Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[elbleuet]

Its never going to happen. Blizzard should just turn the remaining high elves to void elves and blood Elves just to end this crap

And how a High elf happens to transform himself into a blood elf in 2019?
Same for void elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

? You literally list the physical and thematic differences and then say 'if we ignore the parts of them that are transformed, then they are the exact same'.

Besides that...IF Void Elves are pretty much the exact same as Blood Elves, and as Blood Elves are High Elves, then Void Elves should suffice as your High Elves and you should stop complaining. As Void Elves are unacceptable to you because of their differences from High Elves, and as Blood Elves are High Elves, then Void Elves ARE different from Blood Elves and not the exact same.

Void elves are purple Blood elves that uses the void and defected to the Alliance, it's nothing special, interesting, or better. High elves made much more sense in the first place and don't need to modify Blood elf lore in order to be playable.

Could you please pick one of the two because you are trying to ride two rhetorical horses here and the only conclusion I can come is to is that you dislike Void Elves so much you are able to engage in doublethink, holding two contradictory beliefs at the same time and treating both as valid, in an attempt to argue why they suck.

I'm not the one doublethinking here, Obelisk Kai, i know perfectly what i'm saying and unlike you, i'm not buying bullshit or twisting things in order to fit a narrative.

Isn't the following the theory? "Blizzard such money grubbing shills they will inevitably give us Alliance High Elves" yet you define the Void Elves as a failure outside of their undoubted popularity. Again with the doublethink.

Either Blizzard are money grubbing shills, in which case Void Elves were a success because it got Blizzard money OR Blizzard values the integrity of their game...in which case Void Elves, despite their shortcomings in lore (which could be rectified in the coming years) offered a thalassian option to the Alliance that was distinct and they preserved the important distinctions between the factions.

Pick one please.

No, i told you i'm not going to go with that stupidity of moneymaking Allied races, please focus on the discussion.

That doesn't make less credible the statement that red Thalassians would get popular. And no, they might bandaid the lore around VE, but the damage is already done and it can just be repaired with another retcon.

The chocolate bar situation was a comparison and an apt one. If you don't have an answer for it, simply say so.

Nonsense, the High elf name is not the same as the name of a brand of moldy and fucking rotten chocolate bars that stopped selling when my uncle had a firm scrotum.

If you want to play the example card, at least bring up something relatable that can be compared with the initial point, because it is an example it doesn't mean that it's rhetoric can jump over details with someone having to discuss the fucking example, and no, i'm not gonna discuss an example, i'm bothering enought answering this thing. The High elf name is not the same as the name of a brand of anything.

Not biological? Sorry I seem to remember multiple requests for different models for Alliance High Elves.

Yes, after tons of crying and tantrum about them looking similar. What do you expect? Not everyone have the same ideas about everything.

And again, is not even the type of things i say, if you attempt to fit that point or the money one in the discussion again i'm gonna directly ignore it.

The divide is not cultural, as demonstrated the Silver Covenant ape the Farstriders as much as possible, they name their leader Ranger-General, they call their mages Magisters, they speak Thalassian and they also conduct pilgrimages to the Sunwell.

Oh whoa rank naming such cultural wow.

Of course they are gonna have similarities, that doesn't change the fact they have a different approach with the world they live in than their old people.

The divide is not philosophical. The one point of difference on that matter, how to deal with the addiction following the destruction of the Sunwell, was resolved with the Sunwell's restoration.

Do you believe because a necessity is not there if it returns again they would not act the same way?

Also, trying to make as if political does not have anything to do with philosophical just discovers it as out of touch.

No, it is not enough. We know the criteria for an Allied race involves a measure of separation between the Alliance and Horde, as stated by Ion last year. We know that as Blood Elves are High Elves, that the political difference between the two groups is not enough.
We know High Elves have an established lore, but that is because Blood Elves are High Elves. The High Elf story in the Warcraft franchise became the Blood Elf story from Warcraft 3 The Frozen Throne onwards.
And Void Elves are not rarer than Alliance High Elves, it is the other way around. Moorgard stated, when asked where Void Elf numbers are coming from, responded that other Elves are seeking them out to learn to wield their powers. Void Elves can expand their numbers by converting willing thalassian elves. Some of those training in tel'rogus are Alliance High Elves, meaning as Void Elf numbers expand the number of Alliance High Elves decreases somewhat. And yes, I am aware of the pro High Elf bullshit counter-argument on what he said.

That the interviewer asked 'where are all the void elves coming from' and he responded with 'I am not going to answer that, but let me talk about the completely unrelated fact that other elves, who are not becoming void elves, are coming to hang out with the void elves, to see if they can learn the powers the void elves use, but are not becoming void elves. It's a bit of a non-sequitur response but that's the one I am going to give'.

Forgive me if I don't indulge such a nonsensical interpretation. Pro High Elvers don't want to admit Void Elves can turn other Elves into Void Elves, not because there is nothing to support that assertion in lore (when there is), but because admitting it means Void Elves aren't subject to the population argument and Alliance High Elves remain stuck with it. It's hard to say 'Alliance High Elves are few in number, but so are Void Elves and they are playable so the population argument doesn't count!' if the Void Elves can tempt a couple more Elves to join them to replenish their losses.

