dorie are the continuation of the Quel'dorie story. I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard kills off the remaining HE's to solidify this further. Giving HE's to players is only regressing their story.

Regardless I refuse this to be a lore issue. Whether they admit it or not I know that this is a matter of wanting fair skin thalasian elves on Alliance due to rejecting the savage nature of the Horde. I know because I was there.

I remember when I first started playing in TBC. I wanted to play a Paladin in a classic heroic setting but didn't want to be a human dwarf or draenie. Blood Elves were cool but were on the red team and it bugged me for a while. It didn't help when I first saw the Zul'Aman trailer and started reading up on High Elf Lore. Not once however did I expect Blizzard to introduce High Elves as a race though. I simply wished Belves were never a Horde race to begin with.

I just can't fathom how you guys think its ok to make High Elves a race when the differences are so insignificant when compared to the other AR's. Also, not one person has given me a legit response to what the Horde would get as the HE opposite without screwing the alliance player base who are not familiar with HE lore.

[Lumineus]

Also, not one person has given me a legit response to what the Horde would get as the HE opposite without screwing the alliance player base who are not familiar with HE lore.

Well, that's hard since they already got an identical-palette Alliance race and apparently that wasn't enough of a trade. Man'ari Eredar would seem like the obvious choice, otherwise.

[Varx]

Well, that's hard since they already got an identical-palette Alliance race and apparently that wasn't enough of a trade. Man'ari Eredar would seem like the obvious choice, otherwise.

So the horde gets the Draenie model while the Alliance gets the Thalasian model again? That's ok for you?

Also why the hell would the Man'ari join the horde? You guys are salty for VE's coming from nowhere and yet having the same happen for the horde is ok so you can get your HE's? Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'd suggest Ogres for the Horde counterpart. That would compete the Warcraft 2 horse and alliance:
A: Human, Dwarf, Gnome, Elf
H: Orc, Troll, Goblin, Ogre

So Horde gets a brand new fresh race, rig and everything, and Alliance gets HE's....

come on guys...

[Varx]

Not really. Ogres were done new in WoD. It would be reused assets.

omg...

I'm talking about PLAYABLE RACES.

As a PLAYABLE RACE Ogres would be complete new, rig and everything. Just like when Belves, Draenie, Goblins, Worgen, and Pandas were introduced.

Alliance: Thalasian model AGAIN

Horde: Brand new race (Ogres) / New skin (Gilgoblin, Man'ari, etc)

Is there nothing wrong with this god damn picture?

For once people take off your Warcraft 2 Fanboy goggles and use simple logic and common sense.

If i was an Alliance player and saw that we were getting High Elves after already getting Void Elves, while the Horde gets something fresh, then I would be livid.

[Varx]

Their assets wouldnt be all new. But your argument is once reused is fine, but twice isn't. And I'm not taking on behalf of anyone but myself

They would be new to players not to the game as a whole, no.

Correct, twice isn't fine. This is why I'm also against all those variations of dwarves and trolls. Allied Races weren't made to simply make all bipedal races on Azeroth playable. Imagine how ridiculous the character creation screen would look with 5 troll options, 4 dwarf options, 50 million elf options, etc.

But HE's are beyond the "twice" argument. They would fall under the "copy paste unless you enjoy looking at your toon's eyes for 90% of your playtime" argument.

[Varx]

Both, Ogres and Helves, would still have to be developed more. Jokes, flirts, commentary, dances, start area, questline for allied race, 1-20 for regular race, mounts, etc.

And UI ergonomics isn't an argument against additional player customization.

And you're wrong about trolls. Zandalari are a completely new model, as are Kul'tirans. The other six ARs are still unique skins and additional content.

Zandalari and Kul Tirans are an exception to the rule and yet it only applies to the males. Females are reskins.

I'm only using the UI as an example of how silly it would be to take advantage of AR's to make so many races playable just because they exist. It's too much of a good thing.

HE's can have different emotes and w/e but it doesn't change the fact that it's ANOTHER thalasian model that is hardly different from its parent race, unlike Velves.

Ogres on the other hand are completely new to playable races.

No matter how you spin it it ends up with Horde players benefiting more than the Alliance players.