Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Deleted]

I don't know how long have I been gone for. But after somebody who continues to stalk me and use almost every name I am and still continues to use the whole Mass Shooter counter argument to ether Silence me or anyone else who wanted to ether brother talking to the Antis or even forming a conversation with them still proves my point of everything wrong with this group of players in general specially on my post about them after it got taken down by Mods Who don't want the Truth of these trolls.

Its still is sad to this very day that these people like the Anti HEers still continue to do the same thing as they done since 2017 when Void Elves were announced. They see the Word High Elves, They complain about them being a Playable Alliance Elven race, Wanting to have sick fantasies of killing them all including Silver Covenant to force down the generic, dull, dumb, plot line that still is to this very day one of worst lore races to date that butchers any hope of variety skin color elves that isn't generic blueberries or any iconic feel of Warcraft 2 and 3. Of course They want to keep going on with their blinded agenda of having blue eyes just to prove their point of forcing poor gameplay on to people where they don't realize that they are only ruining/damaging the very race that started being their own kind of Elves since Warcraft 3 with Kael and so on through WoW. After reading through Threads and posts made by them. It just goes to show they have no respect nor love for anything that is WoW, Alliance Faction, True Horde Faction not the One that is full of entitled Elven Players and Sylvanas Fanboys, Warcraft RTS, and Warcraft in General.

Seriously. If you think that Playable High Elves on the Alliance is ruining WoW and if you think that Void Elves are the way of the Future for Story Telling. Then your not a True Warcraft Fan nor Player. Period.

These are not "sick fantasies", it's roleplaying in character. High Elves are traitors not only in the political sense, but they also don't honor the fallen ones, who died protecting their homeland from the Scourge. They spit on that sacrifice and rather follow their human masters as lapdogs and bitches, even though some of them tried to exterminate them in a situation where their people have been the most vulnerable.

This is really easy to understand, why a loyal Blood Elf would want to kill any High Elf on sight. The only reason to cooperate with Alleria and her ilk on Argus was the fight against the Legion, and the possibility to educate her about the traitorous Alliance.

[Obelisk Kai]

I would not hang on to Ion's flippant comment so desperately. Blizz is known to be wrong, or change their minds quite often. Metzen once said that "Tandred Proudmoore will not be cannon." That statement was completely reversed as Tandred is now cannon AND alive in BFA. Also, I suggest reading or playing the Blood Elf heritage scenario when it becomes available. Lorthemar very clearly proclaims that they are High Elves no longer. If you claimed otherwise, he'd have you exiled or brainwashed.

On two occasions in the past thirteen months, Blizzard was directly asked about playable High Elves as an Allied race. On both occasions, in an official capacity, they were ruled out on the grounds that Blood Elves ARE High Elves and that High Elves are already playable.

Recently at Blizzcon,someone from the pro High Elf discord approached Ion and asked him if High Elves were possible. I found this image on the Vulpera discord and I found it very illuminating.



Ion's response was pretty much the same as it was on both other occasions in that he recognised there was a passionate community (we know he knew this as in the April Q and A he joked about getting a lot of angry responses from that community). He said they weren't happening in BFA (also already known, as Void Elves would not have been developed if High Elves were planned). Most importantly though, he says they aren't ruled out forever. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID IN THE APRIL Q AND A that 'anything is possible in the future'.

It's hypothetically possible and you can't say with certainty that a choice that may not be yours to make a long time down the road will or will not be taken, but at the moment, right now, we have reinforcement upon reinforcement of their antipathy towards playable Alliance High Elves (personified in Void Elves being a thing) means their addition is very, very unlikely in the short to medium term.

Then you couple that with the fact that the cadence of Allied race additions is going to be drastically scaled back post BFA and you will enter a situation where every new Allied Race added to the game is going to a once in every two or even four year opportunity to add something new to the game. I find it very hard to believe that in such a situation, they are going to give the Alliance an effective duplicate of an existing race...particularly when the Alliance has a 95% match to that race in the form of the Void Elves. More pertinent than Ion's third restatement of their position (although the lack of snark seems to have made High Elf fans think it's possible again sadly, as their raised expectations will surely be dashed a few more times with predictable results) was Alex Afrasiabi's response to the Lost Codex question regarding Void Elf customization. In the preamble to that question, the questioner stated his opinion that Void Elves are the High Elf equivalent for the Alliance and Afrasiabi was nodding along in agreement and didn't challenge that.

Long story short, if Blizzard comes out and says something that actually supports playable High Elves being a possibility, I will take note of that.
So what if they do change their minds? That's their perogative. And it will reshape this debate if they do. But they haven't and they show no signs of doing so. But stating that 'anything is possible in future' is not stating it is a possibility, it is stating that at some point someone (not necessarily them) may change their minds. I will give no credence to a hypothetical scenario that does not exist, nor will I discount what Blizzard says on the grounds they may change their minds because that can literally be used to discredit anything they say on any topic if you don't like the answer.

[RangerDaz]

On two occasions in the past thirteen months, Blizzard was directly asked about playable High Elves as an Allied race. On both occasions, in an official capacity, they were ruled out on the grounds that Blood Elves ARE High Elves and that High Elves are already playable.

Recently at Blizzcon,someone from the pro High Elf discord approached Ion and asked him if High Elves were possible. I found this image on the Vulpera discord and I found it very illuminating.



Ion's response was pretty much the same as it was on both other occasions in that he recognised there was a passionate community (we know he knew this as in the April Q and A he joked about getting a lot of angry responses from that community). He said they weren't happening in BFA (also already known, as Void Elves would not have been developed if High Elves were planned). Most importantly though, he says they aren't ruled out forever. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID IN THE APRIL Q AND A that 'anything is possible in the future'.

It's hypothetically possible and you can't say with certainty that a choice that may not be yours to make a long time down the road will or will not be taken, but at the moment, right now, we have reinforcement upon reinforcement of their antipathy towards playable Alliance High Elves (personified in Void Elves being a thing) means their addition is very, very unlikely in the short to medium term.

Then you couple that with the fact that the cadence of Allied race additions is going to be drastically scaled back post BFA and you will enter a situation where every new Allied Race added to the game is going to a once in every two or even four year opportunity to add something new to the game. I find it very hard to believe that in such a situation, they are going to give the Alliance an effective duplicate of an existing race...particularly when the Alliance has a 95% match to that race in the form of the Void Elves. More pertinent than Ion's third restatement of their position (although the lack of snark seems to have made High Elf fans think it's possible again sadly, as their raised expectations will surely be dashed a few more times with predictable results) was Alex Afrasiabi's response to the Lost Codex question regarding Void Elf customization. In the preamble to that question, the questioner stated his opinion that Void Elves are the High Elf equivalent for the Alliance and Afrasiabi was nodding along in agreement and didn't challenge that.