The Ravasaur quest telling Void elves can turn other Elves into Void elves is wishful thinking, you just want to take anything that goes against the population argument, just surrender that nonsense and stop looking so desperate, even if High elves return to being the less numerous they would still have enough population, accept it, Void elves are a just a handful of people and playable, it's not an argument against HE.

And yes, the differences they have are enought, just look at Pandaren, literally the exact same character on both factions without any simple difference, it is possible and can't damage the Blood elf character in any single way.

Because that's another thing, i can't believe my fucking eyes when you claim the Blood elves are the "True high elves of warcraft", what does that dumb statement mean in the first place? Quel'thalas may be a dictatorship, but is not a national socialist society, it's an statement supported by nothing, if HE become playable and someone start saying they are the "true high elves" it would be dumb as fuck too, because that's something that doesn't exist, from any Thalassian side.

[FlubberPuddy]

Because that's another thing, i can't believe my fucking eyes when you claim the Blood elves are the "True high elves of warcraft", what does that dumb statement mean in the first place? Quel'thalas may be a dictatorship, but is not a national socialist society, it's an statement supported by nothing, if HE become playable and someone start saying they are the "true high elves" it would be dumb as fuck too, because that's something that doesn't exist, from any Thalassian side.

Exactly, it's like trying to say "Stormwind Humans are the true humans of Warcraft", da fuq? What are Gilneans, what are Kul'Tirans? Not human? All three groups are part of the human race. Just like all 3 Thalassians (Blood Elf, High Elf, Void Elf) are part of the high elf race.

[Strippling]

And how a High elf happens to transform himself into a blood elf in 2019?
Same for void elves.

By literally just changing his name to blood elf. No transformation required for alliance high elfs to become horde high elfs (blood elfs)... they are the same race and are only differentiated by political views. Culturally, physically and thematically they are the same.

[Garfurion]

Exactly, it's like trying to say "Stormwind Humans are the true humans of Warcraft", da fuq? What are Gilneans, what are Kul'Tirans? Not human? All three groups are part of the human race. Just like all 3 Thalassians (Blood Elf, High Elf, Void Elf) are part of the high elf race.

Actually Caydiem stated back in 2005 that High Elves, not Blood Elves are the true "High Elves":

"In short, High Elves are not playable because there are very few true "High Elves" left -- far less so than Gnomes. " -- Caydiem 2005

[Aldo Hawk]

Exactly, it's like trying to say "Stormwind Humans are the true humans of Warcraft", da fuq? What are Gilneans, what are Kul'Tirans? Not human? All three groups are part of the human race. Just like all 3 Thalassians (Blood Elf, High Elf, Void Elf) are part of the high elf race.

But hey, remember, da evil HE people and their evil agenda just wants arian elves!

[Strippling]

I'm not the one doublethinking here, Obelisk Kai, i know perfectly what i'm saying and unlike you, i'm not buying bullshit or twisting things in order to fit a narrative.

Yes you are.

And yes, the differences they have are enought, just look at Pandaren, literally the exact same character on both factions without any simple difference, it is possible and can't damage the Blood elf character in any single way.

Because that's another thing, i can't believe my fucking eyes when you claim the Blood elves are the "True high elves of warcraft", what does that dumb statement mean in the first place? Quel'thalas may be a dictatorship, but is not a national socialist society, it's an statement supported by nothing, if HE become playable and someone start saying they are the "true high elves" it would be dumb as fuck too, because that's something that doesn't exist, from any Thalassian side.

No they're not. Also, pandaren were introduced as neutral. What you're asking is to make a core horde race neutral by asking for a small off-shoot of that race (ie alliance high elfs) to be playable. It baffles me that you just can't grasp this concept and sit there crying that people oppose the idea of blurring faction lines.

Blood elfs are the high elven society of Warcraft. Alliance high elfs are but a fractured and splintered branch of this main high elven society. That's what we mean by "true high elfs". Yes they are aligned with the alliance. No they are not a separate race to blood elfs. Yes they are more closely associated with the Kirin Tor than the alliance. Yes they would blur factions lines (Blizz have acknowledged this). No they are not different enough. Yes horde high elfs are the high elven society of WoW, alliance high elfs are not.

Twist things all you want to suit your agenda. Reality is is that high elfs are already playable on the Horde, and adding the small high elven group aligned with the alliance would blur factions lines... which is a integral aspect of this franchise (whether you like it or not).

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Actually Caydiem stated back in 2005 that High Elves, not Blood Elves are the true "High Elves":

"In short, High Elves are not playable because there are very few true "High Elves" left -- far less so than Gnomes. " -- Caydiem 2005

Caydiem was a community manager, not a developer.

[Aldo Hawk]

Yes you are.

No i'm not lol XD

No they're not. Also, pandaren were introduced as neutral. What you're asking is to make a core horde race neutral by asking for a small off-shoot of that race (ie alliance high elfs) to be playable. It baffles me that you just can't grasp this concept and sit there crying that people oppose the idea of blurring faction lines.

Blood elfs are the high elven society of Warcraft. Alliance high elfs are but a fractured and splintered branch of this main high elven society. That's what we mean by "true high elfs". Yes they are aligned with the alliance. No they are not a separate race to blood elfs. Yes they are more closely associated with the Kirin Tor than the alliance. Yes they would blur factions lines (Blizz have acknowledged this). No they are not different enough. Yes horde high elfs are the high elven society of WoW, alliance high elfs are not.

