Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Except, again, the issue is that blizzard has stated that they don’t want the same race available to both factions.
Mag’har orcs and orcs are still on the same faction.

And as has been stated many times over - any customizations high elves have, blood elves would/should have too.
Just cause Alleria really liked face paint doesn’t make that a racial identity. Sylvanas, Halduron and Lorthremar were all high elf rangers with Alleria at the same time. They just didn’t paint their faces. That’s like thinking it’d be legitimate to include a race of humans on the Horde because they all wear bandanas.

You dare mock bandana-men? Blizzard has never specifically stated to my liking that they will never implement bandana-men. Bandana-men are racially distinct from humans of the eastern kingdoms and honestly feel more at home in kalimdor anyways and fighting for the horde. It's all right there in the lore. Just because they look the same, speak the same language, and even wear the same styled bandanas as Alliance humans doesn't mean they are exclusive to the alliance. Just because 99% of the humans joined the Alliance during the last war doesn't mean there isn't still room for a story that would allow them to join the horde, clearly this is a case of extreme bias. For more information on how bandana-men can become a playable race check out my deviantart, discord, and don't forget to donate to my patreon please leave a like and subscribe and hit that notification button.

[Deleted]

If you can’t understand that physiological mutations or isolation for generations can lead to unique aesthetics as logical to be included, I just don’t think we’re going to get anywhere.
Which is fine I suppose.

I’m not saying that the different hair styles/skins/facial hair or whatever aren’t there to add uniqueness for the models. I’m saying it makes sense that they be unique and have unique qualities. It wouldn’t make sense for high elves to look unique due to a lack of the physical and cultural changes that are present in other allied races.
10 years of division while also still being around their kin =/= mutations and generational isolation.

Giving high elves their own physical uniqueness based on one ranger’s own aesthetics (who had been MIA for decades) and then comparing this to the other allied races with their justifiable cause for uniqueness seems silly to me.

Void Elves got the ability to have beards during the transformation?

[Grythletubs]

Except, again, the issue is that blizzard has stated that they don’t want the same race available to both factions.
Mag’har orcs and orcs are still on the same faction.

And as has been stated many times over - any customizations high elves have, blood elves would/should have too.
Just cause Alleria really liked face paint doesn’t make that a racial identity. Sylvanas, Halduron and Lorthremar were all high elf rangers with Alleria at the same time. They just didn’t paint their faces. That’s like thinking it’d be legitimate to include a race of humans on the Horde because they all wear bandanas.

This would be a good argument if you ignored the fact that there are no humans on the horde, whereas the alliance high elves are still one of their core races.

That's what many people seem to ignore. People who want high elves aren't asking for an entirely new race...they're just asking for a current alliance race to be playable. I'm sorry that the similarities between blood elves and high elves flusters you so much.
If the horde had humans as a major race that isn't playable, you can bet your ass people would be requesting them.

[Obelisk Kai]

This would be a good argument if you ignored the fact that there are no humans on the horde, whereas the alliance high elves are still one of their core races.

That's what many people seem to ignore. People who want high elves aren't asking for an entirely new race...they're just asking for a current alliance race to be playable. I'm sorry that the similarities between blood elves and high elves flusters you so much.
If the horde had humans as a major race that isn't playable, you can bet your ass people would be requesting them.

Alliance High Elves are not playable. By definition, they are therefore not a core Alliance race. They are a minor faction kept around for an occasional story purpose.

That the Alliance High Elves are present on the Alliance is not the issue, that they are identical to an available Horde race is.

I don't believe the similarities fluster Villager720, as they are the rationale behind why High Elves are not playable. They are an impediment to what you want and not vice versa.

As for your final comment, a major race is by definition playable. As unplayable race in a faction is not major. However for the sake of argument, were there an equivalent faction of Horde affiliated Humans and some were asking for them to be playable despite being identical to already playable Alliance Humans, I would be the first to oppose their position and state to them the truth 'the Alliance is waiting for you'.

[Grythletubs]

Alliance High Elves are not playable. By definition, they are therefore not a core Alliance race. They are a minor faction kept around for an occasional story purpose.

That the Alliance High Elves are present on the Alliance is not the issue, that they are identical to an available Horde race is.

I don't believe the similarities fluster Villager720, as they are the rationale behind why High Elves are not playable. They are an impediment to what you want and not vice versa.

As for your final comment, a major race is by definition playable. As unplayable race in a faction is not major. However for the sake of argument, were there an equivalent faction of Horde affiliated Humans and some were asking for them to be playable despite being identical to already playable Alliance Humans, I would be the first to oppose their position and state to them the truth 'the Alliance is waiting for you'.

