1. #841
    I'm kind of disappointed with customization options for Void Elves because somehow despite having the most options, all the males have the same face and they only have three hair colors. So I've been making my own concept art of what they could be. I know this may not belong here but I figure the topics are close enough.

    So what do you guys think?



  2. #842
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    So you're idea now is for a bunch of High Elves to be subjected to strange, powerful magics that will give them a more magical appearance?
    Actually it was the idea of having the High Elves from Outland return to the Alliance. "Magical appearance" is obviously meh imo.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    Sorry to have highjacked your thread for today, Traycor
    That's great, RangerDaz! I've been very busy the last few days so I'm glad the topic has continued without me!


    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    Blizzard has included High Elves and Blood Elves as separate quel'thalas elf factions since warcraft III:

    - they protected the alliance side of Dalaran and were the alliance representatives in the Argent tournament;
    - Vereesa and Jaina joined forces to fight the horde after the Theramore bombing, and the silver covenant had a big role in the Isle of Thunder and expelling the blood elves from Dalaran;
    - Led by Vereesa, they joined the forces that freed Suramar from the legion, together with the night elves and blood elves. Vereesa, Tyrande and Liadrin joined First Arcanist Thalyssra in an all star ladies group leading the four iconic elven races together to fight Elisande;
    - There are High Elves in the class halls.
    Good stuff! I should probably include this in the OP. Maybe in my 2nd post? The first post is really long.

    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    One thing that could differentiate high elves and blood elves could be the holy energies of the sunwell. Paladins and priests could be Blood Elf only, maybe?
    Because Blizz has really pushed the Light angle with the Blood Elves, it could make sense to have the High Elves cut off, "for the good of Quel'Thelas". It would upset some players, but lore wise it would make for an interesting story. Unfortunately I think Blizz was pushing this direction which ultimately led to the Void Elves, which was about 12 steps too far.

    I'd be okay with High Elves that couldn't be Priests or Paladins. But you would need to include either Shamans or Druids and include lore reasons for doing so. Wildhammer Dwarves and Night Elves could teach them respectively. They've been around both for long enough that it would require almost no explanation at this point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeletov View Post
    So what do you guys think?
    I like how the face is very different from the current Void Elf choices, who suffer from same face.

  3. #843
    Alliance Wish List?

    1. Upright Worgen/Fixed Worgen Models
    2. High Elf Allied Race (And no, Blood Elves aren't High Elves)
    3. Vrykul Allied Race
    4. Wildhammer Dwarf Allied Race (Skinnier, slightly taller than standard Dwarves)
    5. Lightforged Human Allied Race (My personal wish. Lordaeronian Humans who, through the help of Turalyon, undergo the process to become Lightforged and devote themselves to the reclamation of Lordaeron under the leadership of Calia Menethil)

  4. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
    Alliance Wish List?

    1. Upright Worgen/Fixed Worgen Models
    2. High Elf Allied Race (And no, Blood Elves aren't High Elves)
    3. Vrykul Allied Race
    4. Wildhammer Dwarf Allied Race (Skinnier, slightly taller than standard Dwarves)
    5. Lightforged Human Allied Race (My personal wish. Lordaeronian Humans who, through the help of Turalyon, undergo the process to become Lightforged and devote themselves to the reclamation of Lordaeron under the leadership of Calia Menethil)
    1- es
    2- No Blood Elves and void elves are high elves and it was sayed by ION so stop it pls
    3- 100% yes
    4- yes and no, sounds more of "dwarf customization rather its own allied race"
    5- ok done

    Personaly i would love they introduce Valarjar as something for the Alliance, like "Odyn: oh look Sylvanas is working with Helya time to help the alliance for the sake of the world HAHAHAHA" boom Valarjar stormforged vrykul for the Alliance.

  5. #845
    Quote Originally Posted by Kemsa View Post
    1- es
    2- No Blood Elves and void elves are high elves and it was sayed by ION so stop it pls
    3- 100% yes
    4- yes and no, sounds more of "dwarf customization rather its own allied race"
    5- ok done

    Personaly i would love they introduce Valarjar as something for the Alliance, like "Odyn: oh look Sylvanas is working with Helya time to help the alliance for the sake of the world HAHAHAHA" boom Valarjar stormforged vrykul for the Alliance.
    2. And they've said things in the past they've walked back on, such as Kezan being destroyed in Cata, Zandalar largely being wiped out after ToT, Emerald Nightmare no longer a threat, the amount of Old Gods, etc.

