1. #8041
    Titan Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    This was solved with the introduction of a void themed thalassian variant. That some people don't like the solution is unfortunate but it is impossible to please everyone. They happened to take the option that didn't involve damaging the lines between the factions.
    That's true, that's why i think the best they could do is get more customization option for the VEs, but it also won't solve the problem that some people have (the lack of actual HE and the lack of that culture and fantasy).

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    And it might have worked if the VE's were made out of Alliance High Elves, yet they weren't. If it was meant as a compromise, it was bound to fail as it did not addressed the lore and fantasy that people wanted.
    They have been shown that the HEs are slowly but surely taking up the VE's studies. (not saying that every HE is turning into VE but many are)

  2. #8042
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    And it might have worked if the VE's were made out of Alliance High Elves, yet they weren't. If it was meant as a compromise, it was bound to fail as it did not addressed the lore and fantasy that people wanted.
    Given the number of people who started getting excited at even the possibility of High Elf like skin tones on Void Elves, I believe you over-estimate how many of your fellow travellers care about the lore of the High Elves.

    Should those kind of skin tones ever be granted to the Void Elves, if it satisfies them (and I don't think it would as there is a world of difference between High Elf LIKE and High Elf EXACT), they would throw you and the others who care about High Elf lore under the bus faster than you can blink.

  3. #8043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorotia View Post
    What shocks me sometimes is how some people are so rabidly against even giving Blood Elves blue eyes...I don't get it.
    Wait.... If anyone is against that idea, it would be the HE fans, and it makes sense, as it would literally mean that HE will never be a thing and that they will have to play the Horde (and many HE fans are also Alliance fans), so i doubt that would make anyone happy.

  4. #8044
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Daz that doesn't make sense, all thalassian elves with the likely exception of the Void Elves are affected by the Sunwell regardless of where or even when they are. Anything that is happening to the Blood Elves is happening to the High Elves as well.

    As to why you don't see golden eyed High Elves, there is a game reason and a lore reason.

    The lore reason is that only thalassian elves REALLY attuned to the light are manifesting the golden eyes at this point. More will doubtless manifest them in future. But given their extreme rarity, the number of High Elves who would have manifested golden eyes is likely exceptionally low (probably single digits). It is also worth bearing in mind that the Sunwell is a light-ARCANE energy source. Given that High Elf eyes already reflect arcane magic, it is possible that their eyes will not change as the arcane part of the Sunwell is reinforcing what is already there among those more arcane attuned.

    The game reason is that Blizzard hasn't bothered updating the special High Elf skins that have blue eyes for something that is likely incredibly rare.
    We both have already discussed this a lot

    Honestly im quite tired after so many replies given today, so forgive me if i dont write a new elaborated answer for you this time. I think all the explanations i gave in this last hour could somehow help to show why we both chronically disagree in this issue lol.

  5. #8045
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    That's true, that's why i think the best they could do is get more customization option for the VEs, but it also won't solve the problem that some people have (the lack of actual HE and the lack of that culture and fantasy).
    That culture and fantasy is the Blood Elf culture and fantasy. It is already available.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    They have been shown that the HEs are slowly but surely taking up the VE's studies. (not saying that every HE is turning into VE but many are)
    I believe the Void Elves can turn other elves into Void Elves. It isn't explicitly stated they cannot. If a Void Elf is acceptable should it have originated within the Alliance, it is possible to roleplay a High Elf who has adopted the void. Just because it is not explicitly stated either way should not preclude this option.

  6. #8046
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Given the number of people who started getting excited at even the possibility of High Elf like skin tones on Void Elves, I believe you over-estimate how many of your fellow travellers care about the lore of the High Elves.

    Should those kind of skin tones ever be granted to the Void Elves, if it satisfies them (and I don't think it would as there is a world of difference between High Elf LIKE and High Elf EXACT), they would throw you and the others who care about High Elf lore under the bus faster than you can blink.
    And I wouldn't care TBH. I speak for myself at the end of the day, and myself only.

    And perhaps in that alternate timeline where VE's were made out of High Elves, we would be both laughing at people that just want to be a pretty blonde HE. But TBH if they give VE's HE skin options I would hope they do so by adding HE's to them otherwise what even.

