1. #8081
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    fat high elves, make it so.
    I'd roll a pointy eared Kul Tiran.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    You really like to use adjectives to qualify other people, dont you? I would suggest you should cut them out to be more objective in your arguments.

    Objectively: ingame no other elves besides the sindorei have fel green or golden eyes. And ingame only queldorei have the blue eyes. This shows with what magic school they are infused with... for now at least.
    Some fact checking; there are some blood elves with blue eyes. We might not know why tho, but yeah, there are some blood elves with blue eyes.

  2. #8082
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    snip]
    Rather than respond to every single point you have made, let us boil it down. I believe the following occurred. That when the city of Dalaran fell during Warcraft 3, it's community of High Elves was destroyed and scattered to the winds (not necessarily the people). Some went with Jaina to Kalimdor, which is an in game explanation for the fact Mage and Priest units in the Alliance armies during missions set in Kalimdor were High Elves. These individuals later settled in Theramore alongside Jaina.
    Some returned with Kael'thas to Silvermoon and became Blood Elves.

    Some remained around Dalaran to help them rebuild. When Kael returned at the head of the Blood Elven forces to assist Garithos, he would have shown up before he a.) split with the Alliance b.) went to Outland and sided with Illidan c.) sent Rommath back to teach the Blood Elves how to use those techniques to survive. These Elves would have had almost no reason not to side with their Prince, who lest we forget was the leader of the Thalassian Elf community prior to the fall of the city. There was nothing to schism over.

    When Garithos sentenced the Elves did death, he sentenced to death all the Elves associated with Kael i.e. most of them. These escaped. After Garithos' death and the destruction of his army, the Kirin Tor survivors and the few, few Elves who remained them erected a shield and rebuilt the city. Rhonin was elected head of the Kirin Tor. His wife Veressa began organizing the High Elves in the city, whom were not very numerous. The former community had been dominated by Mages. Given the nature of the addiction, it was the Mages who were the first to succumb to Illidan's promises and use the mana draining techniques. A few Magisters remained in Dalaran, but their struggle with the addiction would have been the hardest. These would be the High Elf Magisters of Dalaran, a tiny group (unrepresented on the Kirin Tor council of six).

    Veressa issued a rallying cry for any wandering High Elf who disagreed with the decision Silvermoon had made to come and join her. These tended to be ex Farstriders, borne out by the military nature of most remaining High Elves encountered. They had fought with the Alliance during the Second War and part of the Third, and felt a loyalty and kinship to the Alliance. They believed Silvermoon had betrayed the Alliance, not vice versa. Hearing the call of a former Farstrider, a Windrunner no less, they answered her call and arrived. This is the beginning of a new High Elf community in Dalaran, one much smaller than what came previously, but they had a place to start again.

    Survivors of the old community, those who had followed Kael but who had lived in Dalaran for millenia, still believed Dalaran was their home. Despite their allegiance to the Horde, this group of primarily Mages listened to the words of Aethas Sunreaver, formed the Sunreavers and returned to the city where they were not only readmitted, but lodged in a recreation of their old quarter (Jaina's flashback placed Kael squarely in the Sunreaver section after all before there even where Sunreavers).

    To sum up, the old High Elf community of Mages was destroyed (not killed). A new community formed from High Elf exiles from Silvermoon, drawn by Veressa and including a small fraction of the old High Elf civilian population, was formed. A large section of the old community returned in the form of the Sunreavers and both sides held animosity for each other based on their political opinions.

    You are attempting to argue that the Dalaran community of High Elves survived more or less intact and that the Silver Covenant is made up of a majority of that population. Your reason for doing so is to justify the existence of an expatriate community of High Elves that has dwelled in Dalaran for thousands of years as part of the wider argument for an Alliance High Elf allied race. If it is the same people, then they've been apart from Silvermoon for a very long time.

    I believe the evidence behind what I believe is much stronger, particularly given that Jaina herself terms the Sunreavers as the elves who taught Humanity magic and the Sunreavers insisted Dalaran was their home. The Sunreavers reacted to the purge precisely how you would expect the long term residents of the city to react under the circumstances. The Sunreavers, those Horde aligned mages, are the expatriate community you believe the Silver Covenant represents. The Silver Covenant consists of those who rejected Silvermoon a mere twelve years ago. There has been no time for differentiation.

  3. #8083
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    I still think this can be solved with a new model (different models don't have to mean different races), as it have been shown with prominent lore characters (Thrall, Garrosh vs PC Orcs in its time or Varian, fat human, defias human vs PC human)
    So what happens if that model isn't everything the helf fans dreamed of? Another "wasted" elf clone?

