Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[RangerDaz]

I don't think this particular point of lore has been contradicted in any positive or confirmable fashion, though. Med'an, for example. goes completely unmentioned in the "Chronicle" series - this doesn't retcon him from existence, though; nowhere does "Chronicle Vol. 2" or "Chronicle Vol. 3" state that Garona was childless or that the things done by Med'an were instead done by someone else ("Chronicle Vol. 3" actually weaves around Med'an's portion of the story without mention at all). As I see it, the writers have no interest in further exploring or mentioning Med'an (likely due to his unpopularity) but he still unfortunately exists.

I agree there are many contradictions, though; I just don't think this is one of them. We don't know if the golden coloration of the Blood Elves' eyes is going to unique to them or if it can or will be shared with their High Elven cousins. Considered there's a handful of Blood Elves with glowing blue eyes, it's likely there will eventually be a few High Elves with the golden coloration.

Well there is one thing we cant forget : for the better and for the worse, warcraft's Lore is tied up to gameplay, and many of the Lore's restrictions come from gameplay decisions. Having said that, we clearly see that it is a gameplay decision that the colors of the playable Blood elf eyes and the Npcs from Silvermoon have exclusively fel green or golden eyes, something no other group of quelthalas elves have.

The glowing blue eyes and sometimes green (not FEL green) belong to the elves who are Queldorei (as said in the suramar liberation quest) and not Sindorei (blood elves) or Rendorei (void elves). So for me Blizzard clearly splits Sindorei and Queldorei ingame and shows their differences.

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In Chronicles 3 it is stated that they destroyed the Sunwell because the decay was affecting the high elves directly.

Of course, just like the holy sunwell is affecting the silvermoon elves. It isnt contradicting my arguments.

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Save yourself some time friend, he isn't worth it. You can't beat his head canon and even when you provide sources that disprove it he will still quote the same old things that were invalid over and over even if you provide him with more up to date evidence to the contrary.

Thanks im just trying to show that Alliance High Elves are a valid option for an allied race and can be implemented in a different way than the current existing blood and void elves. And have lore and history for them.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Save yourself some time friend, he isn't worth it. You can't beat his head canon and even when you provide sources that disprove it he will still quote the same old things that were invalid over and over even if you provide him with more up to date evidence to the contrary.

Once more you charge in declaring I don't know what I'm talking about while making it blatantly obvious you are incapable of following canon lore when it goes against your high elf fantasies. You are the thing you accuse me of being.

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Thanks im just trying to show that Alliance High Elves are a valid option for an allied race and can be implemented in a different way than the current existing blood and void elves.

Yea, lore be damned, it's what you want to be true that counts.

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Im not sure what you want to say here... I believe they destroyed the corrupted sunwell to prevent the corruption from spreading, but the sunwell ended up surviving in an uncorrupted avatar guarded by Kalegos. While the sunwell was gone, the elves survived without it. That was probably how the silver covenant has survived without the sunwell and havent changed by it since it was infused with holy energies.

And once more, not how the sunwell works, surviving without it doesn't mean it's not going to effect you when it comes back. All of this just in a vain effort to make high elves different. Kinda sad.

[RangerDaz]

Once more you charge in declaring I don't know what I'm talking about while making it blatantly obvious you are incapable of following canon lore when it goes against your high elf fantasies. You are the thing you accuse me of being.

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Yea, lore be damned, it's what you want to be true that counts.

Couldnt the same be said about you? ...

[Friendlyimmolation]

Couldnt the same be said about you? ...

I'm not the one trying to say lore doesn't matter guy. Nor am I incorrectly shouting out "noncanon chronicle 3!" when Chronicle 3 does nothing to change what has been stated about the Sunwell. Nor am I trying to justify the stories ability to change as justification for why I hold my opinion equal to what is currently canon.


Nor am I the one actively trying to come up false reasons high elves are different in an effort to say one race is actually two. Of all the hills to die on, you picked a poor one.

[Maxilian]

I agree there are many contradictions, though; I just don't think this is one of them. We don't know if the golden coloration of the Blood Elves' eyes is going to unique to them or if it can or will be shared with their High Elven cousins. Considered there's a handful of Blood Elves with glowing blue eyes, it's likely there will eventually be a few High Elves with the golden coloration.

