Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

WoW Classic had a matter of people offering it since Blizzard didn't, thus providing competition. So, in order to compete, Blizzard needed its own Classic servers.

Maybe if someone offered a server with high elves instead of void elves, lol...

AR feature has been such a hit. Seen a type of engagement never before seen on the forums (per Ythisenss, paraphrased). They may slow the release after BFA but they know for sure it's one of their Golden Eggs now.

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Never said it wasn't, but at the same time; whether mentioned or not, was also a move to protect their IP. If the people that were begging for classic servers were to be believed they would be willing to pay to have access to said servers. If it's offered it lessens the likelihood of people opening up private servers, which have to be fought with lawyers and litigation, which costs money.

Sure, it was a decision that has multiple benefits. So does adding High Elves. They make more money, and quell one of their numerous audiences. People will always bitch when something is added, but that bitching dies down. Case in point: Nightborne. Oh man were so many people bitching when they got added to Horde. Nowadays, it's rarely brought up compared to before because when it's added to the game, players have to eventually settle in and accept that reality (see end of post before snarky retort).

Conversely, if they don't add High Elves they make no extra money. It's not like people throw extra money to Blizzard to keep Blood Elves exclusive as the only fair skin looking elf.

Before anyone wants to chime in with some "smart" or "clever" answer, the reality is High Elves are not playable on the Alliance, so don't tell people to "accept the reality" when my context was about thing that are added into the game, and playable High Elves on Alliance are not in the game atm.

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I don't have anything to add, I'm just glad to see that this thread is still going after so long. Keep up the good fight, we'll get our high elves eventually.

Your artwork for High Elves are still amazing. Hopefully one day they get realized in game

[FlubberPuddy]

And regarding about how bitching dies down. You mean like how people have accepted that the High Elf story is with the Horde? As the Devs have been on record stating as such.

....

Really? If that held any merit there wouldn't be a High Elf movement, people would have accepted the story and what Devs have said in their regards of High Elves.

See this last part you wrote? It's why I anticipated and wrote:

Before anyone wants to chime in with some "smart" or "clever" answer, the reality is High Elves are not playable on the Alliance, so don't tell people to "accept the reality" when my context was about thing that are added into the game, and playable High Elves on Alliance are not in the game atm.

I see you couldn't pass up the chance though. And this is why there is a "High Elf movement" because people aren't looking just to play a high elf race, they want to play the High Elves on Alliance. Just like no one's throwing a fit over having Brown Orcs on Horde, because that's literally the request that was given. Playable High Elves on Alliance are still not a thing therefore people are actually requesting it.

That's wrong on several levels.

1. There is absolutely no statistical data suggesting that High Elves would make them a large sum of money. Nor is it something that would remain consistent in profit, there would be a major fall off at some point. Those that come back for Classic servers will be required to pay a monthly fee every month. Hardly comparable in their profit potentials.

Really? You can't use deductive reasoning to see that the Blood Elf race is an extremely popular playable race, of which playable Void Elves are a derivative who have per Obelisk Kai been "a success" with data to back it up, to connect the dots that an even closer derivative to Blood Elves that becomes playable on the Alliance side wouldn't be seen to be making Blizzard money?

And Allied Races are exactly something that doesn't have consistent profit and have a major fall off so I don't see how the comparison to consistent profit is relevant. No AR is making Blizzard consistent profits which is why they're released in batches and during lulls. Blizzard has already gone on record of saying they're releasing them during the lulls of expansions - please think on why they would do that? That's a rhetorical question, it should be easy to see it's because they anticipate the AR to bring in a surge of income and then fall off.

2. Sure, it will quiet the vocal minority, but will give rise to much further bitching due to A: giving away what is now (like it or not) a core Horde race B: adding yet another unnecessary Elf race C: not being creative

I think you're giving way too much credit to this overall High Elf discussion from both sides. It's firstly a niche issue as DeicideUH pointed out, even more you can tell not many people care enough to discuss it at length as we can see the same posters (both for AND against) are the only ones who keep coming back.

