Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Obelisk Kai]

Void elves were added to replace the High elves, there, that was the solution. I don't see them ever happening at this point because of the velf addition to the alliance.

Well yes, strip away all the bullshit and that's literally the occam's razor answer. Void Elves were clearly added to be a sort of High Elf on the Alliance and the actual High Elf is on the Horde. That's almost certainly the end of it.

But why go for the easy and obvious answer when we can read vague community manager answers to convince ourselves that contrary to all logic and sense, High Elves are totally being announced at Blizzcon.

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I guess they know that, because there lived High Elves in Teramore.. But that's just details right.

Theramore was a primarily Human city with a few High Elves who were likely killed in the bombing? Why do you give me an answer that just proves me right?

Alleria?

Is a Void Elf and is on a separate path.

And that doesn't matter at all. A story doesn't have to be the things you listed.

No, but it does have to involve a narrative of some description. High Elves have never carried their own story.

Stop peddling this nonsense, they have been part of the Alliance story for several years now. Yeah everyone gotta have a leader, and Vereesa is the High Elf one. So weird that the leaders gets the most of the attention. What you just said about they having to be playable to be part of the story, what a load of bullshit. I guess the Man'ari was not a part of the story in Legion, the Iron Orcs in WoD was not part of the story and so on, because they are not playable

Ridiculous counterpoints just show how shallow your argument is. We are not arguing about an NPC group who serve a narrative need at a particular moment in time. You are trying to prove that a minor group within the Alliance is worthy of being made playable and failing to do so. Remember, the pro High Elf notion that the Alliance High Elves are a big and important part of the narrative is entirely a construct of the pro High Elf community. A cursory examination of what you presume to be their major role seems to be about Veressa on almost every occasion.

[Doffen]

No, they were supporting troops at suramar for the night elves. They were supporting troops for the alliance while fighting the scourge. The only time they take a major role is hinged on the presence of one character. No other races is that insignificant to where it only preforms a supporting role or is reliant on one character.

They were supporting troops for the Nightfallen, Khadgar, the class hall champion, sent on behalf of the Alliance. Elisande(blizz) definitely does not agree with that. They refer to the Quel'dorei as one entity. Three troops were there, Blood Elves, Night Elves and High Elves.

No other races is that insignificant to where it only preforms a supporting role or is reliant on one character.

They are supporting troops, roles etc for the Alliance. Just like Night Elves, Gnomes, Worgen and so on. Only recently Night Elves have gotten attention. Dwarves? Little bit in Cataclysm, and always the Bronzebeards. And they should be the second highest ranked Alliance race in the regard of importance. Worgen is Genn Greymane. Gnomes? Not even close. Night Elves been under the bush until the attack on Teldrassil. Draeneis except Warlords, got one patch, 7.3, the last 10 years. High Elves got more contributions than all those.

[Andromedes]

Void elves were added to replace the High elves, there, that was the solution. I don't see them ever happening at this point because of the velf addition to the alliance.

It looks like they werent replaced at all, when you see high elven npcs in warfronts. All what void elves did was being present at battle for lordaeron and now they are token npcs in form of inkeepers and flight masters. The only void elf that does something is Umbric.

[TriHard]

It looks like they werent replaced at all, when you see high elven npcs in warfronts. All what void elves did was being present at battle for lordaeron and now they are token npcs in form of inkeepers and flight masters. The only void elf that does something is Umbric.

Yeah but they're not gonna make more Sin'dorei model elves from now on. The high elf as they are right now, would look too much like the current blood elf, and on top of that. I want them as much as the next time, but I realistically cannot see it happen anymore due to the void elves.

They also specifically said they do not wish to add the high elf to the alliance because it's essentially almost nothing that differentiates them from the blood elves.

[Doffen]

Theramore was a primarily Human city with a few High Elves who were likely killed in the bombing? Why do you give me an answer that just proves me right?

Ah, so the High Elves there were not as important as Humans, gotcha. So they don't know how all that feels like.

No, but it does have to involve a narrative of some description. High Elves have never carried their own story.