    4. 90% of Maghar orcs should have been customization for Orcs. They weren't. They were given new lines, heritage armor and mounts. Wildhammer deserve the same.

  6. #846
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    they do not have huge presence though, just some token appearance to be the blood elf antagonists, because muh tolkien, with VE now they will not need then anymore
    High Elves are literally all over the place on the Alpha with the VE's barely even existing, if at all.

  7. #847
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krothare View Post
    High Elves are literally all over the place on the Alpha with the VE's barely even existing, if at all.
    the only high elf npc in BfA so far is one guy in the island expedition, under Jaina command

  8. #848
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    the only high elf npc in BfA so far is one guy in the island expedition, under Jaina command
    I think they mean Warcraft Alpha/Beta back before Vanilla launched in 2004.

  9. #849
    Quote Originally Posted by Kemsa View Post
    2- No Blood Elves and void elves are high elves and it was sayed by ION so stop it pls

    Yes, this is true i guess. I found the transcript on another thread:


    Jesse Cox: So will Mag'har orcs and high elves be a thing? Well, that hasn't been revealed so probably not.

    Ion Hazzikostas: I mean, Mag-, Draenor orcs, I mean, that's certainly a place we could turn in the future.

    JC: I know a lot of people are like, "Where's the brown orcs?!"

    IH: That's certainly an option for the future. High elves, honestly, like, spoilers guys, blood elves are pretty much high elves,
    void elves are also pretty much another flavor of high elves, so...

    JC: Are there any major high elf hubs left? Where you could be like, "Of course there are adventurers willing to
    come from there." I don't think so.

    IH: I don't think so.

    JC: Yeah, so, I don't know where they'd come from to begin with.

    IH: Yeah, they've basically just been assimilated into other cultures.

    JC: Yeah. Uhhh - "Please high elves." I feel bad. Yeah. Feels bad man. Sorry, Zout.

    IH: Yeah.





    However, one single blizzard employee, even being a director, doesn't take all gameplay decisions. (I think he doesn't even remember the wow lore...). Let me also tell you what i wrote below the transcription:



    I think Ion doesn't even remember the details of the game.
    Does he know that the silver covenant was relevant in the suramar storyline?

    As i said many times now, it is Blizzard's call. The Lore exists for High Elves, expecially in WoW
    (Dalaran, Argent tournament, Thunder Isle, Purging of Dalaran, Freeing Suramar, ...)

    It is more a gameplay decision than a Lore decision. Do they feel it is right to add a new elven race instead of another different race?

  10. #850
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
    I think they mean Warcraft Alpha/Beta back before Vanilla launched in 2004.
    i don't think so, since he talked about VE too...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    I think Ion doesn't even remember the details of the game.
    Does he know that the silver covenant was relevant in the suramar storyline?
    i do think he know about this subject, you need to be 1- naive 2- retarded to think blizzard and him didn't talked about HE and all the possibilities and ways for them to be playable, thy just saw it could not be done without a major like what they did with VE

    and the silver covenant in LEgion just show up as cameo and to be insulted by elisande, the alliance focus was on the night elves and tyrande
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2018-03-29 at 12:05 PM.

  11. #851
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post

    i do think he know about this subject, you need to be 1- naive 2- retarded to think blizzard and him didn't talked about HE and all the possibilities and way for to be playable, thy just saw it could not e don without a major like what they did with VE

    and the silver covenant in LEgion just show up as cameo and to be insulted by elisande, the alliance focus was on the night elves and tyrande
    Please pal, no insults. Let's keep this constructive.

    Guess i'll be repeating myself in two different high elf threads at the same time.
    I'm just copy paste my answer to a similar comment like yours:


    Ion is a diretor of Blizzard and is doing a similar role as Ghostcrawler once did.
    But I say again: one person doesn't make all decisions, and doesn't remember all details. it is not absurd, because he doesn't even take in consideration the role of the silver covenant since wrath of the lich king. Check the details how insecure he was about what he was saying:


    JC: Are there any major high elf hubs left? Where you could be like, "Of course there are adventurers willing to come from there." I don't think so.
    IH: I don't think so.
    JC: Yeah, so, I don't know where they'd come from to begin with.
    IH: Yeah, they've basically just been assimilated into other cultures.

    First he admits he isn't sure ("i don't think so" expresses a possible doubt).
    Second he says high elves are assimilated by other cultures. But he forgets an exclusive faction made of high elves. So what is the silver covenant, then?