Please show me with evidence where there's a larger audience that would start bitching away and throwing a hissy fit over High Elves getting added.

This topic is niche, this discussion is niche, there's not some "sleeping beast" of a vocal majority waiting to raise hell if playable High Elves on Alliance become a thing.

[delus]

I placed emphasis on your quote on your use of the word 'transform', which is the critical point. Blood Elves transformed by the void. As Void Elves, they are just about enough not to damage Blood Elves.

As for your contention that Void Elves did more damage to the Blood Elves, absolute nonsense...although I do thank you for the implicit admission on your part that an Alliance High Elf race WOULD do damage to the Blood Elves. Makes a change from pro High Elfers arrogantly disregarding what those of us opposed say and falsely claiming 'what we want wouldn't hurt anyone!'.

If Void Elves do any damage now, it is to themselves and themselves alone because as you helpfully pointed, they aren't Blood/High Elves anymore. They were






I like Draenei too but faction choice has consequences.



Yeah. Pull the other one. These races weren't designed in a vacuum and for them to have been unaware of the demand for Alliance High Elves means that they weren't reading the forums and all your activity in the years prior to the unveiling of the Allied race system wasn't registering. As you've been at this topic as long as I have, I find that idea more than a little funny. Whilst a humorous thought, it isn't true. They were well aware of the demand. They have always been aware of the demand.

We KNOW Alliance High Elves were considered for two reasons. Firstly, in the video I linked to you, Ion specifically mentioned them as a candidate for the sub-race system they were thinking about that ultimately became the Allied race system. Secondly, the question from last year's April Q and A was phrased precisely as follows

"When deciding on Allied Race, why did you choose Void Elves when High Elves seemed much more of an organic (and popular) choice"?

Leading phrasing aside, the question's context invited a response predicated on 'why did you choose Void Elves over High Elves' and Ion obliged, spelling out the many reasons Alliance High Elves just don't work. Reasons he had given a few months previously when asked at Blizzcon 2017.

If we are to believe your version of events, the sole reason Void Elves were added was because they were an attempt to create something new and cool. The problem with your approach of course is that you treat these as mutually exclusive, that they were something new and cool or that they were a replacement for the Alliance High Elves.

It was both. Once they realised they couldn't add High Elves, due to them being playable as a Horde race, they set out to create a new and cool variant as a compromise.

Anyone who seriously believes Void Elves were an idea conceived with zero reference to the desire for Alliance High Elves is practising denial of the blatantly obvious.

Maybe it's because you cannot bear to face that truth that for a period of time, the developers actively considered your request for Alliance High Elves, could have been a few minutes, a few hours, a few days. But for a period of time it was a live possibility. And then in the end, someone said 'no' and that was that.




High Elf requests exploded? Please contain yourself. The discord has a few hundred members. The petition has a few hundred signatories. And the only reason the threads on the official forums remain active is because, as here, the same usual suspects keep the circular debate going. Yours is not a mass movement. Yours is a very loud one. So yes, a loud minority. As for the forum blues, community management should not be confused with developer opinion.



Since when is a compromise intended to satisfy everyone? This is an MMO with a few million players, you cannot satisfy them all and no decision Blizzard has ever made has ever satisfied everyone. And since when does the pro High Elf community get a veto? Void Elves weren't what you wanted, that's tough, but they are also the most popular Allied race and a success when compared to all the other options. But the hardcore High Elf community weren't happy at not getting exactly High Elves? I am sure they were just STUNNED to learn that was the reaction.




Of course they heard your request. Stop grasping this infantile fantasy that they somehow missed it. If you don't want to accept Void Elves as the compromise they intended in lieu of actual High Elves, then the answer is 'No'. Stated loudly and clearly through action and word.

And yes, the "for now" line. The sad hope he left you with because the man is a lawyer and knows that they need a get out clause if at some point WAAAAY down the line someone (not him) changes their mind. Last thing they want is to hand someone a rhetorical hammer 'You said never to X...but you also said never to High Elves...so we want X!'.

