Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

I think there are antagonic forces inside Blizzard, just like in this thread.

There are people like Ion that pray every day that the playerbase forgets about the Alliance High Elves. They clearly don't want them playable.

And there are other developers that place Silver Coventant NPCs everywhere they can, so the playerbase keeps being reminded that they haven't been forgotten, because these developers also want them to be playable, and hope Ion doesn't / won't notice their subtile alliance high elf additions to the game

i guess that is what happened in the script of the Blood Elf heritage chain... hopefully Ion won't notice that as well and won't change it before it comes live

I feel like there's an even simpler reason for why things are the way they are. A forum goer asked: "Do the blizzard employees debate about the High elf/Blood elf race definition, especially when all those repeated threads pop up?"

Ythisens answer: "Ever since we found out Allied Races were a confirmed thing we've talked about the idea of who/what could be an allied race all the time. It's a never ending conversation now because of the possibilities it opens up as playable races. We actually love the large discussions it's popped up among you guys. I mean megathreads that are spanning tens of thousands of posts total across all of the capped threads? That's just cool. No other feature in WoW as an idea has had that much engagement."

Simply put, they enjoy these types of Allied Race discussions popping up, because engagement = more people attached to the game = more money in the end honestly.

The fact that nothing is as hotly debated as Allied Races, and in particular the High Elf/Blood Elf discussion is something Blizzard enjoys seeing precisely because both sides of the camp are able to formulate arguments for their side and shows a crazy amount of engagement around this topic compared to say people talking about Ogres or even Night Elf Worgen or Centaur/Grovekeeper like Allied Races. The only other discussion having next to as much engagement is the San'layn/Darkfallen threads, another ELF type thread.

It's clear to see where the interest lies and I don't doubt with the amount of audience that WoW has that these similar topics happen internally at Blizzard.

I also don't doubt there is a divide internally among Blizzard who wishes for High Elves on Alliance and those who don't. I mean we can see this in the follow up question to the above: "To piggyback on that, what player/forum debates are most mirrored among Blizzard staff?"

Ythisens answer: "Lore, Allied Races, class design, best expansion, best raid. Other than some of the language of course it's very similar as far as broad topics. We discuss them a little differently but I giggle sometimes when I see people debating about something I read on the forums earlier that day."

Basically they debate about pretty much the similar things players debate about.

I also didn't doubt that High Elves wouldn't come out so soon after Void Elves, so answering the question of "the near term" was easy for Ion since no way in hell would they release a 2nd elf race so quickly on the heel of one just released.

[Deleted]

Why can't you understand that all that could have been done, has been done without, reasonably, upsetting the other faction, cause you know, as few fucks as you might give, it's still a player faction.

The "compromise" you keep bringing up has occurred under the form of the VOID ELVES. That was it. The High Elf ship has sailed once the Velfs have arrived. And people seem to like them or otherwise they wouldn't have reached the numbers they have, being among the highest in the Alliance.

At this point it's forcing the note and while people were ok with trading models for somewhat original new races, having a race CLONED just cause some antsy, vocal people on these forums cried for a really long time, might upset others, not just because they are cloning a really popular race in the Horde, but because it enforces the idea that crying hard yields results and I'd rather not see an example of that ESPECIALLY over something as trivial as the belf model with light skin - and before you give me the BS about "WANTING HELFS A LOT", I honestly couldn't care less, because you have a light skin option in the Horde and you have the model available as Alliance.

What about the fact that I don't care about Void Elves and your concerns that you have listed, really?

[FlubberPuddy]

What about the fact that I don't care about Void Elves and your concerns that you have listed, really?

"Hey guys, be happy with this thing that isn't the thing you wanted! And stop asking for the thing you actually want just because you didn't get it! Jeez"

That's how those posts come across to me. It also ignores the topics previously where Blizzard denied things only for players to continue requesting it and eventually made its way into the game.

[Evilfish]

What about the fact that I don't care about Void Elves and your concerns that you have listed, really?

It's not really about how much you care apparently and it's more about justification which waved bye-bye to Helfs when Velfs were added. So no, there's no hope for Helfs no matter how much you care.

[FlubberPuddy]

Just reposting Ercarp's gallery of his high elven concepts, because these are just too good. https://imgur.com/a/QqsR8Hj

Holy snapss, I never saw that Priest one before.



And my favorite one:



Blood Elves will never reach this level of tattoos/feathers for their appearances.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not really about how much you care apparently and it's more about justification which waved bye-bye to Helfs when Velfs were added. So no, there's no hope for Helfs no matter how much you care.

I'd say it's equally futile to attempt to stop people from talking about it. People will continue to request till WoW isn't a thing anymore I bet. High Elves still continue to be the most requested playable race, despite the existence of Void Elves. They haven't lost their standing.

Whether it actually comes to fruition is another case entirely.

