Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Obelisk Kai]

Wrong.

You just only listed 3 Humans Types, Dwarves, and Gnomes.

What I mean by Original Color Skin Elf Race is a Elven Race that isn't just another Blue/Purple Dark Elf Theme Race. So far Alliance only has two versions of Dark Elves that is Void Elves and Night Elves. While you may claim that Horde has the same options that's not True at all. There's One Night Elf Type which is Dark Elf Theme and other is the Light/Red Skin Thalassian Type. Only Theme I get from Blood Elves is just a Magic Base Society. I don't get the Snow Elf Theme, Wood Elf Theme, nor Half Elf Theme from other Medieval Fantasy like Void Elves and Night Elves since they pretty much don't offer much for a True Medieval Fantasy other than being Two Blueberry Elves.

Alliance only has enough Two Dark Elf Theme races which are getting dull at this point while the Horde has Two Variety Skin Color Elves. So again Alliance still doesn't have any Original Variety of color skin elven races. Its like as if you guys continue to ignore the real issue of the Alliance Identity while coming up with poor excuses of Allied Races like Junker Gnomes, Lightforged Forsaken, and etc.

Who really wants to play another Blueberry Elf Race? Who else really wanted to play a random pulled race like Lightforged Forsaken and Junker Gnomes?

P.S. Aeula already knows what I made. I just thought it would be kind of funny.

Firstly, Thalassians don't have red skin. They are all variations of fair skin tones, ranging from very pale to a light tan. If you want an example of a red skinned individual, a Fel Orc or some of the Felblood Elves would suffice.

Secondly, theme is subjective albeit subject to popular interpretations based on the frequency these tropes occur in fiction. You label the Alliance as having two Dark Elf options. This is not the case.

The Kaldorei type, the Night Elves, are the Dark Elves of WoW. But they are also the Wood Elves. Part of what made Warcraft's mythos so appealing in the early days was to take long standing fantasy convention and invert them. Hence we have honorable, shamanistic Orcs rather than the braindead killers so prevalent in other franchises. Hence we have the High Elves of the Warcraft universe fighting alongside those honorable, shamanistic Orcs and proving a better fit because the Horde is more tolerant of their magical experimentations. And hence we have the Dark Elves of the Warcraft universe also being their Wood Elves, an amalgamation of two tropes that resulted in what is Warcraft's most original spin on Elves, the Night Elves. Nightborne are another spin on Dark Elves, a more traditional take, as they are a physical variant of Night Elves yet a what if? in that they preserve pre-sundering Night Elven culture.

Both Horde and Alliance have access to Dark Elves, with differences, although I feel the Night Elves are far more interesting than the Blood Elf retread which are the Nightborne.

Void Elves do not come directly from that tradition. They are an expression of the thalassian elven culture, one who pursued their obsessions with dangerous magic to it's unfortunate conclusion despite being cautioned against it by wiser members of Silvermoon society. Void Elves are a fully distinct option for Alliance players that is completely at odds with what a Dark Elf is, as represented by the Nightborne and Night Elves.

It is illogical to focus on skin tones and then set such arbitrary limits on the topic. You argue that because both Elf options are 'blue' in colour they are getting dull...which neglects that Night Elves are actually pink and purple rather than blue and that Void Elves tend to gray and chalk white (with one strong blue tone admittedly. Nightborne are actually blue though). You also ruled out the four options (if I charitably leave out the Worgen) Alliance players currently have that sport these original skin tones, just to focus on Elves, and then complain that the blue skin tones offered by the Elves makes them dull.

Under that logic, original skin tones should also be 'dull' for the Alliance given the number of options with those tones that are available.

I beg to differ.

Blizzard already knows what they did and didn't made the Alliance any Original nor Iconic by Void Elves. So yea High Elves/Half Elves are coming. Just because one Dev said no doesn't mean its not going to end any time soon as long as you got people like me and others around asking for Original Color Skin Race that is Iconic to the Warcraft RTS Games.

Back to Classic counter argument of rejecting people a Original Color Skin Elven race by wanting to kill all of them just so that people can shut up be happy with Forced Dull Blueberries like Void Elves.

