Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Evilfish]

Question, what was the context in which I made this response? Really if you are just going to take out of context what I am saying do YOU want to have a discussion?

And yeah, claiming that "we" believe we deserve High Elves just shows how little you actually seem to understand about the conversation, how little you are actually responding to my stances and just taking my previous answer, to someone else, out of context, just to spout your general anti High Elf rhetoric.

Be my guest if you want to address one of my specific points, but if you are just going to decontextualize and stawman me, you really don't need me for that.

See this is I keep telling you to get over yourselves.

The guy you responded to was spot on. You are trying to reinvent the wheel here by trying to place a figurative tape over the theme and visual differences that exist between most races in every faction and how Blizzard views that element, which was shown to you and outright told to your faces by the developers. You continue to pretend like everyone is wrong, including Blizzard and you are the only ones who are right. I'm not the first who tries to tell you that it does not work like that and I won't be the last. That's why I keep telling you to get over yourselves.

And by the way, considering your behavior concerning posts that disagree with you, it kinda shows you have no interest in a discussion short of total agreement.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

See this is I keep telling you to get over yourselves.

The guy you responded to was spot on. You are trying to reinvent the wheel here by trying to place a figurative tape over the theme and visual differences that exist between most races in every faction and how Blizzard views that element, which was shown to you and outright told to your faces by the developers. You continue to pretend like everyone is wrong, including Blizzard and you are the only ones who are right. I'm not the first who tries to tell you that it does not work like that and I won't be the last. That's why I keep telling you to get over yourselves.

And by the way, considering your behavior concerning posts that disagree with you, it kinda shows you have no interest in a discussion short of total agreement.

..We were talking about High Elves animosity against the Horde due to the events of the Second War and how Lor'themar's exile was not the only reason of groups such as the Silver Covenant existing.

Again, did you have any idea what was being talked about before taking my response out of context to go into yet another pointless "well accept High Elves aren't happening"?

You are not presenting any arguments, you are just saying "not going to happen" when what we are hoping is for Blizzard is to change their mind, and suggest ways they could do so in a way that preserves what they deem faction identity.

I'm open for discussion, and you have admitted to only want to say "Not going to happen." If anyone is asking for total agreement in here, it is you.Tell me were did I ask for such a thing, when all I am doing is present my opinions and postures.

You keep framing this as an issue of being wrong or right, when that's the most asinine way of framing a discussion about opinions, and that's the issue, You want to be right, I want playable High Elves, and you are unable to understand the difference between making an argument for something, and being empirically right about it.

Which again, leads us to you being unable to understand what discussion is actually being had.

[Evilfish]

..We were talking about High Elves animosity against the Horde due to the events of the Second War and how Lor'themar's exile was not the only reason of groups such as the Silver Covenant existing.

Again, did you have any idea what was being talked about before taking my response out of context to go into yet another pointless "well accept High Elves aren't happening"?

You are not presenting any arguments, you are just saying "not going to happen" when what we are hoping is for Blizzard is to change their mind, and suggest ways they could do so in a way that preserves what they deem faction identity.

I'm open for discussion, and you have admitted to only want to say "Not going to happen." If anyone is asking for total agreement in here, it is you.Tell me were did I ask for such a thing, when all I am doing is present my opinions and postures.

You keep framing this as an issue of being wrong or right, when that's the most asinine way of framing a discussion about opinions, and that's the issue, You want to be right, I want playable High Elves, and you are unable to understand the difference between making an argument for something, and being empirically right about it.

Which again, leads us to you being unable to understand what discussion is actually being had.

Yeah, I tend to read some of the wishful thinking you fellas seem to talk yourself into cause let's be honest here, you are not trying to convince anyone, you are just trying to discredit anyone who does not bow to your demands, kinda like you are doing now with me, knowing full well that strippling was responding to one of your remarks about accountability using it as some kind of justification when the fact is, it's not about story justification and it it was ONLY about that, Blizzard could accommodate it just like that.

And evidently Blizzard has to change their mind, cause no one else will give you Helfs in WoW. The problem is that you fellas seem to think that people who disagree with you and do not want helfs for several reasons, are just wrong and out to get you, that's why you have to bring the fight by making pathetic insinuations like you are doing with me.

