Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Obelisk Kai]

Funny how you compare Italy in WW2 to the Blood Elves because on October 13 1943 Italy declared war on Nazi Germany and joined the Allied powers. It would be very interesting if Blizzard followed your analogy for BFA.

Some analogies only work so far.

another expac like bfa and we will surely get High Elves

Yes, if the game becomes a completely immiserating pile of garbage there is a chance, in their desperation, that they will provide High Elves in an attempt to lure back some of the few hundred players for whom it is the definitive issue.

Although if we ever reach that point those who seek playable Alliance High Elves will enjoy them in a dysfunctional, dying game.

[Ielenia]

Void Elves clearly constitute the attempt by Blizzard to meet the demand without compromising faction diversity. The reason the arguments of those who support the idea failed to get traction (remember, the desire for High Elves has existed for a long time) is that the fact they are already playable as Blood Elves is an insurmountable obstacle.

What compromise? By not giving players the high elves they were asking for? The whole argument about "faction diversity" crumbles because void elves don't possess different models or animations than the blood elf model. Having different skin tones is meaningless when the overwhelming majority of armor in the game covers the entire body. On top of that, it's easy to identify friend and foe since, even in PvE, players of different factions have different-colored outlines and names.

Their political views differ. We have no evidence regarding differences in philosophy beyond pro High Elfers head-canoning them as nobler, or loyaler, or 'positive-adjective here'-er. A different political viewpoint is not enough to differentiate a brand new race which shouldn't even be a point of debate, it's simply self evident given Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves are the exact same people.

The pandaren race throw your entire argument out the window. They literally are what you argue is "not enough" to make different races. They are literally the exact same race, differing only in political/philosophical views. They don't even have the luxury of having even the slightest physical difference like high elves and blood elves have, which is eye color.

You picked an arbitrary number in fifteen years because that is JUST beyond the time frame where Blood Elves joined the Horde.

No. I didn't pick an "arbitrary number". I picked 'fifteen years' because it's how long it's been since the Horde has been formed. When I hear the term "core members", I imagine that they are the members who were there since the beginning, and did not join after the fact.

Ridiculous conceit attempting to stretch terminology to the point of meaninglessness. Being playable maybe an out of game term, but it is recognition of the major role a race plays in it's faction. But if we are to limit it to in game stuff, Alliance High Elves have no independent lands, they have no independent military, they have no substantial civilian population, they continue to exist on the charity of Dalaran which is technically a neutral city. They do not participate in the Alliance leadership, in that the highest ranking Alliance High Elf we know of is equivalent to a Captain in the Stormwind city guard, leader of a local military force answerable to local leadership, in Veressa's case that would be the Council of Six and Khadgar.

Void elves and Lightforged dranei also have "no land of their own", mind you. Also, I'm baffled at how you can talk about "major roles a race play in its faction", when the races who joined a faction are relevant during the expansion they're added, but then become largely ignored and/or irrelevant for the vast majority of their time until Blizzard decides to give them some fifteen minutes of fame every... three expansions or so?

The starting experience of the Pandaren is irrelevant.

Absolutely no one wants the Pandaren starting experience! Stop insisting in that stupid strawman!

Blood Elves are High Elves.

But not all high elves are blood elves. A fact you seem keen on ignoring.

In the context of who gets to decide what a High Elf is, it is appropriate that they group representing the vast majority of the race be accorded superior standing.

Nope. They decide only what goes for themselves. The high elves of the Silver Covenant, for example, are not forced to take on the name 'blood elves' just because a separate, bigger group of elves at Silvermoon decided to so. Especially if both groups are at odds with each other.

Are a unique case in that neither Tushui or Huojin speak on behalf of their entire race.

Neither do the high elves and blood elves. High elves speak for high elves, and blood elves speak for blood elves.

Yes, it does.

No, it doesn't.

Blood Elves ARE High Elves

Not all high elves are blood elves.

and the Blood Elves have the right to decide what a High Elf is.

No, they don't. They only have the right to decide what a blood elf is.

Your statement here, that Blood Elves are free to define themselves because what one race does, does not impact on another, is ridiculous.

I'm sad to hear you find common sense ridiculous.

They are the same race.

So are the Tushui and Huojin pandaren.

And they would fail, given that Blizzard has explicitly stated that what is regarded as the traditional High Elf fantasy is represented by the Blood Elves.

