Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Proximity never affected them before. They had glowing eyes when there wasn't even a Sunwell to draw from, High Elves did not. The only logical explanation is that it's a side effect of over-reliance on mana-tapping during the period between TFT and TBC.

Considering that proximity to power sources literally gave them glowing eyes -The well of eternity, then the sunwell, then green with fel crystals- I think that the theory that proximity to radiating powers sources affects Thalassian Eye color cannot be dismissed.

Void Elves got blue-white eyes for being exposed to Void Energy, should have been purple but let's go with it.

[Lumineus]

Void Elves are also former Blood Elves, which means they used Mana Tap.

The High Elves stationed in Outland never got glowing eyes, let alone green glowing eyes, despite living on a Fel-blasted asteroid for two decades.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Void Elves are also former Blood Elves, which means they used Mana Tap.

The High Elves stationed in Outland never got glowing eyes, let alone green glowing eyes, despite living on a Fel-blasted asteroid for two decades.

I mean the Sunwel itself already gave them blue eyes on the first place so...

[Evilfish]

Inflammatory is stuff like the below



You exaggerate so much, in an antagonistic way, that's what I call inflammatory. The report suggestion isn't a main point, it's more just ignoring. I said report because you're clearly being rude/inflammatory, but it's up to the mods how they'd like to handle it y'know? Just because I suggest it doesn't mean anything will come of it.

I've just learned it's better to ignore and/or report and move on, because going in circles does nothing.

Also you clearly put words into others mouths that isn't there. If I actually wanted things exactly the way I wanted then Void Elves wouldn't have ever been a thing and High Elves would be. I work with what's there.

There are facts to Blood Elves that everyone knows that I've never debated against, like them being the majority of the "High Elf race" or them being former High Elves. Heck even at some point is correct to say "Blood Elves are High Elves" but that misses the context of this entire discussion which has already been pointed out numerous times.

High Elf is the name of a race sure, but High Elf is also the name of a group of High Elves on Alliance (who still call themselves High Elves - blame Blizz not the players) that have been faction loyal forever and continue to pop up alongside Alliance matters. With the Allied Race system in place it's the reason why players who wanted to play High Elves are speaking up more now than ever before, even though it's been a known request for a long time Alliance side, but back then additional playable races had heavier requirements.

A Blood Elf doesn't fall into that fantasy. Just like a Green Orc could never fulfill the Mag'har fantasy. Just like a Bronzebeard can't fulfill the Wildhammer fantasy. A Void Elf is even further from that asked for High Elf fantasy since they're closer to beginning TBC Blood Elves with throwing their faith into a chaotic magic source.

You can talk about reality checks but you're missing the most recent reality check which is that there's a chance High Elf customization can come to Void Elves. If Blizzard is open to allowing that (HE customization) then perhaps they can be open to more? Who truly knows. I'll say we know once we see how Wildhammer Dwarves are handled. The other reality check that Ion off-the-cuff has said "the door hasn't closed" on High Elves.

The tone has changed since the April Q/A. That's a reality check you're continually ignoring. Not that it matters. Ultimately it's just Blizzard that has to be convinced. And the more we see them implementing High Elves in-game, the more story that occurs around Blood Elves coming back to Alliance, the further that Void Elves go in their own direction, all of it aids in giving High Elves an entry way into being properly playable on Alliance.

Ok, let's cut the crap. I'm here cause I don't want you people to pull another Velf. And yeah, I'm aware you didn't create Velfs but you were the cause they were given to the Alliance. That is enough. Anything past that is ripping off Belfs and quite frankly the model was enogu of a compromise. If you fellas feel it's not enough for you then by all means the HORDE IS WAITING FOR YOU, with pretty little elves all pink just like you want them. If that's not acceptable then SO SORRY, there's no debate past that so either start liking the Velfs or start liking the Belfs. That's all there is to it.You can't do that and feel the need to fill 5000 pages of you posts that only seem to vehiculate around the idea of getting Helfs and when, nothing else matters, except of course the people who might disagree with you, but you can always ask the other posters to ignore then, report them or just wish they'd got cancer like one of your passionate posters told one poster here (I won't name him).