It's lovely how you fellas want the Horde to give you another cloned belfs and if they argue or disagree, well, they are just too stupid to understand or they are flaming.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yeah, I tend to read some of the wishful thinking you fellas seem to talk yourself into cause let's be honest here, you are not trying to convince anyone, you are just trying to discredit anyone who does not bow to your demands, kinda like you are doing now with me, knowing full well that strippling was responding to one of your remarks about accountability using it as some kind of justification when the fact is, it's not about story justification and it it was ONLY about that, Blizzard could accommodate it just like that.

And evidently Blizzard has to change their mind, cause no one else will give you Helfs in WoW. The problem is that you fellas seem to think that people who disagree with you and do not want helfs for several reasons, are just wrong and out to get you, that's why you have to bring the fight by making pathetic insinuations like you are doing with me.

It's lovely how you fellas want the Horde to give you another cloned belfs and if they argue or disagree, well, they are just too stupid to understand or they are flaming.

And again with the right/wrong dichotomy that I just dismissed, it's like literally you are unable to understand what I am saying, And again using the opportunity to just rant about High elves in general. Strippling swerved from the conversation we were having about the SC and started talking about "well there are reasons why HE aren't playable" and you injected yourself into that.

You keep yammering about "You just want to discredit anyone who doesn't bow to your demands" without actually addressing any discussion points, just arguing for arguing sake against your made up point about me just saying everyone who doesn't agree is wrong.

I don't know how many time I have to reiterate myself this isn't an issue about a right or wrong opinion, this is the third time now, and it really shows you ARE really unable to understand the distinction between making an argument and having a discussion and just wanting to be right. I lierally have told you "being right" is not my intention, but you in you keep being unable to understand, and go on keep ranting about "You just think everyone that disagrees with you is wrong"

Seriously, read to what you respond, take it in and then discuss it, cause again if you just want to rant about strawmen, you can do that without me or anyone else.

But your constant generalizations really do tell us that is what you really want instead of an actual discussion.

[Evilfish]

..We were talking about High Elves animosity against the Horde due to the events of the Second War and how Lor'themar's exile was not the only reason of groups such as the Silver Covenant existing.

Again, did you have any idea what was being talked about before taking my response out of context to go into yet another pointless "well accept High Elves aren't happening"?

You are not presenting any arguments, you are just saying "not going to happen" when what we are hoping is for Blizzard is to change their mind, and suggest ways they could do so in a way that preserves what they deem faction identity.

I'm open for discussion, and you have admitted to only want to say "Not going to happen." If anyone is asking for total agreement in here, it is you.Tell me were did I ask for such a thing, when all I am doing is present my opinions and postures.

You keep framing this as an issue of being wrong or right, when that's the most asinine way of framing a discussion about opinions, and that's the issue, You want to be right, I want playable High Elves, and you are unable to understand the difference between making an argument for something, and being empirically right about it.

Which again, leads us to you being unable to understand what discussion is actually being had.

I wouldn't know if Helfs are not happening. Now I can assume they are not happening since they added Velfs and the lead developer told you fellas where to find your Helfs not so long ago. Call it an educated guess. If you think that does not make a good subject for discussion, say so, just don't pretend it's not a valid point cause it shatters your virtual dreams.

And if I were to debate you on anything regarding the Silver Covenant and the Sunreavers I wouldn't pick reasoning since that's as clear as day and I wouldn't use blurry backgrounds where I'd have to rely on guesses and honestly it would still go back to the original argument that you seem to dislike, that the similarity between the two is way too great, we always end up there, go back and read, it goes full circle.

The thing you don't seem to understand is that people aren't willing to look past that point no matter how much you'd want them to.

At which point you'll argue that I just want to disagree with you and you'll start acting up again just as you are now. So what's the point of going round and round with the same stuff until you eventually declare that I'm telling you that Helfs aren't happening, strawmanning or I'm trolling. That is what I'm pointing out.

It was never about right and wrong, it was more about you cycling through the same old crap to reach the same convenient conclusion.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I wouldn't know if Helfs are not happening. Now I can assume they are not happening since they added Velfs and the lead developer told you fellas where to find your Helfs not so long ago. Call it an educated guess. If you think that does not make a good subject for discussion, say so, just don't pretend it's not a valid point cause it shatters your virtual dreams.

And if I were to debate you on anything regarding the Silver Covenant and the Sunreavers I wouldn't pick reasoning since that's as clear as day and I wouldn't use blurry backgrounds where I'd have to rely on guesses and honestly it would still go back to the original argument that you seem to dislike, that the similarity between the two is way too great, we always end up there, go back and read, it goes full circle.