Yeah, if you ignore MoP and Legion, sure. No race have ever carried their own story, except the Humans on the Alliance side then.

Is a Void Elf and is on a separate path.

Still a High Elf. But yeah, if they go down that way, that would be nice, so the focus is on the Void Elves instead. Would be nice for a change.

Ridiculous counterpoints just show how shallow your argument is. We are not arguing about an NPC group who serve a narrative need at a particular moment in time. You are trying to prove that a minor group within the Alliance is worthy of being made playable and failing to do so. Remember, the pro High Elf notion that the Alliance High Elves are a big and important part of the narrative is entirely a construct of the pro High Elf community. A cursory examination of what you presume to be their major role seems to be about Veressa on almost every occasion.

I proved your points wrong, and their are shallow. Nothing surprising there, pathetic.

Remember, the anti High Elf notion that the Alliance High Elves do not play an important part of the narrative is entirely a construct of the anti High Elf community. See how stupid it sounds like?

I don't even care if the High Elves are playable, but I am not blind to see that the High Elves always plays their part, especially in MoP and Legion when they were important, very recent expansions.

[Obelisk Kai]

Ah, so the High Elves there were not as important as Humans, gotcha. So they don't know how all that feels like.

It means it wasn't a High Elf experience. It was an Alliance experience. The most prominent casualties of Theramore were from major Alliance races. But I can't think of one High Elf who died. We only assume some died because everyone knows there was a small High Elf population in Theramore.

In fact, if we look at the Wowpedia article on the attack https://wow.gamepedia.com/Attack_on_Theramore_Isle

You will see a section listing the characters and who died. I note a Gnome, a Night Elf, several Dwarves and a lot of Humans. You know who isn't listed? A single High Elf of importance. In fact the only thalassian elves on that page are Horde, one of whom actually facilitiated the success of the attack.

Yeah, if you ignore MoP and Legion, sure. No race have ever carried their own story, except the Humans on the Alliance side then.

In my response to Grytheltubs I go over both MOP and Legion content and demonstrate that the High Elves played a peripheral role in both events, particularly Suramar.

Still a High Elf. But yeah, if they go down that way, that would be nice, so the focus is on the Void Elves instead. Would be nice for a change.

Then by that logic you accept that playable Void Elves are a variant of High Elves but still High Elves of a sort and you have what you wished to have. Since you don't accept that, you have to accept that by consuming a fallen Naaru Alleria has become a Void Elf.

I mean you can't have it both ways.

Either becoming a Void Elf represents a break with being a High Elf, in which case Alleria is a Void Elf and not a High Elf...or being a Void Elf means you are just a variant of being a High Elf in which case the Alliance has High Elves.

I proved your points wrong, and their are shallow. Nothing surprising there, pathetic.

No that's the point, you haven't. When I declare a point wrong, I make an effort. I find sources. I go in game. I look. I check. I supply information. I back up what I say.
But simply ignoring the evidence presented and declaring you've won because I haven't gotten you to alter your flawed pre-conceptions misses the point. You will never be convinced. But I can demonstrate to a third party just how flawed your own reasoning is.

Remember, the anti High Elf notion that the Alliance High Elves do not play an important part of the narrative is entirely a construct of the anti High Elf community. See how stupid it sounds like?

Unfortunately, that is a statement of fact. Alliance High Elves do not play an important part in the game's narrative. A single High Elf, Veressa, plays a role equivalent to her stature as a medium level Alliance character, but a lot of that has to do with her relationships with higher tier characters...basically she gets screentime now because her sisters are Void Elf racial leader Alleria and Horde Warchief Sylvanas.

I don't even care if the High Elves are playable, but I am not blind to see that the High Elves always plays their part, especially in MoP and Legion when they were important, very recent expansions.

Yes all four High Elves accompanying Veressa to the gates of Suramar surely had Elisande quaking in her boots. Massive boost to the Alliance of course.

[Syegfryed]

"Rexxar more story than the whole High Elves in the existence" LUL

still waiting for you to show they ""tons of lore and story development" and not just "here! they should up here!11!"

