Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Obelisk Kai]

I have literally been one that has asked for HUMAN like skin tones for Void Elves to at least have something, so not even your anecdotal "evidence" that the vast majority of pro helfers don't care about the lore. I also hoped that Void Elves were made of HE because at least would have followed that storyline.

You don't get to declare the validity of the whole of people that like High Elves because of their lore, because some people might have less lore based motives, that's just petty

Saying Void Elves needed human like skin tones to at least have something only works if you believe they had nothing to begin with. This is not true, Void Elves are void themed Thalassian Elves, that is their purpose and point. Them not being the High Elves you wanted is not a sin, nor should they judged as not having anything because they happened to be blue or gray. They are what they are, a variant on a thalassin elf distinguishable enough for the Alliance to enjoy without treading on the toes of the core Horde race.

Nor did I say everyone was pursuing Alliance High Elves for less lore based motives. Clearly some people want them for the sheer nostalgia of the Warcraft 2 experience.

But too many people were agitating for Void Elves to have 'normal' skin tones for that to be ignored. Too many people said it would be a compromise on the issue of High Elves, ignoring the reality that the model was the compromise. And lest we forget, even the developers seem to think that the desire for High Elves in the wake of Void Elves is motivated primarily by skin tone. Not only is that unsurprising given the feedback that would have been relayed to them from the Unofficial Void Elf threads, but skin tone is the prime distinguishing feature between Void Elves and Blood/High Elves.

*Some people had the headcanon that Dalaran High Elves could be darker skinned because they have been living with humans in Dalaran for 3000 years and their gene pools could have entirely plausibly mingled at some points. Perhaps this could be something that Dalaran HE have storically kept on the down low, regardless, THERE you have a explanation if differentiation is so important to you.

Also, INBA *But the Sunreavers were the High Elves of Dalaran and they are Blood Elves* Nonsense. Kael'thas returned to Quel'thalas after the fall of Dalaran with a group of High Elves who them become Blood Elves and then Sunreavers, but WE KNOW most of the rest of Dalaran was evacuated and thusly is the same population we meet again in WotLK -who has a bunch of elves- and source of the Silver Covenant. That's the obvious conclusion.

The explanation which you label as headcanon should stay there, as that is exactly what it is. That some mixing occurred between Humans and Elves in the past is undeniable, that is where a half elf such as Alodi would have come from. But I doubt it would have occurred on such a level that it would render the Dalaran population distinct. Lest we forget, Elves live exceptionally long lives numbered in thousands of years. Most of those dwelling in Dalaran would have been born in Silvermoon.

As for your final retort, yes, the group that is currently known as the Sunreavers are the Elves who taught Humans how to use magic following the Troll Wars and were resident in Dalaran, including their own quarter in the city, for many centuries. Dalaran was evacuated prior to it's destruction, and the majority of the Elves who taught Humanity magic clearly accompanied Kael'thas back home because when we next saw them, they were Horde Blood Elves.

The Silver Covenant consists primarily of Hunters and is led by Veressa Windrunner. It was likely founded after Dalaran was rebuilt, because I sincerely doubt ANY other thalassian ranger organisation would have been permitted to use the title of Ranger-General for their leader if they were still answerable to the government of Quel'thalas...and it was used to attract the few Alliance leaning Elves that remained in the world. A few Mages still loyal to Dalaran, the VERY occasional Paladin, but overwhelmingly Hunters to the point the Silver Covenant associated itself with the Hunter Class hall in Legion. The Silver Covenant is clearly modeled after the Horde Blood Elf Farstriders. They are likely the remnants of the High Elves who fought beside the Alliance during the Second War and who thought it an ideal more worthy than the path their own people were travelling down. They are almost certainly primarily former Farstriders in other words.


One would imagine that the High Elves who lived in Dalaran and formed the bulk of the expatriate population would in fact be Mages, given that they taught Humans to use magic in the first place. Which dovetails with the Sunreavers being those magical Elves.