Long story short, if Blizzard comes out and says something that actually supports playable High Elves being a possibility, I will take note of that.
So what if they do change their minds? That's their perogative. And it will reshape this debate if they do. But they haven't and they show no signs of doing so. But stating that 'anything is possible in future' is not stating it is a possibility, it is stating that at some point someone (not necessarily them) may change their minds. I will give no credence to a hypothetical scenario that does not exist, nor will I discount what Blizzard says on the grounds they may change their minds because that can literally be used to discredit anything they say on any topic if you don't like the answer.

Well Kai, it is exactly what he said in april yes, and what all pro high elven people have been saying as well. It would be irrealistic thinking that Blizzard would release high elves for the alliance after just releasing void elves.

Of course it wouldn't happen in Bfa, especially considering that even some announced allied races in Blizzcon 2017 won't be released until early 2019, which honestly is quite a disrespect for the community who has been waiting for Zandalari Trolls since 2017 (and also Kul Tirans since early 2018).

As i said above it seems that Blizzard has put their brakes on the allied race releases, for strategic reasons it seems. At this rate we might get 2 or 3 new allied race pairs per year.

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I have to wonder how far the thread will go. No matter what page I check, it's always the same arguments being run around in the same circle, often by the same people.

Amazing.

It happens in both sides, "no matter what page I check, it's always the same arguments being run around in the same circle". And it is true, it is always the same people, some new people do come as well

[Obelisk Kai]

Well Kai, it is exactly what he said in april yes, and what all pro high elven people have been saying as well. It would be irrealistic thinking that Blizzard would release high elves for the alliance after just releasing void elves.

Of course it wouldn't happen in Bfa, especially considering that even announced some allied races in Blizzcon 2017 won't be released until early 2019, which honestly is quite a disrespect for the community who has been waiting for Zandalari Trolls since 2017 (and also Kul Tirans since early 2018).

As i said above it seems that Blizzard has put their brakes on the allied race releases, for strategic reasons it seems. At this rate we might get 2 or 3 new allied race pairs per year.

There was clearly a difference in tone from the answer, as rather than being an impersonal answer to a large audience this was a personal interaction with a fan. There was less of the brutal honesty of the previous two answers (characterized as snark by some detractors) because upsetting a fan who is politely asking you a question by being blunt serves no purpose, so a more diplomatic and human response was appropriate.

But it is important to recognize that what he said at Blizzcon was a restatement of the Q and A, which itself was a restatement of what was said after Blizzcon 2017 and that what was said does not change the debate in any way. High Elves are no more likely now than they were three weeks ago...which is to say they remain extremely unlikely.

We have to keep in mind that Allied races will not be as added as frequently in future post BFA. I find your estimation of two or three allied race pairs per years wildly over-optimistic. That is the current cadence and has contributed to the expectation of Allied races being added as an expected feature, something they said they wish to avoid post BFA as it strips away the magic of new additions and dilutes the identity of the Horde and Alliance.

Post BFA I would argue the maximum cadence for Allied Race addition will be a pair per expansion with no guarantee that an expansion will have a pair of Allied Race at all. (which would again, set an expectation of an Allied Race even at a much lower pace).

[RangerDaz]

There was clearly a difference in tone from the answer, as rather than being an impersonal answer to a large audience this was a personal interaction with a fan. There was less of the brutal honesty of the previous two answers (characterized as snark by some detractors) because upsetting a fan who is politely asking you a question by being blunt serves no purpose, so a more diplomatic and human response was appropriate.

But it is important to recognize that what he said at Blizzcon was a restatement of the Q and A, which itself was a restatement of what was said after Blizzcon 2017 and that what was said does not change the debate in any way. High Elves are no more likely now than they were three weeks ago...which is to say they remain extremely unlikely.

We have to keep in mind that Allied races will not be as added as frequently in future post BFA. I find your estimation of two or three allied race pairs per years wildly over-optimistic. That is the current cadence and has contributed to the expectation of Allied races being added as an expected feature, something they said they wish to avoid post BFA as it strips away the magic of new additions and dilutes the identity of the Horde and Alliance.

Post BFA I would argue the maximum cadence for Allied Race addition will be a pair per expansion with no guarantee that an expansion will have a pair of Allied Race at all. (which would again, set an expectation of an Allied Race even at a much lower pace).

Well, we both have some small divergent perceptions of the situation, but it is normal and healthy for people to have different opinions

Of course an informal conversation is different from the broadcast of a Q&A, and after the backlash he received months ago, Ion wanted to try to redeem his image to that group of wow fans. But clearly the answer was the same, which honestly makes sense not releasing High Elves on the Alliance on BfA considering other options for new allied races that are still to be released (after void elves and nightborne).´

And i fully agree with you with: "High Elves are no more likely now than they were three weeks ago" to which i'll probably add in the next year or so, but also "...which is to say they remain extremely unlikely" is a conclusion that for me doesn't make much sense, because has he said they aren't ruled out, which is more than they used to say (like for example) about vanilla wow "never happening" , and now it is coming live on WoW's 15th anniversary.

I'm not sure they will stop with releasing allied races after BfA, because it is something that gives some freshness to the game, makes players happy, gives $$$$$$$ to Blizzard and requires only new art concepts with not much systems balancing effort as for example creating a new class or rebalancing all specs in every expansion or patch.

As Ion said, the future is opened. We just have to wait and see...

... And keep the high elf thread alive for the next year at least, so blizzard remembers we haven't forgotten about them

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These are not "sick fantasies", it's roleplaying in character. High Elves are traitors not only in the political sense, but they also don't honor the fallen ones, who died protecting their homeland from the Scourge. They spit on that sacrifice and rather follow their human masters as lapdogs and bitches, even though some of them tried to exterminate them in a situation where their people have been the most vulnerable.

This is really easy to understand, why a loyal Blood Elf would want to kill any High Elf on sight. The only reason to cooperate with Alleria and her ilk on Argus was the fight against the Legion, and the possibility to educate her about the traitorous Alliance.

Man, that is a very dramatic approach you do to the Silver Covenant guys's political posture in WoW It's ok, the Alliance doesn't mind adding them to their ranks, as they have done with the treacheous Void Elves!

[Alixie]

On two occasions in the past thirteen months, Blizzard was directly asked about playable High Elves as an Allied race. On both occasions, in an official capacity, they were ruled out on the grounds that Blood Elves ARE High Elves and that High Elves are already playable.

No comment on being in favor of adding another Orc race for the Alliance, or duplicates in general? Did it blow a hole in your argument that people wouldn't mind more versions of the same race, because Wildhammers would be welcomed, as they've also been requested for years.

In fact, Id rather have Wildhammers and High Elves above the other popular requests because those two fractions are and have been relevant to the plot, while races like the Pandas have an awkward presence at best. Monk class hall quest anyone? Or that their leaders Ji and Aysa were supposed to go back to the giant turtle after the orcs beat the shit out of him, but stayed in Org and Stormwind anyway?

