1. #8841
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    They're not "infusing". They're just raising dead ravasaurs. Try being precise next time.
    Even dead, they are still infusing these creatures with void energy and transforming them. This shows at least a mastery of the basics. It also happens to dovetail with what Moorgard said about how they are increasing their numbers.



    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Yet they're still all over the place. In Stormwind, Dalaran, Stromgarde, Boralus, the Isle of Thunder, in Telogrus Rift... even if that hurts you.

    They won't disappear anytime soon just because you hate them Obelisk Kai...

    High elves are an Alliance race since the beginning and is introduced in every expansion even after the addition of blood and void elves.
    Can you just enjoy your Horde Blood elves and let this thread for those who love that race instead of poisonning it every day seriously?
    They are not 'all over the place'. This group is so rare that every time a nameless Alliance High Elf NPC is added it seems to send the pro High Elf community into frenzy.
    And acknowledging their existence is hardly the same as endorsing them as a major Alliance race. In fact, the paucity of how many are added strongly suggests they are what they appear to be, a tiny nearly dead group whose few remaining individuals are used to add a bit of texture to the world. A story prop.

    And if you want an echo chamber, go the discord. All that is there are pro High Elfers and you can indulge your discussion of them, what class your High Elf will be, what the name you have picked out for him or her is (and reserved on a decade old level one alt most likely) and maybe even show off the transmogs you have planned for them whilst other pro High Elfers applaud your taste.

    On public forums, you have to deal with people who say no, Blood Elves ARE the High Elves of WoW and you have the option of playing one and nobody is stopping you but you.

  2. #8842
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    I have not taken the information out of context. I have provided both question and answer in my response, showing that the question (where are void elf numbers coming from?) has an answer (other elves are finding out about them and joining them).

    This is the only interpretation of what he is saying once you include the question. As I have stated before, the only reason people can have to resist this interpretation...the only interpretation... is that it validates the population argument as applying solely to Alliance High Elves. Rejecting a truth because of the implications it has for something else isn't a credible position.
    It isn't a truth. You are just arguing they are currently reducing high elf numbers because you want it to happen. That might eventually be a thing but it has been shown nowhere in game. There is no evidence that they are repoducing yet. You have to understand that he is a developer who has planned many plot points in advance. Why didn't he just say "Yes, high elves are joining the void elves en masse"? Because it's likely something they want to explore. Although I would find it funny if the Sunreavers end up being the first ones to duplicate that process.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    They're not "infusing". They're just raising dead ravasaurs. Try being precise next time.
    It is likely just void entities wearing the ravasaurs as meat suits rather than actual undeath. As Umbric says, the goal is to shock the Zandalari.

  3. #8843
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    On public forums, you have to deal with people who say no, Blood Elves ARE the High Elves of WoW and you have the option of playing one and nobody is stopping you but you.
    While it's true that I want high elves to be playable - or at the very least some high elven costumizations - I'm fine with my Alliance blood elf.

    Just stop poisonning it for people wanting them to be playable.

    Although I would find it funny if the Sunreavers end up being the first ones to duplicate that process.
    That would be a great idea.

  4. #8844
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    It isn't a truth. You are just arguing they are currently reducing high elf numbers because you want it to happen. That might eventually be a thing but it has been shown nowhere in game. There is no evidence that they are repoducing yet. You have to understand that he is a developer who has planned many plot points in advance. Why didn't he just say "Yes, high elves are joining the void elves en masse"? Because it's likely something they want to explore. Although I would find it funny if the Sunreavers end up being the first ones to duplicate that process.
    I don't really have to argue they are reducing Alliance High Elf numbers. We have seen the evidence first hand due to the casualties they have sustained over the years. They lost one of their two lodges, Theramore was destroyed and that was a big population center for them, casualties of wars we know they participated in and of course every Alliance High Elf whon now chooses to be a Void Elf.

    He didn't say 'Void Elves are getting Alliance High Elves en masse' because...they're not? Alliance High Elves have an incredibly low population, that is why the impact upon them from their casaulties is so detrimental to their future. They can't do anything en masse. But some Alliance High Elves ARE turning into Void Elves. As are Blood Elves.

    You are also arguing they have to shove what is blatantly obvious in our faces. We have Elves training in Tel'rogus, seeking to wield the void. We know that their in game numbers don't match up with a small group performing weird research. We know that they can infuse other beings with void energy. And we have a dev who, when asked where are they getting their numbers, said other Elves are seeking them out to see if they can wield their powers.