"If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

-Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

That's not the same thing as stating "blood elves define what a high elf is", especially considering a few years later, Blizzard admitted to thinking about the possibility of adding "high elf customization" for void elves.

Americans and English are two distinct groups now,

So are the high elves and blood elves

but it took centuries of time and multiple generations to arrive at that point.

Irrelevant, considering politics evolve and wars occur much, much more often in the Warcraft universe.

Blizzard has used High Elves as a minor story tool. What of it?

Means they still exist, and still relevant.

They've used Undead Elves expansion after expansion too and they aren't being made playable either.

How do you know that? How do you know "undead elves" won't become an allied race lather down this expansion, or in future expansions?

High Elves are not a core Alliance race.

They are. They are founding members. They aren't an Allied race. Given that the vast majority of the few who are still alive live in the neutral city of Dalaran, working inside the Silver Covenant which is pledged to the neutral Kirin Tor, the vast majority of them don't even live in Alliance territory. They have Alliance sympathies, sure. And some of them put on a 7th Legion uniform when they want to act on it.

But stop arguing that a non playable group, confirmed by multiple in game sources and word of god to have little in terms of population,

It's arguable that we have even less void elves than high elves in the world.

who live in a neutral city, are an Alliance race of any true standing.

They are an Alliance race. And how do you know that Dalaran won't become an Alliance city again in the future? One option that could be done is to "lock" their starting zone in time, like it is for the goblins and worgen.

[Varx]

Look I wont say anynore that the chance of future playable high elves is 0 as I'm not a blizz developer.

However, I feel pretty confident that high elves would be pretty low on their priority list. I'm talking bottom of the barrel, 5 expansions from now, wow is free to play level of priority.

The alliance already received thalasian elves and there's many more races that deserve the spot light than another thalasian off shoot that only differs in eye color and political views from its parent playable race.

As it stands goblins, undead, gnomes, and worgen dont have blizz confirmed ally races. You're a pitiful fool if you believe helves would take priority over them.

So i renounce on my 0 chance of high elves, cuz eventually wow will die and when that happens who the Fuck cares whats playable and not. Give us upside down elves too while they're at it.

[FlubberPuddy]

However, I feel pretty confident that high elves would be pretty low on their priority list.

Have always thought they wouldn't come around until well after every other race got their own variant. So agree here.

I'm talking bottom of the barrel, 5 expansions from now, wow is free to play level of priority.

I don't really agree here, but it's kinda whatever. I have a strong feeling the next time Alliance gets an elf it'll be High Elves. Purely because they're hinting at Wildhammer. I believe they really just wanted to come out with "very distinct races" as their first go-around of the Allied Races.

Even though they failed on that for HM Tauren and LF Draenei, the rest of the AR that have come out similar to their existing counterparts are admittedly more visually different.

As it stands goblins, undead, gnomes, and worgen dont have blizz confirmed ally races. You're a pitiful fool of helves would take priority over them.

Agree with this, anyone who thinks High Elves are coming out in BFA aren't taking into account other races that have yet to get their sort-of-counterpart races.

[Varx]

I'm still really sceptical about "repeat AR's" and by that i mean races such as wild hammer, high elves, other troll tribes, taunka, etc.

The reason for this are Mag'har orcs. If you think about it Mag'har orcs are multiple AR rolled into one. They got brown orcs, black orcs, tattooed orcs, etc.

If they were planning on having multiple AR for the same core race then why wouldn't they have saved the black orcs for let's say a dragonmaw/black rock orc AR or tattooed orcs for a bleeding hallow orc AR?

Because believe me of that was the case then I'd be on board with a helf AR as depicted in the OP.

Holy crap, I think that's it. Its the ultimate argument against helves. The Mag'har, and it's been under our noses all along!

As long as Mag'har hold all those different orc clans under one AR slot then there's 0 reason why helves or wildhammers or any other AR repeater deserve their own. I retract my previous statement.

Your only hope now are fairer skin options for velves which im sure would still be voidy with purplish hues because otherwise they wouldnt be velves now would they?


Bwahahahahahah!

[Obelisk Kai]

I'm still really sceptical about "repeat AR's" and by that i mean races such as wild hammer, high elves, other troll tribes, taunka, etc

...

Your only hope now are fairer skin options for velves which im sure would still be voidy with purplish hues because otherwise they wouldnt be velves now would they?