Twist things all you want to suit your agenda. Reality is is that high elfs are already playable on the Horde, and adding the small high elven group aligned with the alliance would blur factions lines... which is a integral aspect of this franchise (whether you like it or not).

No, HE AR would not make Blood elves neutral in any fucking way, no, there's not faction lines to blur via this movement, no, HE is not an off-shot, is another society separated from the Sin'dorei, no, there's nothing as a "true" anything, no, they aren't more closer to Kirin'tor than the alliance that's a watered down statement with clear intentions (remember about twisting things? ouch), no, i didn't said they are a separate race (stop making up things, i'm not responsible for the bad arguments of others), yes, they are different enought as fucking Pandaren prove, given that they are even more distinct than them, and yes, alliance HE is a high elf society even if you don't like it.

Also, i'm gonna ignore the "evil agenda" argument, it's simply dumb as fuck at this point.

[Strippling]

No i'm not lol XD

No, HE AR would not make Blood elves neutral in any fucking way, no, there's not faction lines to blur via this movement, no, HE is not an off-shot, is another society separated from the Sin'dorei, no, there's nothing as a "true" anything, no, they aren't more closer to Kirin'tor than the alliance that's a watered down statement with clear intentions (remember about twisting things? ouch), no, i didn't said they are a separate race (stop making up things, i'm not responsible for the bad arguments of others), yes, they are different enought as fucking Pandaren prove, given that they are even more distinct than them, and yes, alliance HE is a high elf society even if you don't like it.

Yes, HE AR would make Horde high elfs neutral. Yes there are faction lines to blur... WoW's game director even stated there are, don't know how you can even attempt to argue against this. Yes HE is an off-shoot of the main high elven society. Yes they are more closer to the Kirin Tor (well Silver Covenant is at least... "militant faction of the Kirin Tor"). Glad to hear you agree that alliance high elfs and horde high elfs are not a separate race, and as such, the statement "high elfs are already playable" is true....remember you agree that they're not a separate race. Alliance HE are off-shoot of the main high elven society who are now allied with the Horde (this is factually correct).

[elbleuet]

"Horde high elves"

Until Ion's words, I don't recall having seen this before from Horde fanboys.

Blood elves were blood elves, and High elves were High elves and both Horde and Alliance players agreed with that.
It seems to me that Horde players are so much frustrated with the very existance of High elves (and Alliance Windrunner sisters) that they can't help using this false expression to upset Alliance players. That's sad. I really miss old high elf threads.

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By literally just changing his name to blood elf. No transformation required for alliance high elfs to become horde high elfs (blood elfs)... they are the same race and are only differentiated by political views. Culturally, physically and thematically they are the same.

They would still be Alliance thalassian elves... What's your point exactly ?

[FlubberPuddy]

"Horde high elves"

Until Ion's words, I don't recall having seen this before from Horde fanboys.

Blood elves were blood elves, and High elves were High elves and both Horde and Alliance players agreed with that.

It's just snide remarks, typical when someone of authority says something that coincides with their view, regardless of whether it's correct or not. Similar to all those that rallied J Allen Brack's "you think you do, but you don't" or whatever that saying was.

[Strippling]

"Horde high elves"

Until Ion's words, I don't recall having seen this before from Horde fanboys.

Blood elves were blood elves, and High elves were High elves and both Horde and Alliance players agreed with that.
It seems to me that Horde players are so much frustrated with the very existance of High elves (and Alliance Windrunner sisters) that they can't help using this false expression to upset Alliance players. That's sad. I really miss old high elf threads.

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They would still be Alliance thalassian elves... What's your point exactly ?

Blood elfs were commonly thought of as "the high elfs of WoW" until the small fanatical group of pro alliance high elfers started "barking" loudly.

Yes, there is a very small group of high elfs aligned with the Alliance. And YES the majority of high elven society is aligned with the Horde. I don't mind the small group of Alliance aligned high elfs, but fact is high elfs are already playable on the Horde and I'm not for blurring factions lines. Simple as that.

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It's just snide remarks, typical when someone of authority says something that coincides with their view, regardless of whether it's correct or not. Similar to all those that rallied J Allen Brack's "you think you do, but you don't" or whatever that saying was.

WoW game director said it.. yet Garfurion used the quote "In short, High Elves are not playable because there are very few true "High Elves" left -- far less so than Gnomes. " -- Caydiem 2005. Caydiem was a community manager, Ion is the game director. So you want to dismiss Ion's comments cause they don't suit your agenda but I'm sure you'd happily support Caydiem's comment (despite her being only a community manager as opposed to the game director) cause it better suits your agenda?

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"Horde high elves"

Until Ion's words, I don't recall having seen this before from Horde fanboys.

Blood elves were blood elves, and High elves were High elves and both Horde and Alliance players agreed with that.
It seems to me that Horde players are so much frustrated with the very existance of High elves (and Alliance Windrunner sisters) that they can't help using this false expression to upset Alliance players. That's sad. I really miss old high elf threads.

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They would still be Alliance thalassian elves... What's your point exactly ?

This is what you asked And how a High elf happens to transform himself into a blood elf in 2019?