Lorewise I hope Void Elves and Umbric get killed by the Blood Elves and be done with ridiculous Light vs Void Lore because It already ruined good Video Game Storylines.

Void Elves aren't dying anytime soon. They are the most popular allied race (therefore validating Blizzard's decision to add them) and if they are set to expire it will be after WoW ends as people playing them might be upset to lose their avatars.

You also have no evidence Alliance High Elves are coming except blind faith. Yes, only one dev said no, but only one dev had to. And that dev gave the rationale as to why they weren't picked. And he was the Game Director.

There is no law that says the rejection has to be restated every five minutes or that every Warcraft dev has to say it for it to hold true. It is true until such time as another dev explicitly states it isn't.

And that 'Original Color Skin Race that is Iconic to the Warcraft RTS Games' hasn't left. Which is the point people like me keep trying to get you to see. They were in the RTS you love so much, Warcraft 2. And they were present in Warcraft 3. And in the frozen throne expansion, they were betrayed by the Alliance and they left that faction. And in World of Warcraft, with nowhere else to turn, they joined the Horde where they remain to this day.

You aren't going to invalidate that story simply because the last two decades of storytelling hasn't been what you personally wanted.

And so long as people keep asking for High Elves I, and others like me, will keep opposing them.

I’d have opposed Void Elves too if they weren’t dropped on us out of thin air. Probably even more than I oppose High Elves because, let’s face it, Void Elves are much worse. There’s no denying it at this stage.

But there’s still no way I’ll accept Blizzard giving the Alliance two different variations on the Blood Elf model and lore. One was already too much.

Void Elves are not exactly my favorite race, which should come as no surprise to you, but I disagree that Void Elves are much worse than making Alliance High Elves playable. After all, what is the fundamental basis for the opposition to playable Alliance High Elves?

That the Blood Elves are the High Elves of Warcraft, and that Alliance High Elves would duplicate what is now a core part of the Horde to the Alliance without any modifications because Alliance High Elves and Blood Elves are identical save their political viewpoint. A Void Elf is physically and aesthetically distinct from a Blood/High Elf. It goes to the limit of toleration in terms of faction distinctiveness but it doesn't break it because, in the end, Void Elves are their own thing.

[Aeula]

Void Elves are not exactly my favorite race, which should come as no surprise to you, but I disagree that Void Elves are much worse than making Alliance High Elves playable. After all, what is the fundamental basis for the opposition to playable Alliance High Elves?

That the Blood Elves are the High Elves of Warcraft, and that Alliance High Elves would duplicate what is now a core part of the Horde to the Alliance without any modifications because Alliance High Elves and Blood Elves are identical save their political viewpoint. A Void Elf is physically and aesthetically distinct from a Blood/High Elf. It goes to the limit of toleration in terms of faction distinctiveness but it doesn't break it because, in the end, Void Elves are their own thing.

I used to feel the same way but after seeing them in action and playing them for myself I feel differently. Void Elves took something from the Blood Elves. They took all their lore from WC3 through to Legion, all the struggles, all the battles fought, the changed culture and pushed it to the background to essentially become purple High Elves but at a greater cost to the Horde and with access to Blood Elf lore that High Elves would have done without.

Visually they fail to differentiate themselves enough from Blood Elves. The skin colour and wacky hairstyles are all that’s changed. In full armor or at a distance it can be hard to tell the difference.

Narratively they’re much worse than High Elves, their lore was pulled out of thin air, they seem blindly loyal to the Alliance for little to no reason. Even volunteering for the Nazmir suicide squad. And their numbers seem to be much higher for what ever reason. Their presence is damaging to Blood Elf lore and the void theme could have been represented through another race like the Krokul. Plus we now have to deal with them AND High Elves because Blizzard keeps shoving the little bastards in every nook and cranny.

In no way does this mean I endorse High Elves being added. Especially now as their presence is utterly pointless and it’d just be doubling up on all the problems Void Elves cause.
But in the nigh-impossible event that Blizzard ever decides to kill all the Void Elves off and replace them with High Elves I would be somewhat less pissed at the whole ‘race swap’ thing than I am now.

[Monster Hunter]

Stop necroing this dead topic please....