Some people believe that Allied races are operating on a sort of cycle. That Blizzard is introducing variants of each existing race now and that as soon as the cycle completes they will go right back to the beginning and begin adding in a second set of variants. So because we got Dark Iron Dwarves, Highmountain Tauren, Void Elves, Nightborne and Zandalari trolls this cycle in the next cycle we could expect to see Wildhammer Dwarves, Taunka, HIGH ELVES, Highborne, Forest Trolls etc.

The problem is, these people are wrong.

Allied races are coming thick and fast now because that is the point of BFA, the Horde and the Alliance seeking out new allies to bolster their ranks. Once BFA ends it has been confirmed that the cadence of allied race addition will dramatically slow down because Blizzard does not wish the identity of the Alliance and Horde to dissolve into meaninglessness with numerous allied races diluting them. Allied races will still happen but only where they make sense within the context of the story. And as these opportunities to add something new to the Alliance and Horde will become a lot rarer, a lot more sparing, I have strong doubts that races such as Wildhammer Dwarves, Forest Trolls and High Elves will be added as they are de facto already playable.

I agree that the fairer skin tones on Void Elves remains a possibility, albeit an unlikely one. I also concur that they probably wouldn't be High Elf like enough, as to be High Elf exact would undermine the thematic integrity of the Void Elves. Your suggestion that they would still be 'voidy' is probably correct.

[Varx]

Some people believe that Allied races are operating on a sort of cycle. That Blizzard is introducing variants of each existing race now and that as soon as the cycle completes they will go right back to the beginning and begin adding in a second set of variants. So because we got Dark Iron Dwarves, Highmountain Tauren, Void Elves, Nightborne and Zandalari trolls this cycle in the next cycle we could expect to see Wildhammer Dwarves, Taunka, HIGH ELVES, Highborne, Forest Trolls etc.

The problem is, these people are wrong.

Allied races are coming thick and fast now because that is the point of BFA, the Horde and the Alliance seeking out new allies to bolster their ranks. Once BFA ends it has been confirmed that the cadence of allied race addition will dramatically slow down because Blizzard does not wish the identity of the Alliance and Horde to dissolve into meaninglessness with numerous allied races diluting them. Allied races will still happen but only where they make sense within the context of the story. And as these opportunities to add something new to the Alliance and Horde will become a lot rarer, a lot more sparing, I have strong doubts that races such as Wildhammer Dwarves, Forest Trolls and High Elves will be added as they are de facto already playable.

I agree that the fairer skin tones on Void Elves remains a possibility, albeit an unlikely one. I also concur that they probably wouldn't be High Elf like enough, as to be High Elf exact would undermine the thematic integrity of the Void Elves. Your suggestion that they would still be 'voidy' is probably correct.

Of course they're wrong. Especially with our Mag'har overlords and their glorious culture and biological differences lurking in our character creation screens under ONE option.

Rejoice fellow anti high elfers for i have found our answer. Hail metzen.

I picture those options like a dark skin tight aura and blond hair with maybe void high lights and tentacles. Kinda like an imperfect transformation but just void enough. Would be neat imo.

[Garfurion]

I'm still really sceptical about "repeat AR's" and by that i mean races such as wild hammer, high elves, other troll tribes, taunka, etc.

The reason for this are Mag'har orcs. If you think about it Mag'har orcs are multiple AR rolled into one. They got brown orcs, black orcs, tattooed orcs, etc.

If they were planning on having multiple AR for the same core race then why wouldn't they have saved the black orcs for let's say a dragonmaw/black rock orc AR or tattooed orcs for a bleeding hallow orc AR?

Because believe me of that was the case then I'd be on board with a helf AR as depicted in the OP.

The orcs were introduced fairly recently as a unified group while dwarves and trolls are less united. Also, the orc clans are mostly customization options. The Wildhammer, Frostborne, Stormpike and Dark Iron are not really a unified group and Wildhammers/Frostborne with flaming beards make little sense.

There are still a lot of players with fond memories of wc2 and 3 who remember the units (such as kudran and his gryphon riders) in these games and want to play them in WoW. Probably very few original WoW devs are still around, let alone WC2 or 3 devs. Blizzard therefore probably underestimated the popularity of the Wildhammers and the art department maybe considered them too boring in terms of customization.