As for Ion's comment, Im surprised that you were supposedly worried about the "negative connotations" about brown skinned High Elves, but have that comment in your signature. There's a reason why a lot of people were upset, and more than him just being rude or factually incorrect. He's implying that High Elves can only look "white"; blonde hair, blue eyes, light skin. Trolls picked up on this and claimed that Alliance players only wanted High Elves so they could play a pretty, Aryan looking race. Which is both offensive and stupid. One, because High Elves are a staple of fantasy works and people want to enjoy role playing an established race with a plethora of lore unique to them, in a damn role playing game. Two, I DO NOT want to play as a "blue eyed, blonde haired, fair skinned Blood Elf". Most of my characters, if they can be, have different shades of dark or brown skin tones. Sometimes, I wonder if the most ardent protestors of High Elves, secretly believe that stupid quote and really do want to keep the "Aryan looking race" for themselves, and dont mind purple Void Elves for this reason.

None the less, High Elves would be a rare opportunity to create an elf with brown skin tones. "But why only brown skinned elves in the Alliance?" Because heavy exposure and usage of fel/shadow magics turned Blood Elf eyes green, and their skin became super pale or ruddy. Their skin turns pure red if they become Fel Elves. Same magical reason why LF Draenai can only be "alabaster skinned", and why orcs went from having brown skin to green skin. Shades of brown skin would also make the High Elves visually stand out against Void Elves and Blood Elves, aside from hair/eyes/clothes. Brown skinned, dark haired High Elves exist in lore, but they cant exist in the game because there's no damn model for them to begin with.

[Obelisk Kai]

Well, we both have some small divergent perceptions of the situation, but it is normal and healthy for people to have different opinions

Of course an informal conversation is different from the broadcast of a Q&A, and after the backlash he received months ago, Ion wanted to try to redeem his image to that group of wow fans. But clearly the answer was the same, which honestly makes sense not releasing High Elves on the Alliance on BfA considering other options for new allied races that are still to be released (after void elves and nightborne).´

And i fully agree with you with: "High Elves are no more likely now than they were three weeks ago" to which i'll probably add in the next year or so, but also "...which is to say they remain extremely unlikely" is a conclusion that for me doesn't make much sense, because has he said they aren't ruled out, which is more than they used to say (like for example) about vanilla wow "never happening" , and now it is coming live on WoW's 15th anniversary.

I'm not sure they will stop with releasing allied races after BfA, because it is something that gives some freshness to the game, makes players happy, gives $$$$$$$ to Blizzard and requires only new art concepts with not much systems balancing effort as for example creating a new class or rebalancing all specs in every expansion or patch.

As Ion said, the future is opened. We just have to wait and see...

... And keep the high elf thread alive for the next year at least, so blizzard remembers we haven't forgotten about them

I do of course disagree with your conclusions. From the snippet of the image I found on the Vulpera discord, it appears the pro High Elf community is drawing the wrong message from the fan interaction.

While we both agree he restated what he said in the Q and A, albeit in a softer manner, it is mistakenly being seen as a retraction of what was said and that High Elves are again a potential candidate. I have no doubt that as a consequence this thread will flair up in the run up to Blizzcon 2019 and the revelation of the next expansion because, with 9.0 being the end of the BFA cycle and the beginning of something new, it is the first opportunity Blizzard will have to introduce playable Alliance High Elves. And as always happens on this topic, too many will take the words as an implicit promise.

I did not say they will stop adding Allied races, but they were clear in a previous Q and A that they don't want to over-do the addition of Allied races to the game. Doing so turns a feature that should generate considerable buzz and excitement into a rote, expected part of any patch, similar to getting a new raid or a dungeon. Not to mention they were clear that too many options would risk devaluing the identities of the Horde and Alliance by stretching them too thin. Instead, what I am reiterating is what they said would happen, the pace of Allied race addition will slow down a lot. I would not be surprised if not a single allied race is added in the 9.0 cycle simply to give us a respite, and after that they will be used more sparingly.

Trying to tie the rejection of High Elves to this patch cycle is reaching of course. Saying that High Elves were unlikely after Void Elves implies that after a sufficient period of time has passed, Blizzard will look with a fresh eye upon High Elves. The problem with this approach is that it glosses over several critical points, the most important of which is that High Elves were already examined and rejected. Void Elves were clearly created to be a thalassian elf for the Alliance that did not breach the faction wall between Alliance and Horde, nor damage the integrity of the Blood Elves as the true High Elves of the Warcraft universe.

If High Elves were ever considered again, all the issues that led to them being rejected in the first place are still going to be there even if BFA has ended. And one of the consequences of the Void Elf compromise is that Void Elves themselves now constitute a barrier to playable High Elves since their express purpose was to be a version of a High Elf that you could play with the Alliance. Void Elves are still going to be a thing after BFA, just as Blood Elves are.

The truth is the moment to add High Elves, if they were ever going to add them, was at the same moment they announced the system to us at Blizzcon 2017. Before Void Elves were a thing and as part of the BFA Allied Race splurge when a multitude of new playable races are being added. That Void Elves were created instead at the absolutely perfect moment to add them is so very telling.

While anything is possible in the future, the future is circumscribed by the choices made in the present. The existence of playable Blood Elves proved an insuperable barrier to Alliance High Elves the first time around. Now, they have both Blood AND Void Elves to consider. And with Allied races confirmed to becoming rarer in future not only will High Elves have to deal with being identical to Blood Elves, not only do they have to deal with Void Elves taking their spot, not only do they have to deal with an elf fatigue that seems pretty much a permanent fixture of discussions going forwards (with four elf choices, a very large chunk of the community appears to be elfed out) but they have to deal with the issue that has cropped up around Mecha Gnomes. That High Elves, a duplicate of an existing Horde race, who already have an Alliance based variant, could take a race slot that will occur only once every two or four years. Into that spot could conceivably go something far newer, fresher or more interesting and which would not generate the level of backlash.

Given all those factors, if Allied race addition becomes as rare as promised, the idea that Blizzard could justify High Elves seems extremely far fetched.

[RangerDaz]

I do of course disagree with your conclusions. From the snippet of the image I found on the Vulpera discord, it appears the pro High Elf community is drawing the wrong message from the fan interaction.

While we both agree he restated what he said in the Q and A, albeit in a softer manner, it is mistakenly being seen as a retraction of what was said and that High Elves are again a potential candidate. I have no doubt that as a consequence this thread will flair up in the run up to Blizzcon 2019 and the revelation of the next expansion because, with 9.0 being the end of the BFA cycle and the beginning of something new, it is the first opportunity Blizzard will have to introduce playable Alliance High Elves. And as always happens on this topic, too many will take the words as an implicit promise.

I did not say they will stop adding Allied races, but they were clear in a previous Q and A that they don't want to over-do the addition of Allied races to the game. Doing so turns a feature that should generate considerable buzz and excitement into a rote, expected part of any patch, similar to getting a new raid or a dungeon. Not to mention they were clear that too many options would risk devaluing the identities of the Horde and Alliance by stretching them too thin. Instead, what I am reiterating is what they said would happen, the pace of Allied race addition will slow down a lot. I would not be surprised if not a single allied race is added in the 9.0 cycle simply to give us a respite, and after that they will be used more sparingly.