    But Blizzard created Lore for the Silver Covenant, not me or other high elf fans. They exist, even as a militia faction. (I don't even remember how they got together? Maybe Chronicles III will tell that).




    I'm not sure of the Silver Covenant is a big or small militia, or if they are a faction furniture. They exist in WoW lore since the same time as the Ebon Blade, and look how much relevance the ebon blade had in Legion. Here is Gamepedia definition of the Silver Covenant:

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Silver_Covenant

    I do not know what the Chronicles III will say about them. Whatever it is, it will be the new retcon of the warcraft lore.

  12. #852
    Love the concept art of this thread, really inspiring, and very unique too, we don't have that type of aesthetic represented in-game yet.

  13. #853
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    Please pal, no insults. Let's keep this constructive.
    oh no i didn't insult no one, just sayin the posibilities, of people don't seeing the obvious

    you can claim he don't have all the powers, and don't know about a lot of things, but he IS the game director, he knew about this, it is pretty much safe to say the allied race is a conjecture idea from him too, since in 2014 he talked about wanting to ADD subraces such as maghar AND high elves, so, they knew bout then, they knew people wan then, and they discussed about then,you can't deny this

    they just decide they could not add then without a drastic change, by gameplay and lore reasons ( way more Gameplay of course)


    First he admits he isn't sure ("i don't think so" expresses a possible doubt).
    he is just being Ion, do you watch his Q&A? he always talk like this in very subject

    Second he says high elves are assimilated by other cultures. But he forgets an exclusive faction made of high elves. So what is the silver covenant, then
    ?

    it is true actually, HE are assimilate with human culture, the silver covenant is assimilated with Dalaran

    I'm not sure of the Silver Covenant is a big or small militia,
    they are small milita, or should be, when you don't replaced the losses the numbers decrease, compare in WtLK the silver covenant was full HE, but in MOP they are not enough, and was a mix of humans and elves

    the point blizz did a poor job focusing on HE ( i mean the error was retcon and make then exist anyway) but they focus on then because the LotR cliche, to be the enemies of BE, with VE the HE will jus fade away, cause they will need to focus on the playable race, and 2 elves is enough
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2018-03-29 at 12:20 PM.

  14. #854
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    oh no i didn't insult no one, just sayin the posibilities, of people don't seeing the obvious

    you can claim he don't have all the powers, and don't know about a lot of things, but he IS the game director, he knew about this, it is pretty much safe to say the allied race is a conjecture idea from him too, since in 2014 he talked about wanting to ADD subraces such as maghar AND high elves, so, they knew bout then, they knew people wan then, and they discussed about then,you can't deny this

    they just decide they could not add then without a drastic change, by gameplay and lore reasons ( way more Gameplay of course)



    he is just being Ion, do you watch his Q&A? he always talk like this in very subject

    ?

    it is true actually, HE are assimilate with human culture, the silver covenant is assimilated with Dalaran



    they are small milita, or should be, when you don't replaced the losses the numbers decrease, compare in WtLK the silver covenant was full HE, but in MOP they are not enough, and was a mix of humans and elves

    the point blizz did a poor job focusing on HE ( i mean the error was retcon and make then exist anyway) but they focus on then because the LotR cliche, to be the enemies of BE, with VE the HE will jus fade away, cause they will need to focus on the playable race, and 2 elves is enough
    Before we start going in circles, im going to reply as short as possible:

    - i keep the same no insults request. I show respect while writing to you, i hope to receive the same respect.
    - companies like blizzard usually work as a team with many teams working in different things about their products. Whatever role ion has on allied races choice only blizzard knows. At the moment he is the PR of the companies new products. He seems to lack full knowledge on the high elf situation as i explained above.
    - for me assimilated means diluted / dissolved / lost their identity. The silver covenant seems to stand on its own and is able to create an army on its own.
    - it is not important what both you and i think about the size and relevance of the silver covenant and of the high elves. It is blizzard's franchise and they can retcon lore at their will all the time they want to. The only thing we have for granted is that they exist and had important roles in the past of wow, including joining forces with other elven races to free suramar from the legion
    Last edited by RangerDaz; 2018-03-29 at 02:38 PM.