The thing you don't seem to understand is that people aren't willing to look past that point no matter how much you'd want them to.

At which point you'll argue that I just want to disagree with you and you'll start acting up again just as you are now. So what's the point of going round and round with the same stuff until you eventually declare that I'm telling you that Helfs aren't happening, strawmanning or I'm trolling. That is what I'm pointing out.

It was never about right and wrong, it was more about you cycling through the same old crap to reach the same convenient conclusion.

Literally all you are saying is "No, they are too similar to work" so how is that you being open to any discussion? Then what are you bringing to a discussion about High Elves and their playability?

Again, if all you have to say about the matter is "High Elves are not happening" you have already said anything you need to say. What is the point to come back and keep repeating the same thing? Do you want to have a discussion, go ahead, but if all you have is "High Elves are not happening" that is not being part of a discussion.

So what's the point of anything you are saying beyond that? Do you even have anything to say beyond that?

[Obelisk Kai]

Im not sure why youre are ignoring the "point of divergence" in High Elf history when some of them left the Alliance, changed their name, learned Mana Tap from Illidan and started sucking arcane and fel magic from creatures and fel pylons. High Elves who disagreed with these divergences were either kicked out or brainwashed. Politics is a part of culture.

Because the event that precipitated those changes, the destruction of the Sunwell, affected all Thalassian Elves, not just those who eventually became Blood Elves. Physical divergence due to consumption of fel energies was possible until the restoration of the Sunwell, which is now a light-holy energy source and which all thalassian elves are subject to. The fel taint is being cleansed, and has been cleansed from those Blood Elves who are most attuned to the light. High Elves are not exempt from these effects merely because of the political difference between the two groups.

Im also not sure why some people keep insisting that High Elves and Blood Elves are exactly the same thing in every single way. In lore, they hate being conflated with each other. Even Lorthemar proclaims that his people are "High Elves no longer!" The Blood Elf government recognizes that they are two separate fractions, and banished elves who disagreed with the changes in their culture and society.

Because, again, they are biologically and culturally the same people. Blizzard developers have assured us that Blood Elves are High Elves twice since Blizzcon 2017. The hatred is borne of their political choices, just as the choice to abandon the name High Elf was a political choice to represent the profound tragedy that had befallen their people. But they in every respect except that name, they are still the same people they were prior to the invasion.

I keep bringing up Lightforged Draenai because they are the same people as regular Draenai. This is the root of your argument for Blood Elves. That they come from the same people: High Elves. LF Draenai come from regular Draenai, so why do you consider them a separate race or fraction but not Blood and High Elves? They, like the Draenai, started using an outside magical force to change their physiology. Their skin got redder/whiter, their eyes turned green/gold.

This is a deliberate misreading of the situation and is a false equivalence. The Lightforged Draenei were subject to a process that changed their biology and brought them closer to the light. There is now a biological difference between Lightforged Draenei and Regular, non-Lightforged Draenei. Technically, Turalyon is a lightforged Human and is equally distinct from regular Humans. If Blizzard were minded, this would justify a Lightforged Human race (but they do not seem to be minded).

Blood Elves used arcane energy stolen from minor creatures to sustain their addiction. High Elves I sated their addiction through other means, also involving arcane energy. Blood Elves did not directly imbibe fel energy, their eyes changed colour due to being in the proximity of the fel crystals scattered across Quel'thalas (confirmed in an interview with a lore dev several years back). Both sated their addiction with the same energy, the divide was over how to obtain it. With the restoration of the Sunwell, any long term changes to the Blood Elves has been arrested and both Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves are subject to the same biological changes that will result from feeding on a light-arcane energy source. Alliance High Elves are not excluded from the Sunwell due to their political beliefs.

If you want an Elf that you can draw an equivalence with the Lightforged with, it is the Void Elves, subject to an outside energy source that has physiologically changed them.

I know from reading one of your many, many, posts that you seem to believe that the only reason why Alliance players want High Elves is because they want to steal the Ayran looking Blood Elf model, as stated in your signature. Could it be possible, in a RPG, that people of either fraction would want to play the Silver Covenant High Elves that stayed true to their values, history, and the Alliance? If I just wanted the Blood Elf model, Id play a Blood Elf. But I think they are arrogant, evil, mana sucking traitors, who's role as magical elf in the Horde is being usurped by the much stronger and ambitious Nightborne.

