I didn't play WoW for years since Firelands Cata, still always followed the MMO-C front page to read the updates to the game, though not as frequently as when I was actually playing the game.
What drove me to come back were DHs being announced for Legion xpac, through a friend who also wasn't playing the game at the time. That piqued my interest enough to come back for legion pre-patch, play all through legion, start up a Paladin mid-way, play throughout rest of Legion into bfa pre-patch into bfa today.
The point? Just because people aren't currently playing WoW doesn't mean Blizzard cannot or doesn't make the game towards enticing those players back.
Specifically since this thread is about High Elves as an Allied Race and Allied Races as a feature have been said by Blizzard to be something for players to do when there's lulls in content. It also wouldn't be stupid to say that Allied Races are meant to entice former players to return to playing WoW as well. Actually it would be considered extremely stupid to not realize that it's to entice players to stay subbed or re-subbed.
No, you were the one who brought up that a race need a story like that. I just gave an example. When you come with something this silly, and someone, like me, says against it and even come up with an example, that's actually your original response, not mine. So you have to explain to me why you brought that up.
The Silver Covenant was pretty much the people that took action in Dalaran, so saying they were support is diffuse at best. The story in Isle of Thunder were strongly influenced by the High Elves. Again, it doesn't matter who sent them. They fight for the Alliance. They were introduced in Suramar as their own thing. If they were with Khadgar or someone else doesn't matter at the slightest, I believe they were there in request of both Khadgar and the Alliance, just as much as the Blood Elves were there on request from the Horde. When the High Elves were present in Suramar, they was there as something own their own. But you and me are just speculating at this point. The thing is that they were there.Specifically in MOP, the Silver Covenant acted in the service of the Alliance aligned Kirin Tor where as the Blood Elves acted in their own capacity. In regards to Legion, the Horde army consisted of Blood Elves whereas the Alliance army was led by and consisted primarily of Night Elves. The High Elf role in the siege of Suramar was extremely minor. Not only are there only a handful of High Elf Npcs outside the city with Veressa (I think it's two if you don't count Veressa), but in the cinematic itself showing Horde and Alliance forces filling the bridge, there were four High Elves accompanying Veressa whereas the rest of the Alliance contingent was Night Elven. I flew into Suramar on my Alliance character. In the area surrounding where the Horde and Alliance breached the city, NPCs still fight. I saw Nightborne insurgents fighting. I saw Blood Elves fighting. I saw Night Elves fighting.
Maybe I have missed it, but I see no High Elves fighting. Their only presence is the small group accompanying Veressa in the cinematic.
Their role on the isle of thunder was more substantial, but they still shared the spotlight with the Kirin Tor who was actually in charge. And as I explore Suramar, whom do I note is present? Kirin Tor Peacekeepers and Khadgar. It was at this moment I realised the Silver Covenant wasn't here because the Alliance asked them to come. They likely accompanied the Kirin Tor and Khadgar.
Got nothing to do with what I wrote.Which is true and which I have never denied. But another flavour is the not same, it implies variance. Blood/High Elves ARE vanilla, Void Elves are blueberry.
I think they would say the same thing about you, and reading this whole thread, you are not better, at all. Everything you listed, you do as well. But not surprised by the hypocrisy in this statement. Seems to be a trend on forums.I have offered substantial evidence supporting my point of view over the course of this debate. During the course of this debate, those opposed to playable High Elves have faced a group hell bent on twisting the lore to suit them if they feel it advances their cause, or denying it altogether if they cannot twist. At the same time, they profess to have superior knowledge, superior understanding and superior respect for the lore than anyone arguing against them, as if anyone had the same level of knowledge or respect for the lore as they did, those individuals would agree with them. I have found the hypocrisy embodied by the hardcore pro High Elf community to be quite something. For example, as evidence showing the High Elves were peripheral in Suramar, I travelled there. I looked around. I rewatched the cinematic. I counted the number of High Elves. The only thing that actually involved the High Elves was that Elisande mentioned them, and let's not forget her commentary heavily implied that they are breeding with Humans and sullying their blood line.
Thing is, I got no bias in this. You do certainly. When I read this I was actually just going to ignore the post and live on. So sad to see you go with the bias-option when you start to lose it. And it's so sad to see you trying to make a fool out of me with trying to come with these examples, when I haven't said anything about few npcs. I have brought examples, but you choose to ignore them. But sure, go on and spin.You have come up with examples. I have dismantled those examples and shown why you are incorrect. Your response is to stamp your feet and call the facts I presented against your case opinions. Your examples were little more than events loaded with your own bias. Tell me, does the presence of three or four seventh legion High Elf shield mages on board an airship constitute in your head a major High Elf presence in BFA? Or maybe the High Elf in Boralus who does the portals?