The same goes for trolls. In the case of Taunka and Yaungol they were based on older Tauren model and pose some challenges with head gear.

In the case of the Frostborne & Taunka I can also imagine they want to wait for another northrend expansion.

[Varx]

The orcs were introduced fairly recently as a unified group while dwarves and trolls are less united. Also, the orc clans are mostly customization options. The Wildhammer, Frostborne, Stormpike and Dark Iron are not really a unified group and Wildhammers/Frostborne with flaming beards make little sense.

There are still a lot of players with fond memories of wc2 and 3 who remember the units (such as kudran and his gryphon riders) in these games and want to play them in WoW. Probably very few original WoW devs are still around, let alone WC2 or 3 devs. Blizzard therefore probably underestimated the popularity of the Wildhammers and the art department maybe considered them too boring in terms of customization.

The same goes for trolls. In the case of Taunka and Yaungol they were based on older Tauren model and pose some challenges with head gear.

In the case of the Frostborne & Taunka I can also imagine they want to wait for another northrend expansion.

They were introduced that way because thats how blizz spinned it in the lore to fit the inclusion of Mag'har. If they wanted to they could have easily made mag'har as brown orcs only and saved black orcs for a blackrock or dragonmaw AR, but they didn't.

So again why should helves or wildhammers get their own slot when Dragonmaw or blackrock dont.

[Obelisk Kai]

What compromise? By not giving players the high elves they were asking for? The whole argument about "faction diversity" crumbles because void elves don't possess different models or animations than the blood elf model. Having different skin tones is meaningless when the overwhelming majority of armor in the game covers the entire body. On top of that, it's easy to identify friend and foe since, even in PvE, players of different factions have different-colored outlines and names.

The pro High Elf community has been asking for a duplicate of a Horde race. High Elves cannot be meaningfully differentiated from Blood Elves as they are the same people without ceasing to be High Elves. Void Elves, who have been meaningfully differentiated, are a case in point. Void Elves have a unique theme and aesthetic all of their own. If you believed what you were typing about how 'faction diversity' has crumbled as a result of the Void Elves, you would have accepted Void Elves as the compromise they are clearly intended to be and would stop requesting they make a Horde race neutral.

Like it or not, Void Elves ARE a compromise. The model without the theme or aesthetic. Anything further would not have been compromise but the Alliance getting a Horde race duplicate.

The pandaren race throw your entire argument out the window. They literally are what you argue is "not enough" to make different races. They are literally the exact same race, differing only in political/philosophical views. They don't even have the luxury of having even the slightest physical difference like high elves and blood elves have, which is eye color.

You keep using the Pandaren as some sort of trump card. Once again, the concept of neutrality was a mistake.

As evidence,

https://twitter.com/ghostcrawler/sta...384129?lang=en
@Ghostcrawler how do you feel having Pandarian shared between both factions has worked out? Would you do the same if new races were added?
@Sivation Not a fan of it overall. We just didn't want to deny anyone Pandaren.

I actually contacted Ghostcrawler a few years later and asked him about this. He had left Blizzard at this point but his response was telling.

"What is more important: faction identity or more options for Alliance?"

High Elves would be an extra option for the Alliance. Faction identity was important because Blood Elves, who are High Elves, are a part of the Horde.

Face it, Pandaren are neutral because of how new races were introduced in the past before MOP. You had one race per side, with a male and female model each and two levelling zones per race that had to be filled with quests. They were clearly an attempt to relieve some of the pressure on the content pipeline because they literally halved the work whilst seeing how a neutral race would work. They had three further opportunities to introduce a neutral race after Pandaren, but never did it because the cost to faction identity was too great.

Further evidence is that when the Allied Race system was introduced, an almost tailor made system for introducing High Elves, a variant nobody had ever thought of was created and added to the Alliance in their stead. When asked about this, the game director on two separate occasions stated faction identity was the reason, that Blood Elves are High Elves.

The Allied race system itself, by allowing Blizzard to repurpose existing models and doing away with the need for those starter zones, means we will likely never see a new race introduced as the Pandaren were ever again.

Neutrality was a mistake, not an answer and Blizzard is not obligated to repeat that mistake. And simply continually saying 'but Pandaren-' by the mere fact they exist, ignoring the context, ignoring Blizzard's clear regret, ignoring Blizzard's emphasis on faction diversity.