Also If he was backing down from a controversy he made a damn poor show of it. I mean after six months of arguments on the forums since what he said at Blizzcon 2017, he then 'backs away from the controversy' by repeating himself except this time with added snark.

Ya. Stellar logic there.




Why bother. Issue is sorted. Void Elves are in the Alliance, most popular Allied race and is successful. And there are plenty of other issues facing the game right now that need developer attention rather than pandering to the neurosis of a small group who after fifteen years are seemingly incapable of taking the hint.



Yeah, thing is, that's a political choice. The sole difference between the two groups. The sole difference I have acknowledged. The sole difference you reached for here.

So again, you agree with me.

Void elves, if anything do more damage than high elves ever could. Their primary method of reproduction will be to actively take from Silvermoon's population and cause a huge defection from the Horde. If you don't think that is worse than developing the already existing high elves, you are kidding yourself. I very much look forward to the reaction when this is reflected in game.

[Evilfish]

Void elves, if anything do more damage than high elves ever could. Their primary method of reproduction will be to actively take from Silvermoon's population and cause a huge defection from the Horde. If you don't think that is worse than developing the already existing high elves, you are kidding yourself. I very much look forward to the reaction when this is reflected in game.

I'm sure the Horde players can get over the lore since they've been doing it for a while. I think people are more focused on the idea that they don't really bring anything to the Horde table but rather take from it.

[Obelisk Kai]

Void elves, if anything do more damage than high elves ever could. Their primary method of reproduction will be to actively take from Silvermoon's population and cause a huge defection from the Horde. If you don't think that is worse than developing the already existing high elves, you are kidding yourself. I very much look forward to the reaction when this is reflected in game.

In regards to your comment that Void Elves will damage the Blood Elves because some Blood Elves will leave to become Void Elves, this fundamentally misses the point of the objection against playable Alliance High Elves.

The reason Alliance High Elves do damage is that they undermine what a Blood Elf is and what Blood Elf players such as myself have invested in our existing characters for the past twelve years. A Blood Elf in Warcraft is the redefinition of what a High Elf in then warcraft franchise is. Allowing playable Alliance High Elves takes that away from Blood Elf players who have had twelve years playing their characters under that valid assumption. This is what I mean by Alliance High Elves as an Allied Race not respecting the integrity of the Blood Elves. Blood Elves lose a large part of what they are should it come to pass because suddenly a group we have been told time and time are nearly dead and of limited influence and impact would suddenly be claiming that they are the true High Elves.

It is also profoundly unfair to the Horde faction that a major Horde race, one unique to our faction for twelve years, with it's faction specific culture and faction specific aesthetics, would have to be shared with the Alliance. No other faction specific race in the game, and save the Pandaren they are all faction specific, faces this demand.
There is no universe in which it is fair the Alliance gets to play a Horde race without having to play Horde, and yes, High Elves are a Horde race. You can tell yourself all you want that their political allegiance to the Alliance or the fact they cling to a single adjective differentiates them enough, but that fools nobody save those who peddle that particular argument. Time and time again, Blizzard reminds us that Blood Elves are High Elves, from in game events such as the recent Heritage armour quest to flat out stating it in interviews.

At the end of the day, Void Elves are a unique flavour of thalassian elf, one themed around the void. There is thematic and aesthetic space between Void Elves and Blood Elves. A Void Elf player can NEVER pretend to be a High Elf, and even should High Elf like customizations be added to Void Elves, they will still NEVER be able to be a High Elf. Whilst the loss of the uniqueness of the model is unfortunate, it was tolerable and balanced with the addition of the Nightborne to the Horde. But Void Elves absolutely, in no way, threaten the integrity of the Blood Elves as the true High Elves of the warcraft franchise.

[elbleuet]

At the end of the day, Void Elves are a unique flavour of thalassian elf, one themed around the void. There is thematic and aesthetic space between Void Elves and Blood Elves. A Void Elf player can NEVER pretend to be a High Elf, and even should High Elf like customizations be added to Void Elves, they will still NEVER be able to be a High Elf. Whilst the loss of the uniqueness of the model is unfortunate, it was tolerable and balanced with the addition of the Nightborne to the Horde. But Void Elves absolutely, in no way, threaten the integrity of the Blood Elves as the true High Elves of the warcraft franchise.

