Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Magnagarde]

Can't we just have the Silver Covenant disband? Seriously. Give Blood Elves a blue eye tint, kill Vareesa, have them welcomed back in to Quel'Thalas. Then blow up Dalaran. Problem solved.

It's always a human city-state that gets blown up or a clan of orcs that gets villainized lol think some other epilogue would be better

[The Anax]

So, out of curiosity, has all your banter and such caused them to put blue eyes on the Blood Elves yet? I only ask because it's 349 pages in and we already know the High Elves are Horde, so I am greatly confused. I distinctly recall this being brought to light by Ion several months ago, can anyone confirm playable High Elves outside of Horde?

[FlubberPuddy]

So, out of curiosity, has all your banter and such caused them to put blue eyes on the Blood Elves yet?

Yeah they're called Void Elves those are the Blue Eye Blood Elves since they were Blood Elves and have Blue Eyes now.

[baskev]

@baskev So you admit that blood elves are high elves then? If you want some more ingame stuff feel free to read the actual official blood elf page on blizzards website: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/races/blood-elf

They where once. And yes its a nice page. But its conflicts with what has been seen ingame. And and funny you side step the whole ingame suramar bit i showed .

Most notably:
"As a result, Kael’thas desperately searched for a means to help his people—whom he had renamed the blood elves—and thus he set out for the shattered world of Outland. "
It's been the same dialog since the blood elves were introduced back in TBC, and summarizes the events of warcraft 3, both of which happened long long long before Ion joined blizzard, it is not just his opinion that blood elves are high elves, it is the exact story that blizzard as a whole, back in early 2000's wrote for them.

His people...the one's that followed him. There have been a lot of high elves ingame. They even have different appearance. And all your bla bla is null and void. INGAME they have been named ( in suramar) to be 3 different elf factions, Night, High and blood elves.

I am not even going to bother with the rest because it's all opinionated nonsense where you think that there is some horde bias simply because you personally dislike some things in the game. The same game that has had an actual raid tier dedicated to raiding the hordes capital city to kill their second warchief, then kill off their third warchief right after being initiated simply to even up the fact that the alliance were going to lose their king as a part of the plot line to appease people like yourself who have it in their heads that 'factions are not allowed to lose something unless the other faction loses something, unless again it is their faction that doesn't lose anything then by all means screw the other faction because i do not play it'.

They are not dislikes. if 1 person gets 1 gold coin and the other 10....then its unbalanced.
Yes horde has a warchief problem.
And yes it shows your mentality towards other players. You just think HAHAHA stupid alliance pundit. While i agree with the warchief changes of power a bit to quick.
And yes it was in the horde capitol and later raids where horde or horde species at their center ( nighthold). That is my whole point. Positive or negative for the horde, the story was still about them. we Got horde at the end of/half way truh MoP, whole of WoD was horde, Legion with 2 races added to the horde was pretty much completely horde. Only the last patch had some alliance stuff. So story focus is still horde.

This is pretty much the end of the discussion for me because it will be like talking to a brick wall, especially reading your signature where you come across as the stereotype who i genuinely thought was just a meme where people seem to completely forget that the horde and alliance are just factions in a video game, they are not real. This discussion feels like trying to debate with a flat earther or someone who thinks that there is 50+ different genders, no matter what i say will change your mind, but no matter what you say the facts will always be the same, Blood Elves are High Elves.

[/QUOTE]
Lol i am the flat earther...you are the one who gets facts like a INGAME scene and just thinks...nope not watching or agreeing with it. And i have proven my facts ( horde bias and high elf stuff) you have just talked about your emotions etc. Come with facts. Proof to me that 1 faction getting 3 horse mounts that we already vs 1 faction getting 3 new type if animal mounts is the same. You can not. That is why you are running away .

[Sluvs]

Wow...are you so desperately clinging to straws that you think a single line makes real lore? Because that is it...a single line of text can explain the "lore" of the Void Elves...don't even need a full sentence...just a single line.

Sorry but rather kinda sad.

You are also ignoring the fact that it is builded upon estabilished lore bringing TONS of potential to current lore. Their origin story is one line. But i can condense close to all races origins to one line:

Night elves came from trolls mutated by the well of eternity.
Humans are former vrykul.
Dwarves are the earthens that were affected by the curse of flesh.
Blood elves are just night elves that changed their habits.
Gnomes are mechagnomes affected by the curse of flesh.
Worgen are humans afflicted by a curse.

