1. #6841
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Well hes right... you know. Last maybe 300 pages no one realy added anything, only saying stuff like ion sucks bs.

    Its sad when high elf fanboys are so selfish.. thrir beloved race joined the horde back in 2007... why wdo you want to steal that identity from the horde. The alliance need something new and exciting.. not a reskin from most played race on the horde. I dont think this thread needs to be revived.. it adds nothing to a discussion.. their are only fanarts of crests and other stuff people made.
    Void elves were a mistake and continue this thread as well.

    Just my opinion.
    You're not alone, this is my view as well.

    Alliance high elf supporters need to understand that what they are asking for affects other people who play this game.

  2. #6842
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinobianca View Post
    Alliance high elf supporters need to understand that what they are asking for affects other people who play this game.
    No one would be losing anything. It's just "Buh mah feelings!".
    Whatever...

  3. #6843
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by D-angeL View Post
    In what way would it affect you personally?

    I assume you’re a horde player. The only real concern I read so far is losing other Horde players who would faction change to Alliance. However these people are already unhappy with the Horde – may it be aesthetically, story wise or whatever. If they had any stronger ties, let it be emotionally to the Horde or the other players, they would stick to their friends, because they can still play the race they like visually the most.

    So chances are you haven’t played with a good portion of these unhappy people or at least didn’t spend a lot of time with them. But they are still unhappy and guess what they will ultimately do: faction changing anyway or quit.

    You are calling those pro highelvers selfish and entitled. While they just want to play the race they love on the faction they like. You don’t have to faction change. You are concerning possibly losing other people to play with and act like that’s more important than happy people, which is actually selfish and entitled yourself.

    While you are again comparing apples with pears simply because the Horde does not have any nonplayable faction of an alliance race. But alright let’s play with the thought. My main is a human. If you are leveling as a human you are already fighting more humans than orc or other Horde races: non organized bandits, Defias Brotherhood, various cultists, Scarlets and the Syndicate / Alterac Humans.

    So if any of these joined the Horde nothing really would change from Alliance PoV. In fact it would be less troublesome for me personally than any of the currently added allied horde races, but that’s just because I’m exalted with all 3 of them.

    You say you Horde don’t demand them for faction identity in respect to the Alliance. But the average alliance player wouldn’t be bothered at all if some humans, they never see, walk through say Orgrimmar. In fact I think the most troubled people with this is the Horde itself. And this is also the reason why you can’t compare it to the highelven situation. We are having multiple highelves spread throughout Stormwind, several highelven alliance friendly camps throughout the world. They are already part of the Alliance, they are already integrated since vanilla and the Horde had several moments of fighting with them. People just demand to play as one of them.

    As for blurring the faction identity in PvP: Not a lot of people are looking slowly at every detail of the face of their enemy in a PvP battle and VE already have the same silhouette. When they are fully covered you can’t even tell the difference. Competitive PvP isn’t AvH since BC and the introduction of arena games.
    There have been multiple human kingdoms in WoW, Humans are already fractured, so this is not an argument. Beside that, I would not want any kind of Humans in the Horde. Nightborne work out well, because they start as antagonists, and because you have a redemption arc for them in Suramar, and because they share the "mana addict" theme with Blood Elves. The only other Alliance race which could be portable into the Horde would be the Draenei, in form of renegade Eredar, which defect the Legion and join the Horde. Preferably with black and red skin tones, and green-glowing eyes to set them apart from the light-worshipping Draenei of the Alliance.

    While High Elves and Void Elves are technically nothing more than exiles of the main body of their people, who are the Blood Elves, Void Elves are much more interesting regarding story and lore. First, Alleria converted to a Void Elf. Second, they create an interesting dichotomy with Blood Elves being Light-worshippers and Void Elves now belonging to the Void. High Elves are just a boring, generic race which you can get in every other fantasy setting as well. Blood Elves and Void Elves have "living lore" from WoW.
    Last edited by mmoceb1073a651; 2018-07-31 at 01:35 PM.