[Azrathel]

Shameless plugging of my own work, I know, but here's the transparent version of the Icon of Endurance:

Given the recent development of Warbringers: Sylvanas, how do you feel about tulips?

Loving this whole icon TBH, I'm just battling with the part of me that thinks the Spellbreaker Shield is a Blood Elf icon and the part that knows that it hasn't been used wholesale since War3, so we know the artistics roots of the design are enterely High Elves and lorewise, at best it was a transitional aesthetic, so it works!

Tulips are lovely, but they're not a kind of flower you seen grow in vines. I also tried out roses, as they're used on the Alliance crest, but decided on these white more clematis like flowers. The lily shape fits with white lilies being traditionally associates with funerals, but also with rebirth and fertility. White lilies also symbolise purity and virtue, which I find a fitting contrast to the blood elves' fel taints. Lilies are the 30th anniversary flowers, which is fitting because it means devotion. That's why I landed on the lily shaped white clematis-esque flowers on the vines.

While we don't actually see spellbreakers in the Warcraft universe until Warcraft III where they're blood elves, we have both nightborne and azure spellbreakers. While Kael did form the official force of the spellbreakers after renaming his people blood elves, especially the existence of nightborne spellbreakers indicate that they have been in existence since the time of the kaldorei empire.

The spellbreaker's shield is thus not at this point actually very iconic to the high elves. The shield was chosen because it represent both magic in itself, and countering of and resistance towards magic (ab)use. It's also an attempt to brint the high elves into the future with new ways to adapt to the world.

[Obelisk Kai]

Countless years.. Right. You want to make arguments but you cant even count.
Right before WoD started, Ion said how he likes to talk about different ''subraces'' like Mag'har orcs or High elves.. So i dont know where ''countless years of being told no '' comes from. I guess from your little spiteful brain.

The earliest moment the High Elf request got a 'no' was on the 29th September 2005, the now legendary Caydiem blue post regarding High Elves where she explained why High Elves weren't going to be playable.

So while not 'countless', it functions as a synonym for a lot because we are coming up on the thirteenth anniversary of that 'no' next month.

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high elves are blood elves. they should basically rename blood elves to be high elves and be done with it.

I suspect Blood Elves were renamed in TFT due to rule of cool and as a means of making a bold statement to the player.

Frankly if Blizzard had their time again I suspect they'd just leave them being called High Elves. One adjective really hasn't been worth fourteen years of arguments.

Still, interesting thought arises. Had Blizzard done everything the same with Blood Elves except change the name, would we even be having this conversation?

I suspect not.

[Andromedes]

2005 eh? What will others do with that information, that high elves were requested before they had their pretty models and before blood elves were horde race? Where is ''you just want horde's toy, grow up kiddo'' folk?

[DeicideUH]

2005 eh? What will others do with that information, that high elves were requested before they had their pretty models and before blood elves were horde race? Where is ''you just want horde's toy, grow up kiddo'' folk?

They'll pretend it to be false, just like all the other stuff they want to ignore.

[FlubberPuddy]

It's also an attempt to brint the high elves into the future with new ways to adapt to the world.

I think this is what will have to happen for Alliance High Elves to become playable. It's clear that more growth / story progress needs to happen for them IF they are going to be a playable race for Alliance.

Just sucks that Void Elves got released in the interim because now it means we'll have to wait much longer for another elf to get added to Alliance.

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As for your final retort, yes, the group that is currently known as the Sunreavers are the Elves who taught Humans how to use magic following the Troll Wars and were resident in Dalaran, including their own quarter in the city, for many centuries. Dalaran was evacuated prior to it's destruction, and the majority of the Elves who taught Humanity magic clearly accompanied Kael'thas back home because when we next saw them, they were Horde Blood Elves.