You're pretty much obsessed by not getting High elves in the Horde, aren't you ?
You should be happy with your Horde blood elves. High elves are still Alliance, and Blood elves are already defecting Silvermoon right now to join the void elves. Delus is right. I'm excited to see that in game.

[delus]

In regards to your comment that Void Elves will damage the Blood Elves because some Blood Elves will leave to become Void Elves, this fundamentally misses the point of the objection against playable Alliance High Elves.

The reason Alliance High Elves do damage is that they undermine what a Blood Elf is and what Blood Elf players such as myself have invested in our existing characters for the past twelve years. A Blood Elf in Warcraft is the redefinition of what a High Elf in then warcraft franchise is. Allowing playable Alliance High Elves takes that away from Blood Elf players who have had twelve years playing their characters under that valid assumption. This is what I mean by Alliance High Elves as an Allied Race not respecting the integrity of the Blood Elves. Blood Elves lose a large part of what they are should it come to pass because suddenly a group we have been told time and time are nearly dead and of limited influence and impact would suddenly be claiming that they are the true High Elves.

It is also profoundly unfair to the Horde faction that a major Horde race, one unique to our faction for twelve years, with it's faction specific culture and faction specific aesthetics, would have to be shared with the Alliance. No other faction specific race in the game, and save the Pandaren they are all faction specific, faces this demand.
There is no universe in which it is fair the Alliance gets to play a Horde race without having to play Horde, and yes, High Elves are a Horde race. You can tell yourself all you want that their political allegiance to the Alliance or the fact they cling to a single adjective differentiates them enough, but that fools nobody save those who peddle that particular argument. Time and time again, Blizzard reminds us that Blood Elves are High Elves, from in game events such as the recent Heritage armour quest to flat out stating it in interviews.

At the end of the day, Void Elves are a unique flavour of thalassian elf, one themed around the void. There is thematic and aesthetic space between Void Elves and Blood Elves. A Void Elf player can NEVER pretend to be a High Elf, and even should High Elf like customizations be added to Void Elves, they will still NEVER be able to be a High Elf. Whilst the loss of the uniqueness of the model is unfortunate, it was tolerable and balanced with the addition of the Nightborne to the Horde. But Void Elves absolutely, in no way, threaten the integrity of the Blood Elves as the true High Elves of the warcraft franchise.

And you are also missing the point that blood elves are being made into light elves to stand in contrast to the void elves. Or maybe its the other way around. Blood elves being high elves is a thing of the past. They are not going back to being the people once were.

[FlubberPuddy]

Is it the glorious feature that's gonna make bank for blizzard or is it a niche value that few have, as has been the stance of everyone that's been against the inclusion of Alliance High Elves? It can't be both.

Don't really care for a cyclical back and forth so just responding to this last point. Alliance High Elves can be both a niche thing and make Blizzard bank. Why? Because their entire audience of players are made up of a bunch of minor groups. They've even went so far as to say this themselves on occasion. It was something about how raiding is niche, so is pet battles, so is pvp, so is tmog, etc. About the only thing that holds a majority are leveling up and doing quests.

It should be easy enough to see this with races as well. If you look at some of the already playable races, even Allied races that have already released. Some are very popular while some only encompass 1-2% of end-game level characters made. That doesn't mean those 1-2% of races that are playable didn't earn Blizzard a pretty penny. I saw lv 110 Lightforged the day they were released and made public. Wonder how many people spent $25 doing a race change from already existing characters since they went live, and Lightforged are currently sitting at 1.1% of lvl 120 characters based on US Realm Pop.