Deal with people coming here with different perspectives. Deal with the idea that non all of them will want to agree with you and some of them might even oppose you and please, pretty please, with sugar on top, get the hell over yourselves. Maybe then you'll have a civil discussion over a pointless subject like Helfs.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Ok, let's cut the crap. I'm here cause I don't want you people to pull another Velf. And yeah, I'm aware you didn't create Velfs but you were the cause they were given to the Alliance. That is enough. Anything past that is ripping off Belfs and quite frankly the model was enogu of a compromise. If you fellas feel it's not enough for you then by all means the HORDE IS WAITING FOR YOU, with pretty little elves all pink just like you want them. If that's not acceptable then SO SORRY, there's no debate past that so either start liking the Velfs or start liking the Belfs. That's all there is to it.You can't do that and feel the need to fill 5000 pages of you posts that only seem to vehiculate around the idea of getting Helfs and when, nothing else matters, except of course the people who might disagree with you, but you can always ask the other posters to ignore then, report them or just wish they'd got cancer like one of your passionate posters told one poster here (I won't name him).

Deal with people coming here with different perspectives. Deal with the idea that non all of them will want to agree with you and some of them might even oppose you and please, pretty please, with sugar on top, get the hell over yourselves. Maybe then you'll have a civil discussion over a pointless subject like Helfs.

And you will always miss the point of how Void Elves will never be a compromise for people that don't really care about the model on the first place.

But that would actually have necessity of you actually taking into account other people's perspective, thing you have proven yourself utterly unable to during all this time.

[Strippling]

I was depressed for 10 years. That shit does stuff to your brain, mate.
No, I wasn't trying to defend my behaviour, just trying to explain myself. I see now that it went poorly.
I'm very sorry to everyone for what I've said in the past.

I'm sorry to hear you had to go through that. My wife has been severely depressed for the past 5 years and it's taken a big toll on me and our children... so I know the damage it does. Despite my previous post, I do hope the best for you and hope you can heal from the mental damage

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https://www.firesofheaven.org/thread...ok-at-wow.353/


Alex "Keep It Respectful" Afrasiabi.

Not sure what I'm meant to be reading here, but I assume you're trying to justify disrespectful behavior?

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And you will always miss the point of how Void Elves will never be a compromise for people that don't really care about the model on the first place.

But that would actually have necessity of you actually taking into account other people's perspective, thing you have proven yourself utterly unable to during all this time.

That's rich. You realize that void elfs weren't just a compromise for the Alliance (in getting the thalassian model they've been demanding for) but also a compromise so as to not detract from the Horde race "Blood Elfs". Take into account other people's perspectives please before requesting something just cause "I want my high elfs".

[FlubberPuddy]

Ok, let's cut the crap. I'm here cause I don't want you people to pull another Velf. And yeah, I'm aware you didn't create Velfs but you were the cause they were given to the Alliance. That is enough. Anything past that is ripping off Belfs and quite frankly the model was enogu of a compromise. If you fellas feel it's not enough for you then by all means the HORDE IS WAITING FOR YOU, with pretty little elves all pink just like you want them. If that's not acceptable then SO SORRY, there's no debate past that so either start liking the Velfs or start liking the Belfs. That's all there is to it.You can't do that and feel the need to fill 5000 pages of you posts that only seem to vehiculate around the idea of getting Helfs and when, nothing else matters, except of course the people who might disagree with you, but you can always ask the other posters to ignore then, report them or just wish they'd got cancer like one of your passionate posters told one poster here (I won't name him).

Deal with people coming here with different perspectives. Deal with the idea that non all of them will want to agree with you and some of them might even oppose you and please, pretty please, with sugar on top, get the hell over yourselves. Maybe then you'll have a civil discussion over a pointless subject like Helfs.

So you admit that you're not here to discuss, just give your opinion and spout the meme-y "horde is waiting for you", thanks that's all I needed. I'm sure you can see how many of the posts just saying "horde are waiting for you" are treated.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

That's rich. You realize that void elfs weren't just a compromise for the Alliance (in getting the thalassian model they've been demanding for) but also a compromise so as to not detract from the Horde race "Blood Elfs". Take into account other people's perspectives please before requesting something just cause "I want my high elfs".

And sure giving the alliance literal Blood Elves din't detract from them, instead of using the group already on the alliance. You know what would have detracted even LESS from Blood Elves??