See? All these races have one line origin story. Just because their origin is simple, it does not mean that it has no lore.

[DeicideUH]

Night elves came from trolls mutated by the well of eternity.
Humans are former vrykul.
Dwarves are the earthens that were affected by the curse of flesh.
Blood elves are just night elves that changed their habits.
Gnomes are mechagnomes affected by the curse of flesh.
Worgen are humans afflicted by a curse.

None of those come even close to do justice to the races.
You can't really understand night elf lore without the Well of Eternity, War of the Ancients, Elune, druids.
You can't explain human lore without delving into the seven kingdoms, the trolls wars and the wars against the Horde.
Dwarves have several clans and a major civil war.

And so on.

Summarizing the races into a single line does not work. The fact that void elves can be summed like that only shows how lacking the race is.

[Varx]

None of those come even close to do justice to the races.
You can't really understand night elf lore without the Well of Eternity, War of the Ancients, Elune, druids.
You can't explain human lore without delving into the seven kingdoms, the trolls wars and the wars against the Horde.
Dwarves have several clans and a major civil war.

And so on.

Summarizing the races into a single line does not work. The fact that void elves can be summed like that only shows how lacking the race is.

What's exactly is the problem with little lore for VE's. They're completely brand new and have the potential to expand the lore of Warcraft as a whole. That is a good thing.

moP was an asspull expansion and turned out to be solid with the new lore that it brought. Not every new feature has to be recycled from the rts's.

[DeicideUH]

What's exactly is the problem with little lore for VE's. They're completely brand new and have the potential to expand the lore of Warcraft as a whole. That is a good thing.

moP was an asspull expansion and turned out to be solid with the new lore that it brought. Not every new feature has to be recycled from the rts's.

The problem with void elves is not that they are brand new. It's that their introduction was done in a lazy manner. We had no time to know the elves that were transformed, either before or after the event. They have no important NPCs beyond Umbric, and even he was poorly developed. A slightly more complex introduction could have done them wonders and make them interesting from the get-go.

As I said a few days ago:

IMO, void elves could have been made more tolerable if more thought had been put into their storyline. For one, I'd make a large group of them be a Silver Covenant squad and other high elves (specially some from Allerian Stronghold) that were helping Alleria locate Umbric and were caught in the incident, so they were forcefully transformed without ever dealing with the void. That, from the get-go, would help with a lot of things, like explaining where void elf warriors and hunters come from, why are there so many void elves and immediately making void elves fall into two opposing camps: blood elves that studied the void and high elves that were just victims of an event outside their control.

That simple suggestion could have done them wonders, by giving them more known NPCs and varied views on the Void and the transformation.

So far, BfA still hasn't really done much to flesh the race out, but at least Umbric gets some more exposure in the Alliance campaign.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

My question here is, why are people are trying to dismantle the "high elf case" by saying there is nothing wrong with how Void Elves were introduced?

They are related issues, sure, but tangentially. Yet when people are starting to imply that Void Elves were successfully integrated it just seems you are using every argument as a anti helf launching point. Do y'all really think VE where successfully implemented? Or are you bringing that up only because you are using it as a anti high elf point?

Void Elves continue to have the most half assed implementation of any race in game, and what is worst is that they had so much more potential. They are a cool idea, but so hastily put together. And no matter how much their lore gets build up on the future (I sure hope so because I still like them) their implementation would most certainly not be retroactively made better.

The fact that we went to recruit VE before VE even existed is simply the most notorious example of how badly they were introduced into the world. HM and NB were introduced at the start of Legion, LF Draenei where a swerve, but we have had knowledge of the Army of Light for a while now so at least there was that.

VE still are just a random group of blood elves that got exiled after delving into the void, which only by sheer coincidence happened during the same time Alleria ate a Naaru and became the first Void Elf. It's just bad writing, why are people defending that?

It's not even that the VE backstory by itself is unsalvageable; it could have worked far better had Umbric and his followers been introduced earlier -maybe as Priest Hall lore- as a group of BE delving into the void against the wishes of Lor'themar and Silvermoon, maybe even make them Scryer affiliated to show they are more neutral than horde. The problem with VE will always remain that they were not build up as a group on any way, shape or form before they were introduced. -and I really mean as a group, not thematically-

[Varx]

One could argue that draenie were also introduced in a similar manner and now they're one of the alliance's most beloved races.