I simply pointed out that an alliance high elf doesn't need to undergo some sort of transformation to become a horde high elf (commonly known as blood elf). They'd simply just need to change their allegiance and subsequently adopt the name blood elf. Apart from political views, they're the exact same as a blood elf. And blood elfs happen to be playable on the Horde, so stop requesting to play a core Horde race.

Go play GW2 or some other MMO if you want freedom of race choices. WoW has always adopted a unique and distinct system between both factions. Asking for alliance high elfs when horde high elfs already exist (and are the main high elven society) is asking for blurring of faction lines... which Blizz said they don't want to do. Argue all you want, doesn't change the reality that alliance high elfs WOULD blur faction lines and WOULD detract from the main high elven society who are allied with the Horde.

[Razzako]

What the fuck? Blood Elves renamed themselves to honor their race fallen ones during the Scourge of Arthas didn't they? Why are people arguing they're not High Elves? Even then the only difference would be their eyes, AND even then, now that the Sunwell is restored AFAIK they should go back to normal, at least in the lore.

Just as Kul Tirans are very much humans, Blood Elves are High Elves.

[FlubberPuddy]

WoW game director said it.. yet Garfurion used the quote "In short, High Elves are not playable because there are very few true "High Elves" left -- far less so than Gnomes. " -- Caydiem 2005. Caydiem was a community manager, Ion is the game director. So you want to dismiss Ion's comments cause they don't suit your agenda but I'm sure you'd happily support Caydiem's comment (despite her being only a community manager as opposed to the game director) cause it better suits your agenda?

It's not dismissive. One has to be incredibly dense to not realize how much of a non-committal and hypocritical answer Ion gave during that Q&A. So non-committal that not a year later there is a chance to get high elf skin through void elves and an encouragement to continue the topic by Alex Afrasiabi (the Creative Director), the same man that said Kul'Tirans should be mages and a few days later they were shown to be. So hypocritical that even Wowhead and other well-known community figures such Red Shirt Guy and Taliesin&Evital pointed out the hypocrisy in the answer rather than random joe-schmoes on MMO-C or the forums.

None of it is dismissive, it's just the same way people defended J Allen Brack had people defend his quote when there was a large portion of the community that called bullshit on it, and a few years later we see the reversal of that initial decision, as well as that quote meaning null now.

[Aldo Hawk]

Yes, HE AR would make Horde high elfs neutral. Yes there are faction lines to blur... WoW's game director even stated there are, don't know how you can even attempt to argue against this. Yes HE is an off-shoot of the main high elven society. Yes they are more closer to the Kirin Tor (well Silver Covenant is at least... "militant faction of the Kirin Tor"). Glad to hear you agree that alliance high elfs and horde high elfs are not a separate race, and as such, the statement "high elfs are already playable" is true....remember you agree that they're not a separate race. Alliance HE are off-shoot of the main high elven society who are now allied with the Horde (this is factually correct).

The horde will still be the horde and the alliance will still be the alliance if HE becomes playable through the allied race system, don't be so dense and dramatic, factions would still be the exact same they are now without having to carve into anything that has been already established, not only that, but expanding and adding even more.

Also, you have to be truly dishonest to use the "high elves are already playable" in this discussion and expect it to mean anything at all. It's an untrue statement, -nobody- refers to Blood elves as High elves away from pointing out the lore of them and you perfectly know that.

HE Came from deceptive or exiled Thalassians, and now they are their own thing, pointed out every expansion since World of Warcraft went online day one, we all know what High elves are and what Blood elves are. I'm even gonna point out that they aren't an off-shoot of Blood elves but of a Thalassian society that doesn't exist anymore since the scourge simply fuck it up and then changed to what we know today.

Also, when you see High elves as Alliance military in the 7º legion you can't seriously state they lean more to the Kirin'tor, and that's just pointing out a single obvious thing that is common knowledge at this point, your behavior of "everything counts while it goes against what i don't like" is offensive for any good willing and honest participant of the discussion. It's an open insult with the clear intention of intentionally twisting shit all the time.

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What the fuck? Blood Elves renamed themselves to honor their race fallen ones during the Scourge of Arthas didn't they? Why are people arguing they're not High Elves? Even then the only difference would be their eyes, AND even then, now that the Sunwell is restored AFAIK they should go back to normal, at least in the lore.

Just as Kul Tirans are very much humans, Blood Elves are High Elves.

Nobody says Blood elves aren't High elves, that's just the baseline name of the race.

The point of the matter is that High elf is the currently in use name of those who stays in the Alliance.

Then saying that High elves are already playable is a double edge argument, the Horde High elves are playable, not the Alliance ones, in which there are more differences than eye color and faction and if made playable there would be even more differences due to racials, classes and character customization options.

[Strippling]

It's not dismissive. One has to be incredibly dense to not realize how much of a non-committal and hypocritical answer Ion gave during that Q&A. So non-committal that not a year later there is a chance to get high elf skin through void elves and an encouragement to continue the topic by Alex Afrasiabi (the Creative Director), the same man that said Kul'Tirans should be mages and a few days later they were shown to be. So hypocritical that even Wowhead and other well-known community figures such Red Shirt Guy and Taliesin&Evital pointed out the hypocrisy in the answer rather than random joe-schmoes on MMO-C or the forums.