Conversely, we're talking about a group of High Elves. Blood Elves are already shown to be a hugely popular race choice. Void Elves are shown to be a hugely popular Allied Race choice. Again, using some deductive reasoning - it stands that Alliance High Elves, which are a mixture of these two previous elves would be a hugely popular 2nd thalassian elf race. Unless you have evidence in WoW that a 3rd derivative of race choice wouldn't show similar growth, we can only follow the pattern laid out in front us. Currently that pattern is that Thalassian Elf models gain a large number of characters created based on their accessibility relative to the other race options for their categories (Base Race vs Allied Race) respectively.

The niche speak comes from the fact that this entire conversation is only encompassing one facet of WoW: Races, and then even further niche speak because it's concerning Allied Races which are a derivative of the main races. Further niche comes from the fact that as I've stated and can be easily seen: there are very few people on both sides of this discussion who will repeatedly come back and post about this topic.

That's the niche, speaking and discussing on this topic and the fact that it's something that is just one part of WoW. WoW isn't just races. There's classes, quests, dungeons, raids, professions, tmog, pvp, collections, holidays, etc. All that those working parts together make up WoW.

[Obelisk Kai]

And you are also missing the point that blood elves are being made into light elves to stand in contrast to the void elves. Or maybe its the other way around. Blood elves being high elves is a thing of the past. They are not going back to being the people once were.

If the Sunwell had as transformative an effect upon the High elves as the void blast did upon the Void Elves, then all the Elves would have been equivalent to 'Arcaneforged Elves' in the millenia prior to the Sunwell's destruction but this isn't what happened. While they feed upon the well's energies, it was not transformative. The same almost certainly holds true for the modern well.

I agree that the Blood Elves are being positioned in opposition to the Void Elves as part of a light-void dichotomy, but the influence of the light upon the Blood Elves is much subtler than the overt transformation the Void Elves went through.

Finally, I am not missing the point at all. You're counter-point falls apart when a single fact is mentioned. That Alliance High Elves are ALSO subject to the Sunwell and any transformation that is affecting the Blood Elves will also be affecting the Alliance High Elves because they are the same people. This underlines what I say time and time again, there is no difference between the two groups beyond a political opinion.

[FlubberPuddy]

There is no universe in which it is fair the Alliance gets to play a Horde race without having to play Horde, and yes, High Elves are a Horde race. You can tell yourself all you want that their political allegiance to the Alliance or the fact they cling to a single adjective differentiates them enough, but that fools nobody save those who peddle that particular argument. Time and time again, Blizzard reminds us that Blood Elves are High Elves, from in game events such as the recent Heritage armour quest to flat out stating it in interviews.

In-game events like when Elisande (an NPC created and voiced and written by Blizzard themselves) refers to both Quel'dorei (High Elves) and Sin'dorei (Blood Elves) separately. Not to mention all the other times since TBC to even BFA that Blizzard has kept and depicted High Elves and Blood Elves as separate groups/entities/whatever you wanna call em in regards to faction loyalty, storylines, and visual appearance. Yeah that is truly Blizzard reminding us that these guys are "literally the same" as your "Blood Elves are High Elves" is implying.

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You're pretty much obsessed by not getting High elves in the Horde, aren't you ?

He's not obsessed with not getting High Elves on the Horde. He has somehow come to believe that Blood Elves, literally are the once then High Elves. As in, literally to this day they are still High Elves calling themselves High Elves and living in Silvermoon. This is why posts of Obelisk include "Void Elves can still NEVER be a High Elf" and the whole bit about how if High Elves became playable it would invalidate Blood Elves as being "the true High Elves" (whatever the hell that even means).

It's a strange kind of convincing.

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Finally, I am not missing the point at all. You're counter-point falls apart when a single fact is mentioned. That Alliance High Elves are ALSO subject to the Sunwell and any transformation that is affecting the Blood Elves will also be affecting the Alliance High Elves because they are the same people. This underlines what I say time and time again, there is no difference between the two groups beyond a political opinion.

@Garfurion just quoted the still canon Warcraft Encyclopedia to you earlier showcasing that High Elves could manage without the Sunwell and not die without it as Kael'thas falsely proclaimed. Yet not two days later, you have gone back to believing that what happens to Blood Elves with the Sunwell will also affect the High Elves in the same way.