Trying to tie the rejection of High Elves to this patch cycle is reaching of course. Saying that High Elves were unlikely after Void Elves implies that after a sufficient period of time has passed, Blizzard will look with a fresh eye upon High Elves. The problem with this approach is that it glosses over several critical points, the most important of which is that High Elves were already examined and rejected. Void Elves were clearly created to be a thalassian elf for the Alliance that did not breach the faction wall between Alliance and Horde, nor damage the integrity of the Blood Elves as the true High Elves of the Warcraft universe.

If High Elves were ever considered again, all the issues that led to them being rejected in the first place are still going to be there even if BFA has ended. And one of the consequences of the Void Elf compromise is that Void Elves themselves now constitute a barrier to playable High Elves since their express purpose was to be a version of a High Elf that you could play with the Alliance. Void Elves are still going to be a thing after BFA, just as Blood Elves are.

The truth is the moment to add High Elves, if they were ever going to add them, was at the same moment they announced the system to us at Blizzcon 2017. Before Void Elves were a thing and as part of the BFA Allied Race splurge when a multitude of new playable races are being added. That Void Elves were created instead at the absolutely perfect moment to add them is so very telling.

While anything is possible in the future, the future is circumscribed by the choices made in the present. The existence of playable Blood Elves proved an insuperable barrier to Alliance High Elves the first time around. Now, they have both Blood AND Void Elves to consider. And with Allied races confirmed to becoming rarer in future not only will High Elves have to deal with being identical to Blood Elves, not only do they have to deal with Void Elves taking their spot, not only do they have to deal with an elf fatigue that seems pretty much a permanent fixture of discussions going forwards (with four elf choices, a very large chunk of the community appears to be elfed out) but they have to deal with the issue that has cropped up around Mecha Gnomes. That High Elves, a duplicate of an existing Horde race, who already have an Alliance based variant, could take a race slot that will occur only once every two or four years. Into that spot could conceivably go something far newer, fresher or more interesting and which would not generate the level of backlash.

Given all those factors, if Allied race addition becomes as rare as promised, the idea that Blizzard could justify High Elves seems extremely far fetched.

Points of view are what they are... personal points of view

I have a different (and much more positively charged) point of view related to the future of allied races. Blizzard isn't blind to acknowledge what their playerbase wants. And if large numbers want something, there is a big probability they might consider it in the future.

Void Elves and High Elves (mostly represented ingame by the Silver Covenant Elves) aren't incompatible to coexist, because they are totally different concepts of Quel'thalas elves that evolved in different ways. They can easily create a helpful and meanful alliance as both their leaders are sisters! (Alleria and Vereesa)

Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves (again mostly represented ingame by the Silver Covenant Elves) aren't incompatible to coexist either, as we saw in the Suramar liberation questline, for example, or in the eternal Sunreavers vs. Silver Covenant feud. They just need to add some cosmetic differences, as this thread is filled with suggestions. They don't need to be duplicates of the Blood Elves, as we see in all the suggestions of pro high elf people, or as we see the silver covenant npcs ingame.

Allied Races will also be released in cycles. When the first cycle of planned races are released, then High Elves and other desired races like Wildhammer or Northrend Dwarves, Forest Trolls, etc (that are somewhat a repitition an existing allied race) will/might have their time to come live as well.

Also the rejection argument isn't valid for eternity. Just because one thing is rejected today, can be accepted tomorrow. Again, WoW Classic is an example of it.


PS: Are you a lawyer? Because you surely write like one

[Obelisk Kai]

No comment on being in favor of adding another Orc race for the Alliance, or duplicates in general? Did it blow a hole in your argument that people wouldn't mind more versions of the same race, because Wildhammers would be welcomed, as they've also been requested for years.

Actually earlier I had somewhat limited time to compose a response. My point regarding duplicates was that given Blood Elves and High Elves are identical, albeit divided by a political opinion, those in favour of adding High Elves are trying to turn any nuance into a justification for them to be playable no matter how small, including the idea that because they are somehow nobler (a point so subjective it really cannot be given credence) it counts as a differentiating factor. In reality, physical duplicates are ruled out as they are literally a waste of a space.

In regards to Wildhammers, that is a matter for the Alliance. There is no Horde race or theme for an Alliance Wildhammer Dwarf race to intrude upon, as such I don't care.

As for Ion's comment, Im surprised that you were supposedly worried about the "negative connotations" about brown skinned High Elves, but have that comment in your signature. There's a reason why a lot of people were upset, and more than him just being rude or factually incorrect. He's implying that High Elves can only look "white"; blonde hair, blue eyes, light skin. Trolls picked up on this and claimed that Alliance players only wanted High Elves so they could play a pretty, Aryan looking race. Which is both offensive and stupid. One, because High Elves are a staple of fantasy works and people want to enjoy role playing an established race with a plethora of lore unique to them, in a damn role playing game. Two, I DO NOT want to play as a "blue eyed, blonde haired, fair skinned Blood Elf". Most of my characters, if they can be, have different shades of dark or brown skin tones. Sometimes, I wonder if the most ardent protestors of High Elves, secretly believe that stupid quote and really do want to keep the "Aryan looking race" for themselves, and dont mind purple Void Elves for this reason.

The negative connotations, boiled down crudely, are that all the dark skinned elves were kicked out of Silvermoon. But, and this is a critical point, the thing about brown or black skinned elves is that as far as we know, they don't exist as portrayed. I am not against them being added, but every Elf is a variant of having some sort of fair skin. The only evidence presented for the existence of a dark skinned elf is an individual described as such in an alternative timeline, but we do not know precisely what was meant by that. Dark skinned could be relatively to other Elves for example, or it could be one of the ruddier skin tones that Blood Elves have access too.

As for the belief that Ion was wrong, I have to disagree. Too many commentators currently with the pro High Elf community argued in favour of giving the Void Elves 'High Elf' like customizations for anyone to pretend it was primarily about the lore. Some people care about the lore. You seem to be one of them. Those who care about the lore are being used a respectable fig leaf for those who really do just want the blonde hair, blue eyed and light skinned elf look on the Alliance. Had they achieved that on Void Elves, and given the reaction from some quarters to Afrasiabi's comments they still hope to, they would drop those looking for a lore based Alliance High Elf like a hot potato.

As for High Elves being a staple of other fantasy works, what other fantasy works do has no bearing on WoW. In this fantasy universe the High Elves left the Human led Alliance, changed their named, and joined the Orcish Horde. The Blood Elves are the inheritors of the lore of the High Elves, they are the High Elves of the Warcraft Universe, and they should not be undermined by another, far smaller group that would usurp that role. This is why I oppose Alliance High Elves, not because I want to monopolize the 'aryan' look, but because the Alliance High Elf would try and define itself as the true High Elf of the Warcraft story. Void Elves will never threaten the integrity of Blood Elves that way. This is why they are acceptable as a compromise and High Elves are not.