None of it is dismissive, it's just the same way people defended J Allen Brack had people defend his quote when there was a large portion of the community that called bullshit on it, and a few years later we see the reversal of that initial decision, as well as that quote meaning null now.

Got it. Game directors comments are not valid cause they oppose playable high elfs.

I would say one has to be incredibly dense to find any excuse to dismiss Ion's comments. Plus his comment wasn't non-committal, he said on two different occasions that playable high elfs are a "no-go" given that they're already effectively playable. Also, you need to stop taking Alex's comments so serious. I know they fill you with a glimmer of hope, but the dude was literally responding to a question posed to him... and I guarentee you that if asked about any other potential thing in the game he would have pretty much responded the same... except he'd likely leave out the "be respectful" part given that that part was directed to pro high elfers.

[Obelisk Kai]

Void elves are purple Blood elves that uses the void and defected to the Alliance, it's nothing special, interesting, or better.

Putting forward your own headcanon as fact is not going to work. This is not simply a case of skin tone alone differentiating a Void Elf from a Blood Elf, otherwise any Blood Elf with enough bodypaint and a free afternoon could try and claim they were a Void Elf.

What happened to the Void Elves was that the Nether Prince attempted to transform them from being Blood Elves into being Ethereals by bombarding them with void energy on a massive scale. Thanks to the intervention of the Alliance hero, this process was interrupted. It was not reversed. There was a partial transformation, which is reflected in their gray skin, tentacle growth and their void powers. These effects are not replicable by any Blood/High Elf unless they undergo the same process the Void Elves did, nor can Void Elves undo the process to go back to being ordinary Blood/High Elves.

High elves made much more sense in the first place and don't need to modify Blood elf lore in order to be playable.

That is your opinion alone. It is demonstrably wrong. And your apparent bitterness that this is not the path they took is clearly the source of your animus towards Void Elves.

I'm not the one doublethinking here, Obelisk Kai, i know perfectly what i'm saying and unlike you, i'm not buying bullshit or twisting things in order to fit a narrative.

I am not twisting anything to fit a narrative. The narrative I am pushing is the one put forth by the game. That Blood Elves are High Elves, and that Void Elves are a different version of the thalassian race to give to the Alliance that does not step on the toes of the Horde.

No, i told you i'm not going to go with that stupidity of moneymaking Allied races, please focus on the discussion.

That doesn't make less credible the statement that red Thalassians would get popular. And no, they might bandaid the lore around VE, but the damage is already done and it can just be repaired with another retcon.

The 'damage' done by the Void Elves is non-existent. It is your opinion they do damage. You have no offered a watertight, credible argument as to why that is. All I discern from your argument is that you don't like Void Elves because they aren't the Alliance High Elves. Your arguments against Void Elves are therefore biased because of what they replaced rather than judging them on their own merits.

Nonsense, the High elf name is not the same as the name of a brand of moldy and fucking rotten chocolate bars that stopped selling when my uncle had a firm scrotum.

If you want to play the example card, at least bring up something relatable that can be compared with the initial point, because it is an example it doesn't mean that it's rhetoric can jump over details with someone having to discuss the fucking example, and no, i'm not gonna discuss an example, i'm bothering enought answering this thing. The High elf name is not the same as the name of a brand of anything.

It was a simile. You seem to have a problem with similies. That problem is not my problem.

Yes, after tons of crying and tantrum about them looking similar. What do you expect? Not everyone have the same ideas about everything.

Funny how you describe the objections to playable Alliance High Elves from the pre-AR era as 'crying and tantrums'. particularly as the different model approach was not the only one suggested, a varied thalassian model was also suggested...which in the end was what was gotten. However, I have a near five hundred page log here of people crying and throwing tantrums over Void Elves not being what they wanted. A little bit less hyporcrisy and a little bit more self awareness please?

And again, is not even the type of things i say, if you attempt to fit that point or the money one in the discussion again i'm gonna directly ignore it.

I find that the pro High Elf community has a habit of discounting things they don't like. Contrary points from other posters, the developers themselves saying it's not gonna happen, the introduction of a variant to the game after a decade of begging which is clearly the end of the matter for anyone with the sense to see...

But no bother, what's one more thing on the ignore pile.

Oh whoa rank naming such cultural wow.

Of course they are gonna have similarities, that doesn't change the fact they have a different approach with the world they live in than their old people.

They have similarities because they are the same. You are the one who stated they have different cultures. I listed several points where they are identical. Where are they different?
And what do you even mean by 'they have a different approach with the world they live in than their old people'?
How is that a fact? How is it demonstrable?
Do you mean their attitude? How is that a difference? How is that an option on a character creation screen someday? Do you see Alliance High Elves as have an attitude option where others have necklace options or glyphs? 'Attitude'...pick from 'Noble, valorous, virtuous'...all of which has no discernable effect on the model because it's a state of mind.

They are exiles. That is a political state, not a factor in race differentiation.

Do you believe because a necessity is not there if it returns again they would not act the same way?

The philosophical dispute was over the Sunwell. It was resolved and if it happened again they would probably make similar choices. And it STILL wouldn't be enough to differentiate them from Blood Elves, noting the existence of a prior philosophical conflict is not recognition that it is enough for them to be an AR.

Also, trying to make as if political does not have anything to do with philosophical just discovers it as out of touch.