[FlubberPuddy]

I used to feel the same way but after seeing them in action and playing them for myself I feel differently. Void Elves took something from the Blood Elves. They took all their lore from WC3 through to Legion, all the struggles, all the battles fought, the changed culture and pushed it to the background to essentially become purple High Elves but at a greater cost to the Horde and with access to Blood Elf lore that High Elves would have done without.

Visually they fail to differentiate themselves enough from Blood Elves. The skin colour and wacky hairstyles are all that’s changed. In full armor or at a distance it can be hard to tell the difference.

Narratively they’re much worse than High Elves, their lore was pulled out of thin air, they seem blindly loyal to the Alliance for little to no reason. Even volunteering for the Nazmir suicide squad. And their numbers seem to be much higher for what ever reason. Their presence is damaging to Blood Elf lore and the void theme could have been represented through another race like the Krokul. Plus we now have to deal with them AND High Elves because Blizzard keeps shoving the little bastards in every nook and cranny.

In no way does this mean I endorse High Elves being added. Especially now as their presence is utterly pointless and it’d just be doubling up on all the problems Void Elves cause.
But in the nigh-impossible event that Blizzard ever decides to kill all the Void Elves off and replace them with High Elves I would be somewhat less pissed at the whole ‘race swap’ thing than I am now.

I'm actually happy to see this type of post. Even from someone who doesn't want High Elves. It's good to comment on some blatantly obvious "uh wut?" moments surrounding Void Elves.

I'd consider them the most official fan-fic race ever made playable.

[Aeula]

You nailed it. So which race, Void Elf or Blood Elf, do you think is more akin to their original Quel'dorei counterparts?

Void Elves seem to have High Elf (Alliance) values and are completely loyal to that faction. For some odd reason, but Umbric makes their stance pretty clear.
The only differences are the void theme and the fact that they have Blood Elf history that puts their loyalty to the Alliance in a really confusing light considering all that's happened. When they were first announced I fully expected them to join out of convenience and nothing more, but that's not the case.

Even Blood Elves at the height of desperation would have despised what the Void Elves are, due to their powers originating from Dar'khan's teachings. So there's no commonality with them there. The High Elves should feel the same, yet they seem to get along quite well if Stormwind is anything to go by?

To some extent they're this weird, nonsensical mix of both. They share a history with Blood Elves that'll never be brought up due to making their relationship with the Alliance awkward and yet they also share the values that the High Elves seem to have (Blind loyalty and devotion to the Alliance, despite the awkward and confusing history).

If I had to choose I'd say they're closer to High Elves. Since they (High Elves) seem to be more tolerant of their practices and the Void Elves share their pro-alliance values. From the perspective of a player I see everything I despise about High Elves but made worse due to their shared history with the Blood Elves. They're a lore abomination that should simply not exist,

[FlubberPuddy]

Even Blood Elves at the height of desperation would have despised what the Void Elves are, due to their powers originating from Dar'khan's teachings. So there's no commonality with them there. The High Elves should feel the same, yet they seem to get along quite well if Stormwind is anything to go by?

The bolded keeps being said and treats Blood Elves as one hive mind that have all the same beliefs and views settled in one singular vision. But from the moment Blood Elves have been playable and their zones in the game we have seen instances of where not all Blood Elves believe joining the Horde was the right idea or that it didn't sit straight with them (from the evidence of brainwashing during TBC).

Even afterwards TBC (since we know that following Dar'khans teachings would harm the Sunwell indicating Umbric and his group had to be exiled following the end of TBC), Umbric and his group of followers shows that there were Blood Elves who love Silvermoon but didn't love being within the Horde.

And ofc we all know the moment in Mists where (whether for sub plot fluff or not) the potential of Blood Elves joining the Alliance was brought to surface due to Garrosh's reign. Whether people want to Meta-think about "oh it would never happen for game reasons" isn't the point, point is it's canon from a story point of view until it's ret-conned out.

So what all this shows is before Void Elves came into being (as in before the player sees the transformation and unlocks them) there were Blood Elves on the Horde that didn't want to be.