[FlubberPuddy]

I do of course disagree with your conclusions. From the snippet of the image I found on the Vulpera discord, it appears the pro High Elf community is drawing the wrong message from the fan interaction.

While we both agree he restated what he said in the Q and A, albeit in a softer manner, it is mistakenly being seen as a retraction of what was said and that High Elves are again a potential candidate. I have no doubt that as a consequence this thread will flair up in the run up to Blizzcon 2019 and the revelation of the next expansion because, with 9.0 being the end of the BFA cycle and the beginning of something new, it is the first opportunity Blizzard will have to introduce playable Alliance High Elves. And as always happens on this topic, too many will take the words as an implicit promise.

While I agree that there are some crazed High Elf fans with too high of expectations, I mean the literal question asked by the fan was hope HE are considered for the next expac (which personally to me may be too soon still, but w/e not the point) but the reply by Ion in saying "yeah they won't be in BFA but that doesn't mean they'll never be in wow ever" and "the door hasn't closed" those are both 2 literal utterances that mean: High Elves have a chance of happening.

This is a change from the previous Q/A answer where players were told to play Blood Elves to get their High Elf fix. I'm not sure how it isn't a change in this regard. As stated above, no longer are High Elf fans expected to be content with the "flavors of High Elves" that are available.

The answer provided by Ion here, while the result is the same: no High Elves in BFA, implies that later on there is a possibility of them happening whereas as once before many of those against High Elves were saying "oh it's just a platitude that Ion said, nothing will come of this". The man has literally said "the door hasn't closed" wherein the response in April felt like a shut down of the request.

I did not say they will stop adding Allied races, but they were clear in a previous Q and A that they don't want to over-do the addition of Allied races to the game. Doing so turns a feature that should generate considerable buzz and excitement into a rote, expected part of any patch, similar to getting a new raid or a dungeon. Not to mention they were clear that too many options would risk devaluing the identities of the Horde and Alliance by stretching them too thin. Instead, what I am reiterating is what they said would happen, the pace of Allied race addition will slow down a lot. I would not be surprised if not a single allied race is added in the 9.0 cycle simply to give us a respite, and after that they will be used more sparingly.

Trying to tie the rejection of High Elves to this patch cycle is reaching of course. Saying that High Elves were unlikely after Void Elves implies that after a sufficient period of time has passed, Blizzard will look with a fresh eye upon High Elves. The problem with this approach is that it glosses over several critical points, the most important of which is that High Elves were already examined and rejected. Void Elves were clearly created to be a thalassian elf for the Alliance that did not breach the faction wall between Alliance and Horde, nor damage the integrity of the Blood Elves as the true High Elves of the Warcraft universe.

It is not reaching at all, because it is very easily deduced that the addition of a 2nd thalassian elf will not allow in the same expansion the addition of a 3rd thalassian elf. You would have to be someone that truly believes they would then add a 3rd human variant, or a 3rd orc variant in BFA in order to say that "it is reaching". Just like when the 2nd Undead variant comes around in BFA (if it does) it will not be San'layn. 100% guaranteed it won't. That would be the 3rd Thalassian elf variant within 1 expansion. It is actually "reaching" to not think this isn't the case.

If High Elves were ever considered again, all the issues that led to them being rejected in the first place are still going to be there even if BFA has ended. And one of the consequences of the Void Elf compromise is that Void Elves themselves now constitute a barrier to playable High Elves since their express purpose was to be a version of a High Elf that you could play with the Alliance. Void Elves are still going to be a thing after BFA, just as Blood Elves are.

The truth is the moment to add High Elves, if they were ever going to add them, was at the same moment they announced the system to us at Blizzcon 2017. Before Void Elves were a thing and as part of the BFA Allied Race splurge when a multitude of new playable races are being added. That Void Elves were created instead at the absolutely perfect moment to add them is so very telling.

This is simply not true. Note this said by Ion in the April Q/A it seems a lot of people missed: "When we add an Allied Race, there's a desire to have things be even more distinct especially between the two factions with the faction conflict being so prominent."

Ion is literally saying that in the expansion of faction conflict (BFA) they want to have really distinct AR. He is saying what a lot of others have at some point said: It is better to come out with something much more distinct in flavor visually (Void Elves) than something similar (High Elves). This is also why Dark Iron Dwarves were chosen over Wildhammer Dwarves.

What you are implying here Obelisk just doesn't hold up to other AR under the same scrutiny. Wildhammer Dwarves are another AR that can be reduced to, "already playable dwarves with just tattoos slapped on them" yet we know recent word with Jeremy Feasel is that they know there are fans of Wildhammers out there and they come up with some cool ideas on how to implement them.

The scrutiny that was held to Wildhammer which led to adding Dark Iron over them, which is the same scrutiny you're saying about High Elves in the addition of Void Elves, doesn't hold up.

Multiple dev responses from this Blizzcon show that Blizzard isn't adverse to adding more similar variants of the existing races and that the 3rd addition of a variant isn't seen as negative either.

It is all within the context of expansions. Which makes sense, created a future forward system like Allied Races and come out with races that are the more different variations first.

While anything is possible in the future, the future is circumscribed by the choices made in the present. The existence of playable Blood Elves proved an insuperable barrier to Alliance High Elves the first time around. Now, they have both Blood AND Void Elves to consider. And with Allied races confirmed to becoming rarer in future not only will High Elves have to deal with being identical to Blood Elves, not only do they have to deal with Void Elves taking their spot, not only do they have to deal with an elf fatigue that seems pretty much a permanent fixture of discussions going forwards (with four elf choices, a very large chunk of the community appears to be elfed out) but they have to deal with the issue that has cropped up around Mecha Gnomes. That High Elves, a duplicate of an existing Horde race, who already have an Alliance based variant, could take a race slot that will occur only once every two or four years. Into that spot could conceivably go something far newer, fresher or more interesting and which would not generate the level of backlash.

Given all those factors, if Allied race addition becomes as rare as promised, the idea that Blizzard could justify High Elves seems extremely far fetched.

You are trying to imply that even though there has been a change in tone and overall answer (aka no more being told to play Blood Elves) that Blizzard will continue to add only wholly distinct races to the game (due to AR being more rare in release rate) and that this in effect will give you your desired outcome that High Elves will actually never be.

Again, look merely to Ion's response to Raven: "that doesn't mean they'll never be in wow ever" and "the door hasn't closed". You assume (or you hope) that even though they gave "more of a chance" answer that it'll never come to reality anyway because they'll be adding wholly distinct races at the lower rate of AR additions.

We know this is false as Wildhammers have been called out by Jeremy Feasel as a cool chance of happening. A race that is "just a dwarf with some blue tattoos" that many opposed to keep using the same types of arguments for that we see here with High Elves. "They are too similar to existing dwarves" "just slap tattoos on existing dwarves they'd be a waste of a race slot". I bring up Wildhammer because the way Blizzard handles adding Wildhammer will give insight into how they may handle adding High Elves.