[Evilfish]

Oh I don't think they are the most requested. I think people get that idea cause there's been a long cry about it and because the helf "community" (a few people actually) make a lot of noise.

[Andromedes]

This comment is somewhat nonsensical as it ignores the lore difference between Mag'har and ordinary Orcs, namely that the playable Orcs are corrupted by having drunk the demon's blood, and Mag'har Orcs are uncorrupted Orcs from an alternate timeline.
The lore rationale is that the Clan based structure of Orc society has heavily atrophied on Azeroth, due to being a part of a Horde designed to overcome those boundaries and in the concentration camps.
The Mag'har, who never went through that experience, have a much stronger clan structure which is why anyone who really wants to play a Blackrock Orc would be better served going Mag'har Orc than Green Orc. The tattoos and such are representative of that.

I get that now, fel corruption removes your tattoos and changes your hairstyle. In fact, even Kilrogg gained one more decorative skull on his beard.

We know what High Elves are and we know what their identity is. It is represented by the Blood Elves, the true (and confirmed) High Elves of Warcraft. The Alliance High Elves, who name Veressa a Ranger-General of their Farstrider copycat organization, who still undertake Sunwell pilgrimages, who still title their Mages 'Magister' show no signs of creating a new culture anyway. It's a pro High Elven attempt at differentiation that is doomed to failure. Particularly when the Alliance High Elves do show signs of cultural deviation, it is not in creating something unique but in aping their human hosts. Which is what Elisande told them if I recall.

I dont recall dark iron dwarves having flaming hair and beards, i dont recall Kul Tirans being half giants.. Why do they look like that? It wasnt represented ingame until BfA. Why sudden change?

[FlubberPuddy]

I get that now, fel corruption removes your tattoos and changes your hairstyle. In fact, even Kilrogg gained one more decorative skull on his beard.

Which also means Blood Elves won't get tattoos that they say should be theirs then since they have some fel corruption in em too

[RangerDaz]

Just reposting Ercarp's gallery of his high elven concepts, because these are just too good. https://imgur.com/a/QqsR8Hj

They are amazing!!

[Obelisk Kai]

I get that now, fel corruption removes your tattoos and changes your hairstyle. In fact, even Kilrogg gained one more decorative skull on his beard.

Did you miss the part where I mentioned they were driven into a collectivizing Horde that minimized those differences and then they were imprisoned for the better part of two decades in Concentration Camps? A lot of the diversity of the Orcs was 'sanded down' by these experiences, with clan becoming increasingly vestigial because Orcs no longer tattoo themselves or maintain many of the rituals we know were associated with each clan. They even lost contact with the elements and had to relearn shamanism. The Frostwolves and the Warsong alone maintained some vestige of what they had lost.

The Mag'har Orcs Iron Horde did not do this, it was a collective where each clan had it's own Warlord and it's own defined territory with Grom as the Warchief. It was not a puppet for the Shadow Council or the Legion. The Mag'har therefore did not go through the process that broke down old Orc civilization.

To compare the utterly different trajectories the Mag'har Orcs and the normal Orcs have travelled in an attempt to draw yet another false equivalence between High Elves and Blood Elves is disingenuous. No amount of words or concept art can change the fact that the Alliance High Elves and the Blood Elves are divided solely by politics. High Elves wouldn't even qualify as an Allied Race if the Horde was asking for them, they are identical to Blood Elves. As an Allied race for the Alliance they are an impossible leap.

I dont recall dark iron dwarves having flaming hair and beards, i dont recall Kul Tirans being half giants.. Why do they look like that? It wasnt represented ingame until BfA. Why sudden change?

Dark Iron Dwarves always had different skin tones and always had a different vibe to ordinary Dwarves, a steampunk vibe. They have been enhanced upon being made playable, not reinvented. And the half Giant Kul Tirans were not seen in Durotar because they hadn't been invented yet.

High Elves on the other hand are a known quantity. We have seen them. They are around, now. Both in that they are Blood Elves, confirmed by Blizzard and among the Alliance subset who live primarily in Dalaran. Both groups are clearly identical, divided by politics, and that is the point of the Alliance High Elf story. They cannot be reinvented as we know what a High Elf is.

[Andromedes]

Dark Iron Dwarves always had different skin tones and always had a different vibe to ordinary Dwarves, a steampunk vibe. They have been enhanced upon being made playable, not reinvented. And the half Giant Kul Tirans were not seen in Durotar because they hadn't been invented yet.

Nice dodge of my question. W H Y S U D D E N C H A N G E?
Also i dont get why you lecture me with lore, when i simply ask, why fel corrupted orc has different hair.