  4. #6844
    Quote Originally Posted by D-angeL View Post
    In what way would it affect you personally?

    I assume you’re a horde player. The only real concern I read so far is losing other Horde players who would faction change to Alliance.

    snip
    The real issue is about the identity of WoW as a game: it made up of two very distinct factions. The one race shared between them tells the story of innocence lost and the futility of wishing for peace in a world at war - a war brought on by the inherent differences between those two factions. Every other playable race is a unique group that is tied by its history and its nature to one faction or the other. To add a race that doesn't fit into that paradigm is to add a race that doesn't fit into WoW. The storytelling and roleplay elements that have made WoW popular for so many years are all affected by what races are playable, and as you mentioned, there are also balance implications. All of those issues affect everyone, because they are integral to the nature and health of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigby View Post
    Void Elves completely throw that argument out of the window. Hell, Darkspear were one tribe - explicitly the smallest of the Jungle Trolls - who've taken it from all sides for a long time. Their numbers should be smaller than even the Helves at the start of Vanilla.
    The point that the population argument makes is not that they can't be a playable race, but that they don't have to be simply because they exist. The point of saying "there aren't very many of them" has never been to dismiss the idea based on that fact alone. It's perfectly valid, even if it is subjective.

    *Looks at how the Zandalari Paladin threads drowned out even the High Elves for that two weeks until Ion answered*

    Uh, yeah, sure.
    Zandalari paladins have nothing to do with the Silver Hand, and paladins in WoW are not exclusively made up of members of the Silver Hand. The idea of paladins being an Alliance class was retired in the first expansion. They now represent a larger concept than their vanilla representation, and the Zandalari variety is something unique to the Zandalari. In no way is something belonging to the Alliance made less unique by their inclusion. Zandalari paladin requests and Alliance high elf requests are not comparable.

  5. #6845




    Some darker skinned high elf edits by Ramavatarama on Tumblr.

  6. #6846
    Quote Originally Posted by Utigarde View Post




    Some darker skinned high elf edits by Ramavatarama on Tumblr.
    warcraft movie high elves!!

  7. #6847
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    warcraft movie high elves!!
    Lor'themar changed a lot since the first war.

  8. #6848
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by scubistacy View Post
    There have been multiple human kingdoms in WoW, Humans are already fractured, so this is not an argument. Beside that, I would not want any kind of Humans in the Horde. Nightborne work out well, because they start as antagonists, and because you have a redemption arc for them in Suramar, and because they share the "mana addict" theme with Blood Elves. The only other Alliance race which could be portable into the Horde would be the Draenei, in form of renegade Eredar, which defect the Legion and join the Horde. Preferably with black and red skin tones, and green-glowing eyes to set them apart from the light-worshipping Draenei of the Alliance.

    While High Elves and Void Elves are technically nothing more than exiles of the main body of their people, who are the Blood Elves, Void Elves are much more interesting regarding story and lore. First, Alleria converted to a Void Elf. Second, they create an interesting dichotomy with Blood Elves being Light-worshippers and Void Elves now belonging to the Void. High Elves are just a boring, generic race which you can get in every other fantasy setting as well. Blood Elves and Void Elves have "living lore" from WoW.
    The guy I responded to was trying to make a point with humans though. But my point is: I don’t care what races are in horde cities or camps. And when I – as Alliance – see humans teaming up with the horde opposing me then they’ll be treated as enemies like many other human subgroups before. Same could be said about any other race because – apart from maybe gnomes – we have fought against all Alliance races at some point: Humans (mentioned several), Dwarves (BRD), Worgen (duskwood), Nightelves (Well of Eternity), Draenei (Eredar in general, some broken in Outland). You could count leper gnomes, too.