[Obelisk Kai]

Points of view are what they are... personal points of view

I have a different (and much more positively charged) point of view related to the future of allied races. Blizzard isn't blind to acknowledge what their playerbase wants. And if large numbers want something, there is a big probability they might consider it in the future.

Void Elves and High Elves (mostly represented ingame by the Silver Covenant Elves) aren't incompatible to coexist, because they are totally different concepts of Quel'thalas elves that evolved in different ways. They can easily create a helpful and meanful alliance as both their leaders are sisters! (Alleria and Vereesa)

Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves (again mostly represented ingame by the Silver Covenant Elves) aren't incompatible to coexist either, as we saw in the Suramar liberation questline, for example, or in the eternal Sunreavers vs. Silver Covenant feud. They just need to add some cosmetic differences, as this thread is filled with suggestions. They don't need to be duplicates of the Blood Elves, as we see in all the suggestions of pro high elf people, or as we see the silver covenant npcs ingame.

Allied Races will also be released in cycles. When the first cycle of planned races are released, then High Elves and other desired races like Wildhammer or Northrend Dwarves, Forest Trolls, etc (that are somewhat a repitition an existing allied race) will/might have their time to come live as well.

Also the rejection argument isn't valid for eternity. Just because one thing is rejected today, can be accepted tomorrow. Again, WoW Classic is an example of it.


PS: Are you a lawyer? Because you surely write like one

I am not a lawyer, I work for an insurance company.

Whilst people wanting something helps Blizzard decide on a course of action, it is not the be all and end all of discussion. Were everything subject to a popular vote, we would all be flying right now in BFA and would have been from the moment we entered the expansion, or at least those of us who had deigned to return from WoW Classic's seventh anniversary celebrations would have been flying.

It is true Blizzard is not blind to what their playerbase wants, the forums do serve a purpose and are read. But sometimes a request has further ramifications behind the personal gratification of an individual player or even a group. As is the case with High Elves.

I believe it is certain that High Elves were among the first Allied Races considered, maybe even the very first. Ion's comment in early 2014 spitballing ideas about sub-races that became the Allied race system had him talking about High Elves and Mag'har Orcs, two very popular requests. So they weren't blind at all. They knew.
And despite that, Alliance High Elves were rejected. And they told us why they were rejected, the reasons I knew they would be rejected on. That as Blood Elves are High Elves, High Elves are merely duplicate.

For all the bad people say about Void Elves, at least they are a credible variant.

And Daz, stating Allied races will be released in cycles is incorrect. Check the Q and A for June 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AVTzRatRcY

Second question about two minutes twenty seconds in where they are asked whether Allied Races are just a BFA system.

Ion responsed we will see Allied races in future, but it's a centerpiece of BFA as part of the story is gathering up allies for our war with each other and that it will be cool for meeting awesome new allies post BFA and bring them in.

However, after praising the tool, he added a qualifier 'that said, I do want to note that we're not thinking of this as something that as we get past Battle for Azeroth we need to check off...like alright what's gonna be the allied race for this patch? We don't want it to be going down a road where five years from now there are thirty races to choose among and we're just kind of coming up with things not because it makes sense for the story but because we feel like we need to add new Allied races...'

In other words, this is not the first Allied race cycle and that as soon as it is done, they are going to go back and start again and add other variants. They are pushing it now because it is such a core feature of BFA, but after this it looks to me that Allied races are going to become rare and special. And it looks like that to me because that is what they pretty much said.

And with Allied races becoming so much rarer in future, I don't see them blowing it on a choice that is already available in two flavours and which carries so much baggage.

[FlubberPuddy]

And with Allied races becoming so much rarer in future, I don't see them blowing it on a choice that is already available in two flavours and which carries so much baggage.

I'm of the belief if Wildhammer fans can look forward to seeing Wildhammers at some point playable on Alliance, then High Elf fans too.

If going forward the AR are going to be so much more rare, then Blizzard could go in the direction of actually selecting what is really popular and adding those. Because if AR are going to be so much more rare and they ask the community for feedback, then really unpopular choices are going to feel even more like a waste.

Since right now is their moment of adding "much more varied" AR, because sky's the limit for BFA.

I'm sure next Blizzcon they will wrap up the rest of the AR they had planned for BFA.

[RangerDaz]

I am not a lawyer, I work for an insurance company.

Whilst people wanting something helps Blizzard decide on a course of action, it is not the be all and end all of discussion. Were everything subject to a popular vote, we would all be flying right now in BFA and would have been from the moment we entered the expansion, or at least those of us who had deigned to return from WoW Classic's seventh anniversary celebrations would have been flying.

It is true Blizzard is not blind to what their playerbase wants, the forums do serve a purpose and are read. But sometimes a request has further ramifications behind the personal gratification of an individual player or even a group. As is the case with High Elves.

I believe it is certain that High Elves were among the first Allied Races considered, maybe even the very first. Ion's comment in early 2014 spitballing ideas about sub-races that became the Allied race system had him talking about High Elves and Mag'har Orcs, two very popular requests. So they weren't blind at all. They knew.
And despite that, Alliance High Elves were rejected. And they told us why they were rejected, the reasons I knew they would be rejected on. That as Blood Elves are High Elves, High Elves are merely duplicate.

For all the bad people say about Void Elves, at least they are a credible variant.

And Daz, stating Allied races will be released in cycles is incorrect. Check the Q and A for June 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AVTzRatRcY

Second question about two minutes twenty seconds in where they are asked whether Allied Races are just a BFA system.

Ion responsed we will see Allied races in future, but it's a centerpiece of BFA as part of the story is gathering up allies for our war with each other and that it will be cool for meeting awesome new allies post BFA and bring them in.

However, after praising the tool, he added a qualifier 'that said, I do want to note that we're not thinking of this as something that as we get past Battle for Azeroth we need to check off...like alright what's gonna be the allied race for this patch? We don't want it to be going down a road where five years from now there are thirty races to choose among and we're just kind of coming up with things not because it makes sense for the story but because we feel like we need to add new Allied races...'

In other words, this is not the first Allied race cycle and that as soon as it is done, they are going to go back and start again and add other variants. They are pushing it now because it is such a core feature of BFA, but after this it looks to me that Allied races are going to become rare and special. And it looks like that to me because that is what they pretty much said.

And with Allied races becoming so much rarer in future, I don't see them blowing it on a choice that is already available in two flavours and which carries so much baggage.

Well, in my engineer vision everything is possible, as long as there is will (and money... and time) to achieve it.

I don't regret them adding Void Elves. I got two atm, a warlock and a hunter, which i don't intend to change anytime soon, because both look cool. I think lorewise the Silver Covenant would be an interesting addition to the ranks of the Alliance, as the San'layn would be for the horde, but i do get why people now say "no more elves!", when different races like ogres/mok'nathal or Sethrak/Vulpera haven't been added yet. Because clearly some more urgent races are still waiting to be released.

