1. #6941
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    Hopefully not too off-topic but I do want to ask the high elf fans, since I'm definitely not as big of a fan as they are I think:

    Since I'm working on a custom campaign on WC3 and I need 2 high elf basic units for an army roster, what would be the most 'easy picks'?
    Archer, priest.

  2. #6942
    Pit Lord Sigxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andoras View Post
    Archer, priest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lionknight View Post
    Archer/Ranger, Priest, and Mage. Don't forget about the Iconic Warcraft 3 High Elf Mage. XD
    Thanks for sharing the input! <3

  3. #6943
    Anyone else annoyed with Alleria’s story now with the whole void thing? The whole bit about her distancing from Turalyon, after being at his side through all they’ve been through is just a depressing turn for a story that was dangled in front of us for a decade. I’m not saying everything should be perfect in the lives of these two, but this really does nothing for me. I think the whole plot line is forced and not entertaining.

    Beyond Alleria, Nothing about the void elves seems compelling from a narrative standpoint. A handful of rogue blood elves suffering from paranoid schizophrenia constitutes an “allied race”...... whoopty do

  4. #6944
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    Hopefully not too off-topic but I do want to ask the high elf fans, since I'm definitely not as big of a fan as they are I think:

    Since I'm working on a custom campaign on WC3 and I need 2 high elf basic units for an army roster, what would be the most 'easy picks'?
    Ranger and Mage feel like the most iconic classes for HE. Personally, I think it would be interesting to see the Ranger as less of a weak ranged unit since I feel "Rangers" on elven culture are basically the foot soldier archetype, but I don't think what kind of gameplay a unit between a Human Footman and a Night Elven Archer would bring.

    And Mages as a more basic distance unit would be pretty fun.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thMountainMan View Post
    Anyone else annoyed with Alleria’s story now with the whole void thing? The whole bit about her distancing from Turalyon, after being at his side through all they’ve been through is just a depressing turn for a story that was dangled in front of us for a decade. I’m not saying everything should be perfect in the lives of these two, but this really does nothing for me. I think the whole plot line is forced and not entertaining.

    Beyond Alleria, Nothing about the void elves seems compelling from a narrative standpoint. A handful of rogue blood elves suffering from paranoid schizophrenia constitutes an “allied race”...... whoopty do
    IMO I feel they are still at the point where they are trying to make it work, so I'm hoping there aren't going with the "now I must leave uuuu" route.

    So far we have pretty much nothing about the ways of the Void Elves as a people, and it's hard they will be anything beyond "Alleria's personal army" anytime soon. Maybe that will work out fine in time as we get the VE trying to forge their own path on a calmer period, so *shrug*

    Honestly I'm more bothered that Alleria might be a Void Elf, but she still looks like the Ur example of the High Elf War 2 fantasy lol. The group that looks like her is unplayable, and the group that is playable doesn't look like her.And it's not just the being a "human" skinned elf, but the fact that her whole aesthetic is High Elven instead of Void Elven, which bring us to the fact that the VE barely have their own aesthetic, a cool one indeed, but that exists removed from any solid influence -I guess that is intended to be a mashup between ethereal and elven aesthetics?- There's no explanation why the VE aesthetics are what they are, they just feel too much removed of the diegesis of the lore.

    Honestly if Umbric's acolytes would have already going for the aesthetic while researching -like, the uniform of their little group? eh- that would have been enough. That they had been purposely separating themselves aesthetically of their blood elven past to forge their own identity as "renegade" elves.

  5. #6945
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Ranger and Mage feel like the most iconic classes for HE. Personally, I think it would be interesting to see the Ranger as less of a weak ranged unit since I feel "Rangers" on elven culture are basically the foot soldier archetype, but I don't think what kind of gameplay a unit between a Human Footman and a Night Elven Archer would bring.