The division between the two groups is now almost entirely political in terms of their allegiance. The question of the Sunwell did not involve politics and is best described as philosophical. I describe them as such for the sake of clarity, a debate over semantics is a pointless distraction and a waste of time.

The Ravasaur quest telling Void elves can turn other Elves into Void elves is wishful thinking, you just want to take anything that goes against the population argument, just surrender that nonsense and stop looking so desperate, even if High elves return to being the less numerous they would still have enough population, accept it, Void elves are a just a handful of people and playable, it's not an argument against HE.

It is not desperation I am afraid, as with almost everything I have sources.

The Ravasaur quest is one example, as living Ravasaurs are converted into void creatures. Encounter them during the world quest and they are labelled as 'Aberrations'. Makes me wonder if Void Elves are also Aberrations, simply tagged as Humanoid for game balance just as Forsaken players are Humanoid rather than Undead.
The quest demonstrates that Void Elves are capable of turning living beings into void based creatures, precisely what was done to them.

Coupled with the Moorgard interview where he was asked where their numbers came from and he replied, we know have an in game demonstration of the technique, an in game demonstration of plentiful Void Elf numbers in several scenarios that is not consistent with the small group from the introductory scenario, and word of God confirming other Elves are seeking them out to wield the same powers.

Against that we have you stating that that isn't what is happening. Again, your evidence consists solely of the fact it fouls up what you want. I guess they go into that ignore pile from earlier? The truth is, you want Void Elves to be restricted to that initial group because it allows you to argue that if a small group like them is playable, a tiny group like the Alliance High Elves can also be playable and anyone mentioning the numerous times Blizzard themselves has cited population as a reason against them being available should just look at Void Elves. Void Elves being able to turn other Elves into Void Elves demolishes that argument, as Void Elves can just recruit more void curious individuals.

Also Alliance High Elves do not have enough population to be playable. While i won't go through the entire panoply of quotes to that effect provided by Blizzard over the years, I bring this up because YOU stating ' they would still have enough population' isn't going to make me accept it. You have provided no evidence that contradicts what has been said on this point. You refuse to assimilate what Blizzard has said, and push your own agenda on it. Since the information is out there, and because this is a truth you refuse to accept, you are peddling your own willful ignorance as a fact.

And yes, the differences they have are enought, just look at Pandaren, literally the exact same character on both factions without any simple difference, it is possible and can't damage the Blood elf character in any single way.

Pretty much what I said above, the Pandaren example has been debated to death around here and you can't accept that neutral races failed precisely because Blizzard felt they undermined faction diversity, as explained by Ghostcrawler when he was still on the team. Remember, these points have been asked and answered. Just because the answer isn't to your liking doesn't make the answer wrong, nor does it give you the right to say it doesn't count or ignore it's existence.
You are like a flat earther to whom the truth of the Earth's rotundity is proved on a daily basis in a new way, yet with each new day you ignore what was shown to you and keep repeating the same myths.

And yes, that was another simile.

Because that's another thing, i can't believe my fucking eyes when you claim the Blood elves are the "True high elves of warcraft", what does that dumb statement mean in the first place? Quel'thalas may be a dictatorship, but is not a national socialist society, it's an statement supported by nothing, if HE become playable and someone start saying they are the "true high elves" it would be dumb as fuck too, because that's something that doesn't exist, from any Thalassian side.

It's a longer way of saying 'Blood Elves ARE High Elves'. High Elves are therefore playable and the option is available to anyone who wants to play a High Elf right now.
Also, a lot of pro High Elfers define Alliance High Elves as the 'true High Elves' and even if you don't, that wider point remains true that that is how the pro High Elf community sees them.

And true High Elves exist. Blood Elves represent the true High Elves of the Warcraft franchise because they are the race through whom the High Elf storyline is told, because they control the vast majority of the thalassian population, because everything narratively associated with the High Elves is now controlled by the Blood Elves, and because they are an actual playable race.

- - - Updated - - -

But hey, remember, da evil HE people and their evil agenda just wants arian elves!

Ahem.

You mean 3 Dark Elf Theme Blue Skin Elves and only one original skin race.

This game has way too many Blueberry Elves than original skin races which is what the Alliance really needs. Including that Faction since they lack any variety of elves other than Thalassian Blueberries and edgy night elf blueberries.

Yeah one person, but if we want a wider record..

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...0948166?page=1

This list a record of TEN threads of High Elf fans seeking 'normal' skin tones on Void Elves. As a compromise of course. Of course, they'd still be Void Elves with such a customization, not real Alliance High Elves, but many people inside don't seem to care about that little distinction. Many posters later showed up in pro High Elf threads, peddling lore as the rationale for their request.

A large chunk of the pro High Elf community does merely seek pretty white skinned elves and they don't particularly care how they get them. And they are quite willing to hide behind those who have a genuine lore interest in Alliance High Elves to provide a skein of respectability to their demands because otherwise they'd look very, very shallow.

[Varx]

The only solution to this is the pandaren treatment with a new core horde race to compensate. Vrykul is my choice as the alliance can then get the kvaldir AR to balance the nightborne and Horde gets a panda AR to balance the velves.

Lore wise, both factions have "pure" thalasian elves in their ranks just like both factions have pandaren. It's only a matter on if/when they make the alliance ones playable but NOT as an AR. If they dont then oh well go red or go home.