Then following Void Elf inception, we are seeing more "Silvermoon Exiles" coming into being. Which is showing that Blood Elves who are part of the playable portion of Blood Elves are now also coming over to the Alliance, since those post-playable Void Elves aren't part of Umbric's initial group anymore. And if you want to take it a step further and believe as Obelisk Kai does that more Void Elves are being made then this would further support that the current Blood Elf population of the Horde is losing some of its members to the Alliance. A story beat that Blizzard has continually portrayed throughout the years.

All this wrapped together, it just makes me wonder if Blizzard is taking their time with showing this division within one group and it's why I'm always perplexed when people tend to treat racial groups as a hivemind of some sort, playable or not. Blood Elves are an especially bad example to think they all have the same view when Blizzard has portrayed the disunity in 2006 (TBC brainwashing), 2012 (MoP talks of Alliance joining), and 2018 (Umbric's group and more Silvermoon exiles).

Coincidentally those are all about 6 years apart from each other. So there could be a cadence to it, who knows.

I still think Void Elves, in terms of how they were created and how they are presented, are still pretty trash. But there's always been division among the Blood Elves in terms loyalty to the Horde and hate of the Alliance.

[DeicideUH]

What is "Meta-think"?

It's about considering things outside the scope of the story that limit its outcome.

Like: "Blood elves would never really defect because you can't take a way a race from a faction."
Or: "The hero is never in true danger if he dies the story is over."

Oh, and yes, void elves are a total abomination. An asspull in its purest form. A badly conceived idea that was implemented before it could have been fleshed out or improved.

[In Ogres We Trust]

In all honesty, as it relates to the void theme, the Krokul were the better choice. However, now that the Void Elves are playable, the Allied Race should be folded into the High Elves, and the lore (and models) should be adjusted accordingly. For example, mirror Alleria's model, have the Void Elves be her former followers (from the Draenor expedition, i.e. the Outland remnants), and if you needed additional fodder, you can even fold the Silver Covenant into the group.

[DeicideUH]

In all honesty, as it relates to the void theme, the Krokul were the better choice. However, now that the Void Elves are playable, the Allied Race should be folded into the High Elves, and the lore (and models) should be adjusted accordingly. For example, mirror Alleria's model, have the Void Elves be her former followers (from the Draenor expedition, i.e. the Outland remnants), and if you needed additional fodder, you can even fold the Silver Covenant into the group.

The problem is how to do it without making a contrived storyline.

Unless there's something that forces the high elves into folding with the void elves, I don't see them taking such a dangerous path.

[DeicideUH]

Yeah, and I don't see how the Draenei are cool at ALL with Void Elves hanging with the Alliance.

The draenei are no strangers to some careful uses of dark magic. They had necromancers in the auchenai, for instance, and Velen knows that Shadow and Light need to be balanced. The lightforged is another story, but in their case their leader is the husband of the void elves' leader, and they saw Alleria using the void for good in Argus.

I think everyone should be wary of the void elves, but not to the point of open hostility.

Let's face it; the Quel'dorei and also Ogres are really the two main races missing from being playable in WoW. Once we have those, I think we'll have everything we could want.

Ogres are coming, I'm sure. Kul tiran model made them possible. I'm betting on them for the Horde in 8.3.5.

High elves, on the other hand...

[RangerDaz]

I will be waiting for the release of High Elves / Silver Covenant for the Alliance and San'layn / Undead Elves for the Horde.

I hope they become playable in less than 2 years

[Obelisk Kai]

Ogres are coming, I'm sure. Kul tiran model made them possible. I'm betting on them for the Horde in 8.3.5.

High elves, on the other hand...

Are not coming. They have made that perfectly clear across fifteen years of game operation.

The biggest hint was that instead of giving the Alliance High Elves they wen't entirely out of their way not too, they invented a variant nobody had ever heard of rather than do so.

It is likelier that they will allow Horde and Alliance players to group in PVE content, and so allow Blood Elf players to play with Humans and Dwarves etc., rather than give Alliance High Elves at this point. Many players are openly hypothesising this will be the outcome of this expansion if the faction war is brought to a permanent end and such an outcome will render Alliance High Elves as an option completely redundant instead of the 99.9% redundant they are now following the addition of Void Elves, and the 99% redundant they became when Blood Elves were added as a Horde race.