The Silver Covenant consists primarily of Hunters and is led by Veressa Windrunner. It was likely founded after Dalaran was rebuilt, because I sincerely doubt ANY other thalassian ranger organisation would have been permitted to use the title of Ranger-General for their leader if they were still answerable to the government of Quel'thalas...and it was used to attract the few Alliance leaning Elves that remained in the world. A few Mages still loyal to Dalaran, the VERY occasional Paladin, but overwhelmingly Hunters to the point the Silver Covenant associated itself with the Hunter Class hall in Legion. The Silver Covenant is clearly modeled after the Horde Blood Elf Farstriders. They are likely the remnants of the High Elves who fought beside the Alliance during the Second War and who thought it an ideal more worthy than the path their own people were travelling down. They are almost certainly primarily former Farstriders in other words.


One would imagine that the High Elves who lived in Dalaran and formed the bulk of the expatriate population would in fact be Mages, given that they taught Humans to use magic in the first place. Which dovetails with the Sunreavers being those magical Elves.

For all this blubber it doesn't even matter where the SC come from.

Three Sisters Comic shows that Vereesa (and likely the other High Elves who follow her) consider themselves staunchly Alliance and even seek to bring Blood Elves back into the fold.

I think Blizzard finds this to be an interesting "will they/won't they" story situation and there will be more stuff in the future about it.

Interesting I think, that it didn't end with the Purge of Dalaran thread that created the whole "Jaina I was in talks with Lor'themar to bring the Blood Elves back into the Alliance!" and that it's still being brought up 3 expansions later.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Saying Void Elves needed human like skin tones to at least have something only works if you believe they had nothing to begin with.

No Kay, that comment was directed to your implication that people only want "white high elves" a narrative you are all too willing to present as truth. Werther there was any meat to the possibility that HUMAN skin tones added to Void Elves would have simmered down the HE request is ancillary, and already discussed.

But skin tone is the prime distinguishing feature between Void Elves and Blood/High Elves.

How can I agree with this statement when my issue is about the lore over the aesthetics? I have plenty of times said that I had hoped Void Elves were made of High Elves, which would have resulted on the same aesthetics. "But other people care more about the skin tone" cool, go talk to them about that. "But even the developers think it's about the skin tone" Given that I have explicitily said that for me is about the lore, the kindest thing I can say about the developers is their generalization is a mistake. Kai, not because they say it is so makes it true, unless they can literally read all of our minds.

The explanation which you label as headcanon should stay there, as that is exactly what it is. That some mixing occurred between Humans and Elves in the past is undeniable, that is where a half elf such as Alodi would have come from. But I doubt it would have occurred on such a level that it would render the Dalaran population distinct. Lest we forget, Elves live exceptionally long lives numbered in thousands of years. Most of those dwelling in Dalaran would have been born in Silvermoon.

Which would be your headcanon. Unless there is specific information about it, speculation is all there is. This goes beyond the viability of any headcanon -of course you believe yours to be far more plausible- the point is about the lack of confirmation. No matter how good you think the logic you are using is, it's not real evidence.

And no, I don't really believe that Dalaran High Elves have more "human" blood in them, would be neat, but it's baseless speculation.

As for your final retort, yes, the group that is currently known as the Sunreavers are the Elves who taught Humans how to use magic following the Troll Wars and were resident in Dalaran, including their own quarter in the city, for many centuries. Dalaran was evacuated prior to it's destruction, and the majority of the Elves who taught Humanity magic clearly accompanied Kael'thas back home because when we next saw them, they were Horde Blood Elves.

There's a huge logical fallacy at the core of this interpretation, because for some reason Jaina saying that "The very same Sunreavers who helped humans discover magic in the first place?" for you HAS to mean that all the elves that thought magic to humans became sunreavers, when logically only means that those first teachers and the sunreavers, share an overlap. Most charitably we can say that the Sunreavers indeed hold in their ranks the oldest elves who taught magic to humans, but we will see as far that takes us later.

You keep weaving fact with your own interpretation, extrapolating "facts" out of vague statements. There's nothing saying that the "Sunreavers" were a specific group before the chism, nor they had their own "quarter" of the city before that. Only that their current members are also some of the elves that taught magic to humanity and have lived in Dalaran for millenia.

It's not a strong interpretation at all.