  4. #8084
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    There are blood elves with blue eyes already in the game, Lanesh has been around since what, Wotlk? MoP? Lore not being properly portrayed in game doesn't magically make it disappear.
    Also Darnarian and the Froshands and Captains. The problem is that we don't know where they come from. Are they late addition BE's? Kirin Tor turn coats? Some BE's that were somewhere else during the heavy usage of fel crystals in QT? With no explanation of where they come from, and no new additions since MoP, it's only speculative.

    IMO the Frosthands have blue eyes just because of that, they use ice magic XD. The Captains could be a bug for all we know, since there is no reason why that type of NPC would have blue eyes and the rest not.

  5. #8085
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    This.

    The sunwell changing thr Blood Elves and not the Silver Covenant is basically what i have been saying for the last 200 pages on this thread.
    Daz that doesn't make sense, all thalassian elves with the likely exception of the Void Elves are affected by the Sunwell regardless of where or even when they are. Anything that is happening to the Blood Elves is happening to the High Elves as well.

    As to why you don't see golden eyed High Elves, there is a game reason and a lore reason.

    The lore reason is that only thalassian elves REALLY attuned to the light are manifesting the golden eyes at this point. More will doubtless manifest them in future. But given their extreme rarity, the number of High Elves who would have manifested golden eyes is likely exceptionally low (probably single digits). Most Blood Elves still maintain the green eyes right now.
    It is also worth bearing in mind that the Sunwell is a light-ARCANE energy source. Given that High Elf eyes already reflect arcane magic, it is possible that their eyes will not change as the arcane part of the Sunwell is reinforcing what is already there among those more arcane attuned.

    The game reason is that Blizzard hasn't bothered updating the special High Elf skins that have blue eyes for something that is likely incredibly rare.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2018-11-17 at 09:48 PM.

  6. #8086
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    Well there is one thing we cant forget : for the better and for the worse, warcraft's Lore is tied up to gameplay, and many of the Lore's restrictions come from gameplay decisions. Having said that, we clearly see that it is a gameplay decision that the colors of the playable Blood elf eyes and the Npcs from Silvermoon have exclusively fel green or golden eyes, something no other group of quelthalas elves have.

    The glowing blue eyes and sometimes green (not FEL green) belong to the elves who are Queldorei (as said in the suramar liberation quest) and not Sindorei (blood elves) or Rendorei (void elves). So for me Blizzard clearly splits Sindorei and Queldorei ingame and shows their differences.

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    Of course, just like the holy sunwell is affecting the silvermoon elves. It isnt contradicting my arguments.

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    Thanks im just trying to show that Alliance High Elves are a valid option for an allied race and can be implemented in a different way than the current existing blood and void elves. And have lore and history for them.
    Doesn't matter how hard you try, there are players who start foaming at the mouth with just the mention of High Elves...I've seen players offer various customization differences, race idea trades for High Elves, and even just blue eye options for Blood Elves...people will argue against anything no matter how hard you try unfortunately.

  7. #8087
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    So what happens if that model isn't everything the helf fans dreamed of? Another "wasted" elf clone?
    Well it would end up being the end of "GIVE ME HES!", and it would turn into "CHANGE THIS SHIT!" until they get used to it.

    Note: Yeah, this alone make it hard to the point that maybe its not even worth it (Though they could solve this by giving a sneak peek of the new model with a new important character that use that model -like a patch boss or something-, to see how good is the reception of the model itself)

  8. #8088
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    There are blood elves with blue eyes already in the game, Lanesh has been around since what, Wotlk? MoP? Lore not being properly portrayed in game doesn't magically make it disappear.
    I dont know that one, but maybe thete might be one or two. However above 95% of the sindorei have fel green or golden eyes.

  9. #8089
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebanese Dude View Post
    We just had a lead dev tell people that an incarnation of High elves is still possible and people are still trying to shut down the conversation.
    You had a lead dev nod along when told 'High Elves are the Alliance version of Void Elves', blanch a little when asked about High Elf LIKE customization options and who then said 'it's always possible (like the previous two times Ion said anything is possible in future...sorry three times, Ion was asked at Blizzcon apparently and more or less said the exact same thing albeit much nicer and less direct).

    Of course, a Void Elf with High Elf LIKE customization options isn't going to be a High Elf. It's still going to be a shadow infested Void Elf.

  10. #8090
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    fat high elves, make it so.
    It would be interesting to say the least.



    Maybe not....

  11. #8091
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorotia View Post
    Doesn't matter how hard you try, there are players who start foaming at the mouth with just the mention of High Elves...I've seen players offer various customization differences, race idea trades for High Elves, and even just blue eye options for Blood Elves...people will argue against anything no matter how hard you try unfortunately.
    Yes it is true unfortunately. The High Elf discussion became one of the most toxic topics in the wow community unfortunately

  12. #8092
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    I still think this can be solved with a new model (different models don't have to mean different races), as it have been shown with prominent lore characters (Thrall, Garrosh vs PC Orcs in its time or Varian, fat human, defias human vs PC human)
    This was solved with the introduction of a void themed thalassian variant. That some people don't like the solution is unfortunate but it is impossible to please everyone. They happened to take the option that didn't involve damaging the lines between the factions.