MAKING VOID ELVES OUT OF ALLIANCE HIGH ELVES IN THE FIRST PLACE.

As for the bolded part, it case you literally missed the line above

And you will always miss the point of how Void Elves will never be a compromise for people that don't really care about the model on the first place.

So I got a compromise on something I really didn't care...

Seriously how hard os to understand what a compromise is?

[FlubberPuddy]

That's rich. You realize that void elfs weren't just a compromise for the Alliance (in getting the thalassian model they've been demanding for) but also a compromise so as to not detract from the Horde race "Blood Elfs". Take into account other people's perspectives please before requesting something just cause "I want my high elfs".

Do you realize that Horde was given the "Night Elf Highborne" aesthetic? Blizzard set the precedent that an underutilized theme of an already playable race is par for the course when coming up with Allied Races.

If you want to be like that then since Alliance have the thalassian model, we can continue to "demand" for more thalassian elf things. Blizzard has already shown to be open to that idea for Alliance already anyway.

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And sure giving the alliance literal Blood Elves didnt detract from BE's

That's the funny thing, BE population I think either grew or stayed the same. When so many were saying High Elves would cause a huge swing in the player population (but then also at the same time chiming in that they're a boring addition no one would want). Yet literally ex-Blood Elves who have been touted as a very successful Alliance allied race has not impacted their ancestral race Horde side player population at all.

[Lumineus]

Not sure what I'm meant to be reading here, but I assume you're trying to justify disrespectful behavior?

Perhaps because you're ignorant?

Alex Afrasiabi is Furor Planedefiler, the guildmaster of Fires of Heaven. The only reason he is a dev in the first place is because of nepotism (hired on recommendation of Jeff Kaplan, aka his guildmate Tigole Bitties).

And what I am saying is asking for respectful behavior towards himself when he did not offer it to John Smedley -- over a logistics issue Blizzard repeated TWICE in WoW, no less -- makes him a hypocrite.

[Toho]

Guys....Do you really want so many elves races?, i mean, another elf race when you already got Void elves that are Silvermoon elves turned into void?. The only thing i can see blizzard doing for High Elves, is making a Void elf racial passive that allows them to turn into normal elves just like Alleria.

personally?

Just give the current void elves options for tattoos and more normal skin colors.

[FlubberPuddy]

Guys....Do you really want so many elves races?, i mean, another elf race when you already got Void elves that are Silvermoon elves turned into void?. The only thing i can see blizzard doing for High Elves, is making a Void elf racial passive that allows them to turn into normal elves just like Alleria.

There's no rush to have High Elves right now, no one's claiming that which you're implying. Also we know that Blizzard is already okay with doing more than a VE passive racial, by saying it's possible High Elf customization can come to Void Elves. So that's the bottom floor.

Again, since we also know that Wildhammer Dwarves will be coming at some point, which is a 3rd dwarf on Alliance. Then the most likely 3rd elf on Alliance is most likely going to be High Elves, unless they create another out-of-nowhere Elf for Alliance.

[Strippling]

Perhaps because you're ignorant?

Alex Afrasiabi is Furor Planedefiler, the guildmaster of Fires of Heaven. The only reason he is a dev in the first place is because of nepotism (hired on recommendation of Jeff Kaplan, aka his guildmate Tigole Bitties).

And what I am saying is asking for respectful behavior towards himself when he did not offer it to John Smedley -- over a logistics issue Blizzard repeated TWICE in WoW, no less -- makes him a hypocrite.

Got it, you're justifying disrespectful behavior.

[FlubberPuddy]

And what I am saying is asking for respectful behavior towards himself when he did not offer it to John Smedley -- over a logistics issue Blizzard repeated TWICE in WoW, no less -- makes him a hypocrite.

Meh, Furor definitely stuck it to the man, but no harm is asking for respectful feedback all around.

[Deleted]

Do you realize that Horde was given the "Night Elf Highborne" aesthetic? Blizzard set the precedent that an underutilized theme of an already playable race is par for the course when coming up with Allied Races.

If you want to be like that then since Alliance have the thalassian model, we can continue to "demand" for more thalassian elf things. Blizzard has already shown to be open to that idea for Alliance already anyway.