    And Mages as a more basic distance unit would be pretty fun.
    Think the only way for that to work, sadly, would be if if you add 2 weapon types and ranged only works on flying. :< Would be possible to give them abilities that works at range but I think that'd go a bit too far on the multi-tasking side. And the fact that unless there's a REALLY good looking custom unit out there somewhere, a bit hard to take it seriously when one fights with point-blank shot animations!

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thMountainMan View Post
    Anyone else annoyed with Alleria’s story now with the whole void thing? The whole bit about her distancing from Turalyon, after being at his side through all they’ve been through is just a depressing turn for a story that was dangled in front of us for a decade. I’m not saying everything should be perfect in the lives of these two, but this really does nothing for me. I think the whole plot line is forced and not entertaining.

    Beyond Alleria, Nothing about the void elves seems compelling from a narrative standpoint. A handful of rogue blood elves suffering from paranoid schizophrenia constitutes an “allied race”...... whoopty do
    M'yeah, to be honest I'd prefer it if they could actually chill out together rather than having this issue they got now.

    I mean, unless they somehow cure that void thing - which I'm not sure is possible - they are going to have to live like this for the rest of their lives. That's not really all that great and should take on their mentality a bit. x_x
    Last edited by Sigxy; 2018-08-12 at 10:18 AM.

  6. #6946
    WoW forums are abuzz over High Elves again thanks to a mix of Blizzard slapping High Elves all over Warfronts and the community somehow not knowing about it despite all the arguments showcasing it up till now.

    This thread has been linked more than once over there, so expect people to be reading and for newcomers to be showing up.

    Edit: Also, remember not to give trolls any attention. That's all they're here for. If someone isn't contributing to the discussion, ignore them, they will go away.

  7. #6947
    Quote Originally Posted by Dinduffen View Post
    a tangible form of autism
    Yeah, you should really go and have that checked out. People might be worried about your health.

  8. #6948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionknight View Post
    You know something. I really can't take you serious ether. I mean your so blinded by One Developer that goes to sure your only making WoW as a whole no longer Warcraft in general. First off High Elves do have a purpose. Like seriously what is the silver covenant or other high elf factions going to do? Are they just going to sit around and do nothing while no lore Void Elves takes the spot light against the most generic story writing in history. God you antis have terrible headcanons in terms of the story and I'm sick of it..

    Oh Light vs Void, Light Elf vs Shadow Elf. What kind of a response is that? Also to say that letting go past of Warcraft is like saying "Oh hey let's completely forget everything that made Warcraft 1, 2, and 3 likeable and just take out Warcraft 2 like it didn't happen. If there's one group of people that is to blame for being so blinded and entitled to reject high elves towards alliance players who wanted them is probably you Antis. Yea you think the Pro HEers bad. But atleast they have every proof about high elves and the story itself unlike this arc of light vs void story. I say Dungeons and Dragons Lore was better and even Legion itself. Because atleast we have something to fight then Darkness Bad! No wait Light is Bad! Stop defending Blizzard on this terrible writing of light vs void and void elves in general. Because I could see WoW turning into a generic final fantasy game than a Warcraft game that actually has REAL Fantasy Races than Fox people, than Emo Void Elves, than any other random races that just screams bad writing and bad game design.

    Void Elves are bad game design. Light vs Void and Morally Grey are bad writing as well.
    I find Light vs. Void brilliant. You are just a ungrateful, narcisstic, special snowflake who insists on something to be re-created though there isn't anymore reason for this left. You have a Blood Elf model in the Alliance, though with a different flavour of colours - but with the best styling of all Allied Races coming out of Legion. You got the race which continues the story of the Thalassian elves, while the BE storyline will now be more and more reactive, because it's the Nightborne elves who now get more of the spotlight on the Horde side. You have a race which is pretty much unique to Warcraft, because no other race has this much of focus towards the Void, all other worship the Light. What do you want on top of that?
    Last edited by mmoceb1073a651; 2018-09-21 at 02:16 PM.