Okay, which race then?

Drenei, night elf, dwarves, worgens, etc

This is false, and you know it.

still waiting to you to proof that

[Deleted]

I mean with void elves what are chances to EVER bring high elves to Alliance? Better ask for more customization options that could resemble High elves rather than same skeleton same animations elves

[Doffen]

It means it wasn't a High Elf experience. It was an Alliance experience. The most prominent casualties of Theramore were from major Alliance races. But I can't think of one High Elf who died. We only assume some died because everyone knows there was a small High Elf population in Theramore.

So no race got any story then, because everything is an Alliance experience. That's a weird statement.

In fact, if we look at the Wowpedia article on the attack https://wow.gamepedia.com/Attack_on_Theramore_Isle

You will see a section listing the characters and who died. I note a Gnome, a Night Elf, several Dwarves and a lot of Humans. You know who isn't listed? A single High Elf of importance. In fact the only thalassian elves on that page are Horde, one of whom actually facilitiated the success of the attack.

Same page says there live High Elves in Theramore. Or well, not anymore.

In my response to Grytheltubs I go over both MOP and Legion content and demonstrate that the High Elves played a peripheral role in both events, particularly Suramar.

But you are then saying that no race actually play a role, because everything is in support of the Alliance. What a weird way to see the story. Or something you do as cover because you don't want to give credit to people who bring those reasons up? Don't answer, we all know what it is.

Then by that logic you accept that playable Void Elves are a variant of High Elves but still High Elves of a sort and you have what you wished to have. Since you don't accept that, you have to accept that by consuming a fallen Naaru Alleria has become a Void Elf.


Either becoming a Void Elf represents a break with being a High Elf, in which case Alleria is a Void Elf and not a High Elf...or being a Void Elf means you are just a variant of being a High Elf in which case the Alliance has High Elves.

I mean you can't have it both ways.

This is were you fail, miserably. Like I have said before, and you know this, so not sure why you tell me. I love Void Elves. I don't care if High Elves becomes playable. Everyone who disagrees with you doesn't automatically want High Elves. I responded to the hypothetical statement that they need to do this to be valuable to the story, which I responded with Alleria, because she was a High Elf when she left, and came back to a "new" Azeroth. Her statements and reactions towards Silvermoon just shows what her race is, High Elf. As Ion said, Void Elves are just another flavor of High Elves.

No that's the point, you haven't. When I declare a point wrong, I make an effort. I find sources. I go in game. I look. I check. I supply information. I back up what I say.
But simply ignoring the evidence presented and declaring you've won because I haven't gotten you to alter your flawed pre-conceptions misses the point. You will never be convinced. But I can demonstrate to a third party just how flawed your own reasoning is.

No, you came with some pretty bizarre versions on how a story should be, and it doesn't worth mentioning if the story isn't as spectacular as that. What evidence did you come up with? None. Just your versions on why High Elves doesn't matter in the story. It's your opinion. But now a third party can see how much you will spin just so it would fit your narrative.

Unfortunately, that is a statement of fact. Alliance High Elves do not play an important part in the game's narrative. A single High Elf, Veressa, plays a role equivalent to her stature as a medium level Alliance character, but a lot of that has to do with her relationships with higher tier characters...basically she gets screentime now because her sisters are Void Elf racial leader Alleria and Horde Warchief Sylvanas.

Yeah, nice with opionions. Don't come and say stuff is a fact just because you say so. I have come with several examples why High Elves have been a part of the Alliance story. Ignoring those doesn't help your agenda. Or it does for you apparently.

Yes all four High Elves accompanying Veressa to the gates of Suramar surely had Elisande quaking in her boots. Massive boost to the Alliance of course.

Yes, just the same when the brave Lady Liadrin came in and really shook a horror within Elisande. Massive boost to the Horde of course.

I guess you also think Half-Ogres got more story development than High Elves the last 10 years as well

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still waiting for you to show they ""tons of lore and story development" and not just "here! they should up here!11!"

I have done that, multiple times. Remember, this is vs Half-ogres. Don't go away from that absurd statement.