Some pro High Elf players want it for the lore. But given the excitement generated by Afrasiabi's 'High Elf LIKE skins are possible for Void Elves' I am more convinced than ever that the majority opinion is really for human like skin tones on a thalassian elf. Any player who is genuinely in it for the lore is being used as a fig leaf to provide a skein of respectability to a group whose desire of an 'aryan elf' as you put it makes them look justifiably shallow.

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Yes, the Silver Covenant Rangers joined the Hunter Hall, but their Mages joined the Suramar Insurrection. That they joined one Order Hall doesn't mean they have one role as a faction.

A couple of weeks ago, when engaged in a similar argument, I actually went outside Suramar. There was Veressa and two or three High Elf Mages. Conversely when Veressa went to Zul'Aman, she had a much larger force of Farstriders with her (I counted at least twenty rangers). Now in a part of the passage I haven't quoted, you claim that you came to the conclusion Dalaran is one third High Elf based on in game representation. I can show, using in game representation, that while SC Mages do exist they are outnumbered by what looks like Hunters and Rogues.

Even on the Isle of Thunder (where the SC doesn't operate the Alliance base as the Sunreavers do the Horde base, the Kirin Tor does), most High Elf NPCs use bows, or daggers or even swords. This is consistent with an ex-military background.

And again, your whole thing about the Helves on the lodges joining the SC is just speculation, possible yes, but with no supporting evidence. So to say "it's the most logical explanation" is really just your opinion, it could literally be as likely just be Vereesa training a bunch of discontent Dalarani citizens as Rangers, because again, you don't have any evidence that most, or even a sizable part of the current Silver Covenant Rangers come from a Farstrider background

You are insisting that there is a strong community of Dalaran High Elves who have dwelled there for centuries. To do this you are making the following assumptions.

1.) That many were not killed in the city's destruction.
2.) That many remained after the destruction and did not go home to QT or go with Jaina.
3.) That when Kael, their Alliance aligned Prince came back, they did not join him to fight.
4.) That they turned a blind eye en masse when Garithos sentenced their people to death.
5.) That Garithos, a well known racist who hated Elves, differntiated between them and the other Elves he was about to execute.
6.) That they did not accompany Kael through the portal.
7.) That they are comfortable siding with Dalaran against Quel'thalas.
8.) That most of them did this without being Mages, which is pretty much the main reason an Elf would go to Dalaran in the first place.

This defies logic. You argue for the existence of a Dalaran community of High Elves to show there is a distinct population from the High Elves of Quel'thalas who became the Blood Elves. The truth is much simpler. The community was destroyed in the fall of the city, some came back with Kael but where chased out, when the city was rebuilt Veressa (Rhonin's wife) formed the Silver Covenant and rallied any High Elf she could. Primarily these were Farstriders who had served with the Alliance and couldn't stomach what their people were doing in turning their backs on the Alliance. The community that was chased out did eventually return as the Sunreavers, and they were allowed in by Rhonin.

And I am stopping here as I have run out of time to reply. Sorry.

[Evilfish]

Literally all you are saying is "No, they are too similar to work" so how is that you being open to any discussion? Then what are you bringing to a discussion about High Elves and their playability?

Again, if all you have to say about the matter is "High Elves are not happening" you have already said anything you need to say. What is the point to come back and keep repeating the same thing? Do you want to have a discussion, go ahead, but if all you have is "High Elves are not happening" that is not being part of a discussion.

So what's the point of anything you are saying beyond that? Do you even have anything to say beyond that?

Like I said, you not liking that subject is not important because as much as you'd love to ignore it, the subject always comes back to it. So does not matter how strongly you feel about it, it's about how relevant it is to the situation, therefore it's relevant as a counter-argument when you say you want Helfs and trying to imply those who bring it up, lack nuance, don't understand or are trolling, which you have done, does not change that argument's relevance and it does not improve your odds. It just makes you annoying.

[FlubberPuddy]

Because the event that precipitated those changes, the destruction of the Sunwell, affected all Thalassian Elves, not just those who eventually became Blood Elves. Physical divergence due to consumption of fel energies was possible until the restoration of the Sunwell, which is now a light-holy energy source and which all thalassian elves are subject to. The fel taint is being cleansed, and has been cleansed from those Blood Elves who are most attuned to the light. High Elves are not exempt from these effects merely because of the political difference between the two groups.

