Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Sigxy]

Thank you for this comment because I'm pretty sure it just makes more Sylvanas fanbois roll in their sleep

To be honest I think it's a good thing they do. I've seen a bit too many defend her actions and now they resort to "SHE'S NOT A BAD CHARACTER THERE ARE ONLY BAD WRITERS" while still saying others characters are bad. Don't recall people ever getting this upset, even Thrall back during Cataclysm.

Just better to get rid of Sylvanas ASAP so we only got proper 'morally grey' characters left. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Deleted]

That's the stupidest comparison I think I've ever seen.

You going to sleep later than normal does not affect me in any relevant way, UNLESS I was to share a bedroom with you... in which case it would affect me, especially if I was already asleep and your going to bed late woke me.

In the case of High Elfs, this game is shared between two factions... so yes, playable High Elfs would affect me in a relevant way as a Horde player (I can list the reasons why if you like).

So no, you cannot safely say that playable High Elfs would not affect me or anyone else in a relevant way. The fact that there has been such a strong "NO High Elf" response clearly shows that many would be affected in some way, shape or form.

kk thx, bye.

We still share the same planet, breath the same air, so yes, you'd be just as affected by me going to sleep later as me playing a high elf, something that you can both ignore and not think about.

But ok, if you don't like this comparison, here is another: imagine we are flatmates, and I buy a T-shirt, that is kinda similar to yours but of different brand. How exactly that would affect you? It wouldn't affect you in any way at all and you throwing a tantrum about it would be completely ridiculous. As ridiculous as you now throwing a tantrum about people asking for High Elves.

And irrational feeling of some people "stealing your elf" is the only thing that really is going on with you and most people who post over and over about how they don't want to see High Elves. Identity? Please, High Elves are already a part of Alliance and are everywhere in WoW. You can already go and kill them and with them being playable, you would just be able to kill them in more places than you can do now. But surely you'd ignore this point and continue to push this ridiculous point about "muh identity" that is long gone since High Elves became official counterparts of Blood Elves in Alliance already back in Wrath.

[Obelisk Kai]

This is what I'm talking about. Forcing people to play two elves isn't good game design nor making other side of playerbase not very smart.

Nobody is forcing you to play any kind of elf. If you like elves, you have four options that are thematically distinct spread across two factions. Given that this is a faction based game, choosing your faction before your race means you are limiting yourself in your choices to the races available to that faction. Choosing a race before your faction chooses your faction for you. Every other player in the game has faced this dilemma and has made their choice.

No Kai I don't want to play a generic dull blueberry race like Void Elves nor the Special Snowflake Red White Skin Elves on the Horde.

So stop believing in a stupid statements from a developer that is fact. Because even He is wrong, He doesn't respect anything at all for other side of the playerbase like alliance players. Drop it.

He is not wrong. You are the one who has an issue with what he said, your only evidence is that he said things you didn't want to hear. And it wasn't 'A' developer, it was the Game Director. The guy essentially in charge. And he was not alone in what he has said, every statement Blizzard has ever given on this subject has reinforced the following.

1.) Blood Elves are High Elves and therefore High Elves are playable. This has been stated on numerous occasions going as far back to Metzen himself.
2.) The High Elf population in the Alliance is too low to viable. This has been stated on virtually every occasion Alliance High Elves have been mentioned.

Your own theory, that the developers secretly hate the Alliance and that is why they aren't giving the Alliance High Elves, is self pitying nonsense. They aren't giving the Alliance High Elves because High Elves are already playable and it would damage the faction wall to give the Alliance such an exact match of a major Horde race.

Void Elves are the answer they provided to the outstanding Alliance demand for thalassian elves. That they weren't exactly what you wanted is immaterial, as stated this is a faction based game and if you choose your faction first, you restrict your choice to what is on offer. In this case, by opting for the Alliance, you have denied yourself a Blood/High Elf.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

For the vast majority of pro High Elfers, it has little to do with lore. I have often offered proof of this; the Unofficial void elf threads that clogged up the forums at the end of last year and the beginning of this year, where many pro High Elfers congregated and agitated for a 'compromise' on Void Elves i.e. normal white skin tones.