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That's the funny thing, BE population I think either grew or stayed the same. When so many were saying High Elves would cause a huge swing in the player population (but then also at the same time chiming in that they're a boring addition no one would want). Yet literally ex-Blood Elves who have been touted as a very successful Alliance allied race has not impacted their ancestral race Horde side player population at all.

At the same time, Alliance was given the Blood Elf aesthetics with a slight twist with the Void Elves, which is a fair trade since Nightborne also have a slight twist compared to Night Elves. And VE also have much better and more customising options than NB have, on top of that.

High Elf fans are really an ungrateful bunch.

BTW, nothing stops Blizzard from stating that VE are bolstering their numbers by converting High Elves. This is the only logical thing since the numbers of VE exciled from Silvermoon has not been that great. VE for me are nothing more than converted High Elves, no matter if they come from the Alliance or Horde.

And I surely would not make a High Elf character even if Blizzard would create High Elves as an Alliance AR. I play Sin'dorei because they are the true Thalassian Elves. I don't even had to get Void Elves, though they do look quite good, to be fair. Much better than High Elves in their boring, generic aesthetics. Tattoos would not do anything to improve that. Elves in WoW only got my interest with the Night Elves and the Blood Elf storyline. I did not care about Alleria at all. Jaina, Tyrande and Garona always have been much more interesting. I really do not get how people get so worked up about a generic, bland race which does not have any depth compared to most other fantasy settings.

[Vasaru]

Guys....Do you really want so many elves races?, i mean, another elf race when you already got Void elves that are Silvermoon elves turned into void?. The only thing i can see blizzard doing for High Elves, is making a Void elf racial passive that allows them to turn into normal elves just like Alleria.

Yes. The more the merrier.
I've tried playing Blood elves but it always felt awkward to me. I've no problem playing an Orc, troll or tauren while i'm on Horde. En elf however just feels wrong, unnatural. So I stick to Alliance mostly where I feel like they make sense and fit in.

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[..]High Elf fans are really an ungrateful bunch.[...]

I wonder why that is.

Blizzard gave the Horde a race that were originally part of the Alliance. A decision which ultimately led to the Horde being the more popular and successful faction.

[Evilfish]

So you admit that you're not here to discuss, just give your opinion and spout the meme-y "horde is waiting for you", thanks that's all I needed. I'm sure you can see how many of the posts just saying "horde are waiting for you" are treated.

Meme-y? Sorry, but you don't get to ridicule something just because you don't agree with it. The Belfs is a viable choice not a meme, like it or not. And I admit no such thing. I will discuss an idea that isn't "GIVE US HELFS EXACTLY HOW WE WANT THEM", because you fellas don't want to accept that is NOT a viable choice and it never was.

[FlubberPuddy]

At the same time, Alliance was given the Blood Elf aesthetics with a slight twist with the Void Elves, which is a fair trade since Nightborne also have a slight twist compared to Night Elves. And VE also have much better and more customising options than NB have, on top of that.

Nightborne are at least more differentiated from Night Elves than Void Elves are from Blood Elves. You have the model change, and idle stance changes to go along with the different customization options. Void Elves are literally purple/blue skinned Blood Elves that have tentacle hair options sort of like Draenei. It's like they had to monkeypaw the High Elf request somehow and couldn't think of anything but another emo/edgy race, another purple/blue elf, and oh let's borrow tentacle customization cuz Void is all about tentacles.

They are very uninspired, their lore is uninspired and minute. Most people that play them are due to the model itself since VE and BE are much closer in looks than NB and NE. Look at how unpopular Nightborne are on Horde and how many complain about their looks vs the popularity of Void Elves who are unaltered modeled purple-y Blood Elves. Someone can't truly say their lore is amazing since they barely have any and most of the forum posts you read about Void Elf players is liking their looks.

Truly a shallow race made for those who just wanted "Alliance Blood Elves". And if that is what High Elf fans truly wanted then they wouldn't be having this discussion we see here and elsewhere.

BTW, nothing stops Blizzard from stating that VE are bolstering their numbers by converting High Elves. This is the only logical thing since the numbers of VE exciled from Silvermoon has not been that great. VE for me are nothing more than converted High Elves, no matter if they come from the Alliance or Horde.