Except we see no High Elves with Golden Eyes, heck High Elves don't even have glowing eyes. This suggests a biological basis for differences is at work. Doesn't matter how much people want to downplay it.

It's again why Blood Elves also have access to more red skin colors and no High Elf does. High Elves are typically pale af. That again suggests another biological difference.

If people are trying to say that High Elf fans should accept they'll never be playable. Then I think those people need to accept that Blood Elves did get affected biologically due to the increased reliance on the Sunwell.

[Garfurion]

Because, again, they are biologically and culturally the same people. Blizzard developers have assured us that Blood Elves are High Elves twice since Blizzcon 2017. The hatred is borne of their political choices, just as the choice to abandon the name High Elf was a political choice to represent the profound tragedy that had befallen their people. But they in every respect except that name, they are still the same people they were prior to the invasion.

I don't agree that High and Blood Elves are culturally the same and only made different political choices. That may have been true shortly after the destruction of the Sunwell but not anymore.

First of all, their current political differences are a direct result of their cultural differences (ideals, customs, social behavior) which resulted for instance in Lor'themar making the political choice to exile elves from Quel'Thalas, which in turn didn't leave those exiles much choice, political or otherwise.

As stated by Ion the High Elves and Blood Elves have a different backstory in terms of their relationship to magic and the Sunwell.

He was clearly referring to how all currently adult Blood Elves decided to feed their hunger for magic by draining Mana from living things (a defining factor according to the Warcraft encyclopedia) while High Elves didn't want to do that (different social behavior) and Highvale Elves even stopped practicing magic completely after the destruction of the Sunwell.

If Lor'themar hadn't exiled Elves refusing to drain mana from living beings they would still be part of Blood Elf culture instead of joining organizations like the Silver Covenant.

High Elves, like the Highvale and Alliance Expedition Elves would probably have stuck with the Alliance anyway out of loyalty to their friends/comrades, but they wouldn't have differed from Quel'Thalas Elves regarding how they deal with their Mana addiction.

Secondly, Alliance High Elves cannot be culturally identical to Blood Elves since they are not even a single well defined or culturally identical group themselves (or as Ion put it "there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group that still remains in Azeroth") even though they all (politically) support the Alliance.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Like I said, you not liking that subject is not important because as much as you'd love to ignore it, the subject always comes back to it. So does not matter how strongly you feel about it, it's about how relevant it is to the situation, therefore it's relevant as a counter-argument when you say you want Helfs and trying to imply those who bring it up, lack nuance, don't understand or are trolling, which you have done, does not change that argument's relevance and it does not improve your odds. It just makes you annoying.

Again, how is saying "High Elves are not going to happen" furthers any discussion? If that's all you have to say, good, but don't pretend it deserves any follow up, because by its nature, it just doesn't. Because for you the only good answer would be an agreement.

Given that the discussion is about "Why we think HE should be a thing" the answer "No, they are not going to be a thing" is just missing the point and shutting down any discussion. Which again, you don't have to be a part of, but you gotta stop pretending that saying "High Elves are not going to happen" brings anything of substance or furthers any discussion.

This is a discussion thread, if your only point is "There is no discussion about this" What the heck are you even doing here, for real?

[FlubberPuddy]

This is a discussion thread, if your only point is "There is no discussion about this" What the heck are you even doing here, for real?

Agree completely, this is also why we've seen posts that just say "Blood Elves are High Elves" only and nothing else get infracted. Because the point of a discussion is to "spoiler": foster discussion. Who would've thunk.

I'd say some posters are just going in roundabout ways to essentially say "Blood Elves are High Elves, deal with it" without actually writing that line only so they're save from the infractions/bans. Best to just report or not respond to those not trying to have a real discussion.

Especially as it ignores the most recent word on there being a possibility of Alliance getting playable access to the High Elf fantasy.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

A couple of weeks ago, when engaged in a similar argument, I actually went outside Suramar. There was Veressa and two or three High Elf Mages. Conversely when Veressa went to Zul'Aman, she had a much larger force of Farstriders with her (I counted at least twenty rangers). Now in a part of the passage I haven't quoted, you claim that you came to the conclusion Dalaran is one third High Elf based on in game representation. I can show, using in game representation, that while SC Mages do exist they are outnumbered by what looks like Hunters and Rogues.