  9. #6949
    Quote Originally Posted by scubistacy View Post
    I find Light vs. Void brilliant. You are just a ungrateful, narcisstic, special snowflake who insists on something to be re-created though there isn't anymore reason for this left. You have a Blood Elf model in the Alliance, though with a different flavour of colours - but with the best styling of all Allied Races coming out of Legion. You got the race which continues the story of the Thalassian elves, while the BE storyline will now be more and more reactive, because it's the Nightborne elves who now get more of the spotlight on the Horde side. You have a race which is pretty much unique to Warcraft, because no other race has this much of focus towards the Void, all other worship the Light. What do you want on top of that?
    The latter part of this response is why it probably would've been better, for the factions, if Void Elves were Horde and Nightborne were Alliance -- but that's only because of the original blunder of Night Elves being Alliance and Blood Elves being Horde.

    Maybe we'll get lucky and factions will disappear, allowing Blizzard to lump High Elves in with the Blood Elves and let you play with whomever you enjoy playing with. If that happens to be three varieties of human and a Dark Iron Dwarf, then so be it.

  10. #6950
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyersing View Post
    The latter part of this response is why it probably would've been better, for the factions, if Void Elves were Horde and Nightborne were Alliance -- but that's only because of the original blunder of Night Elves being Alliance and Blood Elves being Horde.

    Maybe we'll get lucky and factions will disappear, allowing Blizzard to lump High Elves in with the Blood Elves and let you play with whomever you enjoy playing with. If that happens to be three varieties of human and a Dark Iron Dwarf, then so be it.
    I would have preferred Void Elves on the Horde too and Nightborne for the Alliance. The storyline could even have been tweaked to produce such a result. Instead of being instantly hostile towards the Nightborne, Tyrande could have been sympathetic and accommodating. Instead of the Void Elves being saved by Alleria, Umbric's experiments could have drawn the attention of Sylvanas who could have agreed the Void Elves would serve the Horde (despite Rommath's protestations. But as we've seen, ignoring Rommath and paying for it later seems to be a problem within the Horde).

    Yet the Void Elves and the Nightborne are unique amongst all the Allied races in that their 'parents' are on the opposite factions. Mag'har Orcs and Orcs are on the same side. Highmountain Tauren and Tauren are on the same side. Dark Iron Dwarves and Dwarves are on the same side. Lightforged Draenei and Draenei are on the same side. So why did these two buck the trend and end up on the other side of the faction wall?

    Simple. They wanted to give the Alliance a thalassian elf model in order to appease some of the sentiment for a playable High Elf. Blizzard was listening to the demand for all these years. They knew it existed. Yet the barriers I long argued (in threads that existed many years before this one) would hamper High Elves being added proved insumountable for them and they created a variant instead. Once you understand that the variant was designed as an attempted compromise, to give the Alliance something that was a bit like a Blood Elf (which is a High Elf) but with a unique flavour of it's own, you understand just how little chance there is of them going back and granting pure High Elves to the Alliance. Yes, they couldn't satisfy the hard core of High Elf fans. I don't think they ever thought they could. Every choice they make has a group of people unhappy with it. They knew they couldn't make everyone happy.

    I do however object to two of your statements. I see little chance of Blizzard scrapping the iconic Horde and Alliance factions and would vehemently argue against it. Scrapping the factions is one of those ideas like a third faction that most people like discussing, but know in their bones Blizzard is never going to do. Seeing people who want High Elves argue for it because it would allow them to play a non void thalassian with Allliance friends is too big a demand by far.

    Secondly, your belief that the Night Elves and Blood Elves ended up on the wrong factions. When the choice was made behind the scenes to adopt a faction based approach to the game world, the Night Elves had to go somewhere, and it was never going to be the Orcs who killed Cenarius and who needed to chop down their wood in Ashenvale. Similarly the Blood Elves had to go somewhere, and it wasn't going to be with the Humans who sentenced them to death and who were appalled by their magical addiction. Each race had only one choice of two and they ended up where they were always fated to go.

    And both have flourished within their respective factions, becoming mainstays of each.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2018-10-01 at 09:51 AM.