This is the kind of stuff I am talking about @elbleuet. It's kind of sad.

[Garfurion]

The reason Alliance High Elves do damage is that they undermine what a Blood Elf is and what Blood Elf players such as myself have invested in our existing characters for the past twelve years. A Blood Elf in Warcraft is the redefinition of what a High Elf in then warcraft franchise is. Allowing playable Alliance High Elves takes that away from Blood Elf players who have had twelve years playing their characters under that valid assumption. This is what I mean by Alliance High Elves as an Allied Race not respecting the integrity of the Blood Elves.

Alliance High Elves have been in the franchise since Warcraft II and in WoW before Blood Elves joined the Horde. Whether they are playable or not doesn't change them or Blood Elves as a race. Being playable or not is just a game mechanic.

Blood Elves lose a large part of what they are should it come to pass because suddenly a group we have been told time and time are nearly dead and of limited influence and impact would suddenly be claiming that they are the true High Elves.

You mean a group of Alliance High Elves like the Silver Covenant which Blizzard introduced in WotLK ?

High Elf NPCs already claimed to be the true High Elves back in TBC:

"I'm a HIGH elf, not a blood elf. Don't worry, I'm not going to suck all of the magic out of you." -- Taela Everstride

[Evilfish]

"I'm a HIGH elf, not a blood elf. Don't worry, I'm not going to suck all of the magic out of you." -- Taela Everstride

--- snip ---

[Thalassian Bob]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/YTNZoMq.jpg[/IG]

Excellent!

Do you think Thalassians being into humans was like the Eastern Kingdoms equivalent of being a "chubby chaser"?

[Obelisk Kai]

Alliance High Elves have been in the franchise since Warcraft II and in WoW before Blood Elves joined the Horde. Whether they are playable or not doesn't change them or Blood Elves as a race. Being playable or not is just a game mechanic.

This is an example of what I am talking about. You are trying to justify High Elf distinctiveness by saying they've been in the franchise since Warcraft 2. And this is true. And those same High Elves from Warcraft 2 were in Warcraft 3 where their Kingdom was destroyed. And in Warcraft 3 The Frozen Throne we learned they had renamed themselves as Blood Elves, they were betrayed by the Alliance and they left the faction. And in World of Warcraft they joined the Horde where they have remained ever since. This is attempting to appropriate the Blood Elf narrative for an Alliance High Elf Allied race.

You mean a group of Alliance High Elves like the Silver Covenant which Blizzard introduced in WotLK ?

The group would be those players who choose Alliance High Elves. They would begin defining themselves as the true High Elves, and for evidence would point out their name alone. At a stroke, you take away agency from Blood Elf players to define themselves as the true, redefined High Elves of the Warcraft universe.

As for the Silver Covenant, they are a tiny group, insignificant in number and crucially, non-playable. As an NPC group, they are simply story props for other, more important individuals and factions.

High Elf NPCs already claimed to be the true High Elves back in TBC:

"I'm a HIGH elf, not a blood elf. Don't worry, I'm not going to suck all of the magic out of you." -- Taela

Blood Elves never drained mana from mortals, just vermin. Secondly, that point of philosophical divergence was resolved with the restoration of the Sunwell. Thirdly, just because a few NPC members of this nearly dead group claim this does not mean they have to be validated.

[FlubberPuddy]

You said that bitching/complaints of HE inclusion would die down after said inclusion, to which I called BS. If there were any merit to that then people would have accepted what the lore and Devs have dictated, that the HE experience is available on the Horde. Regardless of the minor wishes to have that exact same experience available on the Alliance.

You must keep missing the fact that I said Alliance High Elves are not playable and thus why the bitching/complaints of that topic continue. Once they're actually added into the game, people who oppose it would eventually stfu just as people who have opposed many other game additions like Tmog, Pandas, DHs, Classic Servers, etc. die down about bitching about it because it's added into the game. No more "trying to stop it from happening" can happen at that point.

To keep saying these people should accept Horde Blood Elves when we're talking about Alliance High Elves is frankly a big red herring. The Faction as well as the Race are both key components here, to minimize one or the other completely misses the point that both are a requirement to this request.