  15. #855
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    Before we start going in circles, im going to reply as short as possible:

    - i keep the same no insults request. I show respect while writing to you, i hope to receive the same respect.
    and again i didn't insult no one, not even you

    - companies like blizzard usually work as a team with many teams working in different things about their products. Whatever role ion has on allied races choice only blizzard knows. At the moment he is the PR of the companies new products. He seems to lack full knowledge on the high elf situation as i explained above.
    he is the only one to bring up the high elf subrace as possibility in public, yeah he knew about it, he was apt of it as Leader game designer

    i don't think he lack knowledge, everythin he talk is true, the problem is, goes against the headcanon of HE-fans

    - for me assimilated means diluted / dissolved / lost their identity. The silver covenant seems to stand on its own and is able to create an army on its own.
    but this already happened, silver covenant is a faction under dalaran, a human city, they do not stand on its own

    - it is not important what both you and i think about the size and relevance of the silver covenant and of the high elves. It is blizzard's franchise and they can retcon lore at their will all the time they want to.

    its not what i think, is what is showed, sure blizz can retcon lore, but they will not just to appease some angry fans because they scream loud enough, this is not how retcon works

    this reason, would make possible dwarfs on the horde, and other bizzare things

    The only thing we have for granted is that they exist and had important roles in the past of wow, including joining forces with other elven races to free suramar from the legion
    they exist, sure, important roles, a bit, but nothing much extraordinary, like i said, most of then was cameos like in legion and cataclysm,or just to be Blood elf antagonists, like in WtLK and MOP, note that they never had their own development, they just develop Blood elf lore or elf lore in general, even Veressa is set up to develop sylvanas and now alleria

  16. #856
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    and again i didn't insult no one, not even you



    he is the only one to bring up the high elf subrace as possibility in public, yeah he knew about it, he was apt of it as Leader game designer

    i don't think he lack knowledge, everythin he talk is true, the problem is, goes against the headcanon of HE-fans



    but this already happened, silver covenant is a faction under dalaran, a human city, they do not stand on its own




    its not what i think, is what is showed, sure blizz can retcon lore, but they will not just to appease some angry fans because they scream loud enough, this is not how retcon works

    this reason, would make possible dwarfs on the horde, and other bizzare things



    they exist, sure, important roles, a bit, but nothing much extraordinary, like i said, most of then was cameos like in legion and cataclysm,or just to be Blood elf antagonists, like in WtLK and MOP, note that they never had their own development, they just develop Blood elf lore or elf lore in general, even Veressa is set up to develop sylvanas and now alleria
    Ok this last conversation went much better. And we seem to agree in a few things.

    As i already said in other posts, if high elf race ever comes live, it will be a gameplay decision by blizzard, not a lore decision, as many times lore adapts to new gameplay changes (see void elves for example).

    Blizzard's big question is: is bringing high elves as a playable race a good choice vs. other available choices? I believe right now this isnt being considered as they have already announced void elves. But maybe in the future, who knows. You hope not. I hope they do. And our opinions will stay divergent like that for a while.

  17. #857
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    I'm back and with renewed vigor, Ion seriously doesn't know what he's talking about sometimes I'm not entirely saying it's his fault because there is A LOT of lore for him to remember but he should make sure he's fully aware of what he's saying before he actually opens his mouth.

    We will get our High Elves one day I asure you! There are plenty of us fighting the good fight and I put most of naysayers on ignore cause they only exist to try and piss on everyones cheerio's.
    Ion knows exactly what he is talking about, and putting your faith in the game director being wrong is not a basis for success.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    Ok this last conversation went much better. And we seem to agree in a few things.

    As i already said in other posts, if high elf race ever comes live, it will be a gameplay decision by blizzard, not a lore decision, as many times lore adapts to new gameplay changes (see void elves for example).

    Blizzard's big question is: is bringing high elves as a playable race a good choice vs. other available choices? I believe right now this isnt being considered as they have already announced void elves. But maybe in the future, who knows. You hope not. I hope they do. And our opinions will stay divergent like that for a while.
    Well then let's ignore all the lore issues and just dump them over in a pile and focus on the gameplay issues.

    Would High Elves be a good choice gameplay wise?

    And the answer is again, no.

    Here are the reasons.

    1.) Faction identity. Blizzard is very keen on World of Warcraft remaining a faction based game. The next expansion is even based on the resumption of the faction war. Furthermore while we have heard from some at Blizzard that neutral races were not a great idea, nobody has spoken up in defense of it since nor has any new neutral race been added.

    Some players are fixated on the Warcraft 2 iteration of the Horde and Alliance as if they were gospel and any deviation from that template is akin to heresy, but it;s time to accept that the factions now are not as they were. Blood Elves are an important part of a broader, multi cultural Horde. Making Blood Elves de facto neutral just muddies the faction wall at a time Blizzard wants to stoke it higher.