  11. #6951
    Quote Originally Posted by Lionknight View Post
    Oh ungrateful. You know what players like you are the reason why the lore sucks now. So tried of dealing with this BS. Special Snowflake my ass. I don't care if I get another false report because you butthurt entitled baby blood elf players can't respect anything in this damn game. Fuck off.
    If anything it's posts like this that prove the fanatical Helfers are the ones who are trying to ruin the game.

  12. #6952
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinobianca View Post
    If anything it's posts like this that prove the fanatical Helfers are the ones who are trying to ruin the game.
    It's probably best not to judge the entire community by Lionknight/WoWJedi/Runicknight's hyperbole. That individual holds those of us opposed to playable High Elves responsible for their absence, rather than Blizzard attempting to keep the factions separate and has been known to be prone to rants, one of which is memorialised in @Aeula's signature as the evidence has since been deleted.

    If you wanted a pro High Elfer to debate I think @RangerDaz would be the best. I mean I utterly disagree with Daz don't get me wrong, but we have had civil conversations on this topic.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2018-10-01 at 01:09 PM.

  13. #6953
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    Well I guess since this thread is back to the front page

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=287534/...rmor-questline

    The elves reflect on what it means to be sin'dorei:
    For thousands of years, the Sunwell meant everything to our people. Arthas dealt us a grievous wound when he defiled it.
    My faith was shattered when Silvermoon fell. I lost sight of who I was. But by the grace of the Light, I found redemption before it was too late.
    Let this monument serve as a reminder of what it means to be sin'dorei. That our every deed may honor the sacrifices of those who came before us.
    No matter how much pain we endure, we will not lose hope. In the face of darkness, look always to the Eternal Sun.
    We must put this misery behind us. We are no longer high elves! In honor of the blood that was shed and the sacrifices of our loved ones... as of this day, we are sin'dorei!
    So again, Blizzard (Ion) says one thing and adds in another into the game. Scenario differentiates what being a Blood Elf means and its narrative further reinforces they don't consider themselves to be High Elves, going so far as to not imply a simple name change but more impactful identity change. That following the Light, moving forward, and putting their tragedy behind them are all core to being a Blood Elf.

  14. #6954
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    It's probably best not to judge the entire community by Lionknight/WoWJedi/Runicknight's hyperbole. That individual holds those of us opposed to playable High Elves responsible for their absence, rather than Blizzard attempting to keep the factions separate and has been known to be prone to rants, one of which is memorialised in @Aeula's signature as the evidence has since been deleted.

    If you wanted a pro High Elfer to debate I think @RangerDaz would be the best. I mean I utterly disagree with Daz don't get me wrong, but we have had civil conversations on this topic.
    Is there really anything left to debate? I see us only rehashing the same old, same old. And now the High Elf discord is just filled with repeated mantras, hate for Ion, hate for Blood Elf players and hate for Horde. After months of discussion on the WoW forums there seems nothing left to say that hasn't already been said. And how dare anyone ask for blue eyes for Blood Elves when their group takes personal offense at it?
    Oi...sorry seems I've gotten frustrated.

  15. #6955
    You seem to be obsessed with what high elf fans think, when you even go on their discord. It is not healthy to be concerned about things that frustrate you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinobianca View Post
    And how dare anyone ask for blue eyes for Blood Elves when their group takes personal offense at it?

    Because people can already play blue eyed Blood elves, they are called Void elves. So those posts are spam at this point.
    Last edited by Andromedes; 2018-10-01 at 02:29 PM.

  16. #6956
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinobianca View Post
    Is there really anything left to debate? I see us only rehashing the same old, same old. And now the High Elf discord is just filled with repeated mantras, hate for Ion, hate for Blood Elf players and hate for Horde. After months of discussion on the WoW forums there seems nothing left to say that hasn't already been said. And how dare anyone ask for blue eyes for Blood Elves when their group takes personal offense at it?
    Oi...sorry seems I've gotten frustrated.
    There isn't anything left to debate at all. It's all been said and done over the years, the only difference is new people come and go as they despair of the topic or find something better to do. I started saving the threads I participated in in a folder after a while relating to this topic and it currently sits at 58 (although half of them have been created since summer 2017 when the first references to void elves were datamined). Earliest one I have a record for was in March 2013 which must be when I started saving them in the folder.