I wonder if after all that happened (mainly with the Void Elves and Alleria), if the HE are still allowed to pilgrimage into the Sunwell, if not, it would make sense to have more and more HE studying to become VEs.

[RangerDaz]

Once more you charge in declaring I don't know what I'm talking about while making it blatantly obvious you are incapable of following canon lore when it goes against your high elf fantasies. You are the thing you accuse me of being.

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Yea, lore be damned, it's what you want to be true that counts.

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And once more, not how the sunwell works, surviving without it doesn't mean it's not going to effect you when it comes back. All of this just in a vain effort to make high elves different. Kinda sad.

You really like to use adjectives to qualify other people, dont you? I would suggest you should cut them out to be more objective in your arguments.

Objectively: ingame no other elves besides the sindorei have fel green or golden eyes. And ingame only queldorei have the blue eyes. This shows with what magic school they are infused with... for now at least.

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I'm not the one trying to say lore doesn't matter guy. Nor am I incorrectly shouting out "noncanon chronicle 3!" when Chronicle 3 does nothing to change what has been stated about the Sunwell. Nor am I trying to justify the stories ability to change as justification for why I hold my opinion equal to what is currently canon.


Nor am I the one actively trying to come up false reasons high elves are different in an effort to say one race is actually two. Of all the hills to die on, you picked a poor one.

My answer to this also above.

[Maxilian]

I still think this can be solved with a new model (different models don't have to mean different races), as it have been shown with prominent lore characters (Thrall, Garrosh vs PC Orcs in its time or Varian, fat human, defias human vs PC human)

[Friendlyimmolation]

I still think this can be solved with a new model (different models don't have to mean different races), as it have been shown with prominent lore characters (Thrall, Garrosh vs PC Orcs in its time or Varian, fat human, defias human vs PC human)

fat high elves, make it so.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I don't think this particular point of lore has been contradicted in any positive or confirmable fashion, though. Med'an, for example. goes completely unmentioned in the "Chronicle" series - this doesn't retcon him from existence, though; nowhere does "Chronicle Vol. 2" or "Chronicle Vol. 3" state that Garona was childless or that the things done by Med'an were instead done by someone else ("Chronicle Vol. 3" actually weaves around Med'an's portion of the story without mention at all). As I see it, the writers have no interest in further exploring or mentioning Med'an (likely due to his unpopularity) but he still unfortunately exists.

I agree there are many contradictions, though; I just don't think this is one of them. We don't know if the golden coloration of the Blood Elves' eyes is going to unique to them or if it can or will be shared with their High Elven cousins. Considered there's a handful of Blood Elves with glowing blue eyes, it's likely there will eventually be a few High Elves with the golden coloration.

I do think there is an interesting room for speculation here, as we really don't know exactly WHY some Blood Elves are getting Golden Eyes are others not. That we haven't seen HE's with golden eyes so far could simply be that Blizz hasn't bothered, or there is actually a reason.

As for the handful of Blood Elves with blue eyes, we still don't know why they have Blue Eyes. Are they High Elves that joined the BE? Blood Elves that just weren't in Q'T for enough time during the usage of fel crystals? It really doesn't tell us that Blood Elves have a way of getting Blue Eyes back, specially since the last blue eyed blood elves showed up during MoP, so it's hard to think is something emerging if it hasn't actually happened again for the last 6 years. Makes it look more like a one time thing.

[Friendlyimmolation]

You really like to use adjectives to qualify other people, dont you? I would suggest you should cut them out to be more objective in your arguments.

Objectively: ingame no other elves besides the sindorei have fel green or golden eyes. And ingame only queldorei have the blue eyes. This shows with what magic school they are infused with... for now at least.

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My answer to this also above.

There are blood elves with blue eyes already in the game, Lanesh has been around since what, Wotlk? MoP? Lore not being properly portrayed in game doesn't magically make it disappear.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

fat high elves, make it so.

I'd roll a pointy eared Kul Tiran.

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You really like to use adjectives to qualify other people, dont you? I would suggest you should cut them out to be more objective in your arguments.

Objectively: ingame no other elves besides the sindorei have fel green or golden eyes. And ingame only queldorei have the blue eyes. This shows with what magic school they are infused with... for now at least.