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I will be waiting for the release of High Elves / Silver Covenant for the Alliance and San'layn / Undead Elves for the Horde.

I hope they become playable in less than 2 years

Confirmed not to be happening.

Ion confirmed to someone at Blizzcon that Alliance High Elves will not happen this expansion cycle but the usual 'anything is possible' coda. This individual was someone from the pro High Elf discord, at least according to the Allied Race discord. This expansion is going to be live for the next year and a half.

We were also told in the June 2018 Q and A that Allied race additions are going to get much rarer after BFA.

Jeremy Feasel in the T and E interview was excited about new allied races in BFA, but grew a lot more sceptical when questioned about post BFA allied races, only saying the system is there if needed.

Alex Afrisiabi nodded in agreement when the Lost Codex guys said they thought Void Elves filled the High Elf niche within the Alliance, which segued into their question about High Elf LIKE (not High Elf exact) Void Elf customization, which he rapidly repurposed into a statement on behaviour on the forums so read into that what you will.

From everything here, I'm pretty certain Alliance High Elves as a distinct Alliance option isn't happening within two years. The intent isn't there at all. As was confirmed last April.

[Obelisk Kai]

Never say never.

Yes but at a certain point enough data gives a pretty solid declaration of intent. To whit, in the past two years they have not only explicitly said it isn't happening (under the rationale that they are already in game and playable) but they went out of their way NOT to add by creating a variant. The existence of that variant further complicates the possibility of adding them, making it incredibly remote.

Now all I have to go on that the Sun will rise tomorrow is the fact it has always risen in the morning, but who knows, tomorrow might be the day it doesn't. Anything is possible.

[FlubberPuddy]

Yes but at a certain point enough data gives a pretty solid declaration of intent. To whit, in the past two years they have not only explicitly said it isn't happening (under the rationale that they are already in game and playable) but they went out of their way NOT to add by creating a variant. The existence of that variant further complicates the possibility of adding them, making it incredibly remote.

Now all I have to go on that the Sun will rise tomorrow is the fact it has always risen in the morning, but who knows, tomorrow might be the day it doesn't. Anything is possible.

It's definitely within someone's prerogative to try and downplay certain comments while uplifting others, but in this case it's pretty weird to do because in an earlier post, you said

It is likelier that they will allow Horde and Alliance players to group in PVE content, and so allow Blood Elf players to play with Humans and Dwarves etc., rather than give Alliance High Elves at this point. Many players are openly hypothesising this will be the outcome of this expansion if the faction war is brought to a permanent end and such an outcome will render Alliance High Elves as an option completely redundant instead of the 99.9% redundant they are now following the addition of Void Elves, and the 99% redundant they became when Blood Elves were added as a Horde race.

Was this conversation topic a thing back in 2004? 2006? I'm not sure myself because I wasn't playing WoW back then, but as you make it clear: there are many players making a hypothesis on something that probably people back then wouldn't dream of happening within the game's early days.

Why is that? Because things change. That simple.

Therefore it's kinda weird to assume that something is set in stone as sure as the Sun rising every morning when this landscape (WoW) changes much faster than the landscape of stars and planets.

How come now there's so much more topics about a possible Horde/Alliance shared PvE experience? Because Blizzard is framing the stories toward that direction, or at the very least make it seem that way.

So from a point of "never happening" to "no way it doesn't happen" and everything in between, we can see that certain topics within WoW's development have moved from one point to another or just a little bit.

High Elves being added went from "never possible" to "maybe added customization for Void Elves"
Just like Horde/Alliance PVE has gone from "pfft in your dreams!!" to "oh wait, maybe it could happen"

Point is, I'm not sure anything that is as constantly in flux as future game development can be ascribed as to being as "set in stone"/stable as the Earth's revolution around the Sun.

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I can't imagine what the sixth Allied Race will be for Alliance yet.

My vote for Lightforged Undead with Calia as their leader. Gotta make up for getting boring ass Mechagnomes.

[Obelisk Kai]

I've been playing Warcraft games since late 1994 or early 1995, starting with Warcraft II, and I agree with your points, but also think somewhere Blizzard knows they may have messed up by not just bringing back the Quel'Dorei, in lieu of these Ren'dorei.