    It used to go in cycles you see. About six to seven months before an expansion would launch the pro High Elf threads would start. And then the antis would argue against it. It would start slowly as first, and then increase in pace in the run up to the announcement. I remember it being very bad (this year has been worse, but up until that point summer/autumn 2013 was awful) in the run up to the Warlords of Draenor announcement and then, the announcement, no news on High Elves and everyone would go back to playing the game. The pro High Elf posters would voice disappointment (well it wasn't a community back then) but they'd go 'maybe next time'. There were, believe it or not, very long stretches of time where the High Elf debate was dormant.

    To understand why it has changed, and the High Elf spam has grown incessant, you have to understand the pro High Elf thought process over the years. For the longest time, what kept them going was the promise of a sub-race system. The idea was, a system would be put in place allowing a mild cosmetic variant of an existing race (in this case the Blood Elves) to be brought into the game. If High Elves weren't different enough to be a 'main' race, then they could be an Alliance aligned sub-race.

    You can find an example of this here https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...d-you-play-one

    Ion had made the comment that they were thinking about adding a sub-race system in the future and he off-handedly mentioned High Elves and Brown Orcs. So that it seems became the shining star for many years, the sub-race system that would one day bring them playable High Elves.

    And then BFA was announced along with the long awaited sub-race system and....Void Elves. The system that many of the pro High Elf community had been waiting for, would deliver them Alliance High Elves, was here but instead of getting Alliance High Elves they got a variant. Same model, same people, but blue and with optional tentacles. The phrase I heard bandied about at the time was 'Monkey's Paw' where the result of the wish is not the one intended. I figure there was deep disappointment. This was compounded the next day when Ion Hazzikostas revealed in a live stream with Jessie Cox that Blizzard considered Blood Elves, playable High Elves and that Void Elves were a variant.

    I believe the reason this provoked such a strong reaction among the pro High Elf community, even moreso than the Void Elves reveal, was because of the long debate with the Anti High Elf posters. The core of the Anti High Elf argument has always been that nomenclature is unimportant. No matter what they call themselves, Blood Elves are culturally, thematically and physically identical to High Elves. They ARE High Elves and a change in adjective doesn't change the fact that they are still the same people as they were before Arthas invaded. So whenever pro and anti commentators went at it, every Anti made the point that High Elves were already playable as Blood Elves. And the pros would argue back that they weren't. Except this was different. This wasn't an Anti high elf poster. This was the senior-most developer using anti High Elf language. Rather than it being the varying opinions of two groups of people with a keyboard, the Game Director validated the Anti High Elf argument.

    People like me were proven correct in our interpretation and our arguments.

    Which led to the six month period between November 2017 and late April 2018, when the pro High Elf community organised into a community. They opened their discord, began manufacturing artwork (this thread originally began as an attempt by the OP to show High Elves as an Allied race) and they began spamming every wow related forum they could find with pro High Elf topics. That then devolved into shouting matches between pro and anti commentators. While the frequency has decreased, there are usually threads on the topic active on any wow forum. You can even find one now on the US forums.

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...9327305?page=1

    Bonus points if you find Lionknight. His commentary is unique and stands out.

    The tragedy of the pro High Elf community in that six month period is that they fell for their own hype. The idea was to convince Blizzard to change their minds and add Alliance High Elves. And they thought they were making a difference. A Blizzard employee named Candace Thomas mentioned on her personal twitter account that she likes the idea of playable High Elves (something I wonder if she regrets as the pro High Elf community now makes sure they tag her in every piece of art or every suggestion they come up with). Jeremy Feasal, aka Muffinus, cracked a harmless joke about playable High Elves and sent them into a frenzy. Any acknowledgement at all was translated into 'WE ARE WINNING'. You could tell at the time they felt they had momentum behind them, that it was just a matter of time before Blizzard gave in and announced them.