    I kind of disagree on the latter. First of all: almost all races of the alliance believe in the light one way or another. But no race among the Horde is pro void. So they can’t develop a pro void story unless the Horde also gets a void aligned race or the VE somewhat become neutral. And even then it’s debatable because why would so many races doubt their faith because of a small sect of VE. The VE are in a corner right now.

    I think light and void based races are somewhat stupid, to be honest. We have classes that have these primal powers as theme like priests/paladins. Why would someone, who has some control over the light/void, even would become say a warrior and not use any kind of magic even the one they control? Or why would one who controls the void use arcane magic instead and become a mage?

    The VE were also ripped out of nowhere. They simply did not exist until recently. They chose some random no name guy as their leader which didn’t exist until their introduction either. With Aethas being present on the Vindicaar, his texts and his role as mage/kirin tor/magister dealt with he should’ve become the one leading them. Their unlock achievement has nothing to do with them, while they could and should have been at least properly introduced on Argus.

    The Highelves on the other hand fit right into the role of a magic centered society the Alliance is lacking. While Stormwind does have a mage quarter whenever a human does something mage related important he’s from the Kirin Tor. While Nightelves accepted their Highborne back, they didn’t even have a place on their own anywhere nor did they have any relevance at all. The Horde now has 2 huge magic societies with Nightborne and Bloodelves. Alliance couldn’t even keep the Kirin Tor for more than 2 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by protip View Post
    The real issue is about the identity of WoW as a game: it made up of two very distinct factions. The one race shared between them tells the story of innocence lost and the futility of wishing for peace in a world at war - a war brought on by the inherent differences between those two factions. Every other playable race is a unique group that is tied by its history and its nature to one faction or the other. To add a race that doesn't fit into that paradigm is to add a race that doesn't fit into WoW. The storytelling and roleplay elements that have made WoW popular for so many years are all affected by what races are playable, and as you mentioned, there are also balance implications. All of those issues affect everyone, because they are integral to the nature and health of the game.
    What are you even talking about? Where are either Highelves nor Bloodelves advertising peace much? Anyway: Said race IS already part of the Alliance. Highelves got overall more screen time than most other Alliance races. And it’s not like they have been just well placed individuals in camps the Horde doesn’t come across. During WotLK and MoP they were the counter part to the Bloodelves. They were just as much featured. You, as a Horde, already had to actually fight them on the Isle of Thunder if you remember that. How many times did you fight Ironforge? Gnomeregan or even Exodar?

  9. #6849
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Lor'themar changed a lot since the first war.
    in fact lorthemar loses his eye in the 3rd war
    and darkhan look awesome

  10. #6850
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    in fact lorthemar loses his eye in the 3rd war
    Haha, might be, but that dude is actually the Lor'themar cameo in the movie.

  11. #6851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    in fact lorthemar loses his eye in the 3rd war
    and darkhan look awesome
    I wish Dar'Khan could've had a bigger spotlight...

    I mean, he died a billion times already, I'm sure if they update Quel'Thalas, they can have him show up again - right? </3

  12. #6852
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    It's entitlement when you say you want something (ie. playable high elfs) but are happy to willingly neglect the possible negative side effects to others, or claim that people are silly because they are concerned about said side effects, all because you want to play what you want. That is entitlement.

    It moves away from entitlement when people actually look at the bigger picture and are willing to accept compromises. Compromises may not alwaysfully satisfy either party, but they do provide a mutual grounding for both parties. In the case of high elfs, void elfs were introduced. The compromise for the pro-high elfers was the thalassian elf model and animations, the compromise for anti-high elfers was the changing of hair and skin tones to provide some level of distinction in order to maintain faction boundaries. The compromise wasn't perfect, but it fulfilled the desires of both parties as best as possible. When somebody then regards the compromise as 'pathetic' and states that they still want their light skinned pretty high elfs on the blue side...that my friend is entitlement...no ifs no buts... just plain and simple entitlement.
    It is not the responsibility of the players when requesting something to worry over "potential negatives" of whatever addition they are requesting. That's up to Blizzard, it is their game and their decision in the end. Even when something does pass through with being greenlit by them, Blizzard will still do it in their own Blizzard way. But even saying this, HE fans did go above and beyond in taking that responsibility of working in "possible negative side effects" (which are honestly unrealistic - longtime BE players leaving all their friends/family just to go play Alli HEs? please) and had a huge discourse throughout this thread as well as others on other, more official, channels to work with what is given currently in the game to bring about their desire. This is far more effort than 99.9% of players who request things would ever do.