The rest of the middle of your post keeps going to talk about something you misunderstand so I won't elaborate because until you can stop changing my words around and actually understand what I'm saying then there's not much to move forward with in this back and forth.

Alliance High Elves are not playable, so those bitching about their inclusion will continue to bitch about it (this refers to both those for and against).

But talking to you remains as it always has been, minor shifts in goal posts and double speak.

This coming from you when you can't seem to understand what my posts are saying in the first place.

This will be my last response before I revert back to pretending your a figment of my imagination again, most likely won't be responding to you again regarding the subject matter going forward. (And for clarification no I don't mean blocking you =P ) Have a nice day.

That's alright, lots of misunderstanding from what I garner in your posts and going in circles is a fruitless endeavor. Have a good one all the same too.

[Traveler Voltin]

Its never going to happen. Blizzard should just turn the remaining high elves to void elves and blood Elves just to end this crap

[elbleuet]

Its never going to happen. Blizzard should just turn the remaining high elves to void elves and blood Elves just to end this crap

And how a High elf happens to transform himself into a blood elf in 2019?
Same for void elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

? You literally list the physical and thematic differences and then say 'if we ignore the parts of them that are transformed, then they are the exact same'.

Besides that...IF Void Elves are pretty much the exact same as Blood Elves, and as Blood Elves are High Elves, then Void Elves should suffice as your High Elves and you should stop complaining. As Void Elves are unacceptable to you because of their differences from High Elves, and as Blood Elves are High Elves, then Void Elves ARE different from Blood Elves and not the exact same.

Void elves are purple Blood elves that uses the void and defected to the Alliance, it's nothing special, interesting, or better. High elves made much more sense in the first place and don't need to modify Blood elf lore in order to be playable.

Could you please pick one of the two because you are trying to ride two rhetorical horses here and the only conclusion I can come is to is that you dislike Void Elves so much you are able to engage in doublethink, holding two contradictory beliefs at the same time and treating both as valid, in an attempt to argue why they suck.

I'm not the one doublethinking here, Obelisk Kai, i know perfectly what i'm saying and unlike you, i'm not buying bullshit or twisting things in order to fit a narrative.

Isn't the following the theory? "Blizzard such money grubbing shills they will inevitably give us Alliance High Elves" yet you define the Void Elves as a failure outside of their undoubted popularity. Again with the doublethink.

Either Blizzard are money grubbing shills, in which case Void Elves were a success because it got Blizzard money OR Blizzard values the integrity of their game...in which case Void Elves, despite their shortcomings in lore (which could be rectified in the coming years) offered a thalassian option to the Alliance that was distinct and they preserved the important distinctions between the factions.

Pick one please.

No, i told you i'm not going to go with that stupidity of moneymaking Allied races, please focus on the discussion.

That doesn't make less credible the statement that red Thalassians would get popular. And no, they might bandaid the lore around VE, but the damage is already done and it can just be repaired with another retcon.

The chocolate bar situation was a comparison and an apt one. If you don't have an answer for it, simply say so.

Nonsense, the High elf name is not the same as the name of a brand of moldy and fucking rotten chocolate bars that stopped selling when my uncle had a firm scrotum.

If you want to play the example card, at least bring up something relatable that can be compared with the initial point, because it is an example it doesn't mean that it's rhetoric can jump over details with someone having to discuss the fucking example, and no, i'm not gonna discuss an example, i'm bothering enought answering this thing. The High elf name is not the same as the name of a brand of anything.

Not biological? Sorry I seem to remember multiple requests for different models for Alliance High Elves.

Yes, after tons of crying and tantrum about them looking similar. What do you expect? Not everyone have the same ideas about everything.

And again, is not even the type of things i say, if you attempt to fit that point or the money one in the discussion again i'm gonna directly ignore it.

The divide is not cultural, as demonstrated the Silver Covenant ape the Farstriders as much as possible, they name their leader Ranger-General, they call their mages Magisters, they speak Thalassian and they also conduct pilgrimages to the Sunwell.