Presuming they 'messed up' is based on the assumption they made the wrong decision. The pro High Elf community believes there was a mess up because they aren't happy with the results. The only evidence that I have seen offered that people are unhappy are the popularity of High Elf discussion threads across the WoW forums. However, those discussion threads are never ending flame wars between the two groups of people on this topic. The topic is not popular because everyone who frequently posts there is in support, the topics are popular because those opposed are as vocal as those in favour.

In opposition to the idea Void Elves were a mistake are two factors. Firstly the popularity of the Void Elves relative to the other Allied races puts the lie to the idea they are a failure. How can they be a failure when they are the most popular? They are more popular than some of the core races on the Alliance side.
Secondly, Void Elves do not cross the red lines Blizzard established. I am not a fan of Void Elves, but I acknowledge that they are aesthetically, thematically and culturally distinct enough from Blood/High Elves to not damage faction diversity. So as an Allied race they are a success. As a variant, they are a success. Where they fail is in not being the Alliance High Elves the pro High Elf community has held out for. Given that was an impossible standard for them to meet, it should be discounted.

I'll take added customizations, like they once discussed. I think, however, that they want players to embrace the existing options as much as possible, first, however, before adding more High Elf-like hairstyles, etc to the mix. I have quite a few friends who are newer to the game, and they adore the Void Elves, and know very little of the history of the lore of Warcraft, so maybe it won't hurt to incorporate the High Elf lore into the Void Elves, down the road.

You know, this particular notion is a pet peeve of mine. Since the Lost Codex guys did the interview with Alex Afrasiabi where the topic of High Elf like Void Elf customization was brought up, a misconception has arisen where it was Blizzard was discussing the idea.

That is not what happened.

The Lost Codex interviewers were the ones who brought up the topic of High Elf like customization for Void Elves, unbidden, with no prompting from the developers. They didn't even ask if it was going to happen, they merely asked if it was possible. And the developer asked said 'yes it's possible' but then pivoted to a discussion on forum behaviour.

Had the Lost Codex guys asked if 'Ogres' were possible, or 'Arrakoa' in no way would that have been taken as a promise or even a statement of intent by the developers.

Vereesa is still there, and she's no doubt important to some degree, so eventually, something has to give? I can't imagine what the sixth Allied Race will be for Alliance yet.

The sixth Allied race will probably be light undead (least likely) or the Anchora (most likely). The Anchora are 'deep jinyu' and look like a particularly badass variant of Jinyu. Why not just use Jinyu if something more wasn't intended there? It will be in the quality of the Anchora model and whether there are male and female forms where we shall see if they are intended.

As for Veressa, she's not really important. She hasn't had a story role because she is a High Elf representative, she has had a story role because she has two vastly more interesting and important sisters. Now that Alleria is back, and a racial leader in her own right, Veressa's role in the story (which was miniscule to begin with) should corresponding diminish.

[In Ogres We Trust]

The problem is how to do it without making a contrived storyline.

Unless there's something that forces the high elves into folding with the void elves, I don't see them taking such a dangerous path.

What? You adjust the current lore to fit my suggestion:

a) The Void Elves would have always been her forces from the expedition to Draenor (in addition to the Silver Covenant). In other words, you remove the current lore.
b) Hearing of her return, her former Rangers flocked to see her.
c) Realizing that Sylvanas is beyond redemption (in addition to the need for more troops for the Alliance), Alleria agrees to reform her elite cadre of Rangers to aid the Alliance.
d) As a result, she trains her colleagues to be the backbone of her new company, and they, in turn, train the rest of the High Elves, etc.

Problem solved... no Blood Elves, Umbric, or a shitty story and model.

[Xath]

Are not coming. They have made that perfectly clear across fifteen years of game operation.

The biggest hint was that instead of giving the Alliance High Elves they wen't entirely out of their way not too, they invented a variant nobody had ever heard of rather than do so.

It is likelier that they will allow Horde and Alliance players to group in PVE content, and so allow Blood Elf players to play with Humans and Dwarves etc., rather than give Alliance High Elves at this point. Many players are openly hypothesising this will be the outcome of this expansion if the faction war is brought to a permanent end and such an outcome will render Alliance High Elves as an option completely redundant instead of the 99.9% redundant they are now following the addition of Void Elves, and the 99% redundant they became when Blood Elves were added as a Horde race.