    Have you considered that this isn't an important plot point? That it's so obvious this is what happening that it's not worthy of exploration? We have a dev saying this is the case now, that's all we need to make sense of what we see in game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    While it's true that I want high elves to be playable - or at the very least some high elven costumizations - I'm fine with my Alliance blood elf.

    Just stop poisonning it for people wanting them to be playable.
    Grow up. A contrary opinion is not 'poisoning' anything and if you don't like what is being said you are free to withdraw from the topic.

  5. #8845
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Theramore was destroyed and that was a big population center for them
    If you actually read ToW, you'd know that the big majority of the civilian population was evacuated before the fight started and before Theramore got bombed.
    And even during Theramore's fall scenario, no high elf is being shown fighting in the city nor defending Jaina.
    That's not a valid argument.

  6. #8846
    Indeed Void Elves outnumber High Elves from the Alliance.
    See here.
    Void Elve Pop: 30
    Helve alliance Pop: 15

    There you go they are the majority now in the Alliance.

  7. #8847
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Grow up. A contrary opinion is not 'poisoning' anything and if you don't like what is being said you are free to withdraw from the topic.
    Lies are not "contrary opinions" Obelisk Kai.

    We know that their in game numbers don't match up with a small group performing weird research
    Thanks for pointing this out. The same can be said about High elves. Their IG numbers don't match up with a race on the brink of extinction.
    Last edited by elbleuet; 2019-01-28 at 02:13 PM.

  8. #8848
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    If you actually read ToW, you'd know that the big majority of the civilian population was evacuated before the fight started and before Theramore got bombed.
    And even during Theramore's fall scenario, no high elf is being shown fighting in the city nor defending Jaina.
    That's not a valid argument.
    So the Alliance High Elves are cowards who fled the city?

    As for the civilian population, a large number of them were captured and imprisoned in Orgrimmar. Not a single Alliance High Elf.

    We know Theramore was a population center for them. It was specifically mentioned in chronicles that some Alliance High Elves left for Kalimdor with her, as they were the Priest and Mage units for the Alliance in the later part of Warcraft 3. Which also implies that they weren't civilians, they were military units. Who would have stayed to defend the city.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Lies are not "contrary opinions" Obelisk Kai.
    Of course, I am not lying. Everything I say is informed. What we have here is a classic case of sheer denial, you won't accept the truth and so rationalise everything away.

    I don't have to rationalise everything away. I have the evidence on my side.


    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Thanks for pointing this out. The same can be said about High elves. Their IG numbers don't match up with a race on the brink of extinction.
    Actually, they do. Alliance High Elf numbers in game are incredibly low. And just because I said there are more Void Elves than Alliance High Elves, or that their in game numbers don't match what people believe to have been a small group at the initial transformation...that doesn't necessarily follow that Void Elves are a large group either.

    The Alliance High Elves are a small group, not on the brink of extinction (as Blood Elves are High Elves and they are in no danger of extinction, the species is fine) but on the brink of fading away. The Void Elves are now larger in number, but still a small group. An elite strike force I believe is the term.

  9. #8849
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    So the Alliance High Elves are cowards who fled the city?
    Absolutely.

    As for the civilian population, a large number of them were captured and imprisoned in Orgrimmar. Not a single Alliance High Elf.
    Where does this come from ? Just because you spotted 3 Theramore Npcs in Orgrimmar ?


    We know Theramore was a population center for them. It was specifically mentioned in chronicles that some Alliance High Elves left for Kalimdor with her, as they were the Priest and Mage units for the Alliance in the later part of Warcraft 3. Which also implies that they weren't civilians, they were military units. Who would have stayed to defend the city.
    In ToW and during Theramore's fall, they're not mentionned. From there, this is just your headcanon.

    I don't have to rationalise everything away. I have the evidence on my side.
    That "Theramore was a big loss for the high elf population" argument is just an example among many others.
    Last edited by elbleuet; 2019-01-28 at 02:25 PM.

  10. #8850
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Absolutely.



    Where does this come from ? Just because you spotted 3 Theramore Npcs in Orgrimmar ?




    In ToW and during Theramore's fall, they're not mentionned. From there, this is just your headcanon.



    That "Theramore was a big loss for the high elf population" argument is just an example among many others.

    The presumption for years has been of a substantial Alliance High Elf presence in Theramore due to the presence of High Elves in the Alliance armies in Warcraft 3 that accompanied Jaina. It was in this context Caydiem would have made the 2005 post on Alliance High Elf population and this was prior to the formation of the Silver Covenant in Dalaran.