From a lore perspective (and in game, obnoxiously), High elves have been a core race in the alliance since the dawn of wow, and still are.
Your personal definition of what kind of faction they are does not change that that they are a core race, a major race, in the alliance.

"Occasional story purposes", you mean like pretty much every book and every expansion since wotlk? They've received more attention than even blood elves ironically.

If there was a race with a presence similar to the high elves in the horde that was not playable, Horde would be asking for them.
But that's not the case, every main iconic horde race is playable.

Like I said, comparing a race of humans with bandanas on the horde (which don't exist) is not a good comparison to high elves (which do exist) for obvious reasons.

Next.

[Neverafter]

If there was a race with a presence similar to the high elves in the horde that was not playable, Horde would be asking for them.
But that's not the case, every main iconic horde race is playable.


Next.

Ogre say hi

[Obelisk Kai]

High elves have been a core race in the alliance since the dawn of wow, and still are.
Your personal definition on what level of involvement or what kind of faction they are does not change that that they are a core race, a major race.

If there was a race with a presence similar to the high elves in the horde that was not playable, Horde would be asking for them.
But that's not the case, every main iconic horde race is playable.

Like I said, comparing a race of humans with bandanas on the horde (which don't exist) is not a good comparison to high elves (which do exist) for obvious reasons.

Next.

This has nothing to do with my personal definition.

Are they a major race in terms of lore? No. It has been confirmed there are very few of them. They do not have a leader within the higher echelons of the Alliance, Veressa works for the Kirin Tor and Alleria is the Void Elf racial leader.

Are they a major race in terms of gameplay? No. As has been stated, they are not a playable race.

In which case, what is happening here is that you are pushing your personal definition of what constitutes a core race of the Alliance upon everyone else to justify the inclusion of a group that is not major in terms of lore or in terms of gameplay. That means your response is hypocritical.

- - - Updated - - -

Ogre say hi

To be fair, most Ogres left the Horde. They were an iconic Horde race, but we can't consider them so at the moment. If they are ever made playable as a Horde race, that will change.

[Cien]

This has nothing to do with my personal definition.

Are they a major race in terms of lore? No. It has been confirmed there are very few of them. They do not have a leader within the higher echelons of the Alliance, Veressa works for the Kirin Tor and Alleria is the Void Elf racial leader.

Are they a major race in terms of gameplay? No. As has been stated, they are not a playable race.

In which case, what is happening here is that you are pushing your personal definition of what constitutes a core race of the Alliance upon everyone else to justify the inclusion of a group that is not major in terms of lore or in terms of gameplay. That means your response is hypocritical.

- - - Updated - - -

I know you're trying hard to discredit people wanting high elves in game, but openly ignoring that Vereesa and Alleria and their respective factions (Silver Covenant and Velves) are as Alliance as they get is pretty silly. They're high ranking commanders who hold a lot of sway appearing at important battles in the game from wotlk to present and have been incorporated fully into the Alliance and in turn commit themselves to the Alliance.

[Obelisk Kai]

I know you're trying hard to discredit people wanting high elves in game, but openly ignoring that Vereesa and Alleria and their respective factions (Silver Covenant and Velves) are as Alliance as they get is pretty silly. They're high ranking commanders who hold a lot of sway appearing at important battles in the game from wotlk to present and have been incorporated fully into the Alliance and in turn commit themselves to the Alliance.

I am not denying Alleria, who is the leader of a playable Alliance race and who seems to have more heft within the Alliance after five minutes of being back than Veressa accrued in her years with the Silver Covenant.

Which is unsurprising, as the Silver Covenant is a small militia based in Dalaran under the authority of the Kirin Tor. Veressa is not a major Alliance figure, and is more akin to someone like Grand Admiral Jes-Tereth or Mattias Shaw in terms of rank and importance.

[Goldielocks]

You know, I've been trying to rationalize what has caused the uptick in High Elf threads again on the official forums, this has been a pretty dead topic since the meltdown following the 04/26 Q and A died down (admittedly that took two months).

Was it the revelation of the potential Silvermoon warfront?

Definitely but this was proven as fake due to the fact that the list it was displayed with did not have Darkshore on it.

the Alliance allied race hasn't even been hinted at. So of course you can bet the pro High Elf community has likely convinced themselves that that hole is being saved for Alliance High Elves.

It has actually. What happens in the next raid with Mekkatorque, suggests Mechagnomes. It's what most people I've seen expect to see as the next announced Alliance allied race alongside Vulpera.

[Grythletubs]

This has nothing to do with my personal definition.

Are they a major race in terms of lore? No. It has been confirmed there are very few of them. They do not have a leader within the higher echelons of the Alliance, Veressa works for the Kirin Tor and Alleria is the Void Elf racial leader.