Once they realised Void Elves were going to be kept as Void Elves and not get the normal skin tones they craved, the High Elf debate kicked off in earnest for another three to four months.

That SOME want them for the lore is true. But they appear to be the minority. Many use the lore to cloak their desire for an unblemished version of the model, because it gives weight to what is a shallow desire.

As for these images, they are meaningless. There is no reason a High Elf would have darker skin tone options than a Blood Elf, as they are the same group. If these skin tones were available, then Blood Elves would have access to them too. If Blood Elves had access to them, they would not be a point of differentiation. And thus as a suggestion, they don't work.

I have literally been one that has asked for HUMAN like skin tones for Void Elves to at least have something, so not even your anecdotal "evidence" that the vast majority of pro helfers don't care about the lore. I also hoped that Void Elves were made of HE because at least would have followed that storyline.

You don't get to declare the validity of the whole of people that like High Elves because of their lore, because some people might have less lore based motives, that's just petty



Personally* darker skin tones is not something that I see as something to differentiate BE from HE, I also think Blood Elves should have darker skin tones. No Kai, I pointed to that image so you are well aware that your narrative that people only want High Elves because they are white is completely fabricated.

So, darker skin for all thalassian elves personally. If you are so concerned about differentiation, e can have cold/ashy skin tones contrasted to sunkissed ones, it's already a whole more of differentiation than Nightborne have.

*Some people had the headcanon that Dalaran High Elves could be darker skinned because they have been living with humans in Dalaran for 3000 years and their gene pools could have entirely plausibly mingled at some points. Perhaps this could be something that Dalaran HE have storically kept on the down low, regardless, THERE you have a explanation if differentiation is so important to you.

Also, INBA *But the Sunreavers were the High Elves of Dalaran and they are Blood Elves* Nonsense. Kael'thas returned to Quel'thalas after the fall of Dalaran with a group of High Elves who them become Blood Elves and then Sunreavers, but WE KNOW most of the rest of Dalaran was evacuated and thusly is the same population we meet again in WotLK -who has a bunch of elves- and source of the Silver Covenant. That's the obvious conclusion.

[protip]

This is what I don't like about people like you or known as the Antis who are against something original in this game. You guys complain about original elves like High Elves because Blood Elves are High Elves and then when alliance players got treated with disrespect you guys come in and tell them to deal with it or force them to play a faction they don't like. To put excuse of oh would hurt Faction Imbalance it would ruin the Population on the horde. Well guess what the horde faction itself is ruining alliance population. What do you think people have problems with the horde fanbase when it comes to problems like this.

snip

The problem with high elves is that they are not original. We have them already. The rest of this is absolute nonsense.

So stop believing in a stupid statements from a developer that is fact. Because even He is wrong, He doesn't respect anything at all for other side of the playerbase like alliance players. Drop it.

This is just silly. No game developer wants half their playerbase not to have fun. He might make decisions you don't agree with, but if you want to have a reasonable conversation, you're going to have to explain why the decision is wrong. Painting the game director as some moustache twirling fun denier isn't going to get you anywhere.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Shameless plugging of my own work, I know, but here's the transparent version of the Icon of Endurance:

Given the recent development of Warbringers: Sylvanas, how do you feel about tulips?

Loving this whole icon TBH, I'm just battling with the part of me that thinks the Spellbreaker Shield is a Blood Elf icon and the part that knows that it hasn't been used wholesale since War3, so we know the artistics roots of the design are enterely High Elves and lorewise, at best it was a transitional aesthetic, so it works!

- - - Updated - - -

The problem with high elves is that they are not original. We have them already. The rest of this is absolute nonsense.

As original as HM and LF draenei are, or maghar orcs are. So it's not an issue about originality.

Is it about faction exclusivity then? This is absolutely a matter of opinion who has no empirical evidence to be supported. No one is "right" about this, it is solely subjective opinion so trying to say either side is right is utterly moot.

Some people like exclusivity, some people like more possible options. Neither side holds the truth, they are matters of opinion.