    In Chronicles this was supported by the explicit mention of refugees from Quel'thalas accompanying Jaina to Kalimdor.

    Yet you are arguing against there being a substantial Alliance High Elf population in Theramore. You are arguing that military units would have been evacuated. Or that they deserted. That doesn't quite past the smell test now does it. "Theramore was a massacre, but not a single precious hair on the head of a single Alliance High Elf was even singed". Give me a break, you just don't want them to have died because more High Elves means you can try to prove the developers wrong.

    You are however making a strong case for them not being nearly so numerous as I allowed myself to presume. Perhaps Caydiem was operating under too generous an allocation when she said 10% of the total thalassian population. Perhaps it was much lower.

    Also, you seem to misinterpret what I mean about a big loss for the Alliance High Elves. If the Alliance High Elves lost fifty people, that is a huge loss for them, because their population is so low.

    If fifty Alliance High Elves congregate in one spot, that is a substantial presence for them. It's all a question of proportion.

    If there were ten passenger pidgeons left in the world, and four of them were in the one spot, i'd they had a substantial presence on that spot too.

  11. #8851
    Herald of the Titans Amaterasu65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The presumption for years has been of a substantial Alliance High Elf presence in Theramore due to the presence of High Elves in the Alliance armies in Warcraft 3 that accompanied Jaina. It was in this context Caydiem would have made the 2005 post on Alliance High Elf population and this was prior to the formation of the Silver Covenant in Dalaran.

    In Chronicles this was supported by the explicit mention of refugees from Quel'thalas accompanying Jaina to Kalimdor.

    Yet you are arguing against there being a substantial Alliance High Elf population in Theramore. You are arguing that military units would have been evacuated. Or that they deserted. That doesn't quite past the smell test now does it. "Theramore was a massacre, but not a single precious hair on the head of a single Alliance High Elf was even singed". Give me a break, you just don't want them to have died because more High Elves means you can try to prove the developers wrong.

    You are however making a strong case for them not being nearly so numerous as I allowed myself to presume. Perhaps Caydiem was operating under too generous an allocation when she said 10%. Perhaps it was much lower.

    Also, you seem to misinterpret what I mean about a big loss for the Alliance High Elves. If the Alliance High Elves lost fifty people, that is a huge loss for them, because their population is so low.

    If fifty Alliance High Elves congregate in one spot, that is a substantial presence for them.
    To get this right, is your point that High Elves are not many to make an allied race possible? Because Void Elves already started as a small group.

  12. #8852
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaterasu65 View Post
    To get this right, is your point that High Elves are not many to make an allied race possible? Because Void Elves already started as a small group.
    No, the population issue is the lore argument cited by the developers when asked why playable Alliance High Elves aren't a thing. Too small, too weak, too unimportant.

    The gameplay reason is that they are playable on the other faction and giving the Alliance a duplicate does great damage to faction diversity.

    As for Void Elves, as they can turn other Elves into Void Elves, the population issue does not apply to them.

  13. #8853
    Whoever posts last wins the thread.

  14. #8854
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaexion Ramza Beoulve View Post
    Whoever posts last wins the thread.
    I win! For the next minute lol

    And hopefully Alliance High Elves and Sanlayn come as allied races in the next expansion *fingers crossed*

  15. #8855
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The presumption for years has been of a substantial Alliance High Elf presence in Theramore due to the presence of High Elves in the Alliance armies in Warcraft 3 that accompanied Jaina. It was in this context Caydiem would have made the 2005 post on Alliance High Elf population and this was prior to the formation of the Silver Covenant in Dalaran.

    In Chronicles this was supported by the explicit mention of refugees from Quel'thalas accompanying Jaina to Kalimdor.

    Yet you are arguing against there being a substantial Alliance High Elf population in Theramore. You are arguing that military units would have been evacuated. Or that they deserted. That doesn't quite past the smell test now does it. "Theramore was a massacre, but not a single precious hair on the head of a single Alliance High Elf was even singed". Give me a break, you just don't want them to have died because more High Elves means you can try to prove the developers wrong.

    You are however making a strong case for them not being nearly so numerous as I allowed myself to presume. Perhaps Caydiem was operating under too generous an allocation when she said 10% of the total thalassian population. Perhaps it was much lower.
    Here we go. That's only your opinion on the subject, nothing more dude. In TOW and IG, not a single High elf is said to have died in Theramore. So all your arguments are pointless, just emanating from your wishful list.