Nothing is stopping Blizzard from also adding High Elves. You could say that about anything. Nothing is stopping Blizzard from turning WoW into Warcraft 40k space-age fantasy in the next expansion too.

Until they do though, players like me will continue requesting High Elves. "The only logical thing" I think we can ascertain from the many decisions that Blizzard has made over the years - not all of them always turn out to be logical.

And I surely would not make a High Elf character even if Blizzard would create High Elves as an Alliance AR. I play Sin'dorei because they are the true Thalassian Elves. I don't even had to get Void Elves, though they do look quite good, to be fair. Much better than High Elves in their boring, generic aesthetics. Tattoos would not do anything to improve that. Elves in WoW only got my interest with the Night Elves and the Blood Elf storyline. I did not care about Alleria at all. Jaina, Tyrande and Garona always have been much more interesting. I really do not get how people get so worked up about a generic, bland race which does not have any depth compared to most other fantasy settings.

Nice. And I dislike Jinyu, and Mechagnomes as potential Allied Races. Oh and the tinker class idea. I find them boring, generic aesthetics as well.

Your opinion is noted but it doesn't take away that the High Elves are a popular request for Alliance playable race despite the release of Void Elves. Like holy hell more people have been talking about High Elves over Void Elves, even VE fans, since Void Elves were released. That's some straight popularity right there.

Even with the new forums making it so that threads are endless now, it hasn't stopped more High Elf threads from coming up. Ranging from talking about the recently possible High Elf customization being tacked onto Void Elves to threads suggesting Blood Elves become a neutral race that allows you to select being a High Elf if you choose to go Alliance.

This race request has been popular before WoW released, after WoW released, and even after a variant is added to the Alliance. That speaks a lot to their popularity whether some find them boring or otherwise.

And we have finally seen Blizzard at this recent Blizzcon thaw out a little bit regarding getting some form of High Elf fantasy onto the Alliance. Alex's "don't give up" and Ion "the door hasn't closed" Hazzikostas both show that playable High Elves aren't out of question. They just aren't going to be for BfA at the bare minimum.

There's potential story threads to go regarding High Elves:

- Reuniting the unorganized High Elves within the Alliance
- Blood Elves coming back into Alliance
- Vereesa and Alleria and Sylvanas
- Void Elves and the High Elves
- Arator's story
- The Silver Covenant being prominent

All potential storylines that could/would involve High Elves in some form.

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Sorry, but you don't get to ridicule something just because you don't agree with it.

The irony in this is palpable.

[Obelisk Kai]

The problem is that you keep conflating the "pro-helf" movement as anyone who wants High Elves, when the motivations people have are different. Some want the lore, some the aesthetic, some a mix of both. And to blame it on one portion being louder instead of actually listening to what different people of the fanbase are saying is weasily, is just like taking the worst Pro HE argument and making representative of a whole.

The reason motivation is a topic of discussion is perception.

Saying you want Alliance High Elves due to how you see them in the story, their lore, that earns a measure of respect and is understandable. But agitating primarily for a fair skinned, blonde haired, blue eyed elf comes across as shallow. It is desire that exists because this group wants to play that aesthetically pleasing Elf in the similarly pleasing (to them) aesthetic of the Alliance.

I would argue that Void Elves gave a lot of credence to the idea that those driven by aesthetics constitute a large chunk of the pro High Elf movement. After all, following their introduction there was a backlash driven by how they look and huge swathes of feedback asking Blizzard to modify the Void Elves to be closer to the High Elf ideal.

I accept that there are those who want High Elves for lore based reasons. But the sheer amount of feedback on Void Elves, the stuff Blizzard saw, showed anyone who cared to look that the big problem with Void Elves was that they weren't the High Elves. And what is the most obvious difference between High Elves and Void Elves? Their skin tones. Their whole look.

It's disingenuous. My first issue with Ion's answer what he dismissed all the lore based feedback, there were tons of threads about it, where blues responded. To say that he just didn't see any of that, that any of the dev team missed any of that feedback because the portion that only cared about the aesthetics is just very Pontius Pilatus.

The thing is about the aesthetics feedback was that it was the majority of the feedback of the time. The Unofficial Void Elf threads were mostly concerned with fixing Void Elves to be closer to High Elves. I still recall around this time last year DeicideUH, a prominent pro High Elfer who was active in these forums, rushed here to announce progress because he felt that one of the skin tones on a Void Elf NPC had been made more High Elf like (it later turned out he had taken the image while the NPC was lit by an external light source).