Drenei, night elf, dwarves, worgens, etc

High Elves got more than all those, except now Night Elves go passed them, because of the heavy attention they get atm.
Worgen: It's all Genn. And more Genn
Draeneis: In 11 years, Patch 7.3, then you have Warlords where they were stuntmen for the Iron Horde story.
Dwarves: Bronzebeard only. So much story development man.
Gnomes: Eh fuck that.

still waiting to you to proof that

Void Elves got ZERO development so far, while High Elves have gotten lots during the years. How can you even possible compare them? Alleria just showed up, Umbric is appearing in some of the Alliance War Campaign questlines. That's it.

But hey, at least Rexxar got way more story-development than all the elves together!!!111one

[Zulkhan]

so can i say then that sylvanas is around, she doesnt have a story? oops ignorance is deliberate isnt it

So is dishonesty. Comparing Sylvanas to the High Elves is like comparing Genn to the Gnomes.

[Syegfryed]

I have done that, multiple times

nop you didn't, you just said "mop, legion wtlk cata" nd this was already refuted caue they just show up as npc and get no shit of lore development

Remember, this is vs Half-ogres. Don't go away from that absurd statement.

Rexxar alone still is more relevant than high elves

High Elves got more than all those, except now Night Elves go passed them, because of the heavy attention they get atm.

thats totally a lie, show up as random npcs its not heavy attention

Worgen: It's all Genn. And more Genn

this is already more than high elves who have ?? veressa? the one who did shit? LUL

worgens had entire storyline in cata and beyond

Draeneis: In 11 years, Patch 7.3, then you have Warlords where they were stuntmen for the Iron Horde story.

still more than high elves who have nothing

Dwarves: Bronzebeard only. So much story development man.

what is the story development of high elves again? shows up as npc? Jebaited

And they have the wildhammer clan, moira, their dwarves, again, more story dvelopment

Gnomes: Eh fuck that.

mekkatorke already pass veressa and high elves

Void Elves got ZERO development so far

except they had, in their starting zone and with alleria and umbric, who is more than high elves and veressa

while High Elves have gotten lots during the years. How can you even possible compare them? Alleria just showed up, Umbric is appearing in some of the Alliance War Campaign questlines. That's it.

and that is already more

do you realize that show up in campaign questlines and do the talking, actively participating on the story is something and more relevant than showing up as mere npcs?

But hey, at least Rexxar got way more story-development than all the elves together!!!111one

still waiting the story development of high elves instead of showing up as npcs and doing nothing, stop dancing around and show or just call defeat

[Andromedes]

still waiting the story development of high elves instead of showing up as npcs and doing nothing, stop dancing around and show or just call defeat

Quel delar questline, purging of dalaran, insurrection of suramar

[Syegfryed]

Quel delar questline, purging of dalaran, insurrection of suramar

i give you quel'dalar, even if it is just to bump blood elf lore, and the weapons stay with liadrin

but the rest is not story development, its just showing up as npcs and not being relevant, sidekick of the humans of the kirin tor and the night elves

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In your opinion and that’s all this little fact is, Your opinion.

He has done more and more relevant stuff than high elves, it is fact

[Doffen]

snip

Wasn't only talking about the Silver Covenant, but High Elves as a whole. In TBC they are part of the Alliance Expedition, have their own town, with questhubs and also lives in Shattrath. In WotLK they started the Silver Covenant with Veressea Windrunner as leader, and was part of the Alliance Vanguard together with a presence as a race as their own in the Argent Tournament. Dalaran was the main city, so their presence was strong there as well.

In Cata there wasn't much, there was some co-op against the troll as far as I can remember. In MoP they were part of the story, big time. You had the whole incident with Jaina, then you had the whole 5.2 patch with Throne of Thunder were they were the main part of the story with Jaina and Kirin Tor. In Legion they were a part of the Suramar story, and then we have Alleria who brought us the Void Elves.

Sure, humans get lots of the story, but it's not before recently Night Elves got some story development, while the High Elves have been here the whole time within the story. Integrated within the human society, yes, but still more story development than the other Alliance-races, night elves included.