Are they a major race in terms of gameplay? No. As has been stated, they are not a playable race.

In which case, what is happening here is that you are pushing your personal definition of what constitutes a core race of the Alliance upon everyone else to justify the inclusion of a group that is not major in terms of lore or in terms of gameplay. That means your response is hypocritical.

- - - Updated - - -



To be fair, most Ogres left the Horde. They were an iconic Horde race, but we can't consider them so at the moment. If they are ever made playable as a Horde race, that will change.

That's nice,

Like I said, you can ignore the fact that high elves are a major alliance race as much as you want.
People are requesting them because they still are a core alliance race, but aren't playable.
I'm not pushing any definitions, I'm just stating the obvious fact that high elves are a major alliance race in a lore perspective. I'm not talking about gameplay.

Have fun bathing in your ignorance though.

[melzas]

This has nothing to do with my personal definition.

Are they a major race in terms of lore? No. It has been confirmed there are very few of them. They do not have a leader within the higher echelons of the Alliance, Veressa works for the Kirin Tor and Alleria is the Void Elf racial leader.

Are they a major race in terms of gameplay? No. As has been stated, they are not a playable race.

In which case, what is happening here is that you are pushing your personal definition of what constitutes a core race of the Alliance upon everyone else to justify the inclusion of a group that is not major in terms of lore or in terms of gameplay. That means your response is hypocritical.

Man, this Vareesa working for Kirin Tor is bullshit. You are grasping at straws here, Vareesa is full on alliance member, you like it or not...

[Goldielocks]

I'm not talking about gameplay.

You realize that gameplay and the fact that WoW is a game first is why HE aren't playable, right?

[Grythletubs]

You realize that gameplay and the fact that WoW is a game first is why HE aren't playable, right?

I speak of gameplay because right now, you cannot play high elves.

His definition of a core race is whether they're playable or not. I'm speaking of core race as a race that's been a founding race in the alliance, and constantly given lore progression since wotlk, moreso than even their sin'dorei brothers and sisters.

Blizzard would not be adding any races to the game if you use obelisks definition of "core race". It's stupid and sounds desperate.

- - - Updated - - -

Man, this Vareesa working for Kirin Tor is bullshit. You are grasping at straws here, Vareesa is full on alliance member, you like it or not...

He says that because he hasn't touched wow since wotlk (even though the silver covenant was hostile towards horde then as well)

[Goldielocks]

I'm speaking of core race as a race that's been a founding race in the alliance, and constantly given lore progression since wotlk, moreso than even their sin'dorei brothers and sisters.

That argument doesn't work anymore. The High Elves stopped being a fundamental Alliance race when Warcraft became less narrative driven and more gameplay driven with the shift from RTS to MMO. You can even see in a fairly recent John Staats interview where he stated that the devs gave the Horde High Elves just because new asian players (when the asian servers were new) wanted a prettier race to play on the Horde. All of this was done to increase subscriber or player retention. To that end, the lore had to heel.

Also the idea that High Elves have had more lore progression than Blood Elves is highly subjective, and not an argument.

[Grythletubs]

I am not denying Alleria, who is the leader of a playable Alliance race and who seems to have more heft within the Alliance after five minutes of being back than Veressa accrued in her years with the Silver Covenant.

Which is unsurprising, as the Silver Covenant is a small militia based in Dalaran under the authority of the Kirin Tor. Veressa is not a major Alliance figure, and is more akin to someone like Grand Admiral Jes-Tereth or Mattias Shaw in terms of rank and importance.

Silver covenant aren't under the kirin tor.

Now let's say they were: you completely ignore the fact that the kirin'tor and the silver covenant were alliance from MoP to Legion. And you completely ignore the fact that the silver covenant were no longer in Dalaran in legion.

So really Kai, it doesn't matter because either way you counter your own arguments (which are extremely desperate)

[Obelisk Kai]

Definitely but this was proven as fake due to the fact that the list it was displayed with did not have Darkshore on it.

I don't believe it is fake, more that it was a very early draft. There was corroborating evidence of a Barrens Warfront after all with the datamined maps and the music you can currently hear there. My own personal opinion is that the Azshara warfront was scrapped in favour of the Darkshore warfront, that the Barrens warfront is likely to come in 8.2 and that the Silvermoon or Quel'thalas warfront is likely, as something that big wouldn't just be brainstormed randomly. Given the scale of the work involved and the target, I figure Silvermoon will be the 8.3 warfront and it will play a role in the conclusion of the faction war we are as yet unaware of.

It has actually. What happens in the next raid with Mekkatorque, suggests Mechagnomes. It's what most people I've seen expect to see as the next announced Alliance allied race alongside Vulpera.