Blizzard is not going to waste an AR slot on another thalasian elf who's only difference is eye color, come on guys use your common sense.

[Aldo Hawk]

Putting forward your own headcanon as fact is not going to work. This is not simply a case of skin tone alone differentiating a Void Elf from a Blood Elf, otherwise any Blood Elf with enough bodypaint and a free afternoon could try and claim they were a Void Elf.

See? There's nothing you can truly point out about what i said that would be headcanon but you still just throw it out hoping it just works.

What happened to the Void Elves was that the Nether Prince attempted to transform them from being Blood Elves into being Ethereals by bombarding them with void energy on a massive scale. Thanks to the intervention of the Alliance hero, this process was interrupted. It was not reversed. There was a partial transformation, which is reflected in their gray skin, tentacle growth and their void powers. These effects are not replicable by any Blood/High Elf unless they undergo the same process the Void Elves did, nor can Void Elves undo the process to go back to being ordinary Blood/High Elves.

Purple Blood elves infused with void, period.

That is your opinion alone. It is demonstrably wrong. And your apparent bitterness that this is not the path they took is clearly the source of your animus towards Void Elves.

Again, because it doesn't fit what you believe it is just an opinion that isn't based on something, what a surprise.

HE lore is already established and only can go forward, VE lore had to be made up taking away from BE.

I am not twisting anything to fit a narrative. The narrative I am pushing is the one put forth by the game. That Blood Elves are High Elves, and that Void Elves are a different version of the thalassian race to give to the Alliance that does not step on the toes of the Horde.

You do, you completely do, what else would provoke an individual into buying bullshit and making things up in order to support a related argument?

The 'damage' done by the Void Elves is non-existent. It is your opinion they do damage. You have no offered a watertight, credible argument as to why that is. All I discern from your argument is that you don't like Void Elves because they aren't the Alliance High Elves. Your arguments against Void Elves are therefore biased because of what they replaced rather than judging them on their own merits.

I already did and you are again saying that it is an opinion so i'm not gonna bother, go back and check.

It was a simile. You seem to have a problem with similies. That problem is not my problem.

???????? wtf...

Funny how you describe the objections to playable Alliance High Elves from the pre-AR era as 'crying and tantrums'. particularly as the different model approach was not the only one suggested, a varied thalassian model was also suggested...which in the end was what was gotten. However, I have a near five hundred page log here of people crying and throwing tantrums over Void Elves not being what they wanted. A little bit less hyporcrisy and a little bit more self awareness please?

You ask for self awareness while somehow managing to get out of touch constantly... ridiculous...

People want plain, simple alliance HE, when alternative models appear it happen to come after tons and tons and tons of whining, yelling and screeching because they don't accept the idea of making playable an option that is not available through gameplay but that exists within the lore of the game.

I can't imagine someone writing what you just wrote in this quote with a straight face and without feeling any amount of shame at all. Clearly suggesting that people already got what they wanted but still complaining about it which is a complete lie. Those happy with their Void elves and don't asking for HE are simply playing the game, not asking for HE or derivatives, do you understand this square to square easy to digest statement? Please tell me if you need me to simplify it a bit more.

I find that the pro High Elf community has a habit of discounting things they don't like. Contrary points from other posters, the developers themselves saying it's not gonna happen, the introduction of a variant to the game after a decade of begging which is clearly the end of the matter for anyone with the sense to see...

Yeah, just happens to be only "da high elfers" who gets things wrong huh? You don't seem to be in a position of asking for self awareness.

But no bother, what's one more thing on the ignore pile.

Try to not loose yourself there anymore.

They have similarities because they are the same. You are the one who stated they have different cultures. I listed several points where they are identical. Where are they different?
And what do you even mean by 'they have a different approach with the world they live in than their old people'?
How is that a fact? How is it demonstrable?
Do you mean their attitude? How is that a difference? How is that an option on a character creation screen someday? Do you see Alliance High Elves as have an attitude option where others have necklace options or glyphs? 'Attitude'...pick from 'Noble, valorous, virtuous'...all of which has no discernable effect on the model because it's a state of mind.

They are exiles. That is a political state, not a factor in race differentiation.

Jokes on you, available classes and racials are made with the concept of the race in mind, there would be differences in the HE AR showing how the HE people are, do you think a HE would have the exact same racials and classes as their horde counterpart?

Really? think twice.

The philosophical dispute was over the Sunwell. It was resolved and if it happened again they would probably make similar choices. And it STILL wouldn't be enough to differentiate them from Blood Elves, noting the existence of a prior philosophical conflict is not recognition that it is enough for them to be an AR.

Really? is this the thing you get from all this? that's your conclusion?

It's just one of many points, not the entire premise, try to not slip off again.

The division between the two groups is now almost entirely political in terms of their allegiance. The question of the Sunwell did not involve politics and is best described as philosophical. I describe them as such for the sake of clarity, a debate over semantics is a pointless distraction and a waste of time.

I'm glad you seem to comprehend what bringing distraction points and unimportant or unrelated topics means. Now just be self aware and everything will work fine.

It is not desperation I am afraid, as with almost everything I have sources.