The Silver Covenant consists primarily of Hunters and is led by Veressa Windrunner. It was likely founded after Dalaran was rebuilt, because I sincerely doubt ANY other thalassian ranger organisation would have been permitted to use the title of Ranger-General for their leader if they were still answerable to the government of Quel'thalas...and it was used to attract the few Alliance leaning Elves that remained in the world. A few Mages still loyal to Dalaran, the VERY occasional Paladin, but overwhelmingly Hunters to the point the Silver Covenant associated itself with the Hunter Class hall in Legion. The Silver Covenant is clearly modeled after the Horde Blood Elf Farstriders. They are likely the remnants of the High Elves who fought beside the Alliance during the Second War and who thought it an ideal more worthy than the path their own people were travelling down. They are almost certainly primarily former Farstriders in other words.

More interpretation based off an already flawed premise. All based on "most mages went with Kael'thas" which again, no evidence of whatsoever. Your whole interpretation of the Silver Covenant is unnecessarily convoluted, when Occam's razor points at being simply citizens of Dalaran who were not okay with neutrality, not even I, a pro High-Elfer, dare to say how many non Dalaran high elves arrived later, because that has literally no supporting evidence.

The only reason Vereesa is a Ranger-General is because she is the Ranger that created the SC as an anti Horde movement. The Rangers of the Silver Covenant joined the Unseen Path, that doesn't even mean they are a majority, specially when later THE MAGES of the Silver Covenant marched on Suramar.

Your interpretation that the Sunreavers are most of the mages of Dalaran is eminently dubious. Even if we accept the shaky premise that the Sunreaver indeed hold most of the first Dalaran mages, that means almost nothing for the Dalaran population as a whole, because we have no way of knowing what % of the whole elven population those ancestral proto Sunreavers actually were.

When the evidence shown in game points the other direction. Here's the real deal. Both Silver Covenant and Sunreavers are fractions of the elven population of Dalaran. Cause the rest of the high elves, and actually the BULK of the elven citizenry, are Neutral Dalarani High Elves. No matter how you dice it, Blood Elves are a fraction of the elves of Dalaran as a whole

One would imagine that the High Elves who lived in Dalaran and formed the bulk of the expatriate population would in fact be Mages, given that they taught Humans to use magic in the first place. Which dovetails with the Sunreavers being those magical Elves.

Flawed premises and flawed deductions, all around biased interpretations.

[Strippling]

Are Void Elves High Elves lorewise? Furthermore, are you aware of the difference between High Elves and Blood Elves? If you don't understand the difference fine, but what are you bringing to the conversation for someone who the political distinction matters?

I was excitedl about Void Elves, hoping they were gonna use the Alliance High Elf lore, yet they ended up being exiled blood elves.

So if Blizz were to change the lore to say that the high elves also became void elfs would that satisfy you? Or do you require paler skin tones too? (ie. carbon copy of a blood elf)

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Lore doesn't support Void Elves being Playable. Lore doesn't support Gnomes being playable ... but here they are.
Lore doesn't support Darkspear being playable. Hell, Lore doesn't really support FORSAKEN being playable if you want to push it. They made lore to fit the above being playable, they could fucking do it for High Elves.

As for them being a core part of the Alliance ... yeah, you need to actually look at the Lore. High Elves were once a valued member of the Alliance, which most people will view as core. This comes down to YOUR definition of core. For example, I don't view Blood Elves as a core race of the Horde ... you have the core: Orcs, Trolls and Tauren, the Newcomers: Forsaken, Blood Elves and Goblin and the Pandaren and the Allied Races. Others will view Core as all main races.

Not sure if you know, but high elfs joined the Alliance out of convenience. As soon as the war was over, they promptly left the Alliance, bar a few human lovers.