I can get that it is frustrating that your objections to Void Elves are drowned out by those who had a more superficial motivation, but that cannot be helped. I don't believe it is easy to so neatly segment the pro High Elf community into those driven by the lore and those driven by aesthetics. All share the same goal after all, playable Alliance High Elves. You cannot grant playable Alliance High Elves to those driven by the lore and withhold them from those whose motivation is purely looks. So while it is possible to recognize the different motivations, that does not change opinion on the desired end result.

As for your objection to the lore based feedback being ignored, that assumes everyone is on the same page and regards the High Elves as having a strong lore based case. Needless to say, many people disagree with that.

And the fundamental misunderstanding here is that you keep conflating looking like a Blood Elf with Playing a High Elf. There's a contextual difference that is relevant, and the reasons why many want High Elves. So if you can't see that your opinion on the issue will always be limited.

For those that is about the lore, it's about the differences between Blood Elves and High Elves, of how the first simply does not fullfill the same fantasy, so "moving away from the High Elf ideal embodied by Blood Elves" is moot, or even desired. Really, if you want to play a Blood Elf, just play a Blood Elf.

As I maintain, the sole difference between a Blood Elf and a High Elf is political. It was initiated in an ideological schism a mere thirteen years ago in game, but that ideological issue was rendered moot with the restoration of the Sunwell. This leaves only the political aspect of their divergence, whether they are Horde or Alliance.

It is not a mistake to conflate looking like a Blood Elf with playing a High Elf. Blood Elves are High Elves. They represent the warcraft ideal of the High Elf trope in fantasy.

An Alliance High Elf would have been born in and lived in Silvermoon for most of their life, so has every Blood Elf.
An Alliance High Elf would have an addiction to magic, so does every Blood Elf.
An Alliance High Elf would be sustained by the Sunwell, so is every Blood Elf.
An Alliance High Elf is a fair skinned, so is every Blood Elf.

I could go on. In every respect, up until the point of ideological divergence, a Blood Elf is indistinguishable from an Alliance High Elf.
The fantasy of being a political exile does not create a new theme, aesthetic, culture or physical look. High Elves maintain all of that. What they are, is Alliance Blood Elves.

But it is not a minor consideration, is a lack of understanding that has lead to months of pushback. Blizzard misunderstood the reasons many wanted High Elves -hint,

Forgive me for my poor wording. When I said minor consideration, what I meant was that while your motivation is genuine, it is not enough of a rationale to justify breaking the faction wall and undermining both the integrity of the Horde and the integrity of the Blood Elves by making their aesthetic, theme and culture de facto cross faction. While I know you believe that the introduction of High Elves would not do these things, I am absolutely of the belief that they would and as we know, Blizzard agrees.

it wasn't just about the model, it was about the lore- and has yet to offer any solution to that, any solution lorewise that could be considered a compromise.
Cause no, it hasn't been implied that HE's can be turned at all. I'd be happy if that was the case, but all we know is that some BEs and HE's are studying the void. That's far to be an implication, hopefully it's the set up FOR the implication, but so far is nothing but a headcanon, and if that's all the High Elf people are getting, is bascially nothing.

The presence of those scholars is implication enough...in fact a small grammatical note, this is a textbook definition of what 'implication' means.

im·pli·ca·tion
/ˌimpləˈkāSH(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
the conclusion that can be drawn from something, although it is not explicitly stated.

It is not explicitly stated that the scholars experimenting with void energy are being trained in preparation for a full scale conversion, but the implication IS there. I have said before your best option is to make a leap of faith regarding Void Elves and roleplay your Void Elf as an Alliance High Elf who took the plunge. Whilst I would prefer it was stated explicitly rather than implicitly, I cannot agree that playable Alliance High Elves are a valid solution because of a lack of that explicit confirmation.

Even were it to be confirmed that Void Elves could not create new Void Elves, and that they are in fact all Blood Elves, I would still believe that the maintenance of the integrity of my faction and one of the core races of my faction, the Blood Elves, trumps your lore based desire to play an Alliance High Elf and deservedly so.