You learn from your mistakes. You don't repeat them.

No. I didn't pick an "arbitrary number". I picked 'fifteen years' because it's how long it's been since the Horde has been formed. When I hear the term "core members", I imagine that they are the members who were there since the beginning, and did not join after the fact.

Which ironically excludes High Elves as a core Alliance member even from the Warcraft 2 days as they joined well after the establishment of the faction. It also excludes the Tauren from being a core member of the Horde as they joined decades after the Horde was formed on Draenor and a year or so after Thrall reformed the Horde. Nor does your criteria, which I assume was predicated on the mistake High Elves were present from the start, explain what happens if a 'core' race there since the beginning leaves the faction. No, your definition is far too arbitrary and is leading, you wish to shape conclusions about the identity of the factions by setting strict criteria (which ironically High Elves flunk) The better definition is the one I rely on, if you can play them without having to unlock them they are a core race of that faction.

Void elves and Lightforged dranei also have "no land of their own", mind you. Also, I'm baffled at how you can talk about "major roles a race play in its faction", when the races who joined a faction are relevant during the expansion they're added, but then become largely ignored and/or irrelevant for the vast majority of their time until Blizzard decides to give them some fifteen minutes of fame every... three expansions or so?

Tel'rogus and the Xenedar are their areas. As for being 'relevant', we look around at every Horde base and we seem them present, working for the faction. High Elves in the Alliance are noticeable because they are so rare. Four this expansion, two of which are generic NPCs holding a shield.

But not all high elves are blood elves. A fact you seem keen on ignoring.

Irrelevant. Not all Humans are defias but Defias don't qualify as allied race material due to their difference of opinion with Stormwind. Blood Elves are the playable High Elves of WoW just as Stormwind Humans are the playable Humans.

That's not the same thing as stating "blood elves define what a high elf is", especially considering a few years later, Blizzard admitted to thinking about the possibility of adding "high elf customization" for void elves.

No, they were asked about the possibility without raising it themselves and the response placed an emphasis on good conduct on the forums. If I were to ask Blizzard 'Are Ogres possible in future?' I am sure the response would be more or less the same. Yes, it is possible. Anything is possible. Likely is another matter. Also, Void Elves with fair skin would still be Void Elves.

They are. They are founding members.

They are not founding members, they specifically refused to join in the very beginning when the Alliance was founded. Saying they are founding members is head canon.

[Garfurion]

Of course they're wrong. Especially with our Mag'har overlords and their glorious culture and biological differences lurking in our character creation screens under ONE option.

Rejoice fellow anti high elfers for i have found our answer. Hail metzen.

I picture those options like a dark skin tight aura and blond hair with maybe void high lights and tentacles. Kinda like an imperfect transformation but just void enough. Would be neat imo.

I think it would be better to give Void Elves and out-of-combat High Elf skin option (similar to Worgen who are transformed automatically when entering combat) for RP purposes which would also make them more similar to Alleria (who should get a similar void skin option).

[Varx]

I think it would be better to give Void Elves and out-of-combat High Elf skin option (similar to Worgen who are transformed automatically when entering combat) for RP purposes which would also make them more similar to Alleria (who should get a similar void skin option).

I could kind of maybe get behind that except that void elves are banished blood elves, which to a lot of purists in this cesspool is blasphemy to their helf boners.

Another issue is the velves who are full on drenched in grape juice. They wouldn't get some extra mechanic like worgens.

Idk if anyone here watches RWBY but if you do you've seen how it looks when their aura goes down. Thats what i picture for "helf" options for velves except that itd b permanent.

[Garfurion]

They were introduced that way because thats how blizz spinned it in the lore to fit the inclusion of Mag'har. If they wanted to they could have easily made mag'har as brown orcs only and saved black orcs for a blackrock or dragonmaw AR, but they didn't.

So again why should helves or wildhammers get their own slot when Dragonmaw or blackrock dont.

be happy they did it this way. The more orc customization options the better as for your question ask Blizzard

I don't think there is a long term plan/list for AR apart from BFA and maybe some potential ideas for the next expansion.

Personally I don't think Mag'har would have required their own AR slot. They already added the upright option for green orcs, don't really require different racial abilities and the rest could have been customization options so in a way Mag'har waste an AR slot. Lorewise the "green" orcs should at some point start give birth to more brownish offspring anyway assuming the fel corruptions wears off.