I did, lots of times. But sure thing, continue with your Rexxar got more development than the High Elves!!!1111LUL
Just that you say that Void Elves got more development shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Cien]

So is dishonesty. Comparing Sylvanas to the High Elves is like comparing Genn to the Gnomes.

its irrelevant what comparison i make, if something is written in game there is a story to go with it

[Obelisk Kai]

Fact in your fucking head... Grow the fuck up you only see him do more because you want to play as one of his kind so your bias shows in all your posts.

The same is true of you. There are pro High Elf posters arguing within the past twenty four hours of how the High Elves are an important, major Alliance race when it is easily demonstrable how peripheral they are.

You too, only see more because you want to play as one of them.

[Shaqthefat]

They were supporting troops for the Nightfallen, Khadgar, the class hall champion, sent on behalf of the Alliance. Elisande(blizz) definitely does not agree with that. They refer to the Quel'dorei as one entity. Three troops were there, Blood Elves, Night Elves and High Elves.



They are supporting troops, roles etc for the Alliance. Just like Night Elves, Gnomes, Worgen and so on. Only recently Night Elves have gotten attention. Dwarves? Little bit in Cataclysm, and always the Bronzebeards. And they should be the second highest ranked Alliance race in the regard of importance. Worgen is Genn Greymane. Gnomes? Not even close. Night Elves been under the bush until the attack on Teldrassil. Draeneis except Warlords, got one patch, 7.3, the last 10 years. High Elves got more contributions than all those.

The races of the alliance actually show up without their leaders. There are characters pf tips respective races that do things on their own without the need for their leader to show up. To say the high elves have contributed more to the alliance than the main races is actually delusional

[Doffen]

The races of the alliance actually show up without their leaders. There are characters pf tips respective races that do things on their own without the need for their leader to show up. To say the high elves have contributed more to the alliance than the main races is actually delusional

Yeah, there are High Elves that shows up without Vereesa. In fact, there are always High Elves represented. Even in Warfronts there are High Elves represented. Where is Vereesa? Being delusional is ignoring the story and whos taking part of it. Good thing you debunked your own argument.

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The same is true of you. There are pro High Elf posters arguing within the past twenty four hours of how the High Elves are an important, major Alliance race when it is easily demonstrable how peripheral they are.

You too, only see more because you want to play as one of them.

And you see less because you don't want them. Weird how this goes both ways isn't it.

[Obelisk Kai]

So no race got any story then, because everything is an Alliance experience. That's a weird statement.

Same page says there live High Elves in Theramore. Or well, not anymore.

That page was specifically about the attack on Theramore, so it stated there was a handful of High Elves who perished in the attack.

The statement is not weird in the context of your original response. You are the one who focused on the High Elves of Theramore, leaving aside that they were a miniscule minority of the city's population. Defining it as an Alliance experience seems appropriate, as members of all Alliance races perished, but if you want to be specific then it was a Human experience as the vast majority of the casualties were Humans. However I guess it's another reflection of how Alliance is really a synonym for Human these days.

But you are then saying that no race actually play a role, because everything is in support of the Alliance. What a weird way to see the story. Or something you do as cover because you don't want to give credit to people who bring those reasons up? Don't answer, we all know what it is.

Specifically in MOP, the Silver Covenant acted in the service of the Alliance aligned Kirin Tor where as the Blood Elves acted in their own capacity. In regards to Legion, the Horde army consisted of Blood Elves whereas the Alliance army was led by and consisted primarily of Night Elves. The High Elf role in the siege of Suramar was extremely minor. Not only are there only a handful of High Elf Npcs outside the city with Veressa (I think it's two if you don't count Veressa), but in the cinematic itself showing Horde and Alliance forces filling the bridge, there were four High Elves accompanying Veressa whereas the rest of the Alliance contingent was Night Elven. I flew into Suramar on my Alliance character. In the area surrounding where the Horde and Alliance breached the city, NPCs still fight. I saw Nightborne insurgents fighting. I saw Blood Elves fighting. I saw Night Elves fighting.