    And then April 26th rolled around, the Q and A. It's a date I remember as my flight back to Ireland from Stansted was delayed for six hours so it sticks in my mind, that was seriously unpleasant. I have ventured onto the High Elf discord twice in my time. Once by accident, when I clicked into it and then rapidly clicked out, and then once much later at work when I had some downtime and my curiosity got the better of me. I never regarded the first access as seriously going in, but I have perused it now so I can't say I've never been in the High Elf discord anymore. I guess I was curious to see what exactly the reaction was from April 26th, and it was pretty much what I expected. Complete meltdown, same as it was here. As I said, they fell victim to their own hype. They really believed they were winning. But Ion came out and just restated what he said at Blizzcon, making clear nothing had changed and that six months of work had rewarded diddly squat.

    Some conceded with dignity. Traycor, whose admittedly wonderful artwork can be found at the beginning of this post has moved on. I often wished he had been inspired by another group within WoW rather than Alliance High Elves, but that was not to be. Others are still pretty vitriolic.

    A lot of anger is directed at Ion of course. It's classic scapegoating. He is held responsible for the decision to block High Elves, no matter how many times it is pointed out in forums that development on WoW is team based and the decision can't have been his alone. Still, the simplistic idea has formed that if Ion is fired or if he leaves that the next Game Director will give them what they want.

    Still, that's essentially why we are where we are on this topic in my opinion. It's a long running debate that has been ignited because the mechanism the pro High Elf community has been waiting for to enable playable High Elves has been provided...and at the exact same moment the Anti High Elf position was validated by Blizzard.

    There is only one thing that will bring the debate to an end in my opinion. It is not giving Blood Elves blue eyes. Nor is it allowing Alliance High Elves, as that has been explicitly ruled out (for very good reasons) and a thalassian variant clearly intended as a compromise has been implemented.

    The Alliance High Elf story, such as it is, has to be brought to an end. Which really means Veressa's story. Alliance High Elves do exist after all. I have long considered them a story prop, adding depth and texture to the game world, an acknowledgement that at once point the Elves of Silvermoon were part of the Alliance, even if the vast majority of them are now a part of the Horde. Yet if the demand for them is causing Alliance players to have a negative attitude towards Void Elves, because Void Elves can never be what they some want them to be (a blue eyed duplicate of a core Horde race)...then they need to go.

    A Silvermoon/Quel'thalas warfront could be the logical moment to bring that story to an end, leaving only the light based Blood Elves who embody the traditional Tolkienesque elf and the Void Elves to carry the story forward. However, if that is not to be, we have to accept that these threads will probably be with us for a while yet.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2018-10-05 at 10:15 PM.

  17. #6957
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    There isn't anything left to debate at all. It's all been said and done over the years, the only difference is new people come and go as they despair of the topic or find something better to do. I started saving the threads I participated in in a folder after a while relating to this topic and it currently sits at 58 (although half of them have been created since summer 2017 when the first references to void elves were datamined). Earliest one I have a record for was in March 2013 which must be when I started saving them in the folder.

    It used to go in cycles you see. About six to seven months before an expansion would launch the pro High Elf threads would start. And then the antis would argue against it. It would start slowly as first, and then increase in pace in the run up to the announcement. I remember it being very bad (this year has been worse, but up until that point summer/autumn 2013 was awful) in the run up to the Warlords of Draenor announcement and then, the announcement, no news on High Elves and everyone would go back to playing the game. The pro High Elf posters would voice disappointment (well it wasn't a community back then) but they'd go 'maybe next time'. There were, believe it or not, very long stretches of time where the High Elf debate was dormant.