Also, in response to your comment "High Elves were once a valued member of the Alliance" here's a snippet for you to read:

However, a few high elves did not become blood elves. When Quel'Thalas left the Alliance, some high elves chose to remain with their allies over their kingdom, and to this day still support the Alliance.[7] Some high elves were exiled from Quel'Thalas after the Third War.[10] Other high elf remnants have chosen to rejoin the Alliance in recent years, arriving to a cold reception.[2] Modern high elves are a rare sight, and are commonly mistaken for blood elves.[11][12] In consequence, there are so few high elves left on Azeroth today that they cannot be considered a race in anything other than the biological sense. High elves did not gather in any significant numbers, nor did they act as a coordinated whole. They are a very small group of individuals scattered all over the world. As such, they do not have common opinions or goals. Indeed, modern high elves cannot even truly be said to have a culture—only a past filled with glory and regret.[2]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf

Enjoy the read

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

So if Blizz were to change the lore to say that the high elves also became void elfs would that satisfy you? Or do you require paler skin tones too? (ie. carbon copy of a blood elf)

Yes, if only the backstory was changed, that would have been enough for me. Even now I hope we get some conformation that High Elves can be made into VE.

I'm invested on the HE lore, specially SC, so if that lore was to become VE, I would have been 100% on board -I was 100% on board when I thought such-



I'm not gonna lie tho, I hoped there was a choice to have some more human like skin tones -Cause nostalgia I still wanna have that high elf ranger character- but that was never the deal breaker for me.

IMO, if VE could have Black and White added, that would be all I would add aesthetically, because it's silly Void Elves don't have Black Hair, and VE are the only race that doesn't have white hair -which would look amazing with the darker VE skin tones-

Also, about this specific line you highlighted:

Other high elf remnants have chosen to rejoin the Alliance in recent years, arriving to a cold reception

The full quote has another implication, as it is clearly making references to High elf remnants that chose to rejoin the alliance, thus obviously not making reference to those high elves that never left, which is also stated on the same paragraph you quoted.

When Quel'Thalas left the Alliance, some high elves chose to remain with their allies over their kingdom, and to this day still support the Alliance

Also, if of worth pointing out these info was taken from the encyclopedia, which came before Wotlk, making statements like:

High elves did not gather in any significant numbers, nor did they act as a coordinated whole.

Out of date, considering the evident presence of the Silver Covenant in game through several expansions.

[Strippling]

High elves did not gather in any significant numbers, nor did they act as a coordinated whole.

Out of date, considering the evident presence of the Silver Covenant in game through several expansions.

Not out of date, in a recent Q&A Ion literally said that one of the major reasons high elfs will not be playable is for this very reason... they are not a coordinated race but rather a dispersed group of stragglers each with different motivations. That, and the blurring of factions.

[Deleted]

Blizzard gives me cancer.

[Darththeo]

Not sure if you know, but high elfs joined the Alliance out of convenience. As soon as the war was over, they promptly left the Alliance, bar a few human lovers.

Also, in response to your comment "High Elves were once a valued member of the Alliance" here's a snippet for you to read:

However, a few high elves did not become blood elves. When Quel'Thalas left the Alliance, some high elves chose to remain with their allies over their kingdom, and to this day still support the Alliance.[7] Some high elves were exiled from Quel'Thalas after the Third War.[10] Other high elf remnants have chosen to rejoin the Alliance in recent years, arriving to a cold reception.[2] Modern high elves are a rare sight, and are commonly mistaken for blood elves.[11][12] In consequence, there are so few high elves left on Azeroth today that they cannot be considered a race in anything other than the biological sense. High elves did not gather in any significant numbers, nor did they act as a coordinated whole. They are a very small group of individuals scattered all over the world. As such, they do not have common opinions or goals. Indeed, modern high elves cannot even truly be said to have a culture—only a past filled with glory and regret.[2]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf

Enjoy the read

Don't tell someone to read something you failed to.

Also, way to ignore my argument to make something that doesn't prove anything. Again, it depends on your definition of "core" ... you don't see them as "core" another person very may well for other reasons.

[Alanar]

Countless years.. Right. You want to make arguments but you cant even count.
Right before WoD started, Ion said how he likes to talk about different ''subraces'' like Mag'har orcs or High elves.. So i dont know where ''countless years of being told no '' comes from. I guess from your little spiteful brain.