  7. #8047
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    True, though i wonder if the BE take some of the NB fruit, will they get blue eyes? (i assume)...

    Either way... i have always though that one of the best "shows" for HE that we have in game is Nozdormus.



    He looks amazing (IMHO) but it uses completely different animations compared to BE (It uses NE animations -just like BE used to have before BC)

    Note: They wouldn't have tattoos like that though (a shame) but i guess they could have some like Alleria
    He is amazing yes, but so are all main characters of the story. Blizzard always gives unique models to the leaders or relevant characters

    Also in this thread there are many awesome fan made tattoos for high elves. I was amazed with their creativity.

  8. #8048
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    We both have already discussed this a lot

    Honestly im quite tired after so many replies given today, so forgive me if i dont write a new elaborated answer for you this time. I think all the explanations i gave in this last hour could somehow help to show why we both chronically disagree in this issue lol.
    Yes I started going through my posts chronologically from where I last left off and saw the discussion. I get why people disagree but on this occasion you really are just incorrect. All the lore shows all thalassian elves feel the radiance of the Sunwell and that it sustains them, so Blood Elves and High Elves are subject to the same changes.

    The presumption now of course is that the Void Elf connection to the well was severed by their transformation, because I imagine it would be like being injected with acid otherwise. But there is a story rationale behind why the Void Elves don't feed on the Sunwell. That has not happened to the High Elves. Like the Blood Elves, they were bereft by it's destruction and they were saved by it's restoration.

  9. #8049
    The developers are clearly biased towards the Horde. Ion mains an Orc Shaman (enough said). The developers constantly make fun of the fact that Alliance mounts in this expansion are pathetic. The developers even insulted at a personal level Alliance PVP players at Blizzcon 2018. So long as these people are in charge of the game, High Elves will never be playable.

    Of course if you put a Vereesa fanboy in charge of the game, High Elves will suddenly be different enough from Blood Elves to qualify as an Allied Race.

    You people are delusional if you're seriously convinced that lore matters here. Lore bends to the will of the developers, and that will never change.

  10. #8050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    That culture and fantasy is the Blood Elf culture and fantasy. It is already available.
    No, i mean... the fantasy of the group of exiles that evade the corruption of their people.

    I believe the Void Elves can turn other elves into Void Elves. It isn't explicitly stated they cannot. If a Void Elf is acceptable should it have originated within the Alliance, it is possible to roleplay a High Elf who has adopted the void. Just because it is not explicitly stated either way should not preclude this option.
    Indeed, in the starting zone of the VE you can see BE and HE studying the void with the title "initiate"

  11. #8051
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Wait.... If anyone is against that idea, it would be the HE fans, and it makes sense, as it would literally mean that HE will never be a thing and that they will have to play the Horde (and many HE fans are also Alliance fans), so i doubt that would make anyone happy.
    Well if they're HE fans they were lying to me, I had a argument in a discord (Not the HE one) a few weeks ago...I was talking about High Elves in the channel's WoW channel and I said I'd be fine with Belves getting blue eyes and they kept telling me how it was wrong and it would break lore. (One even told me it could never happen because the Sunwell is full holy and I showed them that it was a mix of arcane and holy.)

    Another gave me a argument that it couldn't happen because High Elves are different from Blood Elves (While also copying and pasting what Ion said about Blood Elves are High Elves mind you) and they said that it would mess with the game and their identity I asked why if Alliance doesn't have playable High Elves how will it really mess with the game? Never got a answer to that one. Basically said it you can't have it both ways...High Elves can't be Blood Elves if High Elves are different from Blood Elves...they kept going on cherry picking till a moderator had to come in and stop it for basically being a run on topic because they kept going around and around using the same few contradictory lines as their defense.

  12. #8052
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    And I wouldn't care TBH. I speak for myself at the end of the day, and myself only.