As Void elves being able to create more of them because they infused some animals with void? As High elves dying directly from magical withdrawal? As High elf just being a defunct name? As Void elves not damaging Blood elf lore due to inconsistencies that they now have to be carried and forced on for the sake of VE lore? As High elf and Blood elf names being interchangeable? As the only difference between High elf and Blood elf is only political? As Blood elves not using in the little slightest Fel magic to feed on? As exiling and banning researchers is on character with Blood elves?...............

Don't be ridiculous.

The Ravasaur quest is one example, as living Ravasaurs are converted into void creatures. Encounter them during the world quest and they are labelled as 'Aberrations'. Makes me wonder if Void Elves are also Aberrations, simply tagged as Humanoid for game balance just as Forsaken players are Humanoid rather than Undead.
The quest demonstrates that Void Elves are capable of turning living beings into void based creatures, precisely what was done to them.

Because it's the same to turn an animal into a void weapon without having to care about it's physical or mental state than turning and elf into a functional Void elf, because there wasn't already stated that the process they were somited is unknown and that being able to replicate it from 0 to full in any place without being even mentioned is by every means a sign that it is in fact the same process VE did got through without any given doubt.

Yes, of course. "Word of God" you said? the perfect excuse, just interpret it the way it fits you the most. (really, you don't want to bring the interview up again, your flaw will be shown as fast as a lightning).

Coupled with the Moorgard interview where he was asked where their numbers came from and he replied, we know have an in game demonstration of the technique, an in game demonstration of plentiful Void Elf numbers in several scenarios that is not consistent with the small group from the introductory scenario, and word of God confirming other Elves are seeking them out to wield the same powers.

Just say the truth, that interview didn't brought up anything meaningful about Void elves being able to do what you claim. In fact, it's worded in a way that we might see something about that in the future, not now.

Against that we have you stating that that isn't what is happening. Again, your evidence consists solely of the fact it fouls up what you want. I guess they go into that ignore pile from earlier? The truth is, you want Void Elves to be restricted to that initial group because it allows you to argue that if a small group like them is playable, a tiny group like the Alliance High Elves can also be playable and anyone mentioning the numerous times Blizzard themselves has cited population as a reason against them being available should just look at Void Elves. Void Elves being able to turn other Elves into Void Elves demolishes that argument, as Void Elves can just recruit more void curious individuals.

Also Alliance High Elves do not have enough population to be playable. While i won't go through the entire panoply of quotes to that effect provided by Blizzard over the years, I bring this up because YOU stating ' they would still have enough population' isn't going to make me accept it. You have provided no evidence that contradicts what has been said on this point. You refuse to assimilate what Blizzard has said, and push your own agenda on it. Since the information is out there, and because this is a truth you refuse to accept, you are peddling your own willful ignorance as a fact.

Are you forgetting (if i just brought it up raw and simple) that nearly half the fucking playable races almost got extinct? I hope you don't need more chewed off explanations.

Pretty much what I said above, the Pandaren example has been debated to death around here and you can't accept that neutral races failed precisely because Blizzard felt they undermined faction diversity, as explained by Ghostcrawler when he was still on the team. Remember, these points have been asked and answered. Just because the answer isn't to your liking doesn't make the answer wrong, nor does it give you the right to say it doesn't count or ignore it's existence.

And outside that there's just radio silence, not even a slight piece of info about Pandaren or neutral races being a failure, not even the Ghostcrawler post i even saw one day but i can't find on the fucking browser anymore.

'But hey, HE AR would make Thalassians actually neutral as Pandaren because i say so!' The Pandaren. Keeps. Getting. Brought. Up. Because. They. Are. The. Exact. Same. And. Didn't. Broke. Anything. And. An. Allied. Race. Of. Alliance. High. Elves. Would. Be. Even. More. Distinct. Than. Them.

Is it hard for you to understand?

You are like a flat earther to whom the truth of the Earth's rotundity is proved on a daily basis in a new way, yet with each new day you ignore what was shown to you and keep repeating the same myths.

And yes, that was another simile.

Hey, self-awareness, remember it? Apply it for a goddamn single time.

It's a longer way of saying 'Blood Elves ARE High Elves'. High Elves are therefore playable and the option is available to anyone who wants to play a High Elf right now.
Also, a lot of pro High Elfers define Alliance High Elves as the 'true High Elves' and even if you don't, that wider point remains true that that is how the pro High Elf community sees them.

Fucking nonsense since A to Z.

What someone sees something as does not matter because it will not change it, accept it, you will not make people go out and start claiming that Blood elves are the true Elf race, nor other who would say the contrary, it's just false.

And true High Elves exist. Blood Elves represent the true High Elves of the Warcraft franchise because they are the race through whom the High Elf storyline is told, because they control the vast majority of the thalassian population, because everything narratively associated with the High Elves is now controlled by the Blood Elves, and because they are an actual playable race.

Please just come out and say to everyone you are just trolling please please please.

How can you even suggest or make up as if you believe on that bullshit... goddamn....

[Varx]

I feel like the argument between you two is getting lost inside your gigantic posts of quotes and retorts.

Obelisk's logic is very simple. Are high elves and blood elves technically the same race as there are no substantial physical differences or magical alterations as compared to every single other AR? The answer is yes.

Therefore, using simple logic, blood=high, high elves are thus playable.

What you want are Alliance elves, which in turn is asking for the panda treatment, which I'm all for. Guess I'm the super minority.