While i agree that the release rate or Allied races will decrease (Zandalari Trolls is a good example of it), i'm not sure they will or should stop after BfA. Of course they don't want hundreds of different races. But honestly, can we count as totally different races the Tauren and Highmountain Tauren? Draenei and Lightforged Draenei? Orcs and Mag'har Orcs? I could go on, but Allied Races seem to be a replica of the normal races of wow, which don't really destroy the identity.

Check for example Orcs vs Mag'har Orcs & Dwarves vs. Dark Iron Dwarves vs other Dwarf races like Wildhammer, Frostborn, Earthern or Irons.

Orc playable race represent the Orgrimmar Orcs (the remaining orc clans united by Thrall) and Dwarf playable race represents Ironforge Dwarves, aka Bronzebeard clan, aka a SINGLE clan.

Dark Iron Dwarves are also another SINGLE dwarf CLAN, but the Mag'har Orcs are ALL remaining orc CLANS from Draenor, aka Frostwolves, Warsong, Burning Blade, etc.

If Blizzard released Wildhammer, frostborn, earthern and iron dwarves, if joined together with dark iron and bronzebeard would it be the same as merging the playable Orcs and Mag'har Orcs, as they clearly represent almost all existing orc clans (except the Dragonmaw)?

Im sure that Blizzard wouldn't lose an identity ot have multiple types of dwarves, as they clearly already have with Orcs. Blizzard stated that they originally thought on releasing seperately the orc clans, but then realized it wouldn't be viable, and im glad they didn't.

Blizzard really needs to know what they want. Having multiple different types of races is clearly different than having 10 races in each faction with multiple subraces (like the maghar). With this comparison, releasing High Elves and Sanlayn would also be somewhat the same principle of the Mag'har and the wildhammer. Do note that Wildhammer are also on the potential to do list of Blizzard, according to one of their PR guys (can't remember the name).

- - - Updated - - -

I'm of the belief if Wildhammer fans can look forward to seeing Wildhammers at some point playable on Alliance, then High Elf fans too.

If going forward the AR are going to be so much more rare, then Blizzard could go in the direction of actually selecting what is really popular and adding those. Because if AR are going to be so much more rare and they ask the community for feedback, then really unpopular choices are going to feel even more like a waste.

Since right now is their moment of adding "much more varied" AR, because sky's the limit for BFA.

I'm sure next Blizzcon they will wrap up the rest of the AR they had planned for BFA.

I agree Wildhammers have a good chance on becoming playable. Although for me the frostborn, earthern and iron dwarves have more potential of cooler skins, just like the dark irons have today. And I also believe that High Elves have just a too big fanbase for Blizzard to ignore them. Sanlayn as well.

[FlubberPuddy]

Blizzard really needs to know what they want. Having multiple different types of races is clearly different than having 10 races in each faction with multiple subraces (like the maghar). With this comparison, releasing High Elves and Sanlayn would also be somewhat the same principle of the Mag'har and the wildhammer. Do note that Wildhammer are also on the potential to do list of Blizzard, according to one of their PR guys (can't remember the name).

That PR guy is Jeremy Feasel. He's also noted the popularity of High Elves as well (through those Twitter DMs a while back).

I agree Wildhammers have a good chance on becoming playable. Although for me the frostborn, earthern and iron dwarves have more potential of cooler skins, just like the dark irons have today. And I also believe that High Elves have just a too big fanbase for Blizzard to ignore them. Sanlayn as well.

I agree, it'd be awesome to see iron dwarves. Honestly Blizzard should deal with "clan races" as they did with the Mag'har. Introduce them into 1 race. But actually after typing that, maybe their racials and such would be wayyy too different. Mag'har Orcs are various clans but they still exhibit same Orc culture. While Green Orcs also exhibit same Orc culture their racials tend slightly toward emphasizing their demon blood background.

But yeah, High Elves from what I've seen have been a popular request for years which at times have been acknowledged by Blizzard. They would surely be a positive addition to the game. Alliance players can be happy to finally have playable a race always among them and a stalwart companion at that.

[RangerDaz]

That PR guy is Jeremy Feasel. He's also noted the popularity of High Elves as well (through those Twitter DMs a while back).



I agree, it'd be awesome to see iron dwarves. Honestly Blizzard should deal with "clan races" as they did with the Mag'har. Introduce them into 1 race. But actually after typing that, maybe their racials and such would be wayyy too different. Mag'har Orcs are various clans but they still exhibit same Orc culture. While Green Orcs also exhibit same Orc culture their racials tend slightly toward emphasizing their demon blood background.

But yeah, High Elves from what I've seen have been a popular request for years which at times have been acknowledged by Blizzard. They would surely be a positive addition to the game. Alliance players can be happy to finally have playable a race always among them and a stalwart companion at that.

Ah thanks! i didn't remember he name.

Maybe the dwarf clans would have different racials, yes, but honestly, so would the Mag'har. What does a Blackrock Orc have to do with a Frostwolf Orc? They don't have much in common besides the standard Blood and Honor tradition, and yet they have the same racials.

Maybe they could do Wildhammer and Northrend Dwarves seperately, because they are really different from each other, but still i think they could merge the Frostborn, Earthern and Iron Dwarves in the same slot, just like they did with the Maghar.

And with this kind of concept, they surely could apply it to the High Elves and Sanlayn as well, i believe, and people wouldn't say the "no more elves" meme.

[FlubberPuddy]

Ah thanks! i didn't remember he name.

Maybe the dwarf clans would have different racials, yes, but honestly, so would the Mag'har. What does a Blackrock Orc have to do with a Frostwolf Orc? They don't have much in common besides the standard Blood and Honor tradition, and yet they have the same racials.

Maybe they could do Wildhammer and Northrend Dwarves seperately, because they are really different from each other, but still i think they could merge the Frostborn, Earthern and Iron Dwarves in the same slot, just like they did with the Maghar.

And with this kind of concept, they surely could apply it to the High Elves and Sanlayn as well, i believe, and people wouldn't say the "no more elves" meme.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how they handle the system going forward and what additional depth they will add to character creation and customization. Right now they're pumping out AR since it's a flagship feature for BFA. They will be more careful with it going forward at a reduced rate.

The "no more elves" meme is only a meme right now because we still have 4 remaining races (Goblins, Worgen, Gnomes, Undead) without their AR counterparts. Once that's fleshed out Elves will go back to having equal amount of choices per side (2).

Besides, the whole "how many more elves are needed" flies in the face of the AR system has a whole which is already a bunch of rehashes. These people likely want only unique races unlike anything that already exists as playable, but as said that isn't the precedent the AR system has set at all. Plus Blizzard hasn't said they're not going to do regular new races anymore either I believe so that's probably where wholly unique models will come from.

Overall just way too much up in the air, I think we'll have a better idea once Blizzard rounds out the AR for BFA. Right now they've only released races which are safe and similar to existing options.