[TLH]

I am glad people are finally admitting most of the desire for high elves for alliance is about a deep aesthetic desire for aryan visuals.

For my part, I like the features but I am not bothered by my character not having white skin.

This reminds me of something a darker skinned latino girl told me from her childhood, she had a relative that had lighter skin and people were fawning over her even though the person I was talking to thought her looks did not warrant it.

But when it comes to looks, people are into what they are into. I care more about attractive features in my characters, so any blood elf model will do. Even one with bluish skin.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I am glad people are finally admitting most of the desire for high elves for alliance is about a deep aesthetic desire for aryan visuals.

For my part, I like the features but I am not bothered by my character not having white skin.

This reminds me of something a darker skinned latino girl told me from her childhood, she had a relative that had lighter skin and people were fawning over her even though the person I was talking to thought her looks did not warrant it.

But when it comes to looks, people are into what they are into. I care more about attractive features in my characters, so any blood elf model will do. Even one with bluish skin.

Let's Generalize about High Elfers!! What a hot take, bravo.

[Deleted]

I am glad people are finally admitting most of the desire for high elves for alliance is about a deep aesthetic desire for aryan visuals.

For my part, I like the features but I am not bothered by my character not having white skin.

This reminds me of something a darker skinned latino girl told me from her childhood, she had a relative that had lighter skin and people were fawning over her even though the person I was talking to thought her looks did not warrant it.

But when it comes to looks, people are into what they are into. I care more about attractive features in my characters, so any blood elf model will do. Even one with bluish skin.

I am not sure what the point of this racist rhetoric? Can't help it, or projectic your own views on others?

[protip]

As original as HM and LF draenei are, or maghar orcs are. So it's not an issue about originality.

Is it about faction exclusivity then? This is absolutely a matter of opinion who has no empirical evidence to be supported. No one is "right" about this, it is solely subjective opinion so trying to say either side is right is utterly moot.

Some people like exclusivity, some people like more possible options. Neither side holds the truth, they are matters of opinion.

They're definitely less original than any of the allied races. They are identical to an existing race - there is no precedent.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

They're definitely less original than any of the allied races. They are identical to an existing race - there is no precedent.

But we have precedent for "non original races", even ones that cross faction, as well as we have the precedent for the same exact model on two different factions.

Let's pretend that High Eves looking just like Blood Elves is one thing too far to ever conceive. Alright then; what if they are given the NB treatement? (different proportions and idle stance than cross faction base race, plus different cosmetic choices) Wouldn't that be enough?

"But there hasn't been enough time for high elves to be different" you may say. Does aesthetic differentiation need to be diegetic? Thalyssra looks pretty much like a night elf in her cinematic, her actual difference from a Night Elf is minimal beyond the ear shape. So are the differences on the NB model diegetic or not? are they just an aesthetic representation?

[Enkrypt]

Surprise bit**, this is a heated discussion, and what does happen when a discussion heats up? Confrontation? That's right you guessed it, well done!! *CLAPS INTENSIFIES*

Give me a fuc**** break and stop trying to discredit others with sh** that doesn't have a value in the final recount of things, ergo sentimental crap.

Trying to modify the entire context of the discussion finishing your post assuming that the FINAL EVIL PLOT is to make both factions equal is completely moronic.

I remember when I first learned how to make things bold, italic, and underlined. Looks like you just figured it out, way to go lil' guy.

No, but seriously, nobody is going to be giving you a break. Give us a break. This pathetic argument has gone on since TBC's release. So again, no one is going to let up on you now. I actually thought this thread had died. FML.

...stop trying to discredit others with sh** that doesn't have a value in the final recount of things, ergo sentimental crap.

-What does that even mean? What was the person trying to discredit? They plainly made the claim that High Elves for the Alliance are too similar to Blood Elves for the Horde, and forcing that blurs the faction lines. Blizzard has said that on record. So, tell me, who's trying to discredit who? Not surprised that there are giant holes in your emotional response, actually.