What case? You were trying to make a fool out of High Elves, I did the same with Blood Elves. I guess it hit you in a soft spot. And this coming from someone who got three Blood Elves I play a lot(or well, two at 110 from Legion still)The Blood Elves are a playable Horde race and do not require boost. Lady Liadrin also brought a substantial Blood Elf army, which probably concerned Elisande more. I am not sure how drawing attention to Lady Liadrin and the actual, substantial Blood Elf army bolsters your case when the High Elves brought four Mages.
Yeah, maybe they should stop using them then. They have been so few, but still been part of the Alliance, and brought in flavor to the Alliance-story for so many years.Not really. I am actually counting High Elves as I go. There really are not that many about. Just as Blizzard says there aren't. And when they do gather in numbers, it's always to do with Dalaran, just where Blizzard says most of the remainder live.
https://www.youtube.com/@DoffenGG
World of Warcraft stuff
It's delusional to think that I want them as an Allied Race hahaI got Void Elves(High Elves) and Blood Elves(also High Elves), which I love playing. We don't need another elven race, we need Drogbar(which is my wet dream)
Yeah, because the High Elves haven't helped the Alliance at all the last 10 yearsAs for high elves showing up in the warfront. Of course you would send your cannon fodder race to die, you wouldn't want a race that actually helps the alliance to die at mass against the horde.![]()
https://www.youtube.com/@DoffenGG
World of Warcraft stuff
When I was bored at work and decided at last to peruse the High Elf discord, you were notable by the frequency of your posts there.
You also still post in this forum.
There was a moderator here, maybe there still is, who had a tag message saying something along the lines of how Warcraft is a weird game, given the hold it has on people who no longer play it and how they keep talking about it. If you no longer play the game, then you shouldn't care and shouldn't bother posting.
As you do post, then you do care, and saying 'oh i quit' is a silly defense and a paper shield from criticism. Own your points of view please.
It is also just straight up stupid for anyone to take the in-game representation of NPCs as the literal number that is used in "reality".
Stormwind has maybe what 200-300 npcs? Yet it's actually a gigantic city. I mean how else can they keep sending so many thousands of troops littered all around the world? The fact Obelisk keeps mentioning four High Elves at Suramar or a few NPCs here and there as the literal numbers is beyond any actual logic he purports to be using. Then turns around and says the 10-30 Blood Elves with Liadrin is an army. Really dumb and idiotic statements by someone who desperately and truly wishes High Elves were not among the Alliance.
Which is why I'm on ignore by him, he can't really handle the truth, he may eventually do the same with you.
High Elves aren't happening as long as Ion is in control, his guidance will prevent it ... unless BFA starts losing a ton and then they'll give them as an emergency button.
Or if they don't have any other race ready to put as an Allied Race.
This entire topic could have been avoided by giving Void elves more natural skin tones and making it high elves rather than blood elves become void elves.
Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
–The Sith Code
Yeah, it doesn't really add up. It's not people's fault for blizzard using the High Elves as much as they have done. I haven't seen much in BfA so far, a bit in the campaign, Warfronts and Island Expedition(lol) it could be a change in how they will use them in the future, and maybe Void Elves will take over mostly. But the history doesn't lie, even if few in numbers, they have done quite significant work for the Alliance and been a part of the story.
But hey the Blood Elves really showed them with that 20-men big army :P
https://www.youtube.com/@DoffenGG
World of Warcraft stuff
As my raid is about to start I don't have time to respond to your earlier post but I can respond to this one.
For the record the reason I have Flubber on ignore is his disconnect from reality. This is the guy who argued with all sincerity that Ion ruling them out after Blizzcon was actually part of a secret strategy to introduce them later on. There are enough pro High Elfers active on this thread to debate. Also he overuses emojis unironically, the visual equivalent of scratching a blackboard. If he was labouring under the misapprehension that he was too 'real' for me to handle, I can disabuse him of that. There are other pro High Elfers better at arguing than him, whom I have not ignored. There are pro High Elfers vastly ruder than him, whom I have not ignored. I simply find him irritating and not worth the time and him alone.
To your point.
That they have been a small presence within the Alliance is undeniable. This is continually reflected in game, as has been seen, in several expansions. But this does not translate into them being a major presence, which is the core of my objection.
I have no problem acknowledging the High Elf role within the Alliance, but this needs the reciprocal recognition that they are not a major Alliance race. That the role they played was always in conjunction with someone else. And that every truly major Alliance has a far greater presence than the Alliance High Elves and that this includes the usual punching bag on this topic, the Gnomes, who are in fact widely spread and frequently encountered in Alliance questing.