[Garfurion]

Ah thanks! i didn't remember he name.

Maybe the dwarf clans would have different racials, yes, but honestly, so would the Mag'har. What does a Blackrock Orc have to do with a Frostwolf Orc? They don't have much in common besides the standard Blood and Honor tradition, and yet they have the same racials.

Maybe they could do Wildhammer and Northrend Dwarves seperately, because they are really different from each other, but still i think they could merge the Frostborn, Earthern and Iron Dwarves in the same slot, just like they did with the Maghar.

And with this kind of concept, they surely could apply it to the High Elves and Sanlayn as well, i believe, and people wouldn't say the "no more elves" meme.

I think Mag'har racials were chosen to be general enough to apply to the common culture of all clans, they even seem applicable to "green" Orcs.

It would feel a bit weird though if races with completely different backgrounds such as High Elves and San'layn have to share racials.

Based on racial abilities Wildhammers should become an Allied Race rather than a skin customization option for Bronzebeards so it will be interesting to see how Blizzard values racials when they implement "playable" Wildhammer Dwarves.

[RangerDaz]

I think Mag'har racials were chosen to be general enough to apply to the common culture of all clans, they even seem applicable to "green" Orcs.

It would feel a bit weird though if races with completely different backgrounds such as High Elves and San'layn have to share racials.

Based on racial abilities Wildhammers should become an Allied Race rather than a skin customization option for Bronzebeards so it will be interesting to see how Blizzard values racials when they implement "playable" Wildhammer Dwarves.

Well, High Elves and San'layn couldn't share racials, especially as i would consider them the allied race pair to be released together, one for the horde, and one for the alliance. I'm sorry about that sentence, because it is confusing at first, yes.

And i would also agree to give Wildhammer skins to the Bronzebeards and give the Northrend Dwarves the next allied race slot could one possibility, but in the end, is the High Elf thread and not dwarf thread. I just brought them in with the orc clans for comparison purposes.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how they handle the system going forward and what additional depth they will add to character creation and customization. Right now they're pumping out AR since it's a flagship feature for BFA. They will be more careful with it going forward at a reduced rate.

The "no more elves" meme is only a meme right now because we still have 4 remaining races (Goblins, Worgen, Gnomes, Undead) without their AR counterparts. Once that's fleshed out Elves will go back to having equal amount of choices per side (2).

Besides, the whole "how many more elves are needed" flies in the face of the AR system has a whole which is already a bunch of rehashes. These people likely want only unique races unlike anything that already exists as playable, but as said that isn't the precedent the AR system has set at all. Plus Blizzard hasn't said they're not going to do regular new races anymore either I believe so that's probably where wholly unique models will come from.

Overall just way too much up in the air, I think we'll have a better idea once Blizzard rounds out the AR for BFA. Right now they've only released races which are safe and similar to existing options.

Well, i think that Void Elves weren't a safe bet, and they clearly saw the backlash about Void Elves vs. High Elves. They also saw also other backlashes like of the anti-vulpera people, and that is why they haven't announced them as playable yet. They know they opened a box of pandora with allied races and players always have strong feelings about playable races (see for example the reaction to pandaren).

They are playing safe now, by reducing all the hype about allied races. It is sad because that was the main feature as BfA selling point and now they keep the next ones a closed secret only to reveal when they want to. And honestly maybe they really should do it, because what they are doing with the constant delay of playable Zandalari Trolls / Kul Tirans is unaceptable.

[FlubberPuddy]

Well, i think that Void Elves weren't a safe bet, and they clearly saw the backlash about Void Elves vs. High Elves. They also saw also other backlashes like of the anti-vulpera people, and that is why they haven't announced them as playable yet. They know they opened a box of pandora with allied races and players always have strong feelings about playable races (see for example the reaction to pandaren).

They are playing safe now, by reducing all the hype about allied races. It is sad because that was the main feature as BfA selling point and now they keep the next ones a closed secret only to reveal when they want to. And honestly maybe they really should do it, because what they are doing with the constant delay of playable Zandalari Trolls / Kul Tirans is unaceptable.

Sorry, I meant "safe" as in pretty much so far is similar to the races we already have playable. For instance we don't yet have Vulpera who would be an actual new race that isn't playable. We have things we've already seen are available: humans, elves, orcs, tauren, etc.

And yeah I agree, it created a sort of precedent where people took the idea and ran with it, thinking almost every race can be an Allied Race. Though to be fair, I'm sure Blizzard is happy that players love the feature so much, it just sucks that they do have to rein in expectations now that they're tapering down the rate.

It is also unfortunate how long the wait for Zandalari/KulTiran has been too yeah. almost a quarter of the expansion will be live before the majority can get their hands on em. I feel like there should be a better pacing here, but I'm okay with having to wait to unlock them until after we get their story. It is just weird that we help both their main stories with the first main quests here, but it won't be until the BoD raid that they join up officially.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

"Look sexy on mog" was confirmed when a multitude of high elf fans were happy with the possibility of void elfs getting high elf customization (following Alex's comment). IF it were about the lore, the vast majority of high elf fans would have opposed this idea. Instead, only a small minority don't like the idea as opposed to the many who would be happy with a high elf skin for void elfs. That my friend, suggests it was always about the aesthetics (and subsequently the xmog). So how about look at the whole picture before tooting your horn.

Come on, now you are just generalized based on the opinion of some High Elf fans. How is that fair? Like for example I am down for added HE customization on VE's ONLY if it has the lore reason of actual High Elves joining the Void Elves, because I feel it sufficiently follows up High Elven lore.

Yet you come here throwing majority and minority as if you had any sort of metrics to say "what really High elves fans want" and that is tremendously disingenous. Do try to make your points without generalizing the other side.

FACTION WAR in this game has PREDOMINANTLY been race based, not political. Politics have always been an aside. The RTS series literally started as orcs vs humans (ie race vs race). It then expanded on several other races in WCIII and subsequently WoW. Yes, there are some politics behind the scenes... but you are delusional if you think faction war has nothing to do with races. In the case of high elfs, they already exist in the Horde. There is a small subset of high elfs in the Alliance, with differing views to their kin in the Horde... but the fact that Blizz specifically introduced void elfs shows that even they agree that races are a major factor that divide the factions.. not politics.

Politics being an "aside" on the faction War... on a game that races join to each faction for political and ideological reasons. Come on dude. The racial divide is arbitrary when we keep seeing races on the narrative joining both sides.

Even Void Elves are on the alliance because of Ideological and Political reasons! That they look different is the stupid workaround to an issue that shouldn't even be. The worst is that VE are still just Blood Elves... with different politics and ideologies, but the same culture. The only thing is they look different.

If Void Elves were made out of High Elves, I would have been far happier. I don't agree with the "blurring factions" idea, but if it is choice they want to keep, they should at least found better established lore reasons for a group of playable thalassian elves on the alliance instead of the lorelol that were Void Elves.