-What is this "final recount" of things you speak of? Is that when the fat lady sings? Is that when someone asks for recount logs? Like seriously, when and where does this "final recount" take place? In your head? In game? On these forums? Essplain, Lucy.

-And did you REALLY just say "sentimental crap" in the High Elf discussions thread? I'm pretty sure this debate is founded on the sentimental attachment to the High Elven concept. You really shouldn't call a counter point sentimental crap. Your whole issue's foundation is sentimental. It certainly isn't practical, which is why Blizzard hasn't caved.

-Also, the word ergo doesn't mean "in other words". It's more of a "thus".

It's sad to see all the time spent in this arena hasn't impressed upon you a deeper ability to logically argue with people. Instead you just flail about with profanities and newfound HTML expertise. Tsk, tsk.

[Deleted]

Give us a break.

No one forces you to do anything to give you a break from something.

[Andromedes]

I am glad people are finally admitting most of the desire for high elves for alliance is about a deep aesthetic desire for aryan visuals.

For my part, I like the features but I am not bothered by my character not having white skin.

This reminds me of something a darker skinned latino girl told me from her childhood, she had a relative that had lighter skin and people were fawning over her even though the person I was talking to thought her looks did not warrant it.

But when it comes to looks, people are into what they are into. I care more about attractive features in my characters, so any blood elf model will do. Even one with bluish skin.

Oh yes, bring real life reasons why we like high elves. I guess i like Arthas because i admire Hitler.

[Enkrypt]

No one forces you to do anything to give you a break from something.

Convenient how you deleted the context clues before and after the part you decided to quote, which leaves it vulnerable to misinterpretation. I guess it wouldn't have been as clever if your statement made no sense, though.

Besides, a pro-High Elfer wouldn't force me to do anything, I assure you.

[TLH]

I am not sure what the point of this racist rhetoric? Can't help it, or projectic your own views on others?

I am not the one bothered about my void elf not having white skin tone. I just commented on what so many others seemed driven by. I am not even against it, I don't share that aesthetic desire/want/need but if that is what a lot of people prefer, have at it. Just be open about what it is.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I am not the one bothered about my void elf not having white skin tone. I just commented on what so many others seemed driven by. I am not even against it, I don't share that aesthetic desire/want/need but if that is what a lot of people prefer, have at it. Just be open about what it is.

So we can only want high elves, or even a simulacra of them, only under what you prescribe our motivation is? You are not the first one to come with that one.

Look, people ant high elves for several reasons, some for lore, some because they just want to be a pretty elf and whatever. What are you bringing up to the conversation by generalizing all of our opinions under the "accept you just want to be a white and blond elf" misconstruction? Why are you attempting to build up this narrative as the truth? And you are not the only one that has done this.

[Aldo Hawk]

I am glad people are finally admitting most of the desire for high elves for alliance is about a deep aesthetic desire for aryan visuals.

For my part, I like the features but I am not bothered by my character not having white skin.

This reminds me of something a darker skinned latino girl told me from her childhood, she had a relative that had lighter skin and people were fawning over her even though the person I was talking to thought her looks did not warrant it.

But when it comes to looks, people are into what they are into. I care more about attractive features in my characters, so any blood elf model will do. Even one with bluish skin.

LoL stop playing around and honestly say that we are racists or white supremacists or some sh** like that.

Holy molly...

[Enkrypt]

So we can only want high elves, or even a simulacra of them, only under what you prescribe our motivation is? You are not the first one to come with that one.

Where did he say that? I don't see where he said that.

You are not the first pro-High Elfer to see words that aren't there. You guys are adept at seeing words and meanings in places where they do not exist.

[Deleted]

I am not the one bothered about my void elf not having white skin tone. I just commented on what so many others seemed driven by. I am not even against it, I don't share that aesthetic desire/want/need but if that is what a lot of people prefer, have at it. Just be open about what it is.

But I am actually against you assuming something for others and strongly implying that those who want High Elves are racist. And yes, based on your comment before, you do accuse those who want them as racists and all that "I am not against it" and "have at it" is just you hiding the real intention of your post, ironically something you accuse others of.