    To understand why it has changed, and the High Elf spam has grown incessant, you have to understand the pro High Elf thought process over the years. For the longest time, what kept them going was the promise of a sub-race system. The idea was, a system would be put in place allowing a mild cosmetic variant of an existing race (in this case the Blood Elves) to be brought into the game. If High Elves weren't different enough to be a 'main' race, then they could be an Alliance aligned sub-race.

    You can find an example of this here https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...d-you-play-one

    Ion had made the comment that they were thinking about adding a sub-race system in the future and he off-handedly mentioned High Elves and Brown Orcs. So that it seems became the shining star for many years, the sub-race system that would one day bring them playable High Elves.

    And then BFA was announced along with the long awaited sub-race system and....Void Elves. The system that many of the pro High Elf community had been waiting for, would deliver them Alliance High Elves, was here but instead of getting Alliance High Elves they got a variant. Same model, same people, but blue and with optional tentacles. The phrase I heard bandied about at the time was 'Monkey's Paw' where the result of the wish is not the one intended. I figure there was deep disappointment. This was compounded the next day when Ion Hazzikostas revealed in a live stream with Jessie Cox that Blizzard considered Blood Elves, playable High Elves and that Void Elves were a variant.

    I believe the reason this provoked such a strong reaction among the pro High Elf community, even moreso than the Void Elves reveal, was because of the long debate with the Anti High Elf posters. The core of the Anti High Elf argument has always been that nomenclature is unimportant. No matter what they call themselves, Blood Elves are culturally, thematically and physically identical to High Elves. They ARE High Elves and a change in adjective doesn't change the fact that they are still the same people as they were before Arthas invaded. So whenever pro and anti commentators went at it, every Anti made the point that High Elves were already playable as Blood Elves. And the pros would argue back that they weren't. Except this was different. This wasn't an Anti high elf poster. This was the senior-most developer using anti High Elf language. Rather than it being the varying opinions of two groups of people with a keyboard, the Game Director validated the Anti High Elf argument.

    People like me were proven correct in our interpretation and our arguments.

    Which led to the six month period between November 2017 and late April 2018, when the pro High Elf community organised into a community. They opened their discord, began manufacturing artwork (this thread originally began as an attempt by the OP to show High Elves as an Allied race) and they began spamming every wow related forum they could find with pro High Elf topics. That then devolved into shouting matches between pro and anti commentators. While the frequency has decreased, there are usually threads on the topic active on any wow forum. You can even find one now on the US forums.

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...9327305?page=1

    Bonus points if you find Lionknight. His commentary is unique and stands out.

    The tragedy of the pro High Elf community in that six month period is that they fell for their own hype. The idea was to convince Blizzard to change their minds and add Alliance High Elves. And they thought they were making a difference. A Blizzard employee named Candace Thomas mentioned on her personal twitter account that she likes the idea of playable High Elves (something I wonder if she regrets as the pro High Elf community now makes sure they tag her in every piece of art or every suggestion they come up with). Jeremy Feasal, aka Muffinus, cracked a harmless joke about playable High Elves and sent them into a frenzy. Any acknowledgement at all was translated into 'WE ARE WINNING'. You could tell at the time they felt they had momentum behind them, that it was just a matter of time before Blizzard gave in and announced them.

    And then April 26th rolled around, the Q and A. It's a date I remember as my flight back to Ireland from Gatwick was delayed for six hours so it sticks in my mind, that was seriously unpleasant. I have ventured onto the High Elf discord twice in my time. Once by accident, when I clicked into it and then rapidly clicked out, and then once much later at work when I had some downtime and my curiosity got the better of me. I never regarded the first access as seriously going in, but I have perused it now so I can't say I've never been in the High Elf discord anymore. I guess I was curious to see what exactly the reaction was from April 26th, and it was pretty much what I expected. Complete meltdown, same as it was here. As I said, they fell victim to their own hype. They really believed they were winning. But Ion came out and just restated what he said at Blizzcon, making clear nothing had changed and that six months of work had rewarded diddly squat.