Oh whoa rank naming such cultural wow.

Of course they are gonna have similarities, that doesn't change the fact they have a different approach with the world they live in than their old people.

The divide is not philosophical. The one point of difference on that matter, how to deal with the addiction following the destruction of the Sunwell, was resolved with the Sunwell's restoration.

Do you believe because a necessity is not there if it returns again they would not act the same way?

Also, trying to make as if political does not have anything to do with philosophical just discovers it as out of touch.

No, it is not enough. We know the criteria for an Allied race involves a measure of separation between the Alliance and Horde, as stated by Ion last year. We know that as Blood Elves are High Elves, that the political difference between the two groups is not enough.
We know High Elves have an established lore, but that is because Blood Elves are High Elves. The High Elf story in the Warcraft franchise became the Blood Elf story from Warcraft 3 The Frozen Throne onwards.
And Void Elves are not rarer than Alliance High Elves, it is the other way around. Moorgard stated, when asked where Void Elf numbers are coming from, responded that other Elves are seeking them out to learn to wield their powers. Void Elves can expand their numbers by converting willing thalassian elves. Some of those training in tel'rogus are Alliance High Elves, meaning as Void Elf numbers expand the number of Alliance High Elves decreases somewhat. And yes, I am aware of the pro High Elf bullshit counter-argument on what he said.

That the interviewer asked 'where are all the void elves coming from' and he responded with 'I am not going to answer that, but let me talk about the completely unrelated fact that other elves, who are not becoming void elves, are coming to hang out with the void elves, to see if they can learn the powers the void elves use, but are not becoming void elves. It's a bit of a non-sequitur response but that's the one I am going to give'.

Forgive me if I don't indulge such a nonsensical interpretation. Pro High Elvers don't want to admit Void Elves can turn other Elves into Void Elves, not because there is nothing to support that assertion in lore (when there is), but because admitting it means Void Elves aren't subject to the population argument and Alliance High Elves remain stuck with it. It's hard to say 'Alliance High Elves are few in number, but so are Void Elves and they are playable so the population argument doesn't count!' if the Void Elves can tempt a couple more Elves to join them to replenish their losses.

The Ravasaur quest telling Void elves can turn other Elves into Void elves is wishful thinking, you just want to take anything that goes against the population argument, just surrender that nonsense and stop looking so desperate, even if High elves return to being the less numerous they would still have enough population, accept it, Void elves are a just a handful of people and playable, it's not an argument against HE.

And yes, the differences they have are enought, just look at Pandaren, literally the exact same character on both factions without any simple difference, it is possible and can't damage the Blood elf character in any single way.

Because that's another thing, i can't believe my fucking eyes when you claim the Blood elves are the "True high elves of warcraft", what does that dumb statement mean in the first place? Quel'thalas may be a dictatorship, but is not a national socialist society, it's an statement supported by nothing, if HE become playable and someone start saying they are the "true high elves" it would be dumb as fuck too, because that's something that doesn't exist, from any Thalassian side.

[FlubberPuddy]

Because that's another thing, i can't believe my fucking eyes when you claim the Blood elves are the "True high elves of warcraft", what does that dumb statement mean in the first place? Quel'thalas may be a dictatorship, but is not a national socialist society, it's an statement supported by nothing, if HE become playable and someone start saying they are the "true high elves" it would be dumb as fuck too, because that's something that doesn't exist, from any Thalassian side.

Exactly, it's like trying to say "Stormwind Humans are the true humans of Warcraft", da fuq? What are Gilneans, what are Kul'Tirans? Not human? All three groups are part of the human race. Just like all 3 Thalassians (Blood Elf, High Elf, Void Elf) are part of the high elf race.

[Strippling]

And how a High elf happens to transform himself into a blood elf in 2019?
Same for void elves.

By literally just changing his name to blood elf. No transformation required for alliance high elfs to become horde high elfs (blood elfs)... they are the same race and are only differentiated by political views. Culturally, physically and thematically they are the same.