Lightforged Draenei also waste a slot imho. They don't differ enough culturally from normal Draenei but I guess with AR being a core feature of BFA they did it this way.

[Varx]

be happy they did it this way. The more orc customization options the better as for your question ask Blizzard

I don't think there is a long term plan/list for AR apart from BFA and maybe some potential ideas for the next expansion.

Personally I don't think Mag'har would have required their own AR slot. They already added the upright option for green orcs, don't really require different racial abilities and the rest could have been customization options so in a way Mag'har waste an AR slot. Lorewise the "green" orcs should at some point start give birth to more brownish offspring anyway assuming the fel corruptions wears off.

Lightforged Draenei also waste a slot imho. They don't differ enough culturally from normal Draenei but I guess with AR being a core feature of BFA they did it this way.

Well if you feel that way about LF you can imagine how half of this thread feels against helves.

Also, im perfectly fine with how Mag'har was handled. I actually predicted they'd be an AR after bfa was announced. Even as WoD orcs with all the clans.

I'm just using them as an example as to why helves, wildhammers and other races that already have an AR shouldn't get another just to make little tommy's dreams of being a taunka after playing Wrath back in middle school come true.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure Blizzard will NOT add high elves, instead they will give blonde/pink skin option to void elves and everyone will be happy, make it quest line like, similar to night elves black eyes thing. Probably a story about how someone made a discovery how to undo void effects but oh no oh no u cannot fully undo it. Wait and you'll see it

[Varx]

For Jacobus. Eh idk about that. That would be like black people going on a quest to bleach their skin when there's no need to.

Void elves are proud that they were able to overcome the void's madness and corruption. Why would they want to reverse the effects?

[Garfurion]

I could kind of maybe get behind that except that void elves are banished blood elves, which to a lot of purists in this cesspool is blasphemy to their helf boners.

That problem is hard to solve anyway. Any attempt to come up with a reason for High/Blood Elves to willingly convert to Void Elves just makes the lore more retarded. Maybe X'alateth can be part of a solution to transform some High Elves, but 2 voidy windrunner sisters doesn't make sense storywise.

As long as Alleria looks like her lovely WC2 self though I don't think High-Elf fans will accept anything less "normal".

[Ielenia]

The pro High Elf community has been asking for a duplicate of a Horde race. High Elves cannot be meaningfully differentiated from Blood Elves as they are the same people without ceasing to be High Elves.

That entire argument went out the window the moment Pandaren were introduced. The two races are indistinguishable from each other. High elves and blood elves have more differences between themselves than Tushui and Huojin pandaren do. And no, the void elves weren't a compromise. A fact made excruciatingly obvious by the fact that void elves are blood elves, not high elves.

You keep using the Pandaren as some sort of trump card. Once again, the concept of neutrality was a mistake.

I'll reinforce what I wrote above: if pandaren being added didn't throw the "faction identity" out the window, then the addition of Allied Races did. And closed the window shut after that. Because the Horde now has the Nightborne, which have animations and (roughly) the same model of the night elves, and the Alliance have the void elves that have the exact same model and animations as the blood elves.

Neutrality was a mistake, not an answer and Blizzard is not obligated to repeat that mistake. And simply continually saying 'but Pandaren-' by the mere fact they exist, ignoring the context, ignoring Blizzard's clear regret, ignoring Blizzard's emphasis on faction diversity.

You learn from your mistakes. You don't repeat them.

Ghostcrawler thinks, personally, that it was a mistake, in that tweet. Just because he was lead developer doesn't mean his personal opinion reflects the entire team's or even Blizzard's opinion.

Which ironically excludes High Elves as a core Alliance member even from the Warcraft 2 days as they joined well after the establishment of the faction. It also excludes the Tauren from being a core member of the Horde as they joined decades after the Horde was formed on Draenor and a year or so after Thrall reformed the Horde. Nor does your criteria, which I assume was predicated on the mistake High Elves were present from the start, explain what happens if a 'core' race there since the beginning leaves the faction. No, your definition is far too arbitrary and is leading, you wish to shape conclusions about the identity of the factions by setting strict criteria (which ironically High Elves flunk) The better definition is the one I rely on, if you can play them without having to unlock them they are a core race of that faction.