In fact, not only did they have 0 back story, they were just added to the game without any unlockable quest. Even worse was that they were a retcon from etablished lore.

[Sigxy]

Obelisk Kai is outright lying about the High Elf discord. Never seen such a discussion or comments in it as he suggests. Maybe in these forums as I haven't followed, but not in the High Elf discord, which I started following after Taliesin and Evitel suggested it and Alurna's thread. How would he even know unless he has a stealth account on there, which in and of itself should show how nuts he's gone over the topic if he's gone to those lengths.

Uhu...

https://i.imgur.com/loT9CqI.png

"Or wished death or unemployment on the developers. All of which has been done by the pro High Elf community."

There's screen shots from the Discord in this very thread regarding this, unless they've been removed. It's very real and absolutely true.

Webbrowser history is great at times~

[Gurluas]

One could argue that draenie were also introduced in a similar manner and now they're one of the alliance's most beloved races.

In fact, not only did they have 0 back story, they were just added to the game without any unlockable quest. Even worse was that they were a retcon from etablished lore.

Draenei weren't one trick ponies. As someone here said, if a big group of High elves also got affected alongside the Void elves, and the High elves would be seeking a cure and not embracing their Voided state, I think that would solve a lot of the issues with Void elves.

Void elves only have one source atm, and it's people who embraced the void willingly, and that's assuming the High/Blood elves in the rift can become Void elves, otherwise Void elves are uniquely Umbric's little group.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

One could argue that draenie were also introduced in a similar manner and now they're one of the alliance's most beloved races.

In fact, not only did they have 0 back story, they were just added to the game without any unlockable quest. Even worse was that they were a retcon from etablished lore.

Could one argue that? really?

Come on dude, we are talking about EXTREMELY different lore and implementation approaches.

Draenei came with 2 exclusive leveling zones that we had to know them, + all of outland, WHILE also being a retcon which means they were retroactively inserted into the continuty. Whatever personal opinion anyone has on retcon, the whole point of them is to make something a more interwoven part of the lore.

The "similarities" between the draenei introduction and the VE one is so surface level and unfitting that I wonder you really thought you have a point.

For real, Allied races work a lot different in terms of introduction as it is, they don't get their 2 leveling zones like the rest, so other means had to be found, Highmountain, Suramar and Argus function as introductory zones for these races, and that's as accurate a comparison gets, they still got a lot less than Draenei got.

Draenei where far better implemented, yet they still got pushback. Void Elves got a fraction of a fraction of that thought and care. If you wish to compare, be my guest, only shows how utterly mediocre the VE implementation is in comparison, Why would you want to compare them is beyond me.

[Darththeo]

Uhu...

https://i.imgur.com/loT9CqI.png

"Or wished death or unemployment on the developers. All of which has been done by the pro High Elf community."



Webbrowser history is great at times~

That's a bit of a stretch to say they "wished ... unemployment on the developers." They are stating their opinion he should be fired, that's not something I would classify as a wish but rather a statement that they would fire a person if they could. Also, just because you are fired doesn't make you unemployed ... it makes you jobless. You have to be out of work and seeking work to be classified as unemployed ... just saying. I know that's like splitting hairs, but it is the definition used by the Department of Labor in the United States.

[Sigxy]

That's a bit of a stretch to say they "wished ... unemployment on the developers." They are stating their opinion he should be fired, that's not something I would classify as a wish but rather a statement that they would fire a person if they could. Also, just because you are fired doesn't make you unemployed ... it makes you jobless. You have to be out of work and seeking work to be classified as unemployed ... just saying. I know that's like splitting hairs, but it is the definition used by the Department of Labor in the United States.

Yyyes it is because everyone understands that this statement meant him getting fired from the company. Although, given how many people on the discord that wanted him outright fired, wouldn't be surprised if they wanted him to remain unemployed for the rest of his life as well.

I do wonder, though, how many of the people who said they wouldn't play anymore, are still playing. '.'

And yes I still have almost all of the links. The only thing I don't have, sadly, was the side-by-side comparision of a post that was threatening, then after Aery had joined, that post was a lot less threatening.