    Replying to Bold: Again, players are the only ones saying Void Elves are the compromise for High Elves when Blizzard has never once said this in all their talk of Void Elves. As much fun as some of you anti-HE like to make fun of HE fans denying "truths" and "reality" the players who continue to say that Void Elves are the High Elf compromise are very much being in the same state of denial at this truth.

    Even when Ion says "Void Elves were to give something like a Blood Elf" he is not saying they are the High Elf compromise. This is why he apologizes even after explaining the whole "if you want a tall/white/majestic blue eyed elf go play horde" because he understands that's not the answer the HE fans are looking for, Ion knows that answer isn't good enough but it's the only one that's available right now and for the foreseeable future.

    Also I guess we'll just have to disagree with how we define entitlement. Because I don't see a request as entitlement, only expectation as entitlement.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Utigarde View Post




    Some darker skinned high elf edits by Ramavatarama on Tumblr.
    Very awesome Artwork! Just goes to show the love and dedication some players have to this race.

  13. #6853
    Quote Originally Posted by D-angeL View Post
    What are you even talking about? Where are either Highelves nor Bloodelves advertising peace much? Anyway: Said race IS already part of the Alliance. Highelves got overall more screen time than most other Alliance races. And it’s not like they have been just well placed individuals in camps the Horde doesn’t come across. During WotLK and MoP they were the counter part to the Bloodelves. They were just as much featured. You, as a Horde, already had to actually fight them on the Isle of Thunder if you remember that. How many times did you fight Ironforge? Gnomeregan or even Exodar?
    The race telling the story of peace is the Pandaren - the only playable race shared between factions. Perhaps that's why you were confused, but the fact that there are High Elf NPCs in the Alliance is beside the point.

  14. #6854
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    Quote Originally Posted by protip View Post
    Every other playable race is a unique group that is tied by its history and its nature to one faction or the other.
    High Elves also fit into this, being already Alliance members. They don't become a neutral race by being playable on the Alliance since they never were a neutral race to begin with.

  15. #6855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinobianca View Post
    You're not alone, this is my view as well.

    Alliance high elf supporters need to understand that what they are asking for affects other people who play this game.
    Don't start with that excuse. Alliance Players have been asking for High Elves for bloodly years now and to say that it affects your perfect gameplay in this game makes you less smart. A lot of people play this game too you know. Not just you and or the horde faction in general.
    High Elves and Wildhammer Dwarves are finally playable in the Alliance. XD

  16. #6856
    Quote Originally Posted by Lionknight View Post
    Don't start with that excuse. Alliance Players have been asking for High Elves for bloodly years now and to say that it affects your perfect gameplay in this game makes you less smart. A lot of people play this game too you know. Not just you and or the horde faction in general.
    Oh good one, a lot of people (silent people who would never disagree with you, right?) play this game. That's the excuse? Well it's nothing I haven't heard before. The existence of this silent majority that gave their blessing to High Elf fans to do their thing... please.

    Maybe understand once and for all time that what you want is not happening because it already happened under the form of Velfs. It would be redundant to give you another elf option that is, in most ways, identical to the belfs. Your Helfs are turning into Vels. Enjoy.

  17. #6857
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    I wish Dar'Khan could've had a bigger spotlight...