Some fact checking; there are some blood elves with blue eyes. We might not know why tho, but yeah, there are some blood elves with blue eyes.

[Obelisk Kai]

snip]

Rather than respond to every single point you have made, let us boil it down. I believe the following occurred. That when the city of Dalaran fell during Warcraft 3, it's community of High Elves was destroyed and scattered to the winds (not necessarily the people). Some went with Jaina to Kalimdor, which is an in game explanation for the fact Mage and Priest units in the Alliance armies during missions set in Kalimdor were High Elves. These individuals later settled in Theramore alongside Jaina.
Some returned with Kael'thas to Silvermoon and became Blood Elves.

Some remained around Dalaran to help them rebuild. When Kael returned at the head of the Blood Elven forces to assist Garithos, he would have shown up before he a.) split with the Alliance b.) went to Outland and sided with Illidan c.) sent Rommath back to teach the Blood Elves how to use those techniques to survive. These Elves would have had almost no reason not to side with their Prince, who lest we forget was the leader of the Thalassian Elf community prior to the fall of the city. There was nothing to schism over.

When Garithos sentenced the Elves did death, he sentenced to death all the Elves associated with Kael i.e. most of them. These escaped. After Garithos' death and the destruction of his army, the Kirin Tor survivors and the few, few Elves who remained them erected a shield and rebuilt the city. Rhonin was elected head of the Kirin Tor. His wife Veressa began organizing the High Elves in the city, whom were not very numerous. The former community had been dominated by Mages. Given the nature of the addiction, it was the Mages who were the first to succumb to Illidan's promises and use the mana draining techniques. A few Magisters remained in Dalaran, but their struggle with the addiction would have been the hardest. These would be the High Elf Magisters of Dalaran, a tiny group (unrepresented on the Kirin Tor council of six).

Veressa issued a rallying cry for any wandering High Elf who disagreed with the decision Silvermoon had made to come and join her. These tended to be ex Farstriders, borne out by the military nature of most remaining High Elves encountered. They had fought with the Alliance during the Second War and part of the Third, and felt a loyalty and kinship to the Alliance. They believed Silvermoon had betrayed the Alliance, not vice versa. Hearing the call of a former Farstrider, a Windrunner no less, they answered her call and arrived. This is the beginning of a new High Elf community in Dalaran, one much smaller than what came previously, but they had a place to start again.

Survivors of the old community, those who had followed Kael but who had lived in Dalaran for millenia, still believed Dalaran was their home. Despite their allegiance to the Horde, this group of primarily Mages listened to the words of Aethas Sunreaver, formed the Sunreavers and returned to the city where they were not only readmitted, but lodged in a recreation of their old quarter (Jaina's flashback placed Kael squarely in the Sunreaver section after all before there even where Sunreavers).

To sum up, the old High Elf community of Mages was destroyed (not killed). A new community formed from High Elf exiles from Silvermoon, drawn by Veressa and including a small fraction of the old High Elf civilian population, was formed. A large section of the old community returned in the form of the Sunreavers and both sides held animosity for each other based on their political opinions.

You are attempting to argue that the Dalaran community of High Elves survived more or less intact and that the Silver Covenant is made up of a majority of that population. Your reason for doing so is to justify the existence of an expatriate community of High Elves that has dwelled in Dalaran for thousands of years as part of the wider argument for an Alliance High Elf allied race. If it is the same people, then they've been apart from Silvermoon for a very long time.

I believe the evidence behind what I believe is much stronger, particularly given that Jaina herself terms the Sunreavers as the elves who taught Humanity magic and the Sunreavers insisted Dalaran was their home. The Sunreavers reacted to the purge precisely how you would expect the long term residents of the city to react under the circumstances. The Sunreavers, those Horde aligned mages, are the expatriate community you believe the Silver Covenant represents. The Silver Covenant consists of those who rejected Silvermoon a mere twelve years ago. There has been no time for differentiation.

[Evilfish]

I still think this can be solved with a new model (different models don't have to mean different races), as it have been shown with prominent lore characters (Thrall, Garrosh vs PC Orcs in its time or Varian, fat human, defias human vs PC human)

So what happens if that model isn't everything the helf fans dreamed of? Another "wasted" elf clone?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

There are blood elves with blue eyes already in the game, Lanesh has been around since what, Wotlk? MoP? Lore not being properly portrayed in game doesn't magically make it disappear.