So people who want high elves since vanilla want to steal visuals of your precious race, that was added in BC? Cool story.

The story was already there in warcraft 3 which was a natural result in them joining the horde.. doesnt matter many people wanted high elves.. bit that was already out of the question if you played warcraft 3... sorry to break ya bubble, but just no m8.

Also their visuals in vanilla were reskin nigh elves.. lol no one wanted that back then. They were realy ugly. Until they got their new model the whining began.

[Andromedes]

Also their visuals in vanilla were reskin nigh elves..

Yeah, that shows people wanted them for lore, not for their looks

lol no one wanted that back then. They were realy ugly. Until they got their new model the whining began.

Ask obelisk, he is still posting blue post from 2005, which said NO to high elves as a playable race.. People were asking, you just dont remember because you werent even born.

[Alanar]

Yeah, that shows people wanted them for lore, not for their looks



Ask obelisk, he is still posting blue post from 2005, which said NO to high elves as a playable race.. People were asking, you just dont remember because you werent even born.

This whole reponse doesnt make any sense...
Yup 2005 response He has been posting that more then you know.. Yup people wanted those elves to be playable, you werent there but.those nigh elf reskins were mostly blood elves that didnt had their own model.. it was already known that they changed their name. To blood elf. Anyway we got them.. in bc.. so whats the problem?

Not that I need to explain myself but I am prob playing this game longer then you... l was there in 2004 when I started playing.

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Yeah, that shows people wanted them for lore, not for their looks

Yea.. just no dude.

[Sigxy]

Ask obelisk, he is still posting blue post from 2005, which said NO to high elves as a playable race.. People were asking, you just dont remember because you werent even born.

Well that's a new one.

[Andromedes]

those nigh elf reskins were mostly blood elves that didnt had their own model.. it was already known that they changed their name. To blood elf. Anyway we got them.. in bc.. so whats the problem?

Not that I need to explain myself but I am prob playing this game longer then you... l was there in 2004 when I started playing.

Vanilla showed us, that not everyone changed their names and not everyone was in quel thalas. Those high elves were in various outposts and lodges. So no, you have outdated information, that everyone is blood elf. But then again, you didnt play or you played purely horde and miraculously dodged every high elf npc.

Yea.. just no dude.

Nice argument.

[Alanar]

Vanilla showed us, that not everyone changed their names and not everyone was in quel thalas. Those high elves were in various outposts and lodges. So no, you have outdated information, that everyone is blood elf. But then again, you didnt play or you played purely horde and miraculously dodged every high elf npc.



Nice argument.

No my information isnt outdated, try to read.. I said mostly. Besides the difference between the 2 model was blonfe or white hair.. they were the same model.. funny how that outdated information still holds true even afther blood elf model update lol.
There were a few outposts with high elves yes.. your point?

Dude.. stop coming at me with stuff like you didnt play or you werent born.. you know nothing of me. Qurl thalas wasnt even in the game till bc, and slowly all those high elfs were killed or became wretched. And once again it shows us you didnt even play back then because you didnt need to be alliance to see some of those reskins.

Well nice arguments kiddo, Maybe you should read some more wowpedia while you still have it open.

[Sigxy]

Bullshit you people come in here to try and belittle and bully people also I won't be responding to you no more as I've read your posts and you are not worth my time.

Why don't you actually try to add to the discussion, rather than saying "you are not worth my time" and we all know you're still going to respond?

Also, really curious about this: How would you pro-high elves feel if Blizzard wanted to just mess things around and, yes, High Elves would be playable - but on the Horde side, as the Blood elves join the Alliance.

I know it won't happen. I just wanna know how you'd feel if Blood elves joined the Alliance and somehow the High elves joined the Horde.

[Alanar]

Why don't you actually try to add to the discussion

Lets be honest, there is nothing to discuss realy.
High elves is off the table.. confirmed 3 times by now.
There is only "if" or "I want" which doesnt need a discussion cus its opinion based.