Even on the Isle of Thunder (where the SC doesn't operate the Alliance base as the Sunreavers do the Horde base, the Kirin Tor does), most High Elf NPCs use bows, or daggers or even swords. This is consistent with an ex-military background.

There are later a lot more mages on the promenade. Did you also count all the 7th Legion mages, Guardians, all over the place? Did you counted that on the Trueshot Lodge there is one single High Elf NPC?

Also in isle of thunder there was also a bunch of guardians and arcanists. Also Dalaran had it's own military. To say that any HE with a military background has to come from a Farstrider one is senseless.

You are insisting that there is a strong community of Dalaran High Elves who have dwelled there for centuries. To do this you are making the following assumptions.

1.) That many were not killed in the city's destruction.

Kai, Dalaran was evacuated before its destruction.

2.) That many remained after the destruction and did not go home to QT or go with Jaina.

Wherever they were evacuated, it was pretty much a safe place since the population came back to get the city running for WotlK. That's why the city is full of people.

3.) That when Kael, their Alliance aligned Prince came back, they did not join him to fight.

It's far more likely that Kael was was evacuated as well, since he, well, didn't die during Dalaran as pretty much everyone else. So the question is then how many elves stayed with the Dalaran evacuees and how many returned with him to Q'T

4.) That they turned a blind eye en masse when Garithos sentenced their people to death.

Something that the population of Dalaran, being evacuated somewhere else and NOT IN DALARAN'S RUINS, wasn't necessarily privy to or too late to act against.

5.) That Garithos, a well known racist who hated Elves, differntiated between them and the other Elves he was about to execute.

Again Kai, you keep forgetting the population of Dalaran was evacuated SOMEWHERE ELSE.

6.) That they did not accompany Kael through the portal.

Because the population of Dalaran was somewhere else while Garithos was reclaiming the area.

7.) That they are comfortable siding with Dalaran against Quel'thalas.

Given that they are on the Kirin Tor and not Q'T, it is obvious.

8.) That most of them did this without being Mages, which is pretty much the main reason an Elf would go to Dalaran in the first place.

Contestable on so many levels. What about elves that were born in there by mage parents in the city? Why of the elves that just liked the city, what of those that actually couldn't cut it on Silvermoon and saw Dalaran as easy. There are SO MANY reasons why people move to other cities, you know, like work, and have families there. To say the only reason elves would go to Dalaran is to just study magic -when they ALREADY as a society taught magic to humans- it's kinda limited.

This defies logic. You argue for the existence of a Dalaran community of High Elves to show there is a distinct population from the High Elves of Quel'thalas who became the Blood Elves. The truth is much simpler. The community was destroyed in the fall of the city, some came back with Kael but where chased out, when the city was rebuilt Veressa (Rhonin's wife) formed the Silver Covenant and rallied any High Elf she could. Primarily these were Farstriders who had served with the Alliance and couldn't stomach what their people were doing in turning their backs on the Alliance. The community that was chased out did eventually return as the Sunreavers, and they were allowed in by Rhonin.

And I am stopping here as I have run out of time to reply. Sorry.

The problem is that your logic completely obviates the huge fact that most of Dalaran's populace was evacuated somewhere else, not gallivanting around Silverpine with Garithos forces.

"The community was destroyed in the fall of the city" No, Kay, They were evacuated.

[RangerDaz]

Except we see no High Elves with Golden Eyes, heck High Elves don't even have glowing eyes. This suggests a biological basis for differences is at work. Doesn't matter how much people want to downplay it.

It's again why Blood Elves also have access to more red skin colors and no High Elf does. High Elves are typically pale af. That again suggests another biological difference.

If people are trying to say that High Elf fans should accept they'll never be playable. Then I think those people need to accept that Blood Elves did get affected biologically due to the increased reliance on the Sunwell.

This.

The sunwell changing thr Blood Elves and not the Silver Covenant is basically what i have been saying for the last 200 pages on this thread.

[Friendlyimmolation]

This.

The sunwell changing thr Blood Elves and not the Silver Covenant is basically what i have been saying for the last 200 pages on this thread.

which is incorrect, the sunwell touches all Thasslassian elves unless they were cut off, which requires a ritual by magisters.