Thrall created the Horde after the Founding of Durotar campaign. The Alliance already existed. Does that mean the night elves aren't part of the "core races" of the Alliance? Yes. They joined later.

As for being 'relevant', we look around at every Horde base and we seem them present, working for the faction. High Elves in the Alliance are noticeable because they are so rare. Four this expansion, two of which are generic NPCs holding a shield.

How many goblins did you see in Horde outposts prior to Cataclysm? Not many, I'd wager. But, again, the fact is that high elves are part of the Alliance, because we see high elves as part of the Alliance.

Irrelevant. Not all Humans are defias but Defias don't qualify as allied race material due to their difference of opinion with Stormwind.

It's not irrelevant. And you're not the one who decide what gets to be an allied race and what doesn't. By WoW's rules, the high elves do qualify as "allied race material" especially considering we have a "core race" that literally exists in both factions: the pandaren.

- - - Updated - - -

They were introduced that way because thats how blizz spinned it in the lore to fit the inclusion of Mag'har. If they wanted to they could have easily made mag'har as brown orcs only and saved black orcs for a blackrock or dragonmaw AR, but they didn't.

So again why should helves or wildhammers get their own slot when Dragonmaw or blackrock dont.

Because Blizzard already granted "their own slot" to Dark Iron dwarves and Highmountain tauren.

[Varx]

- - - Updated - - -


Because Blizzard already granted "their own slot" to Dark Iron dwarves and Highmountain tauren.

Wait what? Then you could argue that high elves lost their slot with velves.

Read my most recent posts my dude. The existence of Mag'har totally screws the possibility of Helves. If Blizzard was planning on making multiple AR's of the same core race then Mag'har wouldn't include every uncorrupted orc race under the sun as now their is no room for a dragonmaw AR, Blackrock AR, bleeding Hallow AR.

If you follow that simple logic then there is fat chance for AR's on races that have already been covered, so say good bye to High Elves, wilder hammers, forest trolls, eredar, alterac human, frost dwarf, Lepper Gnome (if mechagnomes are the Gnome AR), undead elves, or w/e other race you can think of.

Your only options is for lighter, yet still voidy, skin and hair options for your velves.

[FlubberPuddy]

So again why should helves or wildhammers get their own slot when Dragonmaw or blackrock dont.

Because Orc culture is literally the same for 95% of each of the clans. That maybe some use dragons, or maybe some use machinery vs those that are more mystic, etc. It all boils down to everything about Orc culture from honor, strength, mak'gora, etc are all the same for Orc clans.

That's why the comparison doesn't work. High Elves don't literally worship the Sunwell the same way Blood Elves do, they didn't have an autocratic leadership when High Elf/Blood Elf split occurred (simply due to relying on their allies), and while Blood Elves will do anything and everything they can for survival - this mentality/culture was not something High Elves shared.

The people who think High Elves and Blood Elves are literally the same thing are ignoring every piece of story progression that happened to both High Elves separately and Blood Elves separately after the infamous split and always harken back to before the split even happened. But even that's kind of wrong because Chronicles Vol 3 shows there was a difference in mindset between Dalaran High Elves (which Kael'thas himself notes and was a part of) vs Silvermoon/Quel'thalas High Elves which happens to still be portrayed today.

Also, the literal reason given for why Mag'har were given all Orc clans is simply due to them saying just having Brown Orcs only wouldn't have made them look that different in armor from existing Orcs so they decided to make the AR have more substance to include all Orc clans from Draenor.

Another thing, Dark Irons existing separately from Bronzebeards proves your claim wrong. Because Dark Iron are part of the council of Three Hammers which is like Orc clans. You'd have to give a reason for why Dark Iron were separated if you're trying to claim your Mag'har example as a rule that Blizzard follows. If you say Dark Iron are due to the difference in culture and habits then you've just defeated yourself because that's the reason Orc Clans are a thing - they have the same culture and habits.

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Blizzard's Jeremy Feasel literally acknowledged there are Wildhammer fans out there and it results in them brainstorming cool ideas. If you think Wildhammer aren't happening at some point then you either hadn't seen this news or are being ignorant about it.

No way Blizzard will purposely acknowledge in a positive manner there are fans of X race and then give them nothing. Feel free to prove me wrong here.

The question then becomes how will Wildhammer be implemented and this will give insight into how High Elves (among other similar "races") can be implemented.