Juncker Gnomes. If true, then there is going to be a lot of complaining. Whilst Mecha Gnomes have been requested in the past, there is going to be a LOT of very angry Alliance players upset at getting such a race.

- - - Updated - - -

That's nice,

Like I said, you can ignore the fact that high elves are a major alliance race as much as you want.
People are requesting them because they still are a core alliance race, but aren't playable.
I'm not pushing any definitions, I'm just stating the obvious fact that high elves are a major alliance race in a lore perspective. I'm not talking about gameplay.

Have fun bathing in your ignorance though.

You have not proven they are a major race in any capacity, you are simply stating that they are and dismissing anyone who challenges you because you believe it to be self-evident. And as stated later, the reason they are not playable is primarily a gameplay one, in that they already are for the opposing faction and Blizzard wishes to preserve the distinctiveness of the factions. But there are supporting reasons in lore as to why they are not available.

- - - Updated - - -

Man, this Vareesa working for Kirin Tor is bullshit. You are grasping at straws here, Vareesa is full on alliance member, you like it or not...

Veressa maybe an Alliance member, but the Kirin Tor is officially neutral and the Silver Covenant serves the Kirin Tor. Individual High Elves may serve the Alliance, and I believe we have seen a handful of 7th Legion Shield Mages in the Warfront on the airship, but they were not there in the capacity of the Silver Covenant.

Which leaves Veressa as being a noticeable High Elf within the Alliance, who does not have the same standing as her void elf sister.

[AngerFork]

Like I said, you can ignore the fact that high elves are a major alliance race as much as you want.
People are requesting them because they still are a core alliance race, but aren't playable.
I'm not pushing any definitions, I'm just stating the obvious fact that high elves are a major alliance race in a lore perspective. I'm not talking about gameplay.

They were, but are they still? Most of their race went back to Silvermoon and became Blood Elves. There are in lore not a whole lot of High Elves left at the moment. We could get more, sure...but right now, they are definitely not as numerous as nearly any Alliance playable main race (maybe Pandaren, maybe). Perhaps they are more prevalent than the Void Elves or the Lightforged, but then we should also look at how each affects things from a lore perspective.

Void Elves in a lore perspective came out of nowhere, but they do a ton for the story going forward. If we eventually are to fight the Void, why not have a race that lives everything Void to lead the way. They have shown us new powers and have a high potential for conflict and darkening the overall tone of the Alliance going forward.

Lightforged (or the Army of the Light) had story throughout Legion (though moreso in Argus), but also provide plenty of lore that they can bring going forward. After the Argus events involving X'era and Illidan, we know that the Light is not always right. Plus, we in the Lightforged have a displaced Army that gave the Alliance/Horde a lift back home after Argus, but have no way back to our knowledge and no fight left to have. How does such an army respond to their fight going away from protecting the universe and towards a racial spat instead? How does their "light is right" belief system align when teaming up with creatures filled with void such as the Void Elves?

The High Elves on the other hand don't really have these racial directions at this point. We've seen them talking to some of the new Void Elves, and we know about Veressa. They at one point had a lot of story, but have they really had a whole lot to do at any point in the story since WoW first launched? As it stands right now, they are a race simply watching the clock until their own extinction unless something changes.

[melzas]

Veressa maybe an Alliance member, but the Kirin Tor is officially neutral and the Silver Covenant serves the Kirin Tor. Individual High Elves may serve the Alliance, and I believe we have seen a handful of 7th Legion Shield Mages in the Warfront on the airship, but they were not there in the capacity of the Silver Covenant.

Which leaves Veressa as being a noticeable High Elf within the Alliance, who does not have the same standing as her void elf sister.

Individual High Elves? I suggest you go do some quests on isle of thunder, alliance side, where there is pretty much major high elf force that asks you to kill blood elves and the horde in various daily quests. Totally Kirin-tor neutral guys.

[Grythletubs]

That argument doesn't work anymore. The High Elves stopped being a fundamental Alliance race when Warcraft became less narrative driven and more gameplay driven with the shift from RTS to MMO. You can even see in a fairly recent John Staats interview that the devs gave the Horde High Elves just because new asian players (when the asian servers were new) wanted a prettier race to play on the Horde. All of this was done to increase subscriber or player retention. To that end, the lore had to heel.

Also the idea that High Elves have had more lore progression than Blood Elves is highly subjective, and not an argument.

Okay so you don't think they should be playable because blood elves are horde.

Were not talking about blood elves, this thread is about the alliance high elves.

Also they have had more progression than blood elves. You hear the name Vereesa or Alleria more often than Lor'Themar, Lor'Themar hasn't played any role in any expansion since MoP where the alliance's counterpart was Vereesa. And in the books as well, Vereesa and Alleria(ironically, even though she's been gone forever) are more spoken about.