  13. #8093
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    I dont know that one, but maybe thete might be one or two. However above 95% of the sindorei have fel green or golden eyes.
    True, though i wonder if the BE take some of the NB fruit, will they get blue eyes? (i assume)...

    Either way... i have always though that one of the best "shows" for HE that we have in game is Nozdormus.



    He looks amazing (IMHO) but it uses completely different animations compared to BE (It uses NE animations -just like BE used to have before BC)

    Note: They wouldn't have tattoos like that though (a shame) but i guess they could have some like Alleria

  14. #8094
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    Yes it is true unfortunately. The High Elf discussion became one of the most toxic topics in the wow community unfortunately
    What shocks me sometimes is how some people are so rabidly against even giving Blood Elves blue eyes...I don't get it.

  15. #8095
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    This was solved with the introduction of a void themed thalassian variant. That some people don't like the solution is unfortunate but it is impossible to please everyone. They happened to take the option that didn't involve damaging the lines between the factions.
    And it might have worked if the VE's were made out of Alliance High Elves, yet they weren't. If it was meant as a compromise, it was bound to fail as it did not addressed the lore and fantasy that people wanted.

  16. #8096
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    This was solved with the introduction of a void themed thalassian variant. That some people don't like the solution is unfortunate but it is impossible to please everyone. They happened to take the option that didn't involve damaging the lines between the factions.
    That's true, that's why i think the best they could do is get more customization option for the VEs, but it also won't solve the problem that some people have (the lack of actual HE and the lack of that culture and fantasy).

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    And it might have worked if the VE's were made out of Alliance High Elves, yet they weren't. If it was meant as a compromise, it was bound to fail as it did not addressed the lore and fantasy that people wanted.
    They have been shown that the HEs are slowly but surely taking up the VE's studies. (not saying that every HE is turning into VE but many are)

  17. #8097
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    And it might have worked if the VE's were made out of Alliance High Elves, yet they weren't. If it was meant as a compromise, it was bound to fail as it did not addressed the lore and fantasy that people wanted.
    Given the number of people who started getting excited at even the possibility of High Elf like skin tones on Void Elves, I believe you over-estimate how many of your fellow travellers care about the lore of the High Elves.

    Should those kind of skin tones ever be granted to the Void Elves, if it satisfies them (and I don't think it would as there is a world of difference between High Elf LIKE and High Elf EXACT), they would throw you and the others who care about High Elf lore under the bus faster than you can blink.

  18. #8098
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorotia View Post
    What shocks me sometimes is how some people are so rabidly against even giving Blood Elves blue eyes...I don't get it.
    Wait.... If anyone is against that idea, it would be the HE fans, and it makes sense, as it would literally mean that HE will never be a thing and that they will have to play the Horde (and many HE fans are also Alliance fans), so i doubt that would make anyone happy.

  19. #8099
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Daz that doesn't make sense, all thalassian elves with the likely exception of the Void Elves are affected by the Sunwell regardless of where or even when they are. Anything that is happening to the Blood Elves is happening to the High Elves as well.

    As to why you don't see golden eyed High Elves, there is a game reason and a lore reason.

    The lore reason is that only thalassian elves REALLY attuned to the light are manifesting the golden eyes at this point. More will doubtless manifest them in future. But given their extreme rarity, the number of High Elves who would have manifested golden eyes is likely exceptionally low (probably single digits). It is also worth bearing in mind that the Sunwell is a light-ARCANE energy source. Given that High Elf eyes already reflect arcane magic, it is possible that their eyes will not change as the arcane part of the Sunwell is reinforcing what is already there among those more arcane attuned.

    The game reason is that Blizzard hasn't bothered updating the special High Elf skins that have blue eyes for something that is likely incredibly rare.
    We both have already discussed this a lot

    Honestly im quite tired after so many replies given today, so forgive me if i dont write a new elaborated answer for you this time. I think all the explanations i gave in this last hour could somehow help to show why we both chronically disagree in this issue lol.

  20. #8100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    That's true, that's why i think the best they could do is get more customization option for the VEs, but it also won't solve the problem that some people have (the lack of actual HE and the lack of that culture and fantasy).
    That culture and fantasy is the Blood Elf culture and fantasy. It is already available.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    They have been shown that the HEs are slowly but surely taking up the VE's studies. (not saying that every HE is turning into VE but many are)
    I believe the Void Elves can turn other elves into Void Elves. It isn't explicitly stated they cannot. If a Void Elf is acceptable should it have originated within the Alliance, it is possible to roleplay a High Elf who has adopted the void. Just because it is not explicitly stated either way should not preclude this option.

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