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Confirmed not to be happening.

Ion confirmed to someone at Blizzcon that Alliance High Elves will not happen this expansion cycle but the usual 'anything is possible' coda. This individual was someone from the pro High Elf discord, at least according to the Allied Race discord. This expansion is going to be live for the next year and a half.

We were also told in the June 2018 Q and A that Allied race additions are going to get much rarer after BFA.

Jeremy Feasel in the T and E interview was excited about new allied races in BFA, but grew a lot more sceptical when questioned about post BFA allied races, only saying the system is there if needed.

Alex Afrisiabi nodded in agreement when the Lost Codex guys said they thought Void Elves filled the High Elf niche within the Alliance, which segued into their question about High Elf LIKE (not High Elf exact) Void Elf customization, which he rapidly repurposed into a statement on behaviour on the forums so read into that what you will.

From everything here, I'm pretty certain Alliance High Elves as a distinct Alliance option isn't happening within two years. The intent isn't there at all. As was confirmed last April.

We'll see how long that tune lasts. Believe it or not along with blood elf druids one of the things that could bring casual players back to the game is a long asked for race. Especially if they added High Elves alongside Ogres.

[FlubberPuddy]

In opposition to the idea Void Elves were a mistake are two factors. Firstly the popularity of the Void Elves relative to the other Allied races puts the lie to the idea they are a failure. How can they be a failure when they are the most popular? They are more popular than some of the core races on the Alliance side.
Secondly, Void Elves do not cross the red lines Blizzard established. I am not a fan of Void Elves, but I acknowledge that they are aesthetically, thematically and culturally distinct enough from Blood/High Elves to not damage faction diversity. So as an Allied race they are a success. As a variant, they are a success. Where they fail is in not being the Alliance High Elves the pro High Elf community has held out for. Given that was an impossible standard for them to meet, it should be discounted.

Super simple. Because people are shallow and like pretty things, and the Thalassian model is unsurprisingly the most lauded as a great looking model. Blizzard could instead have green-tinted Shrub Elves using the Thalassian model and they'd be just as popular.

Look at the people calling for San'layn elves, what model are they hoping is utilized for the base? That's right the Thalassian one, because to fans to love playing elves it's very easy to see that's a well-done model, if not Blizzard's best elf model in-game.

The Lost Codex interviewers were the ones who brought up the topic of High Elf like customization for Void Elves, unbidden, with no prompting from the developers. They didn't even ask if it was going to happen, they merely asked if it was possible. And the developer asked said 'yes it's possible' but then pivoted to a discussion on forum behaviour.

Same developer also said, "don't give up hope!" after saying "it's possible" and before pivoting to forum behavior. But yes, leave it out as if that's not pertinent when it actually is, since it shows an encouragement to continue to the request rather than a fortright shut down to the request.

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We'll see how long that tune lasts. Believe it or not along with blood elf druids one of the things that could bring casual players back to the game is a long asked for race. Especially if they added High Elves alongside Ogres.

People should just caution against expecting them anytime soon (if ever), and definitely not in BFA. There's still 2 more Allied Races to be added to Alliance side and the "elf slot" has already been used up for this round. I don't imagine even in the next expansion it happening, since it will probably focus more on a new class or something related to classes.

My hope is somewhere down the line, in a time where Wildhammer who have been teased of being added potentially can also be the time where High Elves become playable to the Alliance. Having started playing D&D, I think a lot of people underscore the freedom that is allowed to play a character how you want (within a reasonable ruleset), but with free reign over its race, class, faction, personality etc.

Actually the fact that we have the Allied Races feature today is because of the long-lauded calls for more character customization.

[Obelisk Kai]

We'll see how long that tune lasts. Believe it or not along with blood elf druids one of the things that could bring casual players back to the game is a long asked for race. Especially if they added High Elves alongside Ogres.

Since the first negative response to playable High Elves was given in September 2005, Blizzard have been holding that tune for thirteen and a half years minimum. Longer if we count the actual development of classic itself. I am interested to see if anything is covered in the Warcraft Development Diary by John Staats on this particular topic but I am waiting for the work to become widely available before I get a copy.