It's time to stop. It's time to stop ok? No more.
Yet you can't resist moving from cheerful talking about the shared interest of Warcraft in the discord to doing battle against the wicked anti High Elf haters on MMO Champion.
Why post in this particular thread if you didn't care anymore?
Why challenge anti High Elfers if you didn't care anymore?
Why do you open yourself to debate if you then scream about getting a response that isn't pure, unadulterated support for your point of view which you seem to have issues with?
Why, ultimately, are you here?
I wonder how much shorter this thread would be if it was more discussing High Elves and less tossing insults at one another... x_x
Lay off the insults and drop the personal shit please. This thread is bad enough without the silly user grudges and discord drama. A difference of opinion about elves on the internet shouldn't create an environment this toxic.
I've never seen you sum up your point like that. Do you truly believe that High Elves have had less impact/frequency than the non-Human races? I could see you making a case for Night Elves (and Worgen if you consider the entire race "just Genn" for the sake of the metric), but Dwarves, Gnomes, Draenei? I can think of an Alliance-based example of the High Elves showing up for almost every expansion -- I can't do the same for any of the listed three. Mekgineer has made three appearances story-wise of the top of my head, one of them only in a cinematic, and the other exclusively as the leader of the Gnomes, the last being in the most recent raid where he gets "killed" for an indeterminate amount of time. The Draenei showed up for BC, a separate group of Draenei showed up for WoD, and then the Lightforged if you really want to squeeze them in there showed up for the Alliance starting in BFA. I can't think of a time the Dwarves were brought anywhere.
Meanwhile, the High Elves appeared in or alongside a major Alliance force in BC, WotLK, Pandaria, Legion, and BFA -- in quest content for all of those -- not just "here's a cinematic where they pulled out a gun and killed a felguard" kind of appearance that Mekgineer or "the gnomes" make. The Worgen literally make one appearance in the entire game outside of Genn off the top of my head, and that was in Felwood. Even in BFA, all the Gilneans we see have yet to go Worgen form or exist outside of cinematics, though for racial count purposes you could say that counts if you'd like.
Even if I'm forgetting/unknowning of a few instances for each race (I never did the Alliance Wrathgate scenario, and I know Vol'jin showed up for the Horde side version, as an example), at the very minimum, the High Elves have appeared as much (and within a similar context) as the decidedly "less important" Alliance races. If that was truly your core negative towards them being made playable, I could not imagine you'd be the famously anti-High Elf character you are today.
Double Edit: I am in both the twitter circles and the discord circles and I understand that you're watched like a hawk by the HE community, so if you want to take this to PMs to avoid the drama Zaelsino stated above, I would happily. I have never once seen you as reasonable as you were in this comment, so if there's any chance I could change the opinion of the posterboy of the anti-High Elf community, I would love to. Don't want the "public eye" to make me miss that opportunity. If you'd prefer, we could discord as well, as I think that's a bit more personal.
Last edited by ninthbelief; 2018-10-07 at 06:54 PM.
Understood.
I apologize if something I have said has hurt anybody's feelings.
You are correct that in the grand scheme of things, this is small potatoes.
I will continue to defend and promote the anti High Elf position however, which itself is attacked as misanthropic attempt to stop people being happy.
To restate for clarity, the Anti High Elf position is not aimed at making the pro High Elf community miserable by denying them the chance to play High Elves. The Anti High Elf position is based on the belief that High Elves are already playable as Blood Elves, that Blood Elves are the de facto High Elves of the Warcraft universe and that Void Elves are a compromise allowing Alliance players access to a High Elf variant. The desire to prevent playable High Elves is based on a desire to preserve the integrity of the Horde faction as the only place you can play an authentic High Elf, something every other race in the game is allowed with the exception of Pandaren (deliberately so) and to preserve the integrity of the Blood Elves, who would become monsters if Alliance High Elves were playable and allowed to define themselves as the true High Elves.
I believe that covers our beliefs?
the worgen have plenty of npcs around the world (after the cata update) but their 'major' outposts are in felwood, duskwood and blasted lands. that is for alliance side of course, horde can see many worgen in their silverpine/gilneas/hillsbrad questline. then in stormheim there are enough worgen too. crowley and his daughter make an appereance after so long (crowley is also a warrior follower for alliance), they got a base even, Greyguard, and you can see gilneans all over the broken isles (the pvp towers for wqs). stormwind was nowhere to be seen in legion. the alliance's major force was gilneas. even the dalaran alliance side was renamed to greyfang enclave.
so i disagree. gilneas gets a ton of attention, but of course genn is the character that gets the most screentime because its the bloody king of the race.