Maybe I have missed it, but I see no High Elves fighting. Their only presence is the small group accompanying Veressa in the cinematic.


Their role on the isle of thunder was more substantial, but they still shared the spotlight with the Kirin Tor who was actually in charge. And as I explore Suramar, whom do I note is present? Kirin Tor Peacekeepers and Khadgar. It was at this moment I realised the Silver Covenant wasn't here because the Alliance asked them to come. They likely accompanied the Kirin Tor and Khadgar.

This is were you fail, miserably. Like I have said before, and you know this, so not sure why you tell me. I love Void Elves. I don't care if High Elves becomes playable. Everyone who disagrees with you doesn't automatically want High Elves. I responded to the hypothetical statement that they need to do this to be valuable to the story, which I responded with Alleria, because she was a High Elf when she left, and came back to a "new" Azeroth. Her statements and reactions towards Silvermoon just shows what her race is, High Elf. As Ion said, Void Elves are just another flavor of High Elves.

Which is true and which I have never denied. But another flavour is the not same, it implies variance. Blood/High Elves ARE vanilla, Void Elves are blueberry.

No, you came with some pretty bizarre versions on how a story should be, and it doesn't worth mentioning if the story isn't as spectacular as that. What evidence did you come up with? None. Just your versions on why High Elves doesn't matter in the story. It's your opinion. But now a third party can see how much you will spin just so it would fit your narrative.

I have offered substantial evidence supporting my point of view over the course of this debate. During the course of this debate, those opposed to playable High Elves have faced a group hell bent on twisting the lore to suit them if they feel it advances their cause, or denying it altogether if they cannot twist. At the same time, they profess to have superior knowledge, superior understanding and superior respect for the lore than anyone arguing against them, as if anyone had the same level of knowledge or respect for the lore as they did, those individuals would agree with them. I have found the hypocrisy embodied by the hardcore pro High Elf community to be quite something. For example, as evidence showing the High Elves were peripheral in Suramar, I travelled there. I looked around. I rewatched the cinematic. I counted the number of High Elves. The only thing that actually involved the High Elves was that Elisande mentioned them, and let's not forget her commentary heavily implied that they are breeding with Humans and sullying their blood line.

Yeah, nice with opionions. Don't come and say stuff is a fact just because you say so. I have come with several examples why High Elves have been a part of the Alliance story. Ignoring those doesn't help your agenda. Or it does for you apparently.

You have come up with examples. I have dismantled those examples and shown why you are incorrect. Your response is to stamp your feet and call the facts I presented against your case opinions. Your examples were little more than events loaded with your own bias. Tell me, does the presence of three or four seventh legion High Elf shield mages on board an airship constitute in your head a major High Elf presence in BFA? Or maybe the High Elf in Boralus who does the portals?

Yes, just the same when the brave Lady Liadrin came in and really shook a horror within Elisande. Massive boost to the Horde of course.

The Blood Elves are a playable Horde race and do not require boost. Lady Liadrin also brought a substantial Blood Elf army, which probably concerned Elisande more. I am not sure how drawing attention to Lady Liadrin and the actual, substantial Blood Elf army bolsters your case when the High Elves brought four Mages.

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And you see less because you don't want them. Weird how this goes both ways isn't it.

Not really. I am actually counting High Elves as I go. There really are not that many about. Just as Blizzard says there aren't. And when they do gather in numbers, it's always to do with Dalaran, just where Blizzard says most of the remainder live.

[Shaqthefat]

Yeah, there are High Elves that shows up without Vereesa. In fact, there are always High Elves represented. Even in Warfronts there are High Elves represented. Where is Vereesa? Being delusional is ignoring the story and whos taking part of it. Good thing you debunked your own argument.

I'm not the one who thinks the alliance should get two blood elf races despite being a horde race. I'm not the one who refuses to believe blizzard when they say that high elves will never been an allied race. That is delusion and denial.

As for high elves showing up in the warfront. Of course you would send your cannon fodder race to die, you wouldn't want a race that actually helps the alliance to die at mass against the horde.