And let's not forget the couple of times they spoke ill of Kai. >_>

[Deleted]

None of those come even close to do justice to the races.
You can't really understand night elf lore without the Well of Eternity, War of the Ancients, Elune, druids.
You can't explain human lore without delving into the seven kingdoms, the trolls wars and the wars against the Horde.
Dwarves have several clans and a major civil war.

And so on.

Summarizing the races into a single line does not work. The fact that void elves can be summed like that only shows how lacking the race is.

You cannot write a summary about the first line starting a book. Maybe give Void Elves some time to develop first, before you come here screaming bloody murder?

[Jaewalk]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.... No.more.elves.

[Sluvs]

None of those come even close to do justice to the races.
You can't really understand night elf lore without the Well of Eternity, War of the Ancients, Elune, druids.
You can't explain human lore without delving into the seven kingdoms, the trolls wars and the wars against the Horde.
Dwarves have several clans and a major civil war.

And so on.

Summarizing the races into a single line does not work. The fact that void elves can be summed like that only shows how lacking the race is.

And you cant really understand void elves without understanding the void and how it operates or how Alleria came to master the void, the same thing with lightforged draenei and the light. And we were talking about their origins, and their origins CAN be summed in one line. That was my point. You are talking about things that happened later in their storyline, so ofc they will have more substance, and VE are just beginning their story, so ofc they will have less substance.

VE might not have a lot of lore, but they do have it. And dismissing it because you don't like it, is dishonest.

[FlubberPuddy]

You cannot write a summary about the first line starting a book. Maybe give Void Elves some time to develop first, before you come here screaming bloody murder?

"developing void elves" will just be more learning about the Void itself, it won't have anything specific to do with Void Elves at all, any creature that gets affected by the Void in a similar way or tangentially similar way will have similar showings.

This is why I bet we see Locus-Walker able to share his teachings: because it's all pretty much related the same way.

It's not like the Draenei in that there's a whole sect of Void Elves on their own planet with their own civilization just waiting to be discovered.

It also doesn't take away their shoddy introduction, that will forever be a thing.

Lastly, Void Elves HAVE gotten a bit more development and what did it amount to? That they're all Blood Elves under Magister Umbric who weren't okay with joining up with the Horde and need to prove their loyalties to the Alliance.

Not sure what extra development you're trying to look for? Genuinely I am curious, from anyone who think further development will somehow help Void Elves.

Learning about the Void =/= learning about Void Elves. And the extra info we know about them so far isn't mind-blowing, if anything it just reinforced they aren't the High Elves that have been with the Alliance.

Plus they break their own rule of being an Allied Race, in that we learn about their story after we recruit them. They will always remain an outlier unless Blizzard once again decides to have players recruit an Allied Race without much story and then develop them post-recruitment. No other Allied Race does this so far. And Blizzard have time and again said Allied Races you learn about their story before recruiting them.

[DeicideUH]

You cannot write a summary about the first line starting a book. Maybe give Void Elves some time to develop first, before you come here screaming bloody murder?

Except we are not talking about the first line of a book, we are talking about the entire first chapter. And that chapter was hastily put together with no care for any details.

And you cant really understand void elves without understanding the void and how it operates or how Alleria came to master the void, the same thing with lightforged draenei and the light. And we were talking about their origins, and their origins CAN be summed in one line. That was my point. You are talking about things that happened later in their storyline, so ofc they will have more substance, and VE are just beginning their story, so ofc they will have less substance.

Oh, so all that matters is that they use the void? The story of those elves, their numbers, their names, their outlook on things, how the transformation changed their view on things, nothing that makes them a people matters?

Lightforged draenei have little lore, but it's still a ton more than the void elves. Just by looking at their support cast we can see them way more varied than void elves. Lightforged draenei have characters like T'Paartos, Y'mera, Enaara or Telaamon to diversify them, as well as supporting cast like Quoram or Lothraxion. Void elves have Umbric, and that's it.

Heck, the LF recruitment story with T'Paartos has way more about what means to be a Lightforged than the entire void elf storyline so far can show us about the void elves. The only elf with void powers that was deeply explored was Alleria, and her story has nothing in common with Umbric and the dozen nameless elves that followed him and lived in a floating rock in the literal mid of nowhere.

VE might not have a lot of lore, but they do have it. And dismissing it because you don't like it, is dishonest.

I can't dislike what doesn't exist. I can dislike the absence of it, thought.