    Some conceded with dignity. Traycor, whose admittedly wonderful artwork can be found at the beginning of this post has moved on. I often wished he had been inspired by another group within WoW rather than Alliance High Elves, but that was not to be. Others are still pretty vitriolic.

    A lot of anger is directed at Ion of course. It's classic scapegoating. He is held responsible for the decision to block High Elves, no matter how many times it is pointed out in forums that development on WoW is team based and the decision can't have been his alone. Still, the simplistic idea has formed that if Ion is fired or if he leaves that the next Game Director will give them what they want.

    Still, that's essentially why we are where we are on this topic in my opinion. It's a long running debate that has been ignited because the mechanism the pro High Elf community has been waiting for to enable playable High Elves has been provided...and at the exact same moment the Anti High Elf position was validated by Blizzard.

    There is only one thing that will bring the debate to an end in my opinion. It is not giving Blood Elves blue eyes. Nor is it allowing Alliance High Elves, as that has been explicitly ruled out (for very good reasons) and a thalassian variant clearly intended as a compromise has been implemented.

    The Alliance High Elf story, such as it is, has to be brought to an end. Which really means Veressa's story. Alliance High Elves do exist after all. I have long considered them a story prop, adding depth and texture to the game world, an acknowledgement that at once point the Elves of Silvermoon were part of the Alliance, even if the vast majority of them are now a part of the Horde. Yet if the demand for them is causing Alliance players to have a negative attitude towards Void Elves, because Void Elves can never be what they some want them to be (a blue eyed duplicate of a core Horde race)...then they need to go.

    A Silvermoon/Quel'thalas warfront could be the logical moment to bring that story to an end, leaving only the light based Blood Elves who embody the traditional Tolkienesque elf and the Void Elves to carry the story forward. However, if that is not to be, we have to accept that these threads will probably be with us for a while yet.
    Ironically, a Silvermoon warfront would actually progress the Alliance High Elf story even more. Nighthold showed the different elf groups (Sin'dorei, Quel'dorei, Kaldorei) all represented in something that had mainly to do with Kaldorei only.

    To expect that a Silvermoon warfront, of which Alliance High Elves would for sure feature in as well, would put an end to debate is pretty absurd. "Let's end this debate by giving them even MOAR story!"

    The same sort of speculation rose up when Anti-helfers presumed with full confidence in themselves that Vereesa and all High Elves would end up dead at the burning of Teldrassil when there was no evidence to the contrary. Unlike the High Elf side that can continually produce evidence of High Elf involvement on Alliance side. No other unplayable group continues to be represented through each expansion as High Elves do for Alliance.

    But then again, the fact that Obelisk is someone who has apparently been collecting a folder of these topics sort of shows a level of obsession that few people have, probably being too engrossed into the topic can cause that? Idk.

    No the way to end the topic/debate is if Blizzard just ignored and stopped adding High Elves to Alliance areas. The best way to make something disappear is to not talk about it. Nowhere in the story is it showing that High Elves are dwindling, therefore to think adding more story will dwindle them is confounding.

  18. #6958
    I changed from "whahaha Void Elves" when the first rumours came to be, to "oh they are cool" when it was announced. And now it's "Void Elves mmmm <3 <3 <3 ^^

    They couldn't have modeled them any better, best "race" addition in a long time. When you kill the Void Elf lady in Island Expedition, and she starts laughing LMAO!

    Sin' and Ren'dorei ftw!
    https://www.youtube.com/@DoffenGG
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  19. #6959
    Pit Lord Sigxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    When you kill the Void Elf lady in Island Expedition, and she starts laughing LMAO!
    I actually wish more Void Elves were like her, I think it fits the Void Elf personality perfectly!

  20. #6960
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    I actually wish more Void Elves were like her, I think it fits the Void Elf personality perfectly!
    Yeah, she is very cool, insane, but cool

    The other two male sounds like Blood Elves, in the way they talk, I guess they learned how to deal with the Void or something, but the lady(Shadeweaver Zarra) totally lost it, and that is funny :P
    https://www.youtube.com/@DoffenGG
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