Also Darnarian and the Froshands and Captains. The problem is that we don't know where they come from. Are they late addition BE's? Kirin Tor turn coats? Some BE's that were somewhere else during the heavy usage of fel crystals in QT? With no explanation of where they come from, and no new additions since MoP, it's only speculative.

IMO the Frosthands have blue eyes just because of that, they use ice magic XD. The Captains could be a bug for all we know, since there is no reason why that type of NPC would have blue eyes and the rest not.

[Obelisk Kai]

This.

The sunwell changing thr Blood Elves and not the Silver Covenant is basically what i have been saying for the last 200 pages on this thread.

Daz that doesn't make sense, all thalassian elves with the likely exception of the Void Elves are affected by the Sunwell regardless of where or even when they are. Anything that is happening to the Blood Elves is happening to the High Elves as well.

As to why you don't see golden eyed High Elves, there is a game reason and a lore reason.

The lore reason is that only thalassian elves REALLY attuned to the light are manifesting the golden eyes at this point. More will doubtless manifest them in future. But given their extreme rarity, the number of High Elves who would have manifested golden eyes is likely exceptionally low (probably single digits). Most Blood Elves still maintain the green eyes right now.
It is also worth bearing in mind that the Sunwell is a light-ARCANE energy source. Given that High Elf eyes already reflect arcane magic, it is possible that their eyes will not change as the arcane part of the Sunwell is reinforcing what is already there among those more arcane attuned.

The game reason is that Blizzard hasn't bothered updating the special High Elf skins that have blue eyes for something that is likely incredibly rare.

[Kithelle]

Well there is one thing we cant forget : for the better and for the worse, warcraft's Lore is tied up to gameplay, and many of the Lore's restrictions come from gameplay decisions. Having said that, we clearly see that it is a gameplay decision that the colors of the playable Blood elf eyes and the Npcs from Silvermoon have exclusively fel green or golden eyes, something no other group of quelthalas elves have.

The glowing blue eyes and sometimes green (not FEL green) belong to the elves who are Queldorei (as said in the suramar liberation quest) and not Sindorei (blood elves) or Rendorei (void elves). So for me Blizzard clearly splits Sindorei and Queldorei ingame and shows their differences.

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Of course, just like the holy sunwell is affecting the silvermoon elves. It isnt contradicting my arguments.

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Thanks im just trying to show that Alliance High Elves are a valid option for an allied race and can be implemented in a different way than the current existing blood and void elves. And have lore and history for them.

Doesn't matter how hard you try, there are players who start foaming at the mouth with just the mention of High Elves...I've seen players offer various customization differences, race idea trades for High Elves, and even just blue eye options for Blood Elves...people will argue against anything no matter how hard you try unfortunately.

[Maxilian]

So what happens if that model isn't everything the helf fans dreamed of? Another "wasted" elf clone?

Well it would end up being the end of "GIVE ME HES!", and it would turn into "CHANGE THIS SHIT!" until they get used to it.

Note: Yeah, this alone make it hard to the point that maybe its not even worth it (Though they could solve this by giving a sneak peek of the new model with a new important character that use that model -like a patch boss or something-, to see how good is the reception of the model itself)

[RangerDaz]

There are blood elves with blue eyes already in the game, Lanesh has been around since what, Wotlk? MoP? Lore not being properly portrayed in game doesn't magically make it disappear.

I dont know that one, but maybe thete might be one or two. However above 95% of the sindorei have fel green or golden eyes.

[Obelisk Kai]

We just had a lead dev tell people that an incarnation of High elves is still possible and people are still trying to shut down the conversation.

You had a lead dev nod along when told 'High Elves are the Alliance version of Void Elves', blanch a little when asked about High Elf LIKE customization options and who then said 'it's always possible (like the previous two times Ion said anything is possible in future...sorry three times, Ion was asked at Blizzcon apparently and more or less said the exact same thing albeit much nicer and less direct).

Of course, a Void Elf with High Elf LIKE customization options isn't going to be a High Elf. It's still going to be a shadow infested Void Elf.

[Maxilian]

fat high elves, make it so.

It would be interesting to say the least.



Maybe not....