    2.)Blood Elves are High Elves, that is a lore reason but with an important gameplay connotation. As Blood Elves are High Elves, and as the golden eyes have shown us there is no longer any point in saying the Blood Elves are fel tainted as a point of difference, then the traditional High Elf fantasy is already in game. By traditional I of course mean the High Elven trope in fantasy generally from Lord of the Rings to Everquest to Warhammer etc. etc. I define the High Elven fantasy as magical (the magisters), paladins (blood knights) and rangers (the farstriders). Blood Elves therefore cover every meaningful aspect of the High Elf fantasy. As Blizzard probably found when they considered a High Elf allied race, which they almost certainly did, they could not justify duplicating that experience.

    After all, the cursed Undead fantasy is Horde unique. The werewolf fantasy is Alliance unique. The Dwarf fantasy is alliance unique. The fact that the experience is available is all that matters, that it is unique to one faction is immaterial it seems. In fact, that these fantasies are unique to their respective faction is part of what builds up faction diversity to begin with. High Elves offer nothing you cannot get with a Blood Elf. And if you feel it is unfair that you have to be Horde to indulge in that fantasy, many other people are in the same boat regarding different race/faction combinations.

    3.) Blood Elves are popular. It's well known that part of the reason Blood Elves were added to the Horde was to overcome the population imbalance prevalent throughout Vanilla. And they were so successful that not only are they today the Horde's most popular race, but members of the other faction have been demanding they be made neutral for over a decade. Mission accomplished then. Making them de facto neutral strips the Horde of one of it's most powerful tools for attracting players into it's ranks.

    4.)They'd ruin Void Elves: Void Elves, the obvious compromise that seems to get lost the longer this argument goes on. Too many here think that High Elves can be argued for on their own merit, when that's impossible. The other thalassian options are always there casting a shadow. Now leaving aside the Blood Elves, the Void Elves were added as both a way to allow the Alliance to play the model without getting the race (none of the three core aspects of the traditional High Elven fantasy apply to them now) and of getting a race with ties to the void in. Within the Alliance they are a distinct group, they have a role and while they may not have a past beyond their history as Blood Elves (oh wait so they do have a past...) they do have a future, especially given how the story is going. High Elves would instantly make Void Elves redundant, because who would play the blue mutant freak when you can have the lovely, unblemished elf with normal skin tones. You'd also end up with a situation where the Alliance has access to TWO thalassian models with the Horde only have one, while the Horde actually has the vast majority of the thalassian population. That in itself is an unfair imbalance.

    5.) They'd take up the slot of something far more interesting. No matter which way you slice it, Allied races are going to come in pairs and Alliance High Elves would be paired with a Horde counterpart. Now personally, IF High Elves were ever to be a thing (and I am adamant that they should not be), a clone of the Horde's most popular race...then we should get a version of the Alliance's most popular race. Nathanos style Undead Humans. Frankly I think this is a terrible idea but that is the only thing approaching any level of equivalence. Whereas the Undead Nathanos clones would at least have some unique customizations...High Elves would not. In fact, whatever the Horde equivalent is, it's going to be better than the High Elves as a High Elf is just a Blood Elf clone.
    I would wager there would be FAR more Alliance players unhappy at having a race wasted on a duplicate, especially compared to what the Horde would be getting, and I wager this because the vast majority of players don't bother to visit the forums. First they'd know about it is seeing yet another elf pop up on the news feed. I think Blizzard can do without that shitshow. The High Elf demadn shitshow on the forums has been happily contained for a decade. Why change that now?

  18. #858
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    Traycor and other High Elf supporters, I just want to say keep on keeping on!

    It appears today that on the WoW Forums High Elf thread, a player from China SUBBED just to post! In order to let it be known that a forum of Chinese Warcraft players have seen the High Elf thread are in full support for High Elves to be added to Alliance.

  19. #859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    I saw I've been following the thread(s) for a while, I'm well proud, I'm from the EU as I said in another thread if I could afford it atm I would sub and show my support.

    Weill will carry this fight on for 12 more years if its the case we need to be heard by Blizz.


    Brings a tear to my eye the level of support being shown for playable Alliance High Elves.

  20. #860
    Then give us undead humans if u want the most popular horde race copied its only right we get yours in return
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    In other countries like Canada the population has chosen to believe in hope, peace and tolerance. This we can see from the election of the Honourable Justin Trudeau who stood against the politics of hate and divisiveness.

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