    I don't deny the fact that High elves have a really low population though, especially compared to humans. But same statement could be said about Alliance Pandaren, Void elves, Darkspear Trolls...

    And hopefully Alliance High Elves and Sanlayn come as allied races in the next expansion *fingers crossed*
    Fingers crossed for some High/blood elven costumizations indeed We could incarnate a new generation of blood/high elves slightly less transformed by the void. Let's say the Sunwell is corrupted and numerous blood elves are tainted by the voidwell.

  16. #8856
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Here we go. That's only your opinion on the subject, nothing more dude. In TOW and IG, not a single High elf is said to have died in Theramore. So all your arguments are pointless, just emanating from your wishful list.
    Yet Alliance High Elves were living in Theramore. In game evidence supports this from Warcraft 3. Out of game evidence supports this from Chronicle. Is it not more arrogant to presume that they were deserving of special mention just because they were Alliance High Elves? Was everyone supposed to be extra super sad because some Alliance High Elves died?

    I seem to recall quite a large number of people died, including some very senior members of the Alliance. But nope, because they aren't specifically cited as a special case, and because they are so special they would have deserved a mention according to your logic, we have to assume every single Alliance High Elf who lived Theramore escaped.

    Despite the fact they were military units who formed an important section of Jaina's forces. Despite the fact that Jaina and the other Alliance commanders believed they stood a good chance of defending the city, because nobody understood it was a trap until Garrosh dropped the bomb.

    Now which of us has the more outlandish belief? Me, when I say Alliance High Elves perished in Theramore and that this would have been a large proportion of the Alliance High Elf population. Or you, who maintains either they all escaped or that they were never there to begin with. I have to admit, I am sympathetic to the idea they were never there to begin with and that Alliance High Elf population numbers have, if anything, been overestimated but unfortunately the evidence does not support such an assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    I don't deny the fact that High elves have a really low population though, especially compared to humans. But same statement could be said about Alliance Pandaren, Void elves, Darkspear Trolls...
    Yes yes, the usual pro High Elf defense on the population issue. What about all these other groups?!

    Alliance Pandaren can recruit other Pandaren, Pandaren are one of the more numerous races on the planet.

    Void Elves can turn other Elves into Void Elves according to Moorgard, the population argument does not apply to them as they can plausibly get more Void Elves.

    Darkspear Trolls are a small tribe. Which just goes to demonstrate just how few Alliance High Elves there actually are because Blizzard has in the past cited Trolls alongside Gnomes and Blood Elves as examples of groups with low populations.

    Let us give all groups with a low population the value of 'x' and those with a high population the value of 'y'. Humans, Orcs and Pandaren would be 'Y'. Blood Elves, Gnomes, Draenei and Darkspear Trolls would be 'X'. But Alliance High Elves are only a fraction of 'X'. Not equivalent to the Darkspear at all, but much, much smaller. And unlike the Void Elves, they can't replenish themselves as easily.

    There is a reason on every single occasion they have responded about Alliance High Elves they cite the population. It's because as bad as you think any other group is, Alliance High Elves are ten times worse.

  17. #8857

  18. #8858
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Alliance Pandaren can recruit other Pandaren, Pandaren are one of the more numerous races on the planet.
    All playable pandaren come from the back of a turtle, not Pandaria. If the turtle decides to dive....

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    oid Elves can turn other Elves into Void Elves according to Moorgard, the population argument does not apply to them as they can plausibly get more Void Elves.
    So can Alliance High Elves. They can recruit Blood Elves to join them.

    Eye color is not quite the same but maybe contact lenses in the future, you never know? ;-)
    "I guess only blood elves feel like the odd man out for the Horde. I hope that we've engineered that into it as deftly as we could, but you know, it's the equivalent of a bunch of white chicks hanging out with goblin or tauren. It's weird." -- Chris Metzen

  19. #8859
    Quote Originally Posted by Garfurion View Post
    All playable pandaren come from the back of a turtle, not Pandaria. If the turtle decides to dive....



    So can Alliance High Elves. They can recruit Blood Elves to join them.

    Eye color is not quite the same but maybe contact lenses in the future, you never know? ;-)
    Grow up kids we already got them they are called belves.

    Denial is a bad thing

  20. #8860
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    wonder if there's more Alliance High Elf NPCs than Void Elf NPCs.

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