As i see it. Obelisk Kai is fine with every appearance retcon, unless it is for High elves. White shattered hand orc? Fine. Half giant kul tirans? Fine. Glowing hair and beard on Dark irons? Fine. Braided hair with feathers on High elves? GTFO

[Deleted]

It's not really about how much you care apparently and it's more about justification which waved bye-bye to Helfs when Velfs were added. So no, there's no hope for Helfs no matter how much you care.

It is about how much I care about these things because whether I ask for High Elves now or not depends entirely on that.

[Evilfish]

Nice dodge of my question. W H Y S U D D E N C H A N G E?
Also i dont get why you lecture me with lore, when i simply ask, why fel corrupted orc has different hair.

As i see it. Obelisk Kai is fine with every appearance retcon, unless it is for High elves. White shattered hand orc? Fine. Half giant kul tirans? Fine. Glowing hair and beard on Dark irons? Fine. Braided hair with feathers on High elves? GTFO

I think you should get past the appearance cause it's not about that. Sure they could give Helfs longer ears or slimmer arms, but in the end, it's still belfs with different political ideologies. But hey, if you did get past the appearance you wouldn't be posting here, would you? You'd be playing your Velf in sweet silence.

[FlubberPuddy]

You'd be playing your Velf in sweet silence.

Not so, no one who wanted Alliance loyal High Elves was looking to play Silvermoon Exiled Blood Elves. Which arguably is 95% of High Elf fans I'd bet.

[Deleted]

Nice dodge of my question. W H Y S U D D E N C H A N G E?
Also i dont get why you lecture me with lore, when i simply ask, why fel corrupted orc has different hair.

As i see it. Obelisk Kai is fine with every appearance retcon, unless it is for High elves. White shattered hand orc? Fine. Half giant kul tirans? Fine. Glowing hair and beard on Dark irons? Fine. Braided hair with feathers on High elves? GTFO

As I've said before, Obelisk Kai doesn't argue in a genuine way, he simply generates arguments against High Elves and posts them, regardless if he believes in them himself or not.

[Obelisk Kai]

Nice dodge of my question. W H Y S U D D E N C H A N G E?
Also i dont get why you lecture me with lore, when i simply ask, why fel corrupted orc has different hair.

As i see it. Obelisk Kai is fine with every appearance retcon, unless it is for High elves. White shattered hand orc? Fine. Half giant kul tirans? Fine. Glowing hair and beard on Dark irons? Fine. Braided hair with feathers on High elves? GTFO

What you want is an admission that because they dolled up Dark Iron Dwarves or invented Kul Tirans, they could do the same for High Elves.

You are not going to get that.

White Shattered Hand Orcs became green Orcs in our timeline, but not in the AU Draenor playable ones come from.

Dark Iron Dwarves were separated from other Dwarf clans centuries ago, lived under a mountain, were enslaved by Fire elementals developed their own steampunk vibe and when made playable received some extra customization options.

Kul Tirans were pretty much isolated on their own continent, we have only met a small garrison in Durotar and when we meet them in their home it turns out a few are much bigger than normal.

All of the above have perfectly rational explanations for the differences. Often accompanied by a traumatic event that induced physical changes or centuries or millenia of separation or sometimes both.

But you want to believe that a tiny group that has been separate for a mere ten years and whose only difference from the main group is their political opinion is worthy of a similar level of treatment? That's on you.

I use the lore because it is the in game explanation.

You want the out of game explanation? Blood Elves are High Elves, Blizzard took a look, determined High Elves would be as redundant as another option for green Orcs and created a Void Elf substitute that just happens to have been the most successful Allied Race by a country mile, validating their choice.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

So are we going to pretend that the Alliance didn't betray the High Elves in their hour of need?

When people show you who they really are...

believe them!

[Andromedes]

So are we going to pretend that the Alliance didn't betray the High Elves in their hour of need?

Source on that?

Dark Iron Dwarves were separated from other Dwarf clans centuries ago, lived under a mountain, were enslaved by Fire elementals developed their own steampunk vibe and when made playable received some extra customization options.

Thank you, that is all i wanted to hear.

[Obelisk Kai]

Thank you, that is all i wanted to hear.

I noticed you removed all the context from my answer and literally highlighted a single snippet, taken out of context, as some kind of admission.

It is nothing of the sort. If you want to be so selective about the commentary you accept and use it as some kind of validation, that is on you. But it seems a lot of pro High Elfers tend to do this and then play the martyr when, yet again, High Elves for the Alliance are not coming.

This happened when they got an occasional blue post extended a forum cap, or Muffinus made a joke, or a Blizzard employee in a private capacity supported High Elves. Can't see the forest for the one tree you happen to like.

The Dark Iron Dwarves whom my answer there was about received extra customization in line with a culture established via the lore. The flaming beards for example reflect their association with Fire elementals.

They are SPECIFICALLY not analogous to High Elves.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Source on that?



Thank you, that is all i wanted to hear.

Source: WC3