Many people that like VE's are also pushing against the idea of including HE skin tones because it would rob the VEs of their identity, and MANY Blood Elf players are aginst because they don't want to lose any of their aesthetic. You keep pushing this narrative that is the HE side is the one causing the pushback, when many conversations within the HE side are about disagreeing about this, it is pretty disingenuous.

I agree that Helf skin tones, even the likelier Helf-like rather than Helf-exact, would diminish the Void Elves. And it unsurprising for Blood Elf players to be against as it is part of their racial uniqueness to which every race in this game is entitled

I never said the pro High Elf side was causing all the pushback, as an anti High Elf commentator I have been responsible for a lot of pushback myself. I hope in fact that some of the feedback I have offered, and others have offered, was instrumental in the creation of the Void Elves, the thalassian elf that doesn't step on the toes of the Horde or the Blood Elves.

And yet they created Pandaren, so to pretend that it is a hard rule that will never be changed or revisited is silly. And i'm not even saying that they should do it the same way, but that as a concept it could have been far better than with pandaren, even allowing for exclusive customization.

Pandaren were a one off, an experiment, conceived of as a neutral race with a story rooted in that neutrality. It was also an attempt to see if they could save Blizzard money and time in that they only had to create one starting zone rather than two for a pair of faction aligned races, and two rigs (male and female) rather than four for a pair of faction aligned races.

And it has been seven years since Pandaren were unveiled and six since they were added. One dev at least expressed that the cost to faction diversity as a result of the Pandaren was too much...and they were designed to be neutral. Turning a Horde unique race de facto neutral after eleven years is not the same thing.

Besides, the Allied race system with it's ability to reuse old rigs and lack of a need for a starting zone renders neutrality unnecessary as a time saving measure...and heightens the downsides of neutrality.

I am making the case for High Elves, so I am using a "form follows function" approach on this. If what High Elves need to be playable is different enough, let's do it then. The case being made is how to make their lore differences into aesthetic ones, and the most sensible approach to me seems to be behavioral/demeanor, which would translate into different animation and idle stances.

Which firstly would still be a fair-skinned, blonde haired thalassian elf with an addiction to the Sunwell and secondly relies on a minscule level of difference as a justification. Stance and voice emotes does not justify a new Allied race and such a group would with one hundred percent certainty undermine the integrity of the Horde and the Blood Elves.

There is a minimum level of difference between an existing race and a variant to be justifiable and if you want to know what that minimum is, look no further than the Void Elves and the Nightborne.

To say that High Elves are not differentiating on the same breath that you admit that they are assimilating into human culture shows a real dissonance in what you are saying. They might not be willingly differentiation, but they are being affected by their context and circumstance, that's what leads to differentiation.

When people say High Elves could differentiate, they propose High Elves creating a new culture by exaggerating elements that came from the Blood Elves, more outdoorsy, exaggerated tattoos. Traycor's work at the start of this thread show what I mean by this. Alliance High Elves are NOT differentiating from Blood Elves to create something new. They are either clinging to what they know or, when they DO change, it is to adopt some kind of human mannerism or custom.

For example, do they tend to affect their mannerisms around humans? Has that assimilation lead to them adopting human mannerisms? Do they purposefully act and behave less haughty to differentiate themselves from Blood Elves? all of these behavioral implications could be translated to a model with more or less Blood Elven proportions, but human animations. All of it based on lore, yet to make HE's distinct enough.

Mannerisms and attitude is not enough. Those are individual traits, not racial. The gold standard remains that if a Blood Elf can do something you are proposing for High Elf differentiation, then it's not enough.

That you think that a lorelol is justifiable to make purple Blood Elves is okay but expanding High Elf lore to make them playable is not really makes your argument suspect.

The reason Void Elves qualified is that they were physically transformed. There was an outside stimulus that provoked changes. No matter how much a Blood Elf tries, without undergoing the transformative process there is no way they can simulate what a Void Elf is. Void Elves now have their own aesthetic, their own theme that is derived from that transformation.

Most importantly, that transformation turned them into Void Elves but it also turn them out of being a Blood/High Elf.

Alliance High Elves and Blood Elves will always be the same people. Blood Elves are High Elves. High Elves are playable.

[Unholyground]

There are tons of high elves close to Christmas, they like all kinds of drugs.