The problem with 'High Elves will bring players back to the game' is of course the presumption that they actually would. If you REALLY want playable High Elves on the Alliance, then of course it becomes the solution to all the game's woes despite the fact there is no evidence for that beyond the desire of the pro High Elf community. A community I hasten to add, that isn't very large but is very vocal.

I reference the number of people who have signed the High Elf petition and the number on the High Elf discord, those for whom this is THE issue, seems to number in the hundreds. By comparison, the classic community had a petition of a quarter of a million at one point. I bring this up because 'they caved for classic, they will cave for us' seems to be something of an article of faith for some people.

Why? What evidence is there they will do so? Yes, they changed their mind on classic, but the classic issue was one that vastly more people were interested in achieving and came on the back of a movement within the MMO market to offer older server experiences. More importantly, Classic had no negative drawbacks for the live game that the Alliance High Elf request does have and which Blizzard spelled out last year.

And yes, I know the pro High Elf community has discounted all these negatives. Funnily enough, deciding amongst yourselves that the barriers and arguments in front of your goal don't matter doesn't make the issue go away. Preaching to the choir achieves nothing.

This is the echo chamber you are in. You have no evidence that they will drive an upward trend in WoW subs beyond your own desire for them. I could claim that giving Mages a one shot one kill ability would drive subs upwards as well, and yet the fact I main a Mage might just slightly be warping my perception of such a request (as well as blinding me to some serious downsides).

No, Warcraft subs will do fine this year. There will be an upswing in the summer with the launch of 8.2 and classic. Probably a decline before the end of the year but enough should stay, and then be excited by the announcement of a new expansion at blizzcon and the release of 8.3, that this year will be a relative success.

And nary an Alliance High Elf will be needed to achieve that.

[DeicideUH]

What? You adjust the current lore to fit my suggestion:

a) The Void Elves would have always been her forces from the expedition to Draenor (in addition to the Silver Covenant). In other words, you remove the current lore.
b) Hearing of her return, her former Rangers flocked to see her.
c) Realizing that Sylvanas is beyond redemption (in addition to the need for more troops for the Alliance), Alleria agrees to reform her company of Rangers to aid the Alliance.
d) As a result, she trains her colleagues to be the backbone of her new company, and they, in turn, train the rest of the High Elves, etc.

Problem solved... no Blood Elves, Umbric, or a shitty story and model.

Well, it's too late to change the past. I also made a very similar suggestion when void elves were about to be released. Essentially, it would be the same recruitment scenario, but enhanced:

- When you arrive at Ghostlands with Alleria to search for Umbric, the Silver Covenant has secured Windrunner village. Beyond Vereesa and her troops, there's a group named "Allerian Elite", comprised of: Auric Sunchaser, Taela Everstride, Theloria Shadecloak and other high elves from Allerian Stronghold, who flocked to their former captain once she returned.
- The search through Ghostlands goes almost like before. Maybe an encounter with some enemy blood elves to show how the relationship between high and blood elves is sour.
- When Alleria enter Telogrus, Vereesa offers a squad of Covenant rangers to go with her sister. Summoner Nolric of the Silver Covenant is also interested. The Allerian Elite goes with Alleria as well. (Vereesa herself does not go).
- When you meet Umbric and Durzaam attacks, Umbric would not be immediately captured. The scenario would show his passion in trying to save his followers. As the scenario goes, every elf, including the high elves that went to Telogrus, are captured and transformed.
- By the end of the scenario, you have a mix of transformed elves, both high and blood. You also end up with several void elf NPCs ready to be used to flesh out the void elves and give them different outlooks on the Void: Umbric, Auric, Theloria, Taela and Nolric. Also, the Silver Covenant squad that went with Alleria is transformed as well.

This alone would have made the void elves a hundred times better, and open more possibilities for them. They'd also have a stronger link to the Silver Covenant and the high elves, having several former high elf heroes among them.

But we can't go back and change the past. As the void elves are right now, I don't see any incentive for high elves to join them in large numbers. The only way it could be done is if it's against their will.