    I mean, he died a billion times already, I'm sure if they update Quel'Thalas, they can have him show up again - right? </3
    it would be great if darkhan were the racial leader of the void elves! after all they are studying his magic

  18. #6858
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    Maybe understand once and for all time that what you want is not happening because it already happened under the form of Velfs. It would be redundant to give you another elf option that is, in most ways, identical to the belfs. Your Helfs are turning into Vels. Enjoy.
    Actually… no… For all we know the void elves are all blood elves. They were regular looking, even while using and researching the void. Until Nether-prince Durzaan did that ritual and was killed. We do not know yet if the Locus-Walker or Alleria can actually repeat it and create more VE. All we know is that Alleria needed a darkened Naaru to gain her void form. But there are way less Naaru than HE. Also they don’t run around abducting HE and turn them into VE. As others have mentioned there are even some HE around in bfa so they clearly still exist as a race.

  19. #6859
    Quote Originally Posted by D-angeL View Post
    In what way would it affect you personally?

    I assume you’re a horde player. The only real concern I read so far is losing other Horde players who would faction change to Alliance. However these people are already unhappy with the Horde – may it be aesthetically, story wise or whatever. If they had any stronger ties, let it be emotionally to the Horde or the other players, they would stick to their friends, because they can still play the race they like visually the most.

    So chances are you haven’t played with a good portion of these unhappy people or at least didn’t spend a lot of time with them. But they are still unhappy and guess what they will ultimately do: faction changing anyway or quit.

    You are calling those pro highelvers selfish and entitled. While they just want to play the race they love on the faction they like. You don’t have to faction change. You are concerning possibly losing other people to play with and act like that’s more important than happy people, which is actually selfish and entitled yourself.

    While you are again comparing apples with pears simply because the Horde does not have any nonplayable faction of an alliance race. But alright let’s play with the thought. My main is a human. If you are leveling as a human you are already fighting more humans than orc or other Horde races: non organized bandits, Defias Brotherhood, various cultists, Scarlets and the Syndicate / Alterac Humans.

    So if any of these joined the Horde nothing really would change from Alliance PoV. In fact it would be less troublesome for me personally than any of the currently added allied horde races, but that’s just because I’m exalted with all 3 of them.

    You say you Horde don’t demand them for faction identity in respect to the Alliance. But the average alliance player wouldn’t be bothered at all if some humans, they never see, walk through say Orgrimmar. In fact I think the most troubled people with this is the Horde itself. And this is also the reason why you can’t compare it to the highelven situation. We are having multiple highelves spread throughout Stormwind, several highelven alliance friendly camps throughout the world. They are already part of the Alliance, they are already integrated since vanilla and the Horde had several moments of fighting with them. People just demand to play as one of them.

    As for blurring the faction identity in PvP: Not a lot of people are looking slowly at every detail of the face of their enemy in a PvP battle and VE already have the same silhouette. When they are fully covered you can’t even tell the difference. Competitive PvP isn’t AvH since BC and the introduction of arena games.
    I suggest you re-read my posts before writing a story length response that has no relevance to what I said.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    No one would be losing anything. It's just "Buh mah feelings!".
    "Buh mah feelings" perfectly sums up pro-high elfers
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  20. #6860
    Quote Originally Posted by D-angeL View Post
    Actually… no… For all we know the void elves are all blood elves. They were regular looking, even while using and researching the void. Until Nether-prince Durzaan did that ritual and was killed. We do not know yet if the Locus-Walker or Alleria can actually repeat it and create more VE. All we know is that Alleria needed a darkened Naaru to gain her void form. But there are way less Naaru than HE. Also they don’t run around abducting HE and turn them into VE. As others have mentioned there are even some HE around in bfa so they clearly still exist as a race.
    Do they still exist? Damn!

    I hope you don't mean the ones gawking at the void-tentacles in the Velf area. Cause there's plenty of Helfs there from what I saw. But that's gotta be a mistake right? Blizz should fix that right up and move them from the void rift to the race roster in a matter of time.

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