I doubt the average high elf demands enough attention from Rommath to go "Fuck this idiot, I'm cutting them off"

[Evilfish]

This is a discussion thread, if your only point is "There is no discussion about this" What the heck are you even doing here, for real?

Here it is. The typical hypocrisy and crap throwing.

Let me spell it out for you - I'm disagreeing with you. I, personally don't think you are right. That's it. If you want to keep pretending you are not understanding that to further your hypocritical rhetoric so you can try and get rid of any opposing factor in this thread, let me ask you something - why are you still posting here when Ion Hazzikostas told you to go roll a belf if you want helfs?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Here it is. The typical hypocrisy and crap throwing.

Let me spell it out for you - I'm disagreeing with you. I, personally don't think you are right. That's it. If you want to keep pretending you are not understanding that to further your hypocritical rhetoric so you can try and get rid of any opposing factor in this thread, let me ask you something - why are you still posting here when Ion Hazzikostas told you to go roll a belf if you want helfs?

*Endless Sigh* Because we hope he changes his mind. That's it, that's the whole point.

"High Elves are not going to happen" is not an argument, is the current "status quo." The whole point of the discussion is hoping that changes, so that you keep bringing "But High Elves aren't going to happen" is saying "but this is how things are".

When the whole point of the discussion is "We hope this changes in the future"

Can you stop being obtuse now?

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which is incorrect, the sunwell touches all Thasslassian elves unless they were cut off, which requires a ritual by magisters.

I doubt the average high elf demands enough attention from Rommath to go "Fuck this idiot, I'm cutting them off"

But it is evident the Sunwell is affecting Blood Elves in a manner that isn't shown affecting any High Elves. BE's are getting Golden Eyes, HE's aren't, and it's not something that we can just dismiss out of hand.

[Friendlyimmolation]

*Endless Sigh* Because we hope he changes his mind. That's it, that's the whole point.

"High Elves are not going to happen" is not an argument, is the current "status quo." The whole point of the discussion is hoping that changes, so that you keep bringing "But High Elves aren't going to happen" is saying "but this is how things are".

When the whole point of the discussion is "We hope this changes in the future"

Can you stop being obtuse now?

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But it is evident the Sunwell is affecting Blood Elves in a manner that isn't shown affecting any High Elves. BE's are getting Golden Eyes, HE's aren't, and it's not something that we can just dismiss out of hand.

Or, more likely Blizzard isn't going to waste effort giving golden eyes to high elves, that is easily dismiss-able because we know in lore the Sunwell is linked to all Thasslassian elves. That was first shown in Lor'themar's short story, and stated again around WoD

Hoping Blizzard keeps the stance they have on high elves for 14 years and not taking yet more from a Horde race to give to the Alliance is just as if not more valid.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Or, more likely Blizzard isn't going to waste effort giving golden eyes to high elves, that is easily dismiss-able because we know in lore the Sunwell is linked to all Thasslassian elves.

Hoping Blizzard keeps the stance they have on high elves for 14 years and not taking yet more from a Horde race to give to the Alliance is just as if not more valid.

Likely, sure, but unconfirmed, so ;D

And no, let's hope for playable High Elves instead! As someone who plays both factions I just can't see it as "taking from one side to the other." It's like agreeing with those people claiming that Nigthborne took stuff from the Night Elves. Chill people, it's just adding another perspective, the whole "taking away" thing is childish.

Yet even so, I am not against just making HE models different if it is such an issue for some.

[Evilfish]

*Endless Sigh* Because we hope he changes his mind. That's it, that's the whole point.

"High Elves are not going to happen" is not an argument, is the current "status quo." The whole point of the discussion is hoping that changes, so that you keep bringing "But High Elves aren't going to happen" is saying "but this is how things are".

When the whole point of the discussion is "We hope this changes in the future"

Can you stop being obtuse now?

Act bored, act the fool all you want, but don't try to imply anyone who disagrees with you as you disagree with Ion, needs to be silent just cause you think they are not good enough for your discussion, which is what you are doing. And since your point, like you said, is limited to "helfs should be a thing" and the disagreement to that point needs to be just as simple, even if it's not.

Yes, you seem to be trying to change Ion's mind by systematically trying to shame people who don't share your opinion, out of this thread and when you can't do that, you start sigh-ing and insulting. For several posts you have deliberately missed the point and tried to discredit me with your insinuations.

I keep telling you to get over yourselves...