    And perhaps in that alternate timeline where VE's were made out of High Elves, we would be both laughing at people that just want to be a pretty blonde HE. But TBH if they give VE's HE skin options I would hope they do so by adding HE's to them otherwise what even.
    I still believe High Elves are being turned into Void Elves to give true lore fans such as yourself a form of what you want. I wish they would state it explicitly to give you the security that is what is happening. But I believe that as they have not stated that that ISN'T what is happening...and that they have heavily implied High Elves CAN be changed into Void Elves, your best bet maybe to make a leap of faith?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorotia View Post
    Well if they're HE fans they were lying to me, I had a argument in a discord (Not the HE one) a few weeks ago...I was talking about High Elves in the channel's WoW channel and I said I'd be fine with Belves getting blue eyes and they kept telling me how it was wrong and it would break lore. (One even told me it could never happen because the Sunwell is full holy and I showed them that it was a mix of arcane and holy.)

    Another gave me a argument that it couldn't happen because High Elves are different from Blood Elves (While also copying and pasting what Ion said about Blood Elves are High Elves mind you) and they said that it would mess with the game and their identity I asked why if Alliance doesn't have playable High Elves how will it really mess with the game? Never got a answer to that one. Basically said it you can't have it both ways...High Elves can't be Blood Elves if High Elves are different from Blood Elves...they kept going on cherry picking till a moderator had to come in and stop it for basically being a run on topic because they kept going around and around using the same few contradictory lines as their defense.
    To be fair I've not seen anyone who is anti High Elf argue that Blood Elves shouldn't have a blue eye option. I find it extremely weird that this occurred. Usually those against Blood Elves getting blue eyes are pro High Elfers who wish to save the blue eyes for the playable High Elf race and who feel if Blood Elves get the option it's another nail in the coffin of the dream. Which it would be, but I don't see why a valid customization option for Blood Elves should be restricted for a race that is almost certainly never going to be added.

  13. #8053
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Alleria Windrunner View Post
    You people are delusional if you're seriously convinced that lore matters here. Lore bends to the will of the developers, and that will never change.
    About the only thing that makes sense.

    But it's to be expected that Horde bias would come into the discussion. Still, how would you tell Belf players that they are just gonna rip them off again cause, well, just cause some guys didn't think the Velfs hit the spot and got really vocal about it. Wouldn't that seem like bias to them?

    But you know what? I suspect another belf clone wil be available when this game has to go free to play. Then the Helf fans can buy their fetish from the store website.

    And even then I suspect it won't be good enough.

  14. #8054
    Titan Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorotia View Post
    Well if they're HE fans they were lying to me, I had a argument in a discord (Not the HE one) a few weeks ago...I was talking about High Elves in the channel's WoW channel and I said I'd be fine with Belves getting blue eyes and they kept telling me how it was wrong and it would break lore. (One even told me it could never happen because the Sunwell is full holy and I showed them that it was a mix of arcane and holy.)

    Another gave me a argument that it couldn't happen because High Elves are different from Blood Elves (While also copying and pasting what Ion said about Blood Elves are High Elves mind you) and they said that it would mess with the game and their identity I asked why if Alliance doesn't have playable High Elves how will it really mess with the game? Never got a answer to that one. Basically said it you can't have it both ways...High Elves can't be Blood Elves if High Elves are different from Blood Elves...they kept going on cherry picking till a moderator had to come in and stop it for basically being a run on topic because they kept going around and around using the same few contradictory lines as their defense.
    Weird, though i agree that the BE wouldn't get Blue eyes from the Sunwell (as we already know what the new Sunwell has done to them), but they just need a tap of the NB juice and done (wow, that sounds worse than i imagined) -Get the fruit from the Arcandor- (the same way as i see plausible for some NB to start tapping into the Sunwell and get golden eyes and golden tattoos)

  15. #8055
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    It would be interesting to say the least.

    [IMG]https://66.media.tumblr.com/87eb1c1233f0ac1f62e34bbd876ae81c/tumblr_inline_oeajbsPuj41qga66v_540.png[IMG]

    Maybe not....
    They've assimilated into human culture.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  16. #8056
    But it's to be expected that Horde bias would come into the discussion.
    It's true. Prove me wrong, after Blizzard mocked Alliance players at Blizzcon by insulting them, and with Ion who mains an Orc Shaman (nothing screams "HORDE" more than that race-class combination).

    I don't care about High Elves, but let's be real, if Ion were replaced by a fan of Vereesa, the lore would be bent so that High Elves make sense as a playable race. But with Ion in charge? Don't expect any love given to the Alliance. They are too busy making a third full-CGI cinematic for Saurfang's boring storyline which is just Vol'jin 2.0.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2018-11-17 at 10:16 PM.

  17. #8057
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Alleria Windrunner View Post
    It's true. Prove me wrong, after Blizzard mocked Alliance players at Blizzcon by insulting them, and with Ion who mains an Orc Shaman (nothing screams "HORDE" more than that race-class combination).

    I don't care about High Elves, but let's be real, if Ion were replaced by a fan of Vereesa, the lore would be bent so that High Elves make sense as a playable race. But with Ion in charge? Don't expect any love given to the Alliance. They are too busy making a third full-CGI cinematic for Saurfang's boring storyline which is just Vol'jin 2.0.
    So if Ion would roll Alliance instead, that wouldn't be bias?

    Look, I'm not saying that some of the devs aren't biased, like us they enjoy part of the game and some of them might have chosen Horde as much as others have chosen to go Alliance, but specifically alienating one half of their players cause, I don't know, is not a reasonable assumption and certainly not a reason to request stuff.

    I'm not familiar with the Blizzcon insult however.

    And it's kind of amusing that Ion plays a shaman considering how much that class sucked.

    So using this exact subject, giving another version of the belf to the Alliance translates how to the considerable part of the Horde that plays belfs? I mean it's not the first time it happens. How do you justify doing it again for a bunch of people whose only argument is that they really want the respective clone. It's bias unless they don't?
    Last edited by Evilfish; 2018-11-18 at 08:48 AM.

  18. #8058
    I often read in this thread that people aren't asking for a copy of Blood Elves on the Alliance, but that is just what high elves are. Kul Tiran humans may be visually different from Stormwind humans, but all of the options are available to Alliance players. Having the standard human model as an option for Kul Tiran humans would be fine by me, but is largely redundant. There is no precedent for an arbitrary separation of visual customization options between factions, nor should there be. Elves should not arbitrarily gain 50 pounds because they're wearing a blue tabard instead of a red one. There has to be a visual disparity between models that is proportional to its basis, and I don't believe that it is possible for high elves to be different enough from Blood Elves without changing what high elves are or sacrificing the integrity of the relationship between the model and what it represents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    No, i mean... the fantasy of the group of exiles that evade the corruption of their people.
    That fantasy can exist in any new race, and arguably already does in the Mag'har orcs. If you're asking for that while also being a Thalassian elf in addition to being a member of the Alliance, I think you're just asking Blizzard to give up too much. The real problem with high elves as an independent playable race is that they don't contribute unique options, only a unique combination of options that already exist. None of the existing playable races are like that. At least for me, it represents a lower standard for playable races, even allied races.

  19. #8059
    Titan Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protip View Post
    That fantasy can exist in any new race, and arguably already does in the Mag'har orcs. If you're asking for that while also being a Thalassian elf in addition to being a member of the Alliance, I think you're just asking Blizzard to give up too much. The real problem with high elves as an independent playable race is that they don't contribute unique options, only a unique combination of options that already exist. None of the existing playable races are like that. At least for me, it represents a lower standard for playable races, even allied races.
    Yes, is like the fantasy of the Mag'har Orcs but more regal, i do agree that the HE by themselves and how they are right now are not unique enough to be an allied race (but when it comes to looks that can easily be solved), sadly their appearance in Dalaran doesn't show much of their culture and how they have evolved (if at all)

  20. #8060
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Also Darnarian and the Froshands and Captains. The problem is that we don't know where they come from. Are they late addition BE's? Kirin Tor turn coats? Some BE's that were somewhere else during the heavy usage of fel crystals in QT? With no explanation of where they come from, and no new additions since MoP, it's only speculative.

    IMO the Frosthands have blue eyes just because of that, they use ice magic XD. The Captains could be a bug for all we know, since there is no reason why that type of NPC would have blue eyes and the rest not.
    Probably just Blizzard making a mistake with skin id's. It took a long time for them to fix Arathor the Redeemer's eyes as well. Blue/Green eyes are meant as visual queues as to the background of the characters.

    Given all the demonic energy in Outland all the Alliance Expedition Elves should have had green eyes as well, and perhaps the eyes of all Night Elf player characters should have changed green as well, at least while in Outland.

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